Unicorns season: Prince of Persia for the A8!

[+MrFish]

Just now, rensoup said:

Is it a good time to mention that PoP background tileset ??

Haha... Actually, I had a look at what you gave me, and I found tiles to be a bit confusing to work with. They seemed not to follow the typical 45° perspective (which generally isn't too much of a big deal), and have tiling starting and ending in some odd places. So, I thought there might be some problem if I followed what I see as the more standard route for constructing them. I could be exaggerating the situation somewhat, though; so, if I'm missing something, go ahead and enlighten me, and I might try and make a late start at the appendage.

 

BTW, I think a lot of elements/tiles are already done quite well. Like, for instance, the skeleton bones on the ground, which look good -- especially compared to other versions I've seen, where the bones are way over-sized.

 

[Albert]

6 minutes ago, rensoup said:

Random question: a 64KB version would require to leave most of the game uncompressed on a cart, which would double the ROM space requirements(512KB). Is ROM cost very different depending on the size ?

Not at these sizes, not significantly.

 

 ..Al

[Wrathchild]

Yep, 1024KB is far more common a size than using only 512K.

AtariMax 8Mbit/1MByte contains two Am29f040b (or variants) chips, so 512KB each.

[rensoup]

30 minutes ago, MrFish said:

Haha... Actually, I had a look at what you gave me, and I found tiles to be a bit confusing to work with.

Well I'm not going to hold my breath ? but yeah the perspective may be a little weird which could be due to the scaling to add that 8th pixel for each 7 pixel byte from the A2... I don't recall the C64 version having that issue though. Just a matter of trying I guess...

37 minutes ago, MrFish said:

BTW, I think a lot of elements/tiles are already done quite well. Like, for instance, the skeleton bones on the ground, which look good -- especially compared to other versions I've seen, where the bones are way over-sized.

Agreed!

[rensoup]

52 minutes ago, Wrathchild said:

Yep, 1024KB is far more common a size than using only 512K.

AtariMax 8Mbit/1MByte contains two Am29f040b (or variants) chips, so 512KB each.

that's slightly confusing...

 

I guess you're saying it's more or less the same up to 512KB then for 1MB you need to have 2 chips which would cost you double, which according to the post that was linked earlier would work out to about $7 or 5.5eur (x2 for 1MB). The game would run in 512KB though so that's not an issue, just trying to understand your post

 

 

 

full cart for Cartridge Kit (PCB KIT + Sikor Soft shell): 22,50USD/17,00EUR

 

Carts are expensive!

 

From these pictures, it doesn't look like the PCBs can be shrunk very much (for a custom cart shape) ?

 

Edited November 7, 2021 by rensoup

[+MrFish]

18 minutes ago, rensoup said:

...yeah the perspective may be a little weird which could be due to the scaling to add that 8th pixel for each 7 pixel byte from the A2...

Yeah, it seems a little odd, and I definitely don't like how the pixels shift from 45° at about the midpoint. I'd definitely try and get away from that. They may have just wanted to do things a bit differently here.

  

18 minutes ago, rensoup said:

I don't recall the C64 version having that issue though. Just a matter of trying I guess...

I'll just work on the standard dungeon brick set that faces the viewer, flat -- to start. That way it won't conflict with all the isometric tiles, and will make a decent test. It's just a single tile (although it seems to be repeated twice).

 

Do you want them in the same format you sent them to me? Everything seems to be pixel-doubled (width) (maybe you just did that for easy viewing?) -- except for the gray outlines. I'll be working in anamorphic mode in Photoshop.

 

[rensoup]

13 minutes ago, MrFish said:

Do you want them in the same format you sent them to me? Everything seems to be pixel-doubled (maybe you just did that for easy viewing?) -- except for the gray outlines. I'll be working in anamorphic mode in Photoshop.

I'll just PM you the latest... 

[+MrFish]

2 minutes ago, rensoup said:

I'll just PM you the latest... 

Ah, yeah, I meant to ask that too (if what I have is the latest).

 

[+MrFish]

16 minutes ago, MrFish said:

Yeah, it seems a little odd, and I definitely don't like how the pixels shift from 45° at about the midpoint.

I said 45°, but it's actually 1/2 * 45°... which is perfect for Atari 8-bit 160 modes.

 

 

[ndary]

1 hour ago, rensoup said:

Random question: a 64KB version would require to leave most of the game uncompressed on a cart, which would double the ROM space requirements(512KB). Is ROM cost very different depending on the size ?

The difference in the cost of a 256k eprom (27c2001) to a 512k (27c4001) is not significant,

this is the Megacart test board i use to test stuff on it.., it uses on GAL chip and can take either 128k, 256k, 512k or 1024k eprom depend on the program size

[rensoup]

22 minutes ago, ndary said:

it uses on GAL chip and can take either 128k, 256k, 512k or 1024k eprom depend on the program size

so all these chips have the same physical size, no matter what capacity ?

 

it would be cool if the top of the cart could be shaped like one of these (except 6a!) ?

 

 

[Wrathchild]

2 hours ago, rensoup said:

, just trying to understand your post

Historically before the advent of the cart model emulating carts, 128KB or 1024KB were the more common models, though of course 256KB, 512KB and even 4096KB were do-able too.

 

Seeing as you can get 5 for $100 with free shipping from Steve that's not bad value for case, pcb, plcc sockets and chips plus GAL to handle the read/write.

[+-^CrossBow^-]

Okay, so I haven't really seen this mentioned before or if it was I must have skimmed past it. 

 

Explain the keyboard controls to me a bit here? Because I read the readme and I know the g,y,h,j keys control the movement. But how the heck do you do a careful step? How do you execute a running jump? Hell...how do I swipe with the sword?

 

I know that the readme states that keyboard controls are barely supported, but I've a feeling keyboard control doesn't work at all on the 130xe because it seems that my 130xe is unable to register more than a single keypress at a time. Except in cases where function keys require it like shift, control...stuff like that.

 

I know that if I press Y while standing still the print will jump straight up, but he does NOT do a running jump when pressing left/right and also pressing Y to trigger the jump. He just keeps running in the direction I have pressed. Do I have to let go of the left/right and then press up to do this? I really hope not that isn't how I'm used to it working on other platforms I've played it. Or is there some odd issue with my 130xe? I will state that I spent a good chunk of yesterday diagnosing and finding out why my Start, Select, and Option keys were hit and miss and why my right shift key wasn't working at all. I had a bad trace on that shift key which I was able to patch up and got that working and my start, select, and option keys weren't working well due to what appears to be a very worn out keyboard connector on the main board. So I shoved a few pieces of wax paper behind the ribbon cable to force it up against the pins inside more and that has all the keys working for now. That is when I found out that POP doesn't seem to work very well on keyboard in general on my 130xe as I was using that game to test it out.

 

 

[leech]

19 minutes ago, -^CrossBow^- said:

Okay, so I haven't really seen this mentioned before or if it was I must have skimmed past it. 

 

Explain the keyboard controls to me a bit here? Because I read the readme and I know the g,y,h,j keys control the movement. But how the heck do you do a careful step? How do you execute a running jump? Hell...how do I swipe with the sword?

 

I know that the readme states that keyboard controls are barely supported, but I've a feeling keyboard control doesn't work at all on the 130xe because it seems that my 130xe is unable to register more than a single keypress at a time. Except in cases where function keys require it like shift, control...stuff like that.

 

I know that if I press Y while standing still the print will jump straight up, but he does NOT do a running jump when pressing left/right and also pressing Y to trigger the jump. He just keeps running in the direction I have pressed. Do I have to let go of the left/right and then press up to do this? I really hope not that isn't how I'm used to it working on other platforms I've played it. Or is there some odd issue with my 130xe? I will state that I spent a good chunk of yesterday diagnosing and finding out why my Start, Select, and Option keys were hit and miss and why my right shift key wasn't working at all. I had a bad trace on that shift key which I was able to patch up and got that working and my start, select, and option keys weren't working well due to what appears to be a very worn out keyboard connector on the main board. So I shoved a few pieces of wax paper behind the ribbon cable to force it up against the pins inside more and that has all the keys working for now. That is when I found out that POP doesn't seem to work very well on keyboard in general on my 130xe as I was using that game to test it out.

 

 

Hmm, do thee Atari computers in general detect more than one key at a time?  I know some PC keyboards barely do.  I remember testing on a keyboard decades ago, and after 3 or 4 keys, it would not detect another you were holding down. 

Always nice when you are able to get a keyboard working.

[+-^CrossBow^-]

19 minutes ago, leech said:

Hmm, do thee Atari computers in general detect more than one key at a time?  I know some PC keyboards barely do.  I remember testing on a keyboard decades ago, and after 3 or 4 keys, it would not detect another you were holding down. 

Always nice when you are able to get a keyboard working.

The DOS version of POP did allow for multiple keyboard presses quite easily. That is how I played the game originally back in the day. It was nice to use the keyboard arrow keys to move with space bar acting as the jump, careful step combo. I tested this yesterday after the issues I was having on my 130xe trying to play it via keyboard by firing up the DOS version again to confirm it wasn't rose colored glasses.

 

[_The Doctor__]

some x86 machines keyboards could and some couldn't bitd, so many game had qwe,asd,zxc as the keys so you could do diagonals... POP wouldn't need zxc... no need for diagonal down and s could be crouch / down, w / up, q /diagonal jump left, e / diagonal jumo right... etc... shift or control keys could be used as well so what's all the hub bub? bub?

[leech]

21 minutes ago, -^CrossBow^- said:

The DOS version of POP did allow for multiple keyboard presses quite easily. That is how I played the game originally back in the day. It was nice to use the keyboard arrow keys to move with space bar acting as the jump, careful step combo. I tested this yesterday after the issues I was having on my 130xe trying to play it via keyboard by firing up the DOS version again to confirm it wasn't rose colored glasses.

 

Confirmed on my 130xe that you can't use multiple keys, so running and jumping won't work.  Not even sure how you'd jump anywhere but up with that set up.  Am I wrong in thinking you're supposed to be able to just tap the joystick and move a little?  Only way I was able to move in increments is diagonal down, so I crouch and move.  I'm probably just terrible at the game, as I always have been.

 

On the upside, I just tested it with VBXE (looks and runs amazingly!) also ran it with WarpXE setting on the Rapidus.  It didn't like that at all!  But had no issues in Sweet16 mode.  So works there too, and is very smooth fast even without that! 

[Mr Robot]

Well FWIW here's a stab at XL and XEGS boxart

 

[+-^CrossBow^-]

13 minutes ago, leech said:

Confirmed on my 130xe that you can't use multiple keys, so running and jumping won't work.  Not even sure how you'd jump anywhere but up with that set up.  Am I wrong in thinking you're supposed to be able to just tap the joystick and move a little?  Only way I was able to move in increments is diagonal down, so I crouch and move.  I'm probably just terrible at the game, as I always have been.

 

On the upside, I just tested it with VBXE (looks and runs amazingly!) also ran it with WarpXE setting on the Rapidus.  It didn't like that at all!  But had no issues in Sweet16 mode.  So works there too, and is very smooth fast even without that! 

I was playing with a controller and that does work, but I've always felt I could play the game better with keyboard controls to get that perfect timing down. Someone who played it in emulation stated they were playing with keyboard controls and were able to run in a direction and press up while still holding left or right and do a running jump pressing up just before they needed to jump. That is how it always played on my DOS setups back in the day so yeah... I'm not sure how this is even playable with a keyboard if you can't do a running jump or even careful steps properly? There are jumps in the game that can only be done with running jumps so... glad to see I'm not the only one who is seeing this.

 

[+MrFish]

I got this error when starting my first game today, using the Atarimax cart. It went away after moving beyond the first screen.

 

My configuration is the same as before.

Altirra v3.90 (release)

600XL/800XL

OS Rev. 2

 

The only option I used for the game was "No" flickering fonts.

I wasn't able to repeat the error yet. So, I'm not sure if it had anything to do with when I started the game (what part of the startup sequence). I know I didn't watch all of the intro.

 

I forgot to get a savestate file too.

 

 

[leech]

3 minutes ago, -^CrossBow^- said:

I was playing with a controller and that does work, but I've always felt I could play the game better with keyboard controls to get that perfect timing down. Someone who played it in emulation stated they were playing with keyboard controls and were able to run in a direction and press up while still holding left or right and do a running jump pressing up just before they needed to jump. That is how it always played on my DOS setups back in the day so yeah... I'm not sure how this is even playable with a keyboard if you can't do a running jump or even careful steps properly? There are jumps in the game that can only be done with running jumps so... glad to see I'm not the only one who is seeing this.

 

Hmm, I played it in the Atari800 emulator on Linux, and it acted as real hardware (couldn't run and jump).  Agreed on being able to play it better with the keyboard.  I always though it would work well with an analog stick (which is why I jokingly suggested a 5200 port, but seeing as how this requires 128kb of RAM, I don't see the 16kb 5200 pulling it off without it being an extra tricky cart.)

[rensoup]

1 hour ago, -^CrossBow^- said:

Explain the keyboard controls to me a bit here? Because I read the readme and I know the g,y,h,j keys control the movement. But how the heck do you do a careful step? How do you execute a running jump? Hell...how do I swipe with the sword?

I think I forgot "return", probably does the sword strike ? 

 

But really, forget keyboard control, it's not fully supported, the only way to do slow steps is to crouch.

 

16 minutes ago, -^CrossBow^- said:

I was playing with a controller and that does work, but I've always felt I could play the game better with keyboard controls to get that perfect timing down. Someone who played it in emulation stated they were playing with keyboard controls and were able to run in a direction and press up while still holding left or right and do a running jump pressing up just before they needed to jump. That is how it always played on my DOS setups back in the day so yeah... I'm not sure how this is even playable with a keyboard if you can't do a running jump or even careful steps properly? There are jumps in the game that can only be done with running jumps so... glad to see I'm not the only one who is seeing this.

The key (indeed!) is "emulation": it is a joystick emulation with the PC keyboard, the keyboard keys are sent to the emulator as joystick input that's why it works... for a real Atari that would mean connecting a real keyboard to the joystick port...

[+-^CrossBow^-]

6 minutes ago, leech said:

Hmm, I played it in the Atari800 emulator on Linux, and it acted as real hardware (couldn't run and jump).  Agreed on being able to play it better with the keyboard.  I always though it would work well with an analog stick (which is why I jokingly suggested a 5200 port, but seeing as how this requires 128kb of RAM, I don't see the 16kb 5200 pulling it off without it being an extra tricky cart.)

The one person I spoke with that was able to use multiple key presses at once in emulation was using Altirra I believe but I would have to ask them to make sure. They were originally playing on joystick but having a heck of a time getting those diagonals right for the running jumps (As I often have issues with), and it was suggested to use a keyboard. Once they did that they were able to progress a lot easier that way. So they were surprised when I asked them how they were doing it since it doesn't seem to work that way on actual hardware?

 

[rensoup]

44 minutes ago, _The Doctor__ said:

some x86 machines keyboards could and some couldn't bitd, so many game had qwe,asd,zxc as the keys so you could do diagonals... POP wouldn't need zxc... no need for diagonal down and s could be crouch / down, w / up, q /diagonal jump left, e / diagonal jumo right... etc... shift or control keys could be used as well so what's all the hub bub? bub?

would be nice but requires space for the code... there' ll always be something more important to add than this

[leech]

1 minute ago, -^CrossBow^- said:

The one person I spoke with that was able to use multiple key presses at once in emulation was using Altirra I believe but I would have to ask them to make sure. They were originally playing on joystick but having a heck of a time getting those diagonals right for the running jumps (As I often have issues with), and it was suggested to use a keyboard. Once they did that they were able to progress a lot easier that way. So they were surprised when I asked them how they were doing it since it doesn't seem to work that way on actual hardware?

 

I use my trusty Epyx 500xj, does great diagonals   Waiting for my Super Combo stick to show up, hoping that's equally as good!