1090XL remake

[kenames99]

50 minutes ago, David_P said:

All we need now is an SIO card to plug the 1090 into an 800 or a 400  

 

that really is a thing. I think I even saw somewhere that atari was going to do that.

[kenames99]

17 minutes ago, Mathy said:

Hello guys

 

 

A PBI-card for the 400 and 800 would be a better idea.

 

Sincerely

 

Mathy

 

 

that would be cool but it would need extra things like the PBI code in rom somehow. also might as well throw some ram on it too at this point we are almost at incognito level. not a bad idea tho, I love it when people have ideas.

 

Ken

 

[kenames99]

28 minutes ago, mytek said:

Kinda defeats the whole idea of parallel expansion to go through the much slower SIO bus.

but it would open up all the available plugins in the 1090. but yea, still at sio speeds.

 

Ken

 

[reifsnyderb]

36 minutes ago, Mathy said:

Hello guys

 

 

A PBI-card for the 400 and 800 would be a better idea.

 

Sincerely

 

Mathy

 

 

I think this idea could be pretty easily be adapted for the 3rd slot in an 800.  Given the design of the 800, I could easily imagine adding a small section of code to the OS that would look for a card in the 3rd slot and run code off of a ROM almost 1090XL-like.

 

 

 

[reifsnyderb]

1 hour ago, David_P said:

All we need now is an SIO card to plug the 1090 into an 800 or a 400  

 

We'd probably need a CPU board with a ROM to pull this off.  Either that, or another Rapsberry Pi Pico.  The 1090XL (and 1091XL) both have the ability to turn off the buffers from a card.  So, this sort of thing could be done.  Obviously, some things would be impractical....like memory.

[reifsnyderb]

I discovered this board isn't working with SpartaDOS-X.  Since an normal XEP-80 requires a driver, I am assuming this is a similar issue.  I've sent @drac030 a message.

[+kheller2]

40 minutes ago, reifsnyderb said:

I discovered this board isn't working with SpartaDOS-X.  Since a normal XEP-80 requires a driver, I am assuming this is a similar issue.  I've sent @drac030 a message.

There was a set of faster XEP drivers that were done, I wasn’t sure if you used that code as a basis.  
And the original 80 column card hooked into E: did it not?

[reifsnyderb]

5 minutes ago, kheller2 said:

There was a set of faster XEP drivers that were done, I wasn’t sure if you used that code as a basis.  
And the original 80 column card hooked into E: did it not?

I used the code starting about 1/4 down this page:   https://atariwiki.org/wiki/Wiki.jsp?page=XEP80

 

The basics are the same but it's been modified to run from ROM and use $D1F8 as opposed to PORTA.  The code hooks into E: and S:.  From debugging, I never saw where S: was used.

 

Edited July 12, 2023 by reifsnyderb

[spicyjack]

51 minutes ago, reifsnyderb said:

I discovered this board isn't working with SpartaDOS-X.  Since an normal XEP-80 requires a driver, I am assuming this is a similar issue.  I've sent @drac030 a message.

You've hopefully seen this...

This...

And this?

The tl;dr version is that there are Altirra XEP-80 drivers on the Additions.atr disk image that work in SDX, and the Altirra Help browser describes which driver is which.

[reifsnyderb]

2 minutes ago, spicyjack said:

You've hopefully seen this...

This...

And this?

The tl;dr version is that there are Altirra XEP-80 drivers on the Additions.atr disk image that work in SDX, and the Altirra Help browser describes which driver is which.

Thanks!  I've seen some of that.  I didn't know about the additions disk.  However, the emulated XEP-80 uses $D1F8 as opposed to PORTA.  If I am correct about the drivers, they should require that the XEP-80 be at PORTA.  If they use Atari's E: handler, then the drivers should work.  But if SpartaDOS-X goes through the E: handler, why would it need the drivers.  If I don't hear back from @drac030 in the next day or two, I'll try the drivers.  I have some serious doubts, though.

[reifsnyderb]

I finished updating the new 80 column board and here it is.  I've added that 10k ohm resistor, fixed the jumper problem, and added a wirewound resistor, to the back.  Atari used a wirewound resistor on many of their power supplies to go from the unregulated DC to the +5VDC so as to take some of the load off of the voltage regulator.  It won't hurt to add that feature but I'll have to carefully experiment with different resistor values.

 

[+Stephen]

4 hours ago, David_P said:

All we need now is an SIO card to plug the 1090 into an 800 or a 400  

 

No - a 3 or 4kB/sec serial communication does not replicate a 100kB/sec parallel bus.

[TGB1718]

6 hours ago, reifsnyderb said:

I didn't know about the additions disk.

SDX has the XEP80.SYS driver in the CAR device, only difference I can see between the additions disk

and the SDX driver is that the SDX one stays in 80 column mode if you press RESET.

[+Larry]

10 hours ago, kenames99 said:

the 400 and 800 do not have the PBI code in the OS ROM to handle it.

 

the incognito has the PBI port I think, there is a 50 pin header. maybe the os rom on that has the code for it. the cable between may be a problem because of length. I would try if I had an incognito but sadly I do not. that is also NOT a plea to get one. I have many other things going on right now.

 

Ken

 

Wouldn't it be possible to add the code in the big hole at $C000-$CFFF?  But the 800 is so large anyway that hanging a 1090 off of it is hard to imagine.

[reifsnyderb]

1 hour ago, Larry said:

Wouldn't it be possible to add the code in the big hole at $C000-$CFFF?  But the 800 is so large anyway that hanging a 1090 off of it is hard to imagine.

There isn't much of a point, really, because a 1090 shouldn't have more than a 6 inch long ribbon cable.  So you'd have to set a 1090 on top of the 800.  The big hole at $Cxxx is available but, on many "customized" 800's, is used for Omnimon, extra memory, other ROMs, etc.  For example, on my 800 I've been running OS-2023-C...which uses the memory at $Cxxx. 

 

On the 800, the 3rd RAM card slot has special pins.  There is a /D5xx, /D6xx, and an /EXSEL pin.  So it's possible to put some firmware in the $D6xx page and bank the page.

[+DrVenkman]

12 hours ago, kenames99 said:

header. maybe the os rom on that has the code for it

Incognito can run the XL/XE OS and supports the on-board IDE hard disk interface used for the CF card device, so … it should support any PBI device if connected properly, at least in theory. 

[flashjazzcat]

In practice. Incognito has an XL compatible PBI which works with IDE Plus, Turbo Freezer, etc.

[Faicuai]

3 hours ago, Larry said:

Wouldn't it be possible to add the code in the big hole at $C000-$CFFF?  But the 800 is so large anyway that hanging a 1090 off of it is hard to imagine.

The 800 does not need a "1090" external box, in principle.

 

When upgraded with Incognito, its internal (and fully shielded, solid) expansion bay becomes a "defacto" place-holder for up to three cards, provided PBI-passthrough facilities are provisioned on such "PBI-compliant" boards. As a bonus, there is PLENTY of +12v and +5v DC power available in all slots, which makes it an ideal platform for this purpose (provided that the limited # of slots would meet your needs, of course).

 

We have not even touched the fact that an entirely new CPU-board (with 6502, ANTIC and GTIA re-implemented on FGPAs) equipped with its own on-board RAM and ROM and bus-logic handling on CPLD, could provide not just system-wide acceleration, but also further simplify and free more space on the expansion bay, as well (in the future).

 

In terms of today's electronics, we are just starting to scratch the surface with the 800. It is on a league of its own, relative to the rest of the lineup.

 

 

Edited July 12, 2023 by Faicuai

[reifsnyderb]

Oddly enough, a fully upgraded 800 is more powerful than an XL with a 1090...in most cases.  I might make up an 80 column card, like this one, for the 3rd slot in an 800.  The biggest issue with the 800 would be getting that HDMI cable outside of the case.  But, that's for another thread.

[flashjazzcat]

We have VBXE, Sophia, and SCCC in Atari 800s. Cable routing is quite doable.

[Faicuai]

15 minutes ago, reifsnyderb said:

The biggest issue with the 800 would be getting that HDMI cable outside of the case.

Solved.

 

 

Here's another look:

 

 

Bit3, Sophia-2, PBI, all tested. As long as they are flat, of course. Plus better cooling for the expansion bay, completely invisible, reversible (if spare top-shield is available)  and no structural compromise or creepy-looking cuts on the expansion-bay cage itself.

 

[reifsnyderb]

9 minutes ago, flashjazzcat said:

We have VBXE, Sophia, and SCCC in Atari 800s. Cable routing is quite doable.

True.  But I wouldn't want to have to modify the case.  I am thinking an arrangement like the Bit-3 80 that had a ribbon cable leading out to an HDMI connector.

[flashjazzcat]

An obvious solution would be to 3D-print a new IO fascia, or just run a fixed cable out of the back of the case through the hole where the entirely useless RF cable currently emerges.

[flashjazzcat]

This guy's video is a must-watch for anyone thinking of modifying their 800:

 

[Faicuai]

33 minutes ago, flashjazzcat said:

An obvious solution would be to 3D-print a new IO fascia, or just run a fixed cable out of the back of the case through the hole where the entirely useless RF cable currently emerges.

Perfectly possible or doable (and even more if anyone wishing so), but not really needed on the 800.

 

The exception would be being forced to exit the system with a circular / round cable, instead of a flat ribbon. But SOPHIA-2 upgrade, Bit3 FullView and Incognito's PBI-connector suggests the flat-ribbon concept works really well.

 

A new I/O fascia would make a lot of sense if designing a new, drop-in, plug-and-play power board with DVI / RGB / analog / sound / FujiNet (and power control / back up) functionality, which opens up a whole new realm of possibilities (except for those users that sunk modifications on their old Power Board, which will be instantly screwed, of course).

 

Generally speaking, it is not a good idea to conceptualize work on the 800 with the mentality and mindset derived from the restrictions of the 800XL / XE series. I saw that clearly when upgrading my own systems.

Edited July 12, 2023 by Faicuai