SNACK - SNES Atari Controler Kit

[Irgendwer]

3 hours ago, SlidellMan said:

Wow, that was a nice demonstration of your adapter. By the way, have you considered porting Attack of the PETSCII Robots to the 5200, or is that out of the question?

Thanks!

Actually I have a half baked 5200 version on my disk, missing the adaptations for the controller and supporting only the first level of the game. In general it should be possible, but sales forecast is quite pessimistic, as the production costs for a non-standard cart supplying the needed memory while making the effort to design and produce one is quite unbalanced.

[Irgendwer]

5 hours ago, Tigerduck said:

Wow, looking forward to cover my naked "Snackies" it's getting cold outside...

 

Yes, I would like to supply the "warm coat", but still nobody replied to my A800/400 measure request...

[Irgendwer]

While I just posted the library in the 7800 forum to illustrate usage, here for completeness the cc65 library how to use SNACK in own applications:

Snack cc65 Library.zip

 

Have fun!

Edited December 17, 2021 by Irgendwer

[Tigerduck]

On 12/17/2021 at 12:34 AM, Irgendwer said:

 

Yes, I would like to supply the "warm coat", but still nobody replied to my A800/400 measure request...

I will care about during Christmas...

[cornchip]

On 12/9/2021 at 6:24 PM, Irgendwer said:

In principle, I created already a case.

 

 

Unfortunately the height of the joystick ports differ between the 8-Bit series, so that the depicted one only 'works' for Atari XLs.
I plan to create a more generic one with changeable feet to support at least the original, XL and XE series (sorry for the NUC users...).

Since I haven't an Atari 800 or 400 in reach, I need help to estimate the dimension.

I need the measure between the lower, inside port enclosure above 'table'.

 

Here the example for the XL:

 

BTW: That would be a great and helpful project: To collect those details, clearances etc. for all ports (SIO etc.) of all models... (in the XE the joystick ports are really buried into the machine).

 

As soon as I have a version which matches my standards, I will publish the data, so that you (or a friend) can print your own case.

 

 

A400 from bottom of port to table...18.75mm. Merry Xmas to all.  ?

 

 

[Mrshoujo]

I propose an alternative mapping of the buttons be available as an option so the controller is held upside down making the directional cross key usable with the right thumb and the "fire" buttons usable with the left thumb.

 

I'm of the group of players for whom the Atari 2600 joystick was perfect as is and subsequently bought the Atari Lynx because it could flip the screen making it so I could play with the direction pad with my right thumb and the A and B buttons with my left.

 

When I converted an NES controller years ago, that's how I wired it up. Easy enough to rip out the chip and solder in the wires from the cable. 

[Tigerduck]

Atari 400

 

[Tigerduck]

Atari 800

 

 

[Irgendwer]

9 hours ago, Tigerduck said:

Atari 400

Thank you very much!

 

Actually I need the measure from the lower end of the port interior since the encapsulation thickness may vary.

Even more confusing: While @cornchip has done this measure and got 18.75mm for the 400 your measure going to the outer shell which should be lesser then is > 19 mm.

 

Any hints or tips what's the problem here? (head scratching...)

 

Edited December 25, 2021 by Irgendwer

[_The Doctor__]

perhaps one measured from bottom of atari to port and the other measured from desktop to port...

little rubber feet can be worn or missing or different... that makes a difference

 

Edited December 26, 2021 by _The Doctor__

[+-^CrossBow^-]

8 hours ago, _The Doctor__ said:

perhaps one measured from bottom of atari to port and the other measured from desktop to port...

little rubber feet can be worn or missing or different... that makes a difference

 

Or they could have been replaced completely with larger/thicker ones. I know I've had to replace the rubber feet on a few of my consoles over the years and I use whatever I have on hand that will fit the space and match all around. So these measures should be done with the assumption that the feet won't be present at all to ensure clearance with all consoles.

[Mr Robot]

18 hours ago, Irgendwer said:

 

Even more confusing: While @cornchip has done this measure and got 18.75mm for the 400 your measure going to the outer shell which should be lesser then is > 19 mm.

 

 

Maybe @cornchip's 400 has different rubber feet on the bottom of it, more compressed or missing?

[cornchip]

 These measurements are very close to being the same.....a half mm. That's equivalent to something like 4 sheets of paper. It's not much and only shows a range of measurements you could possibly see.  I say we split the difference and call it 19mm. ?

[Irgendwer]

52 minutes ago, cornchip said:

These measurements are very close to being the same.....a half mm.

Plus the thickness of the port shell, while @Tigerduck measured not from the inside.

But I guess it's impossible to produce "one size fits all" and I will come up with some kind of compromise which may needs individual adaptation by spacers/feet.

 

Thanks again for the support!

[Tigerduck]

More Pictures...

[Irgendwer]

2 hours ago, Tigerduck said:

More Pictures...

That's really great!
Thank you very much.

[Tigerduck]

I use extension cables to prevent the bending of the snack device...

[massiverobot]

8 hours ago, Tigerduck said:

I use extension cables to prevent the bending of the snack device...

Do you have any of these for sale to USA?

[Irgendwer]

6 hours ago, massiverobot said:

Do you have any of these for sale to USA?

Since nobody applied for an omnibus order yet, I will make an alternative offer in a separate thread soon.

 

Edited December 28, 2021 by Irgendwer

[BrainSlugs83]

Apologies, I'm new here -- this may not be the best way to ask -- but:

 

1. Regarding the SNACK -- Is there a schematic available?  Or at least, some example code on how to poll the port from the 2600 (even if impractical)?
 

2. Regarding the Joy2B project -- is it compatible with the 7800 2-button scheme? -- like, can software written for the 7800 joysticks see two of the Joy2B Buttons?

Edit:

3. Regarding the measurements ... why not just use an extension cable? -- even if it's only 6" (~15cm) -- it seems like it avoid the need for accurate measurements (especially with those nubs at the bottom of the console which can be an indeterminate length -- especially with refurb consoles). -- And it would also protect your console ports from the strain.

Edited December 29, 2021 by BrainSlugs83
I had an idea.

[Irgendwer]

11 hours ago, BrainSlugs83 said:

1. Regarding the SNACK -- Is there a schematic available?  Or at least, some example code on how to poll the port from the 2600 (even if impractical)?

 

The schematic is available for private use for all ABBUC members. Atari 8-bit source code is above:

 

I don't think using the enhanced mode is impractical for the 2600, but it may brings some restrictions for 2 or 3 scan lines across the screen.

The standard mode is no problem anyway and in conjunction with a wireless adapter brings new fun to the old machine.

 

11 hours ago, BrainSlugs83 said:

2. Regarding the Joy2B project -- is it compatible with the 7800 2-button scheme? -- like, can software written for the 7800 joysticks see two of the Joy2B Buttons?

I just checked that out, while being a fresh 7800 owner for some weeks now.

The answer uncovers a dilemma and I would like to turn back time a little:

The estimation of the 7800 buttons is vice versa to the estimation of the Joy2B buttons. ?

(E.g. you have to press the buttons not to fire/bomb in Xevious on the 7800.)

 

So in hindsight I would encourage the Joy2B project and @ascrnet to turn that meaning/hardware to be compatible to the 7800 buttons.

But since there are some adapters and patched JOY2B software out there, I think I have to enhance the SNACK firmware to support a third, 7800 compatible mode...

 

To all: Do you think it would make sense to change the Joy2B+ standard even now?

 

[Irgendwer]

12 hours ago, BrainSlugs83 said:

3. Regarding the measurements ... why not just use an extension cable? -- even if it's only 6" (~15cm) -- it seems like it avoid the need for accurate measurements (especially with those nubs at the bottom of the console which can be an indeterminate length -- especially with refurb consoles). -- And it would also protect your console ports from the strain.

That's always an option. But especially when using a wireless adapter the compact solution directly at the port is much nicer.

 

For the 7800 you have to use an extension cable nevertheless if you don't position the console at an edge. Otherwise - while the port points a little downward - SNACK will interfere with the surface.

 

[+Eyvind Bernhardsen]

7 hours ago, Irgendwer said:

To all: Do you think it would make sense to change the Joy2B+ standard even now?

I don't think that would make much sense. It would mean modifying every existing joystick/controller and re-patching all the games (there are 70 in the Joy2Bplus GitHub repo, and those aren't the only ones that support Joy2B+).

[BrainSlugs83]

9 hours ago, Irgendwer said:

To all: Do you think it would make sense to change the Joy2B+ standard even now?

I wouldn't make a breaking change since it exists and so do many game patches -- but I wonder if there's a way to make a non-breaking change -- like for future adapters -- for example: if the hardware schematic added an optional physical switch (like a simple DPDT switch), to switch between the two modes so that if you wanted to use it on the 7800, you could just flip a switch. -- Maybe call it the "extended" version or something. -- That way, existing code won't have to change.

 

Edit: or maybe just a DB9-to-DB9 optional dongle that people can build that flips the signals? -- you could call it the "Joy2-7800"? ?

 

9 hours ago, Irgendwer said:

That's always an option. But especially when using a wireless adapter the compact solution directly at the port is much nicer.

Maybe make the height adjustable? -- like add separate feet that have a thread on them (like a wide plastic thread), so they can be fine adjusted for the height of each system.

 

Or you could just measure to the bottom of the plastic of the console and let the user provide their own feet? (Maybe provide some that are spongey and will deform to match the height of the console?)

 

9 hours ago, Irgendwer said:

The schematic is available for private use for all ABBUC members.

Ahh so not freely available (I'm using google translate, but it looks like there is a monthly fee to be a member?).

 

Dang though.  I going to be making my own "smart" Microcontroller based controller adapter (for Genesis, 7800, NES, and SNES) -- but I would prefer not to fracture the eco-system -- so being compatible with the existing solution seemed like the proper thing to do.  (I have no plans to sell mine, but I would openly sharing it.)

 

(But, for example -- if I wrote a game for my adapter -- if it was compatible -- then people could also use the SNACK instead if they wanted to.)

 

Unless... is there another SNES controller standard for the Atari? (I searched and found only this so far. -- and I would prefer to just support what already exists.)

Edited December 29, 2021 by BrainSlugs83
added clarifications & additional ideas

[Mathy]

Hello Peter

 

2 hours ago, BrainSlugs83 said:

I'm using google translate, but it looks like there is a monthly fee to be a member?

 

From the English version of the paper supplement to ABBUC magazin #146:

 

Quote

The member fee for international members is 32.00€ per year.
Bank: Sparkasse Vest Recklinghausen

Account holder: ABBUC e.V.

Accountnumber: 54000468
Bank Code: 426 501 50
IBAN: DE63 4265 0150 0054 0004 68, SWIFT-BIC: WELADED1REK

PayPal: https://paypal.me/abbucev

 

Sincerely

 

Mathy