Raiders of the Lost Ark for the 5200

[+Allan]

I always wondered why there was no Raiders of the Lost Ark for the 5200. Not even a mention of it in any internal documents (that we know of). It seemed like it was such a lost opportunity to not publish this game for the 5200. My guess is that they simply didn't have the time/right creative programmer, although the 2600 version was released in 1982. You would have figured that they would have jumped on the opportunity to have this title for their new system.

 

**Yes I know about the Czeck and Polish Indiana games.

[Linndrum]

The 2600 version was one of my favorite games. I remember there was a kid that lied to me about the game every day at school, he would make up rooms and scenes that would happen in the game and I would go home and try to find them unsuccesfully every day. I was so gullible. 

[+Cafeman]

2 hours ago, Allan said:

**Yes I know about the Czeck and Polish Indiana games.

do tell

[+Allan]

19 minutes ago, Cafeman said:

do tell

Nothing to tell, just the games on Atarimania that I figured people would find doing a quick search and point this out to me. I thought I would save them some keystrokes. ? And since you responded, do you what other adventure game would be very cool on the 5200 (and 8-bits as well)?  

 

This one. ?

[+Cafeman]

On 12/18/2021 at 4:47 PM, Allan said:

This

Interesting.  I sort of forgot I posted that in 2012.   Well, it certainly isn't abandoned.   I've played around with different ideas for years.  Now that AdvII XE is done and out of the way ... and I have been watching Elementary again lately.  

 

[Lynxpro]

On 12/18/2021 at 11:26 AM, Allan said:

I always wondered why there was no Raiders of the Lost Ark for the 5200. Not even a mention of it in any internal documents (that we know of). It seemed like it was such a lost opportunity to not publish this game for the 5200. My guess is that they simply didn't have the time/right creative programmer, although the 2600 version was released in 1982. You would have figured that they would have jumped on the opportunity to have this title for their new system.

 

**Yes I know about the Czeck and Polish Indiana games.

 

It's because Howard Scott Warshaw only wanted to code for the 2600 with its large user base. That's what he told me about 5 years ago when I asked him at a Q&A session for Game Over here in Sacramento over why he programmed for the 2600 instead of the 5200/A8.

Edited January 4, 2022 by Lynxpro

[BIGHMW]

6 hours ago, Lynxpro said:

 

It's because Howard Scott Warshaw only wanted to code for the 2600 with its large user base. That's what he told me about 5 years ago when I asked him at a Q&A session for Game Over here in Sacramento over why he programmed for the 2600 instead of the 5200/A8.

That's probably why Yars' Revenge was never ported to the A8/5200 either. Well, that's what all of us here on AA are here for, just like Lennart Bown @Thelen in 2009 (and Paul Lay @playsoft later on for us 2 years ago) came up with the brilliant Yar's Strike for all of us, I guess that's up to one of us to dream up a similar game to Indiana Jones of our very own that plays similar to it. If someone puts their mind to it, they can do it, I've always believed it (and preached that to my fans), the power lies inside your own head, if only I had more experience (and both programming knowledge and knowledge and concept of the OG Indiana Jones game itself) I myself could've done it, we all saw what @glurk did with his wonderful 2600-to-5200/A8 translation/conversion of Barnstorming, maybe someone here can concoct this one up too.

[MrTrust]

Well, it's still not out of the question  It was ported to the 8-bit machines and uses the console buttons to switch others items.  It's a carbon copy of the 2600, so I imagine the ROM could easily be ported to the 5200 by changing a few memory addresses.

 

My computer broke, so I'm not in a position to do it, but if someone else were to do it, I'm sure that person would be rewarded with dignified gratitude and not simply be peppered with more requests for free toys 5 minutes later.

[Cebus Capucinis]

[BIGHMW]

6 hours ago, MrTrust said:

Well, it's still not out of the question  It was ported to the 8-bit machines and uses the console buttons to switch others items.  It's a carbon copy of the 2600, so I imagine the ROM could easily be ported to the 5200 by changing a few memory addresses.

 

My computer broke, so I'm not in a position to do it, but if someone else were to do it, I'm sure that person would be rewarded with dignified gratitude and not simply be peppered with more requests for free toys 5 minutes later.

I'm not gonna go there, if Paul Lay or anyone else (he's about the only one I know of who is not only qualified to, but also is the only one I know who is that damn good at it, and that statement right there is meant as a compliment) wants to do it that'll be exclusively up to him, otherwise if it does happen that will be for a good reason and not for me peppering him to do it. No more "free toys" 5 minutes later or anything like that. Maybe this and A8 Bug Attack and maybe Space Eggs (Moon Cresta) and Threshold (Astro Blaster) for possible A8-to-5200 conversion later on and that'll about do it. Period.

 

Besides, I have been getting serious on settling for just my 5200 and my newly-obtained ColecoVision as if it came down to only two units (and they won't have to worry about conversion requests on the CV/Adam forums as that console is in a league of its own with no similar systems to it out there), and just call it a day. Of course we will still continue to do The Atari Report but not with as much a serious mood to it as in the past, I talked it over with my management and even he says it should be because I love playing the games on them and not as a mere 'business' move used to win over subscribers to TAR or that coveted-but-not-coming contract from iHeartRadio.

 

BTW, I just checked my Homesoft Collection for ROTLA and found it, plus I also have the ROM for Bug Attack here as well.

Raiders of the Lost Ark.xex Bug Attack.xex

Edited January 5, 2022 by BIGHMW

[Wrathchild]

I'll get my coat... ?

[Keatah]

Suddenly a question popped into my tiny head, amid all the recent talk'n'blabbering about conversions. Does any one console 400/800 vs 5200 offer a better physical experience or playability?

 

Since I play by emulation, both machines seem fairly equal now. And pretty sure they did back in the day too. The only differences I recall would've been the controllers & keyboard. Maybe there's some other variation or subtlety that's lost (in emulation) or that I'm just not picking up on.

Edited January 6, 2022 by Keatah

[moycon]

Not much to add other than I loved ROTLA on 2600 back in the day. My friend Mike and I finally solved the game after a weekend of non-stop playing back a few months after it was released. He owned a 5200 at the time (I was kind of jealous, but at the same time we tended to play more 2600 than 5200 games when I went over there) but have no doubt we would have LOVED a 5200 version of that game. I've always been a graphics freak, and I'll bet it would have really stood out on that console.

 

[BIGHMW]

38 minutes ago, Keatah said:

Suddenly a question popped into my tiny head, amid all the recent talk'n'blabbering about conversions. Does any one console 400/800 vs 5200 offer a better physical experience or playability?

 

Since I play by emulation, both machines seem fairly equal now. And pretty sure they did back in the day too. The only differences I recall would've been the controllers & keyboard. Maybe there's some other variation or subtlety that's lost (in emulation) or that I'm just not picking up on.

Since you mentioned it and since I have experienced both, having both a 5200 and an XEGS, I actually find the 5200's CX52 keypad and joystick combination easier to control over the separate joystick and computer keyboard (or for that matter the same for a 5200 Masterplay with a 2600/7800 stick with separate keypad) and that's why I myself prefer the ease of it so I just have to worry about a mere 12 keys on the integrated CX52 controller (or ColecoVision equivalent) as opposed to lugging over the big keyboard (of my XEGS for instance) while also holding a separate joystick in my hand at the same time, this is especially crucial for games like Defender and Star Raiders where simultaneous control of both critical and could be the difference between escape and losing a life (or "GAME OVER"). Besides most games take only a few keys so why fumble around and have to look away and search for the right key to hit on the XEGS keyboard when it's almost instantaneous on the joystick/keypad (especially once you get the pattern down).

 

That's why I prefer the 5200 over the XEGS. That's also why I would love to see more A8 games ported over to the 5200, rather than the 5200 games done up "Glenn"-style to the A8, they just don't work nor play the same. I have played both. I should know.

 

Controllability is key, despite what folks say/said about the CX52, the same was also said for ColecoVision and Intellivision, the combo joystick/disc/keypad/dual fire button control was the best thing to ever come to home videogames. Period.

[zzip]

11 hours ago, Keatah said:

Suddenly a question popped into my tiny head, amid all the recent talk'n'blabbering about conversions. Does any one console 400/800 vs 5200 offer a better physical experience or playability?

It depends.

One plus for the 5200 is Atari revamped a few titles to make the 5200 version better than the 400/800 (Qix, Centipede, Dig Dug), but you can find the 5200 version back-ported to the 8-bit online, so this is kind of moot

 

But the 8-bits having more RAM and the possibility of a disk drive opens up a new world of games the 5200 can't handle

11 hours ago, Keatah said:

Since I play by emulation, both machines seem fairly equal now. And pretty sure they did back in the day too. The only differences I recall would've been the controllers & keyboard. Maybe there's some other variation or subtlety that's lost (in emulation) or that I'm just not picking up on

Hardware wise, it's mostly the same but with the internal memory map different enough that they can't run each other's software without someone to first translate the differences.

 

[BIGHMW]

8 minutes ago, zzip said:

It depends.

One plus for the 5200 is Atari revamped a few titles to make the 5200 version better than the 400/800 (Qix, Centipede, Dig Dug), but you can find the 5200 version back-ported to the 8-bit online, so this is kind of moot

 

But the 8-bits having more RAM and the possibility of a disk drive opens up a new world of games the 5200 can't handle

True how true, that's why one wise man (myself) usually (when he has the $$$ like I did BITD) owns both an XEGS AND a 5200. There are those titles that Big Sexy just can't handle. But then when Coleco/Opcode came up with their Super Game Module for ColecoVision BITD I don't know why Atari (nor anyone else since) hasn't come up with one for US, Curt Vendel HAD that same idea (his 64K upgrade) but he is no longer with us, otherwise everything XEGS would've been available for us too. THAT, was certainly a game changer. But something like a U1MB and also a VBXE for Big Sexy would've been nice for us too, at least a plug-in like the VCS adapter is or ColecoVision's/Opcode's SGM would be fine for us so we can play supercharged game like they can.

 

13 minutes ago, zzip said:

Hardware wise, it's mostly the same but with the internal memory map different enough that they can't run each other's software without someone to first translate the differences.

I find the CX52 controllers (albeit non-centering and analog in nature) to be SO much easier to manage as opposed to the separate joystick and keyboard of the XEGS (or even a separate 2600/7800 joystick and keypad of a 5200 Masterplay/Redemption unit for that matter so that shoe fits both sides mind you fellow Big Sexy owners) as sometimes it could be the difference between getting out of a dangerous situation, or losing a life (or "GAME OVER") as simultaneous (and instantaneous) control is CRUCIAL in some games (like in Star Raiders and Defender for instance) for those reasons.

[zzip]

37 minutes ago, BIGHMW said:

But then when Coleco/Opcode came up with their Super Game Module for ColecoVision BITD I don't know why Atari (nor anyone else since) hasn't come up with one for US,

Because Atari killed the 5200 far too soon.

[BIGHMW]

38 minutes ago, zzip said:

Because Atari killed the 5200 far too soon.

Yup, they SURE DID alright. They SURE DID. Big Sexy had a future, she sure did, even we knew it.

[BIGHMW]

2 hours ago, BIGHMW said:

Yup, they SURE DID alright. They SURE DID. Big Sexy had a future, she sure did, even we knew it.

 

Well, they say "The Future Is NOW!", so who's gonna step up and do a "Curt Vendel" and then some for us 5200 owners and perhaps come up with like what XL/XE/XEGS owners saw for their systems???

 

This October 2022, marks the 40th Anniversary of The Atari 5200 SuperSystem, so why not make her EVEN MORE SUPER than ever before!!!

 

Whoever developed the U1MB and VBXE upgrades for the 8-bit computers/XEGS saw the niche with owners of those units, SOMEONE HERE HAS TO see the same with us. We know now that there are more (and more passionate) 5200 owners/players (yes even those who play on emulators) than ever before that are always hungry for more gear and more games for our systems, so why not develop some of those ideas up, like a plug-in (like the VCS adapter is, cartridge-port-loadable) module that'll allow XEGS games and gear (including the keyboard and all disk drives and peripherals) to play on Big Sexy (much like Coleco/Opcode had with their ADAM computer module [Expansion Module #3?] for ColecoVision) and maybe throw in both a combined U1MB/VBXE module (like Coleco/Opcode has with their Super Game Module [Expansion Module #4?] for ColecoVision) or even an available internal memory upgrade along with it. If Coleco/Opcode can do it, someone here can do it, we know Atari won't/didn't, so why not maybe perhaps one of us!!! I would pay even vookoo $$$ to get my 5200 upgraded/repaired provided she even be in development and I'm sure some of you will too.

 

A driving controller for games like Pole Position would be nice too, Coleco had one for Turbo, we deserve one too. We already have our legendary CX-53 Trak-Ball, and the VCS adapter and also the twin-controller holder for games like Robotron and Space Dungeon (and Intellidiscs in twin-stick mode, and hopefully soon maybe Black Widow and other twin-stick-optimized ports) so how about it!!!

 

It sure as hell beats having to go on eBay or Mercari to find an old-stock XEGS or hopefully get a NOS Atari Mexico XE on eBay to make it happen, it also saves up a lot more home theater rack space too for that matter.

Edited January 6, 2022 by BIGHMW

[+Stephen]

Legit question.  Why is it so important to have everything on the 5200 that is on the computer, especially when you have both?  I know of one game that took advantage of the analog controller, that being Star Raiders.  Absolutely everything else can be done on the computer.  What is this obsession with getting everything hardware and software from the computer over to the 5200?

[BIGHMW]

9 hours ago, Stephen said:

Legit question.  Why is it so important to have everything on the 5200 that is on the computer, especially when you have both?  I know of one game that took advantage of the analog controller, that being Star Raiders.  Absolutely everything else can be done on the computer.  What is this obsession with getting everything hardware and software from the computer over to the 5200?

Well @Stephen, here is the real scoop. The reason I would love to see more ports to the 5200 is because if it ever again came down to a matter of downsizing my unit lineup to just merely TWO units as opposed the the whole arsenal of consoles I currently own it would be both the 5200 as well as my newly-obtained ColecoVision, as I grew up in my high school days playing both. I owned (and still do, my third, a 2-port with a 4-port BIOS) a 5200 back then in 1983 (my first I got for my 17th Birthday from May 19th, 1983) and also played ColecoVision at a classmate's (Lisa Rivers, now Lisa Rivers-Halfon) house that her younger brother (Natan) had BITD and fell in love with it too by doing so. We both learned to appreciate each other's games on each of our systems then too as a result of it and actually become good enough on both to ace some of the games as well. Besides I already have both Atarimax Ultimate SD multicarts for each (the CV one will be in later on this week and I've already got the ROMs ready to go for her) and each have their own unique lineups of titles, and, BTW, unlike the 8-bit and 5200 forums the CV/Adam forums guys won't be flooded with any "conversion" requests because that unit is in a world of its own with nothing anywhere near resembling it.

 

Now true while I may have rubbed guys like you and Paul Lay @playsoft the wrong way sometimes with some of my (over-the-top) requests for A8-to-5200 conversions I have a great deal of respect for the man and what he has done for not only myself, but for all of us in the 5200 community. Even prior to me coming onboard he had already done a ton of conversions but when I first saw his brilliant work on the 8-bit homebrew, Lennart Bown's Yar's Strike, that he did on a whim because of my post from way back in 2016 of wanting to perhaps see a 5200 version of Yars' Revenge, that introduced me not only to him, but also to the possibility of getting other conversions done too, along came Star Island, thanks to @phuzaxeman for getting that game to my attention, and then months later he not only hacked into the otherwise-dismal 1982 unfinished prototype of 5200 Asteroids and actually made the controls more manageable, in which was impressive enough, but then he also out of his own way to even port over the A8 version and improved its defense systems on top of it. And then most recently I became almost like if he can do all of this the sky's pretty much the limit, and while he also did @glurk's Barnstorming for us maybe I just might've gotten out of hand a bit, and for that I do apologize and I am also very thankful for what Paul did for me as well. 

 

But going from a mere 69 titles from 1982-1987 to over 400 titles (and climbing) including all the prototypes, some of which were finished or playable at that too, and also the A8 conversions over the years and the great homebrews from guys like @Ryan Witmer and also Robert @rra and Eric Anschuetz @eea and John Weisgerber @jjw (A/W/A) have proven that Big Sexy has her staying power, not bad considering how badly mistreated by the press and how badly mis-marketed by Warner she was, we kept the faith, and it has paid dividends over these past almost 40 years she has been around.

 

LONG LIVE BIG SEXY!!! Third-Wave systems RULE!!! She'll be 40 years young this October 2022!!!

[Keatah]

12 hours ago, Stephen said:

Legit question.  Why is it so important to have everything on the 5200 that is on the computer, especially when you have both?

I also wonder this.

 

2 hours ago, BIGHMW said:

The reason I would love to see more ports to the 5200 is because if it ever again came down to a matter of downsizing my unit lineup to just merely TWO units as opposed the the whole arsenal of consoles I currently own it would be both the 5200 as well as my newly-obtained ColecoVision, as I grew up in my high school days playing both.

As an emulation guy it's easy to get the best of both worlds on one piece of hardware. In fact it's how I've come to prefer vintage gaming over the past two decades. And in comparing the offerings for 400/800 vs 5200 side-by-side I see some differences. But I hear there's more.

 

Outside of emulation - there are times it's best to have the necessary hardware variants and call it a day. Here that means an 8-bit Atari computer AND the 5200. IDK. That's how I see it.

[BydoEmpire]

On 1/6/2022 at 12:42 AM, BIGHMW said:

Since you mentioned it and since I have experienced both, having both a 5200 and an XEGS, I actually find the 5200's CX52 keypad and joystick combination easier to control over the separate joystick and computer keyboard (or for that matter the same for a 5200 Masterplay with a 2600/7800 stick with separate keypad) and that's why I myself prefer the ease of it so I just have to worry about a mere 12 keys on the integrated CX52 controller (or ColecoVision equivalent) as opposed to lugging over the big keyboard (of my XEGS for instance) while also holding a separate joystick in my hand at the same time, this is especially crucial for games like Defender and Star Raiders where simultaneous control of both critical and could be the difference between escape and losing a life (or "GAME OVER"). Besides most games take only a few keys so why fumble around and have to look away and search for the right key to hit on the XEGS keyboard when it's almost instantaneous on the joystick/keypad (especially once you get the pattern down).

 

That's why I prefer the 5200 over the XEGS. That's also why I would love to see more A8 games ported over to the 5200, rather than the 5200 games done up "Glenn"-style to the A8, they just don't work nor play the same. I have played both. I should know.

 

Controllability is key, despite what folks say/said about the CX52, the same was also said for ColecoVision and Intellivision, the combo joystick/disc/keypad/dual fire button control was the best thing to ever come to home videogames. Period.

I had both a 5200 and XEGS for a long time and I totally agree. The XEGS was fine, and I love the stock 2600 sticks, but having all the controls ON the controller was great and I never had a problem with the 5200 joysticks' ergonomics (especially the Best Electronics ones). I'm a fan of numeric keypads on controllers. Obviously some games are better than others with the 5200 stick.

It might have been my individual machines of course, but I always felt the 5200 had a sharper, clearer picture than the XEGS.

[MrTrust]

On 1/6/2022 at 3:14 PM, Stephen said:

Legit question.  Why is it so important to have everything on the 5200 that is on the computer, especially when you have both?  I know of one game that took advantage of the analog controller, that being Star Raiders.

 

I just like 5200 better.  Simple as.  Definitely, the controller made a lot of difference on games other than Star Raiders.  Space Shuttle: A Journey Into Space took full advantage of keypad.  Some of the sports games did as well.  Countermeasure used it; Defender used it.  It wasn't used as well as on Colecovision or Intellivision, but it does work better than the keyboard for a lot of things.

 

The analog is a matter of taste, I guess.  Galaxian, Centipede, Missile Command, Super Breakout, Kaboom, Space Invaders, Gorf, and some others did take advantage of the sensitivity.  All are playable on both systems, but I prefer the feel of the analog.  Gorf uses absolute positioning like Missile Command, and I find it makes the game a lot more fun, though I know some people absolutely hate the controls on it.  Then, there's the joystick coupler fit the dual stick shooters.  Much better than anything that they came up with for the standard joysticks.  Never having to stop in the middle of a gaming session to switch to a paddle controller is a big plus.

 

Very few games are original to the system, and as a result, some of the controls ended up being programmed badly moving from the A8 with its binary controller, but most of them with just fine.  I can beat Pitfall 2 with it, for crying out loud.  It works way better than people would have you believe.

 

On 1/6/2022 at 3:01 PM, BIGHMW said:

If Coleco/Opcode can do it, someone here can do it, we know Atari won't/didn't, so why not maybe perhaps one of us!!! I would pay even vookoo $$$ to get my 5200 upgraded/repaired provided she even be in development and I'm sure some of you will too.

 

Duuuuuuuuude.  You're talking about a massively time consuming and expensive project for a system with a much smaller fanbase, and the homebrew scene for it is basically one guy at this point.  What's the point unless there are people actively developing for it?

On 1/5/2022 at 11:46 PM, Keatah said:

Suddenly a question popped into my tiny head, amid all the recent talk'n'blabbering about conversions. Does any one console 400/800 vs 5200 offer a better physical experience or playability?

 

Yes, see above.  I'd add to that Ryan Witmer's outstanding homebrews take a lot of advantage of the 52's hardware options - keypad, trackball, 4 ports - in a way that the A8s kind of can't.

 

BUT, while there's a lot of potential for there to be a difference, it often doesn't come up.  Again, nearly everything on it is ported over from the A8s, and my understanding is the CX52 is a bitch to program for.  Like, the 2nd fire button is actually mapped as the shift key on an A8, or something like that, and the keypad can't be debounced easily.  So, when Parker Brothers makes James Bond on the A8, and both your primary and secondary weapons are mapped to that single button and they just alternate with each press, you get the 5200 version and they didn't bother to change it for the second fire button.  You get a lot of things like that.

 

Gateway to Apshai.  Colecovision version may not be the best, but it controls the best, because you have the keypad and reach different function is mapped to a different key.  4 to draw your weapon, 2 to search, etc.  The A8 just uses the Select and Option keys and you have to press them repeatedly to cycle through the commands.  5200 version, theoretically, could be like the CV, but since only Activision ever went through and recoded the game for the CX52, you just get the Select and Option keys mapped to Pause and Reset buttons.  So it goes with most of the library.

 

So, it's very much a qualified "yes".

 

On 1/6/2022 at 11:16 AM, zzip said:

But the 8-bits having more RAM and the possibility of a disk drive opens up a new world of games the 5200 can't handle

 

Well, they got Atariblast on the 5200 with the Atarimax's on-board wizardry, so while you are correct, of course that there certain games that just are not doable on the 52, there's a hell of a lot that's thinkable on it now.  A stock 800XL with a disk drive isn't worlds away in what it can do.

 

On 1/7/2022 at 4:56 AM, Keatah said:

Outside of emulation - there are times it's best to have the necessary hardware variants and call it a day. Here that means an 8-bit Atari computer AND the 5200. IDK. That's how I see it.

 

There are, and that's why I have both, but while I'll bust BIGHMW's balls along with everyone else, every old second-tier system needs its cheerleaders, rabble rousers, soccer hooligans, what have you.  

 

The 5200 is a great system that was unfortunately smothered in its cradle, but while its fans are few, we are here, and it is really cool to smash that big, clicky power button and see something like M.U.L.E. or Bosconian or Atariblast running on it, and get to play a great game with the comfy, squishy joystick.  Yeah, your dining on the table scraps that the A8 guys are tossing you for the most part, but that's still a damn fine collection of games we've got.  I hope they keep coming.

[Greg2600]

While I certainly could obtain an 8-bit Atari computer, I too prefer the 5200!  That said, while I love getting another 8-bit conversion, I don't see the point for Raiders.  If it's literally the 2600 version.