Computers in grade school/high school?

[Goochman]

'79 Elementary School was lucky to have 2 PET computers.  One teacher was a computer geek at the time.

 

Nothing in Middle School

 

'83 in High School they had Apple II's.  Went as far as trying to setup class registration with an AppleTalk network of Apple II's in 1986 which as you can imagine was a disaster.

[jhd]

 

My elementary/junior high school received a single Model III (I think that it was a donation) in about 1980 or '81. At least one classmate learned BASIC and coded some games on it. There were some sporadic attempts to teach computer classes, but this was hampered by the lack of a qualified teacher -- the school relied very heavily on parent-volunteers to teach everything from French to Physical Education and this necessarily limited what courses were offered. I enrolled in computer class in about 1984, but I soon had to drop it when I learned that Typing was a co-requisite. ☹️

 

In High School, we had a lab of Color Computers, networked to a central disk and printer. Some of these were later upgraded to the Coco 3 with dedicated monitors, and the older systems cascaded down to the elementary classrooms. I took Intro to Computers in Grade 10 and Computer Science (BASIC programming with a strong focus on math problems) in Grade 12.

 

After graduating, I was hired by the school to do tech support for the computer lab on a casual, part-time basis. I had this job for about two years. 

 

 

 

[Keatah]

3 hours ago, zzip said:

In high school it was all Apple II's in the labs, where they taught BASIC and Pascal courses.   Some lucky classrooms also had a single Apple II in them.   What was funny is those classroom Apple IIs went unused most of the time.  And when they were used,  it was for some non-education purpose, like the annual Valentine's Day matchmaking event, or sorting a mailing list.

IIRC our HS lab was mixed, Apple II, TRS-80, and IBM or C= PET.

 

The Valentines thing must have been all over because we had to make a BASIC program which would draw a heart via a series HTAB, VTAB, and PRINT statements. An early e-card if you will. The mid-term in Advanced Data Processing.

 

3 hours ago, zzip said:

I remember how destructive high school kids could be.   The school probably wanted to make sure the expensive equipment wasn't damaged or destroyed so they were filtering out the serious students. 

 But I was serious! I even had my own Apple II at home which I was already modding by inserting expansion cards and stuff.

[zzip]

1 minute ago, Keatah said:

The Valentines thing must have been all over because we had to make a BASIC program which would draw a heart via a series HTAB, VTAB, and PRINT statements. An early e-card if you will. The mid-term in Advanced Data Processing.

This was actual attempt at matchmaking.  They sent a survey around to everyone in the school about their preferences/dating preferences.   Then on Valentine's day, if you paid $1 (for charity), they would print out a list of your 10 best matches out of the student body.   Of course it was for fun.   I'm not sure if any couples actually hooked up that way.

 

6 minutes ago, Keatah said:

But I was serious! I even had my own Apple II at home which I was already modding by inserting expansion cards and stuff.

Well I got into the Apple lab by taking the Pascal course.    :)    But I know the feeling.   At some point the school got a IIgs, which I wanted to check out, but couldn't because I wasn't enrolled in the right class (drafting, I think?)  

[Keatah]

1 hour ago, jhd said:

I enrolled in computer class in about 1984, but I soon had to drop it when I learned that Typing was a co-requisite. ☹️

True enough. I think the computer classes of that era were constructed for Data Entry Clerks or Science/Engineering geeks from like the space program. The style that was popular in the 1960's and very early 1970's. IDK. But sure seemed like it.

 

Quote

After graduating, I was hired by the school to do tech support for the computer lab on a casual, part-time basis. I had this job for about two years.

After I had tried for 3 years to get into the lab, I did via the Data Processing course. Felt like an appeasement. I had done a nice Assembly routine that mapped the text screen and scrolled it off to the side at hi-speed. A feature of some HGR crackscreens of the day.

 

After that I was asked to be "on call" for minor fixes and issues in the lab. By that time I didn't care anymore. I just wanted to go home and do WaRez and babysit the BBS. Fuck'n Data Processing class my ass!

 

I became disenfranchised with anything "academics" & "computers" for a long time. It would take some years before I warmed up to a lab computer again. Made sure I let the school and district know about it.

 

In college I was flabbergasted that they had what seemed like a full range of 8086-80486 PCs in the tech labs. Only requisite being that you were enrolled in some class, any class.

 

In one course we had to build control circuits. Make a program (in x86 assembly) that'd flash lights or power-up motors or print messages on 16-segment LED displays. We had to use the shitbox 8086 rigs. Naturally. And they had an ISA card that gave access to lines on the bus. We were lectured for 2 hours on how we shouldn't be doing no funny stuff by connecting to AC mains.

 

After that we weren't treated like babies anymore. Finally.

Edited December 7, 2020 by Keatah

[Keatah]

34 minutes ago, zzip said:

This was actual attempt at matchmaking.  They sent a survey around to everyone in the school about their preferences/dating preferences.   Then on Valentine's day, if you paid $1 (for charity), they would print out a list of your 10 best matches out of the student body.   Of course it was for fun.   I'm not sure if any couples actually hooked up that way.

Oh that was part of it too. And there was an extra credit thing where you could write the matchmaking software or do the (you guessed it) data entry. IIRC everyone's programs were loads of IF-THEN and GOTO statements. And string arrays.

 

Quote

Well I got into the Apple lab by taking the Pascal course.    But I know the feeling.   At some point the school got a IIgs, which I wanted to check out, but couldn't because I wasn't enrolled in the right class (drafting, I think?)  

That's pretty advanced for a school to have a complete system available for checkout. I wonder how well they stood up to handling? But I suspect folks were more careful when moving micros bitd.

 

Our HS only did BASIC back then. But it was programming nonetheless. Their excuse for only letting math-whizzes into the lab the first 3 years was that you had to think logically. And math proved that you could.

 

I was into the creative side of what could actually be accomplished with a system. And if writing and modding BBS software and its user log maintenance & statistics companion program didn't qualify me (and others) I don't know what would have.

 

I'm done.

Edited December 7, 2020 by Keatah

[zzip]

23 minutes ago, Keatah said:

IIRC everyone's programs were loads of IF-THEN and GOTO statements. And string arrays.

Well yeah, that's how you did it in the 80s ?   The guy using GOSUB was the outcast among outcasts  ?

I remember the "War on GOTO" erupting in the late 80s with the "Structured Programming" mantra.   Thing was that BASIC wasn't well-suited for Structured Programming, and even the structured BASICs that emerged in the late 80s like GFA Basic fell short of good structure.  

 

I guess that was the point of pushing Pascal in schools,  it forced you into structured programming and out of the BASIC way of thinking that many of us hobbyists picked up.

[MrMaddog]

2 hours ago, zzip said:

Well yeah, that's how you did it in the 80s ?   The guy using GOSUB was the outcast among outcasts  ?

I remember the "War on GOTO" erupting in the late 80s with the "Structured Programming" mantra.   Thing was that BASIC wasn't well-suited for Structured Programming, and even the structured BASICs that emerged in the late 80s like GFA Basic fell short of good structure.  

 

I guess that was the point of pushing Pascal in schools,  it forced you into structured programming and out of the BASIC way of thinking that many of us hobbyists picked up.

Well that's funny cause in my freshman course, I took Structured Programing in Microsoft BASIC.  I already knew how to write BASIC programs since I was eight but that was the first time I learned how to pre-plan my programs by splitting them into routines first.  We still had to use line numbers but each routine was in 1000 increments.

 

Certaintly helped me with my own STOS Basic projects though sometimes I had to bend certain rules (ie. multiple commands in one statement) where it was neccessary.  Hadn't made me a Pascal convert but at least I didn't had to deal with spaghetti code I'd seen in type-in listings...

 

 

[zzip]

15 hours ago, MrMaddog said:

Well that's funny cause in my freshman course, I took Structured Programing in Microsoft BASIC.  I already knew how to write BASIC programs since I was eight but that was the first time I learned how to pre-plan my programs by splitting them into routines first.  We still had to use line numbers but each routine was in 1000 increments.

 

Certaintly helped me with my own STOS Basic projects though sometimes I had to bend certain rules (ie. multiple commands in one statement) where it was neccessary.  Hadn't made me a Pascal convert but at least I didn't had to deal with spaghetti code I'd seen in type-in listings...

Yeah BASIC had gosubs and sometimes function definitions which helped with structure,  but it was weak compared to other languages.   Typically you couldn't pass parameters with a gosub.   There were typically no local variables,  etc.    Eventually a new breed of Basic emerged that did away with line numbers, added procedures and made it more in line with the other structured languages.

 

When I started with GFA, it forced me to think in a structured way.   I think you could still define labels and do "goto label",  but I don't think I used that, I was defining procedures instead.   I was certainly guilty of writing spaghetti code prior to that.

 

[SlithyMatt]

Elementary School only had Apple IIs - my first time touching a computer was a II (maybe a II+?) in second grade (1982-83). In third grade learned to program in Logo, and the school kept investing in Apple, eventually getting a IIc in every classroom by 85-86.

 

Christmas 86 I got my first computer: a 64kB CoCo 2, complete with CCR-82 tape deck, DMP-130 dot matrix printer, and Color ScripsIt cartridge. It was my first exposure to BASIC, and I taught myself to program with the manuals and example listing provided with the system. Eventually acquired a floppy drive and a bunch of games, and even OS-9 that was a mystifying, strange thing that my father somehow agreed to buy for me.

 

Starting Middle School the next year, the computer lab there had TRS-80 IIIs with the integrated monochrome monitors and floppy drives, which is where I first encountered BASIC in school, and by then I was a "seasoned expert". We also played Oregon Trail on those, never on Apple II, like most folks in the US apparently did.

 

By high school, I got my first PC clone at home (a Tandy 1000 HX, because where else would you get a computer than Radio Shack?) and at school they had Apple IIgs's (connected to a handful of Macs) and IBM PS/2s, but no more TRS-80s to be found. I gave away my CoCo 2, and haven't touched any TRS-80 since outside of emulation.

[MrMaddog]

7 hours ago, zzip said:

Yeah BASIC had gosubs and sometimes function definitions which helped with structure,  but it was weak compared to other languages.   Typically you couldn't pass parameters with a gosub.   There were typically no local variables,  etc.    Eventually a new breed of Basic emerged that did away with line numbers, added procedures and made it more in line with the other structured languages.

 

When I started with GFA, it forced me to think in a structured way.   I think you could still define labels and do "goto label",  but I don't think I used that, I was defining procedures instead.   I was certainly guilty of writing spaghetti code prior to that.

 

Ideally I would have liked to have used procedurial BASIC like GFA and QBASIC, but I just never had access to any of that...only Microsoft BASIC on the college VAX's where I learned the course.  So while not great for doing structured programming, we had to make due with what we got.  (BTW, the computer labs were half VAX terminals and half 386 PC's with writing labs using Macs)

 

Anyway in my elementary school days, the rural area where I grew up in had Radio Shack Color Computers that were used for learning Logo.  That happened to be the computer I had as a kid and I quickly learned that the guy who taught the class didn't like it when you knew "more" about how computers work than everyone else.

 

In 7th grade they had Apple II's but only taught them to only those who had great math grades, so that's why I associated Apple computers being only for the elite while Atari computers were more democratic...

 

And finally the high school I transfered to used black & white Macs, they were great to use with the GUI and all but at the same time I felt disapppointed there was no way to program them except for using HyperCard's scripting language.

 

 

[Omega-TI]

My High School electronics class had a Heathkit H8, but all I ever got to do with it was look at it.  At the time it had a "massive" (not) 4K of RAM!

 

[Keatah]

That's all we ever got to do with computer in school is look at them. Why bother?

 

[+frankodragon]

In elementary and junior high, there were Apple IIe's.  You had to scramble if you wanted a color monitor otherwise you'll have to use a monochrome.  I believe they also had some Apple II clones in junior high.  Speaking of which, we had to ground ourselves on a doorjamb from static before entering a computer lab in the library.    In high school, there were still Apple IIe's but they also had Macintosh Classics.

[MrMaddog]

12 hours ago, Keatah said:

That's all we ever got to do with computer in school is look at them. Why bother?

 

The only time where I did play around with non Mac Apples was the IIGS at the public library that was across the street from my high school.  I go there almost everyday and play Robot Odyssey where I learned about logic gates and electronic conponets.  But once I took high school courses with the Macs I lost interest and only went to the library for reading magazines like Rolling Stone.  Plus I still had an Atari 8-bit waiting at home so I got lots of computer time anyway.

 

[zzip]

16 hours ago, Keatah said:

That's all we ever got to do with computer in school is look at them. Why bother?

 

Probably the administrators decided they needed computers in the school because everyone else was doing it.   Oh and those pesky sales guys from Commodore, Radio Shack and Apple kept ringing their phone off the hook.

 

But most teachers didn't know what to do with them,  and many were afraid of them,  so they sat idle. 

[7800Knight]

9 hours ago, zzip said:

Probably the administrators decided they needed computers in the school because everyone else was doing it.   Oh and those pesky sales guys from Commodore, Radio Shack and Apple kept ringing their phone off the hook.

 

But most teachers didn't know what to do with them,  and many were afraid of them,  so they sat idle. 

I don't think it was until the end of the 1990s (1998-1999) that Internet access became more widespread in primary and secondary schools.  By then, I was in college.

 

In the 1980s and 1990s, school computers were only used for two things - typing, be it learning to type or doing schoolwork; and edutainment titles where we learned things.  I remember playing games like the Oregon Trail, Grammar Gremlins and Dragon's Keep.

[R.Cade]

I went to school in NE Ohio (Perry, Geneva).

 

Perry:

In 1982/83 the math teacher had a TRS-80 Model III. It was on a cart, and he would run programs in class and show the result. You could also play with it if you showed an interest. I don't remember playing with it, personally, or maybe I tried and could not figure it out.

 

In 83/84 the History/Geography teacher ran a lab of 20 or 30 C64's, networked together with a IEC sharing system. I ended up being the "computer guy" early (7th Grade) and going to set up the class and lessons for him instead of being in the actual Geography class. I got an "A" but I have no idea where anything is in the world, don't know the capitals of any states or countries, nothing at all. However, I can debug the heck out of BASIC programs from Compute!. Which one ended up being more valuable?

 

Geneva:

In 84/85/86 the computer lab in Geneva was all TI99/4a's. Most students used tapes, but there were a couple of systems with PEBs you could use for special projects. The only thing I remember doing for a project was a version of the school mascot (Eagle) in bitmap graphics that would "wink" at you when you pressed a key, and a Pac-Man or Dig-Dug style game.

 

I remember the wood shop teacher had a PET. He would play with it the whole time we were in class. No idea what he was doing... We couldn't see it.

 

 

 

Edited December 10, 2020 by R.Cade

[BydoEmpire]

On 12/7/2020 at 2:46 PM, Keatah said:

IIRC everyone's programs were loads of IF-THEN and GOTO statements. And string arrays.

 

Haha, ain't that the truth!?!?  Mine certainly were, at least in the beginning.

[bluejay]

My story is obviously not that interesting... All my old school had was dozens of generic black Dell windows PCs. My new school has hundreds of HP laptops and Chromebooks and a few Macs here and there.

[DavidD]

I remember the school havings PETs... then Apple IIs.

 

Nothing but Apple II computers for years.

[Jinroh]

Apple IIgs were at my School's Lab.

 

Then later in the mid-90s when they build the new High School they got a grant for Gateways, how boring.

 

Mostly Apple IIgs elsewhere, but I think I remember maybe an Atari or C64 in some random rooms.

[Keatah]

8 hours ago, R.Cade said:

In 83/84 the History/Geography teacher ran a lab of 20 or 30 C64's, networked together with a IEC sharing system. I ended up being the "computer guy" early (7th Grade) and going to set up the class and lessons for him instead of being in the actual Geography class. I got an "A" but I have no idea where anything is in the world, don't know the capitals of any states or countries, nothing at all. However, I can debug the heck out of BASIC programs from Compute!. Which one ended up being more valuable?

Certainly the programming. Back then when I flunked stupid stuff 'cause I didn't care I just cited that I could look it up. That's what encyclopedias are for. That's what libraries are for. Today I state that's what the internet is for.

 

8 hours ago, R.Cade said:

I remember the wood shop teacher had a PET. He would play with it the whole time we were in class. No idea what he was doing... We couldn't see it.

Maybe it was for the better.

 

7 hours ago, bluejay said:

My story is obviously not that interesting... All my old school had was dozens of generic black Dell windows PCs. My new school has hundreds of HP laptops and Chromebooks and a few Macs here and there.

Certainly not a bad thing.

 

4 hours ago, DavidD said:

Nothing but Apple II computers for years.

Tis' not a bad thing.

 

3 hours ago, Jinroh said:

Then later in the mid-90s when they build the new High School they got a grant for Gateways, how boring

I'm sure it was a sight to behold.

[zzip]

7 hours ago, Jinroh said:

Then later in the mid-90s when they build the new High School they got a grant for Gateways, how boring.

Boring?  But they had cow spots!  ?

[+LS650]

On 12/4/2020 at 5:54 PM, MHaensel said:

I grew up in small town in North Dakota, USA. Schools in rural ND were Apple II from one side to the other. My particular school may have had a Model II in the front office, but that's the only exception I remember.

What computers were in your school? Did you have the same kind at home?

In the early 80s, my little one-story high school had about a dozen Apple II+'s.

 

One weekend someone smashed a window and stole all of the computers.  The school's alarm system was triggered and within just a few minutes the RCMP caught a couple of students sitting calmly on a park bench near the school.  These two guys were 'known' to the cops as trouble-makers, and everyone suspected them, but there was absolutely no evidence, and the cops had to let them go.

 

A year or two later I happened to bump into one of them after we graduated from high school, and I asked him, "Hey Danny, did you actually steal those Apples?  How did you do it?"

Like most thieves who get away with a crime, he was happy to brag about it. 

 

Apparently he and his cohort broke into the computer room while carrying some heavy duty Glad garbage bags.  They threw the Apples into the plastic bags, and then tossed the bags up onto the school's roof-top, where they figured the cops would never think to look.  The thieves then sat down on the nearby park bench and calmly lit up a cigarette while they waited for the cops to arrive.  After the police checked them out and let them go, they went home, waited until the next night, and went back and collected their loot.  They ended up selling the Apples for cheap at swap meets in another town.

 

The last I heard, he was still something of a hoodlum who was in and out of trouble with the cops, and never got his life straightened out.