Faicuai Posted June 21, 2021 Share Posted June 21, 2021 1 hour ago, drpeter said: What they're doing is saying 'hands off ALL our intellectual property'. Well, per Jordan M. himself, who appears as the copyrights holder: "(...) We extracted and posted the 6502 code because it was a piece of computer history that could be of interest to others, and because if we hadn't, it might have been lost for all time. We did this for fun, not profit. As the author and copyright holder of this source code, I personally have no problem with anyone studying it, modifying it, attempting to run it, etc." That rules out territorial copyright-disputes, and all that imaginary stuff, as he owns it (unless the GitHub is outdated). So, at this point, can't see any problem, as long as this port is handled as BBC's port was. That's about it. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drpeter Posted June 21, 2021 Share Posted June 21, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, Faicuai said: as he owns it He asserts his ownership of copyright solely to the Apple II source code and permission for study, modification and running of that code for personal use. As I said before, and as he also says in the next sentence, that isn't necessarily relevant to rights Ubisoft holds pertaining to the larger POP franchise, which may well include the right to control publication of all derivative works- 'Ubisoft alone has the right to make and distribute Prince of Persia games' Simple and courteous way to end all uncertainty is simply to ask permission of JM to publish, or Ubisoft if JM confirms they hold the rights to publication of derivative works. Or just hope it goes under the radar. Edited June 21, 2021 by drpeter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rensoup Posted June 21, 2021 Author Share Posted June 21, 2021 16 hours ago, Mazzspeed said: That's so odd.. I reformat my partition back to FAT32 and the SIC .CAR image works again. This is weird. Well that's the final word on this then... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rensoup Posted June 21, 2021 Author Share Posted June 21, 2021 14 hours ago, patjomki said: Guess I start hating emulators then. ?? Imagine that, if'd developed it on a real Atari without any kind of debug feature ? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rensoup Posted June 21, 2021 Author Share Posted June 21, 2021 8 hours ago, xxl said: actually, it seems to me that you don't need these variables. xBIOS_OPEN_FILE is a combination of the xBIOS_FIND_ENTRY and xBIOS_READ_SECTOR functions. So if you are indexing you only need xBIOS_FIND_ENTRY and you don't need to read the first sector of the file - even faster. in the A and Y registers you have parameters that must be specified during xBIOS_READ_SECTOR for this file. interesting concept so to open the file xBIOS_FIND_ENTRY save xDAUX1, xDAUX2 to read the file restore xDAUX1, xDAUX2 xBIOS_READ_FILE right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rensoup Posted June 21, 2021 Author Share Posted June 21, 2021 4 hours ago, drpeter said: Simple and courteous way to end all uncertainty is simply to ask permission of JM to publish, or Ubisoft if JM confirms they hold the rights to publication of derivative works. Amazing ? It took you a page to get to that conclusion while I'd posted the very same thing in my initial post ? 20 hours ago, rensoup said: Perhaps when the project is done, we could have a poll and if the response is positive, ask him with a link to the poll included... This ranks high in the useless topic list addressed in this thread together with the turban and the palace picture... I don't need that bullshit ? 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Level42 Posted June 21, 2021 Share Posted June 21, 2021 10 hours ago, Mazzspeed said: The C64 port of SMB was never for profit as far as I'm aware. Didn't stop Nintendo from hunting it down quick smart. Strangely enough, Nintendo never gave a thing about their arcade IP. Artwork repro’s are abundant and games have been heavily modified, almost creating new games with the usual heroes. They were aware of it all and never took any action, in fact, NOA helped with the artwork for the Sky Skipper cabinet.... but I think we might be losing focus. I must say I’m quite hooked to PoP. I saw it BITD but never actually played it.... love it ! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drpeter Posted June 22, 2021 Share Posted June 22, 2021 1 hour ago, rensoup said: Amazing ? It took you a page to get to that conclusion while I'd posted the very same thing in my initial post ? This ranks high in the useless topic list addressed in this thread together with the turban and the palace picture... I don't need that bullshit ? No, FWIW you were very clearly referring to asking (probably the wrong person) for permission specifically to issue a cartridge, but with no intention of seeking permission for publishing freely downloadable files. If the latter was your intention, you'd perhaps have done so already before investing so much time, skill and effort in bringing the project to this stage and publishing any number of public downloads along the way. Quote if a cart version should happen, it would have to go through him first... Anyway, good luck with the project- I sincerely hope that in practice there will be no pointless hitches thrown in its path. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rensoup Posted June 22, 2021 Author Share Posted June 22, 2021 58 minutes ago, drpeter said: No, FWIW you were very clearly referring to asking (probably the wrong person) for permission specifically to issue a cartridge ? The 2 sentences below are exactly the same 6 hours ago, drpeter said: Simple and courteous way to end all uncertainty is simply to ask permission of JM to publish == Quote if a cart version should happen, it would have to go through him first... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tjlazer Posted June 22, 2021 Share Posted June 22, 2021 Ok wrote the DD ATR to a disk and that also doesn’t run on my 1200XL 256 Rambo. (Originally tried SS disks on a Happy 1050). But on another 1050 with USD the SD disks run but not the DD. DD disk runs fine on my 130XE and XF551. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_The Doctor__ Posted June 22, 2021 Share Posted June 22, 2021 (edited) 29 minutes ago, tjlazer said: Ok wrote the DD ATR to a disk and that also doesn’t run on my 1200XL 256 Rambo. But on another 1050 with USD the SD disks run but not the DD. DD disk runs fine on my 130XE and XF551. it might be helpful to edit this to show the drive and computer combinations... I can't tell what failed with what other than it worked on a 130XE and XF551 for further sleuthing... this could come down to a timing/slew issue, a buffer issue with the USDoubler or possible cable issue... remember Happy drives and USDoublers have differing buffering/skew/slew schemes and timings... if it fails in happy mode, try making it unhappy... if it fails in USDoubler try making it not Ultra/Skew or the opposite and make it it ultraskew... It's a time honored tradition in the Atari world... Edited June 22, 2021 by _The Doctor__ 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tjlazer Posted June 22, 2021 Share Posted June 22, 2021 Ok thanks. Edit! Just tried the bug fixed and the DD disk works on my 1200 with USD 1050! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drpeter Posted June 22, 2021 Share Posted June 22, 2021 (edited) 12 hours ago, rensoup said: The 2 sentences below are exactly the same 19 hours ago, drpeter said: Simple and courteous way to end all uncertainty is simply to ask permission of JM to publish == Quote if a cart version should happen, it would have to go through him first... No, not quite. 19 hours ago, drpeter said: Simple and courteous way to end all uncertainty is simply to ask permission of JM to publish == Quote if any version should happen, it would have to go through him first... You apparently think you would need permission to issue a physical cartridge version of POP. However, you apparently don't think you need permission to put a .atr/.car version on AtariAge for download. You may well have a reason for thinking this, but I remain unsure what the reason is. The copyright issue is similar in either case. Technically, you need permission from the copyright holder (in this case, probably Ubisoft). Many apparently believe that copyright does not apply if money and/or physical goods are not changing hands and/or if profit is not being made. That is simply incorrect. It may be true that the copyright holder will less likely be provoked into defending their copyright if any or all of these things apply. Many more believe that copyright can be ignored if no obvious harm is being done to the copyright holder, which is more valid as a moral standpoint than a legal one. In any case, courtesy might dictate that it's a decision the copyright holder could be asked to make. That said, many would perhaps be more inclined to extend that courtesy to an individual than a large company, maybe in part because an individual is thought more likely to be generous in their response. Should you care about infringing copyright? That's your decision. Many on this forum would say 'No- wait for JM/Ubisoft to find out about it and complain, if they want to- by which time it'll be too late anyway'. I certainly wouldn't tell you what to do. I only raise it at all because you yourself first mentioned the issue of copyright. Anyway, good luck to you and this fantastic project- whatever you decide. Edited June 22, 2021 by drpeter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STE'86 Posted June 22, 2021 Share Posted June 22, 2021 how different is doing a cart on atari to doing easyflash? can u not "DIY"? having walked the IP tightrope with pretty much every project i have done on the c64 in 10 years i can say that I find issuing a sold traceable product a very dicey prospect for the amount on revenue u could expect to earn. the IP is vague, could be Jordan, could be Ubi, possibly even Disney have a stake as they did the film. if you ask, u appear a a blip on the radar and they will refuse you. they will always refuse you because thats always the first reaction of a big company to an IP request and u won't be offering financial incentive so they won't be arsed to even discuss it with their legal people. THEN if you release for free you will still appear on their radar because u put yourself there and so they will probably c&d you anyway. so the motto is "do not ask" release as a fait accompli. and guys can i just say advertising the fact you are doing this for 2 years is hardly going to help u go "under the radar" you know how much warning the c64 scene got? 2 weeks. prior to that only a handful of people knew it existed. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MEtalGuy66 Posted June 22, 2021 Share Posted June 22, 2021 Pfft.. F*** Jordan Mechner's IP rights.. DOUBLE F*** Ubisoft, and TRIPLE f*** Disney.. heh.. Bunch of social justice virtue signalling box-office bait releasing, franchise ruining terds (Star Wars much?).. We all pirated the apple II version long before the source was released.. As far as I'm concerned, moving it to the ATARI (and thereby spreading it around even more) is just a further extension of that piracy. And that's a damn good thing.. For everyone.. Including the above mentioned "IP owners"... Whether they are smart enough to realize it or not.. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patjomki Posted June 22, 2021 Share Posted June 22, 2021 18 hours ago, rensoup said: Imagine that, if'd developed it on a real Atari without any kind of debug feature ? Mac/65 + Bug/65,DDT ? Just kidding... Of course debugging with wudsn and altirra is waaaay easier and more comfortable but developing ON emulator doesn't prevent you from developing FOR the real thing. Superfly XL lite for example although programmed with wudsn and altirra runs only smooth on real hardware (in higher levels). I could have programmed a workaround for emulators but that would have led to a not so smooth version on real hardware. But as I already stated regarding flickering and intro: "Your game, your choice." ??? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drpeter Posted June 22, 2021 Share Posted June 22, 2021 3 hours ago, MEtalGuy66 said: Pfft.. F*** Jordan Mechner's IP rights.. DOUBLE F*** Ubisoft, and TRIPLE f*** Disney.. heh.. Bunch of social justice virtue signalling box-office bait releasing, franchise ruining terds (Star Wars much?).. We all pirated the apple II version long before the source was released.. As far as I'm concerned, moving it to the ATARI (and thereby spreading it around even more) is just a further extension of that piracy. And that's a damn good thing.. For everyone.. Including the above mentioned "IP owners"... Whether they are smart enough to realize it or not.. Property is theft! Solidarity, brothers and sisters of the revolution! ✊ ??? 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faicuai Posted June 22, 2021 Share Posted June 22, 2021 45 minutes ago, drpeter said: Property is theft! Solidarity, brothers and sisters of the revolution! ✊ ??? ?? Pathetic, indeed... And then we complain about IP / commercial rights being enforced... Of course, who would not do so, especially after reading the baboonish non-sense posted above.... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DrVenkman Posted June 22, 2021 Share Posted June 22, 2021 Seize the means of … cartridge production? 2 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faicuai Posted June 22, 2021 Share Posted June 22, 2021 4 hours ago, MEtalGuy66 said: We all pirated the apple II version long before the source was released There is no "we all". There is you and your own admission of guilt, in a public venue. Just don't arbitrarily bring everyone here into your upside-down world (especially when there is a good bunch of folks here than could never own Apple products, back then). Take some time and solitude to reflect a bit upon what you just wrote... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rensoup Posted June 22, 2021 Author Share Posted June 22, 2021 15 hours ago, tjlazer said: Ok thanks. Edit! Just tried the bug fixed and the DD disk works on my 1200 with USD 1050! I thought the 1050 only supported ED (128KB) and not DD (180KB) ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Mr Robot Posted June 22, 2021 Share Posted June 22, 2021 4 minutes ago, rensoup said: I thought the 1050 only supported ED (128KB) and not DD (180KB) ? With USD.. US Doubler 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilheim Posted June 22, 2021 Share Posted June 22, 2021 3 minutes ago, rensoup said: I thought the 1050 only supported ED (128KB) and not DD (180KB) ? By default, it supports up to 130 kbytes format (ED). But there are upgrades like Us-Doubler (USD 1050) that make it able to read double density. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rensoup Posted June 22, 2021 Author Share Posted June 22, 2021 (edited) 8 hours ago, drpeter said: You apparently think you would need permission to issue a physical cartridge version of POP. However, you apparently don't think you need permission to put a .atr/.car version on AtariAge for download. You may well have a reason for thinking this, but I remain unsure what the reason is. The copyright issue is similar in either case. Technically, you need permission from the copyright holder (in this case, probably Ubisoft). Because JM congratuled Mr Sid's on his blog after the C64 version was released, and that was even before he released the source code. The C64 version was totally reverse engineered from the A2, which didn't bother JM at all. Your post seemed to imply that there was going to be monetary theft... Edited June 22, 2021 by rensoup 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rensoup Posted June 22, 2021 Author Share Posted June 22, 2021 5 hours ago, MEtalGuy66 said: We all pirated the apple II version long before the source was released.. As far as I'm concerned, moving it to the ATARI (and thereby spreading it around even more) is just a further extension of that piracy. And that's a damn good thing.. For everyone.. Including the above mentioned "IP owners"... Whether they are smart enough to realize it or not.. Sure we were all kids once, no need to insult the man who created this masterpiece though... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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