Petscii Robots Now in Color

[_The Doctor__]

you are describing a key repeat prevention timer sometimes instituted to mimic on the interface that which the Atari does for itself. It's a mistake for a bridging interface but IS consistant with the standard for such keyboards... that sort of thing should be able to be corrected in such devices and or the keyboard controller... sounds like it's much less of an issue than first thought when also considering it's not like that on all such devices.

Edited December 16, 2021 by _The Doctor__

[+-^CrossBow^-]

I will need to test again but I was also experiencing a delay in my key presses when wanting to hold down for repeat or change direction. The odd thing is that the delay was different between using my UNO with the ATR image or my FujiNet with the ATR. So I need to check it again to report which was which.

 

[Beeblebrox]

16 minutes ago, -^CrossBow^- said:

I will need to test again but I was also experiencing a delay in my key presses when wanting to hold down for repeat or change direction. The odd thing is that the delay was different between using my UNO with the ATR image or my FujiNet with the ATR. So I need to check it again to report which was which.

 

@-^CrossBow^-  the plot thickens. Do you have another A8 machine you can test it on incidentally?

 

I was making the natural assumption that my AKI USB interface was the likely common denominator, but as mentioned before I get no other issues with any other game I've tested so far on my 800XL with it installed. So maybe it is an issue with Attack of the Petscii Robots after all? Difficult to problem solve these things I guess. 

 

I'll just play Attack... on my 800 and Altirra for now I think. 

Edited December 16, 2021 by Beeblebrox

[+-^CrossBow^-]

4 minutes ago, Beeblebrox said:

@-^CrossBow^-  the plot thickens. Do you have another A8 machine you can test it on incidentally?

This is on my 130xe that I use. I 'technically' have another 8-bit machine yes... an 800xl. But it is still NIB and I'd prefer to not change that condition of it. 

 

I want to say the repeat key delay was on the UNOcart and wasn't present on the FujiNet which, is why I mainly have been using the FujiNet. But also because it just loads up everything I need without issue...so...

 

Anyway, I have the 130xe out still and should be able to check this later this evening.

 

[_The Doctor__]

if that were the case, poking the Atari back to the default state would cure such an issue before loading the game... perhaps the menu file selection programs of such devices are altering the values and not putting them back before their loader takes over... though that is indeed odd... I'd suggest you contact tschaak909 (fujinet) or the persons responsible for the uno to fix that over-site if indeed that is the state of things...

 

[+-^CrossBow^-]

8 minutes ago, _The Doctor__ said:

if that were the case, poking the Atari back to the default state would cure such an issue before loading the game... perhaps the menu file selection programs of such devices are altering the values and not putting them back before their loader takes over... though that is indeed odd... I'd suggest you contact tschaak909 (fujinet) or the persons responsible for the uno to fix that over-site if indeed that is the state of things...

 

Interesting you mention this because the UNO only works from keyboard to make your selections whereas the Fuji allows me to use a controller, keyboard, combo of both to do things. 

[+mytek]

4 hours ago, Beeblebrox said:

So to clarify the lag on my 800XL is only when you hold any direction down to continually move in said direction - where the continual movement is delayed for approx 1 second before you start moving. Then the same occurs if you want to then change to move continually in another direction. However where you press a directional key once to move one square/tile in a direction you get no lag and move one step instantly.

Isn't this the normal behavior of pressing and holding any key on an Atari - with a momentary pause before auto repeat kicks in?  At least from what I remember it certainly is.

 

If this is indeed what is happening, then it sounds like David Murray needs to modify his game so that it changes the delay before repeat aspect in the Atari OS settings from the default. There is provision for doing so if I recall correctly.

 

Found it: ANTIC VOL. 4, NO. 7 / NOVEMBER 1985 - Fast Moves

 

[Beeblebrox]

Just now, mytek said:

Isn't this the normal behavior of pressing and holding any key on an Atari - with a momentary pause before auto repeat kicks in?  At least from what I remember it certainly is.

 

If this is indeed what is happening, then it sounds like David Murray needs to modify his game so that it changes the delay before repeat aspect in the Atari OS settings from the default. There is provision for doing so if I recall correctly.

 

Found it: ANTIC VOL. 4, NO. 7 / NOVEMBER 1985 - Fast Moves

 

@mytek  sure, I might have come to the same conclusion but for the fact it doesn't happen on my 800 or in Altirra and it seems the wider players of Attack.. are not experiencing this. You see said mometary pause when typing characters in CLIs or in Word processing for sure. 

[+mytek]

1 minute ago, Beeblebrox said:

@mytek  sure, I might have come to the same conclusion but for the fact it doesn't happen on my 800 or in Altirra and it seems the wider players of Attack.. are not experiencing this. You see said mometary pause when typing characters in CLIs or in Word processing for sure. 

Interesting, and I see your point. But if the stock keyboard is doing it on an 800XL, then maybe it's the difference between the 400/800 and XL/XE OS that is at issue.

 

[_The Doctor__]

a few moving parts here... is it the OS, the keyboard device, storage device and it's loading menu method etc... time for a grid of real hardware and emu combinations to sort it out... like we used to do with anyone who can filling in testing data.

Edited December 16, 2021 by _The Doctor__

[Beeblebrox]

1 hour ago, mytek said:

Interesting, and I see your point. But if the stock keyboard is doing it on an 800XL, then maybe it's the difference between the 400/800 and XL/XE OS that is at issue.

 

@mytek  Very true. Although to muddy the waters further I am running this on an Incognito upgraded 800 which is running the XL/XE OS. I can try running the game in Colleen mode I guess. It still won't be a stock 800 in that respect. Will have a go later.

[Irgendwer]

6 hours ago, mytek said:

If this is indeed what is happening, then it sounds like David Murray needs to modify his game so that it changes the delay before repeat aspect in the Atari OS settings from the default. There is provision for doing so if I recall correctly.

 

Beside that David won't change anything as (I guess) he never built the (Edit: A8) application, the delay timer is already adapted by AotPR to 10 or new version 9 (default is 40).

 

It would be very helpful to exclude the game as a reason for the problem by just doing what I suggested:

 

POKE 729, 10

in Basic (or original 40) and compare the behavior of the keyboard delay.

 

I wonder why this is so difficult...

Edited December 16, 2021 by Irgendwer

[+mytek]

3 minutes ago, Irgendwer said:

 

Beside that David won't change anything as (I guess) he never built the application, the delay timer is already adapted by AotPR to 10 or new version 9 (default is 40).

So it sounds like David Murray's role in this, is probably the same as his role in the Commander X16 project - more the project manager then the actual brains and talent behind it.

 

3 minutes ago, Irgendwer said:

It would be very helpful to exclude the game as a reason for the problem by just doing what I suggested:

 

POKE 729, 10

in Basic (or original 40) and compare the behavior of the keyboard delay.

 

I wonder why this is so difficult...

Yep that would probably be a good test to run. But the only reason I'm even in this thread is because people keep tagging me, and then I try to address their concerns relative to my TK-II and/or Lotharek's AKI of which I already explained that some of the behavior could be attributable to the default PS/2 or USB keyboard parameters in play, which are not currently changeable in either of these keyboard adapters. Then to confuse matters, it appears that this isn't only applicable to the adapters, but also might be happening with the stock keyboard under certain OS versions. At this point I've said all I can, so I think I'll exit this discussion for the time being

 

[Irgendwer]

2 minutes ago, mytek said:

So it sounds like David Murray's role in this, is probably the same as his role in the Commander X16 project - more the project manager then the actual brains and talent behind it.

Don't underestimate Davids capabilities. The code running on the A8 is >90% his PET code and most data (font, tiles, map, score) is also his effort.

 

6 minutes ago, mytek said:

But the only reason I'm even in this thread is because people keep tagging me, and then I try to address their concerns relative to my TK-II and/or Lotharek's AKI of which I already explained that some of the behavior could be attributable to the default PS/2 or USB keyboard parameters in play, which are not currently changeable in either of these keyboard adapters.

I've got that and appreciate your supportive position. My comment wasn't also targeted to you, but you had the "luck" that my reply just matched to yours...

 

[+mytek]

1 minute ago, Irgendwer said:

Don't underestimate Davids capabilities. The code running on the A8 is >90% his PET code and most data (font, tiles, map, score) is also his effort.

Opps I didn't realize that, and profoundly apologize for my earlier statement that suggests otherwise. I based this on watching his X16 videos which always seemed to indicate that it was being built upon other peoples hardware creations.

 

[+-^CrossBow^-]

Confirmed, the keyboard delay is only when loading the game from my UNOCart. It is instant without delay when loaded and ran from my FujiNet. So it seems the UNO must be doing something with the keyboard to cause this. But yeah... when you first press and hold a key for direction, it will turn in that direction and then the character will stand still for a full 1sec before then continuing to move in that direction. So it does make split changes in direction and movement a bit challenging with that delay each time you change direction.

 

But yeah... in summary on my 130xe using the exact same Enhanced Robots.ATR:

 

UNOCart = keyboard repeat key delay of 1sec

FujiNet = no delay and keyboard repeat is instant.

 

 

[_The Doctor__]

so do you think it's a two part issue... unocart doesn't put the keyboard back to it's proper state after using it for it's purposes and the game doesn't completely re-initialize and set up the keyboard either?

[Dinadan67]

22 hours ago, Beeblebrox said:

 

Of course the other difference between your's and my 800XL setup's is that I have a PAL machine with PAL Antic, (50hz) whereas your PAL machine has an NTSC Antic onboard - but I don't think that would have a bearing on this behaviour (?)

I swapped the Antic to a PAL one, still no lag. My 800XL is equipped with the original Compy-Shop 320kb-Upgrade. I have two OS in the machine, but tested with the plain XL-OS.

@candle maybe there are different versions of the USB AKI firmware?

[atarilux]

On 12/13/2021 at 12:10 PM, Larry said:

This color version is such a great improvement IMO. I was so disappointed when David first put up the video showing the mono Atari version, and basically explained that with the limitations of the Atari graphics modes, this is what you get. 

Yes, I just saw this thread now and discovered the colour version recently. It is a huge improvement over the mono one. The mono one had nice gameplay but sadly it was too brutal in terms of graphics and really undermined the game. I hope he keeps making Atari games.

[JagChris]

I just grabbed the download version. Ill see if my 600XL has any keyboard delay problems.

[JagChris]

I've uploaded the original version. No key delay as described on my 64k 600XL.

[+-^CrossBow^-]

15 hours ago, JagChris said:

I've uploaded the original version. No key delay as described on my 64k 600XL.

What hardware are you using to load up the digital version from?

 

Again, I only get the repeat key delay when playing it from my UNOcart. The FujiNet doesn't present this issue. And it is the exact same ROM image on both devices that I was loading up.

 

 

[JagChris]

I'm using a 64k 600XL with an SIO2SD from the Brewery. Nothing too fancy.

 

Holding down directional repeat causes no delay. Both original and enhanced have no problem.

 

Fun little game.

[_The Doctor__]

If Unocart loads it's own OS or shims it could be an issue, so you need to have someone look at the nuts and bolts of what uno is wedging in there. If the uno's own firmware is throttling something thru the cart port, that's more complicated and rare. It is possible given uno's abilities.

Edited January 26, 2023 by _The Doctor__

[YSG2020]

Have to compliment David on such a cool new 8bit game. Very well done. It’s a shame though that the A8 port is by far the worst of any system port of this game out there by comparison. Thankful and certainly no offence to whoever ported this to A8, but can’t we get a version that’s at least on par with the C64 version (which is excellent) ? I wouldn’t personally buy a copy until this happens, as I think it’s a disservice to the A8s capabilities and community to accept such mediocrity for something that isn’t free shareware.