+CyranoJ Posted January 13, 2022 Share Posted January 13, 2022 Just for the next alexa/google indexing... The definitive best Atari Jaguar game in the entire library is anything by Reboot. there, done 3 5 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machine Posted January 13, 2022 Share Posted January 13, 2022 2 hours ago, CyranoJ said: Just for the next alexa/google indexing... The definitive best Atari Jaguar game in the entire library is anything by Reboot. there, done I did ask "what is the best homebrew atari jaguar game?" and I got "checkered flag on Amazon". That hurt my heart slightly. I was hoping to get Rebooteroids back as an answer. I guess we will have to wait a month or two and ask her again once Gravatic Mines comes out. 1 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoboz Posted January 14, 2022 Share Posted January 14, 2022 (edited) If best game is equal to the best selling game; then the best homebrew, or aftermarket game should be Protector (SE). I read somewhere that this game sold well over 500 copies already a long time a go. Edited January 14, 2022 by phoboz 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+CyranoJ Posted January 14, 2022 Share Posted January 14, 2022 24 minutes ago, phoboz said: If best game is equal to the best selling game; then the best homebrew, or aftermarket game should be Protector (SE). I read somewhere that this game sold well over 500 copies already a long time a go. Protector is a horizontally scrolling shooter developed by Bethesda Softworks and published by Songbird Productions I didn't know Bethesda made homebrew? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoboz Posted January 14, 2022 Share Posted January 14, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, CyranoJ said: Protector is a horizontally scrolling shooter developed by Bethesda Softworks and published by Songbird Productions I didn't know Bethesda made homebrew? That's why I don't like the term homebrew, it's not well defined. At least the term aftermarket is well defined, e.g: available after sales in the original market... Definitions that I can find for homebrew includes developing for a system not intended to be developed for by users. The Jaguar was made an open platform (e.g. that changed), so that part of the definition does not hold anymore. Edited January 14, 2022 by phoboz 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+CyranoJ Posted January 14, 2022 Share Posted January 14, 2022 The term "homebrew" carries a lot of baggage with it. I've no problem calling Downfall, or HMS Raptor, or SuperFly homebrew - but, personally, I do not consider Gravitic Mines "homebrew" - it's more "indie" in my mind. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoboz Posted January 14, 2022 Share Posted January 14, 2022 (edited) 5 minutes ago, CyranoJ said: The term "homebrew" carries a lot of baggage with it. I've no problem calling Downfall, or HMS Raptor, or SuperFly homebrew - but, personally, I do not consider Gravitic Mines "homebrew" - it's more "indie" in my mind. I think it's a degrading term. Just because you develop an Indie game as an after market product, it gets a label that you have done something you were not supposed (allowed) to do (e.g. hacked a licenced system) I'd rather compete in the same league as other commercial products. Edited January 14, 2022 by phoboz 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Editorb Posted January 14, 2022 Share Posted January 14, 2022 5 hours ago, CyranoJ said: The term "homebrew" carries a lot of baggage with it. It also makes me thirsty for beer o’clock. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+LS650 Posted January 14, 2022 Author Share Posted January 14, 2022 Personally I think homebrew is a compliment. There are a lot of terrific homebrew games for various systems - far better than many commercial releases. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+jgkspsx Posted January 14, 2022 Share Posted January 14, 2022 Homebrew has no negative connotations for me, and aftermarket games for the Lynx and Vectrex (and much later on the Jaguar) were major reasons I got into those systems. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zzip Posted January 14, 2022 Share Posted January 14, 2022 Homebrew is just the latest term to describe games/apps developed by people who don't do it for a living. We've gone through a bunch of different terms over the years: public domain games (but this implies that there's no copyright and it's free, so not very useful) shareware - (usually these nag you to send money until you do, so doesn't apply to every game, but this was a good model for the BBS/pre-WWW era when developers couldn't set up a website and have online sales. freeware - like shareware but without the nagging Free Software/Open Source - comes with the source code, more a development philosopky than a business model 6 hours ago, phoboz said: I think it's a degrading term. Just because you develop an Indie game as an after market product, it gets a label that you have done something you were not supposed (allowed) to do (e.g. hacked a licenced system) I'd rather compete in the same league as other commercial products. If you are doing it commercially, "Indie" is probably a better term than "homebrew" anyway. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RollOut Posted January 14, 2022 Share Posted January 14, 2022 1 hour ago, jgkspsx said: Homebrew has no negative connotations for me, and aftermarket games for the Lynx and Vectrex (and much later on the Jaguar) were major reasons I got into those systems. Symantec preferences aside, you are spot on with this. The independent scene for the Jaguar is one of the major reasons why I'm still interested in this machine. 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agradeneu Posted January 14, 2022 Share Posted January 14, 2022 (edited) 18 minutes ago, zzip said: Homebrew is just the latest term to describe games/apps developed by people who don't do it for a living. We've gone through a bunch of different terms over the years: public domain games (but this implies that there's no copyright and it's free, so not very useful) shareware - (usually these nag you to send money until you do, so doesn't apply to every game, but this was a good model for the BBS/pre-WWW era when developers couldn't set up a website and have online sales. freeware - like shareware but without the nagging Free Software/Open Source - comes with the source code, more a development philosopky than a business model If you are doing it commercially, "Indie" is probably a better term than "homebrew" anyway. The line between them is pretty blurred I think. I like the label "indie" much better as it underlines that the game was made on a professional level and is fully polished, in case of the Jaguar if it is comparable to a full fledged commercial release from the 90s. In case of Gravitic Mines, the reference were modern indies, that was the goal. Edited January 14, 2022 by agradeneu 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kal Posted January 14, 2022 Share Posted January 14, 2022 2 hours ago, ls650 said: Personally I think homebrew is a compliment. There are a lot of terrific homebrew games for various systems - far better than many commercial releases. Totally agree. I spend more money on Atari homebrew ganes now than I do for games for current systems. everyone I’ve bought has been superb but CJ is right. Last Strike is better than a lot of other indie games I’ve bought for current systems and I’ve no doubt that Gravitic Mines is too. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agradeneu Posted January 14, 2022 Share Posted January 14, 2022 5 minutes ago, Kal said: Totally agree. I spend more money on Atari homebrew ganes now than I do for games for current systems. everyone I’ve bought has been superb but CJ is right. Last Strike is better than a lot of other indie games I’ve bought for current systems and I’ve no doubt that Gravitic Mines is too. Without modern Indie, there would be no Gravitic Mines 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machine Posted January 14, 2022 Share Posted January 14, 2022 9 hours ago, CyranoJ said: The term "homebrew" carries a lot of baggage with it. I've no problem calling Downfall, or HMS Raptor, or SuperFly homebrew - but, personally, I do not consider Gravitic Mines "homebrew" - it's more "indie" in my mind. Yeah, I really think "indie" is a much better term. I will start using that.... Alexia still got it wrong when I asked "What is the best indie developed Atari Jaguar game?" 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roots.genoa Posted January 14, 2022 Share Posted January 14, 2022 (edited) On my (French) website I just use "homebrew" for new games on old systems. I know it's not the exact definition, but it's more convenient to use the same word for games on both old consoles and old computers, even though the latter always existed, even when the systems were still sold. And I call "neoretro" games on modern systems with a retro "style" (like Shovel Knight for instance), indie or not. Edited January 14, 2022 by roots.genoa 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agradeneu Posted January 14, 2022 Share Posted January 14, 2022 52 minutes ago, roots.genoa said: On my (French) website I just use "homebrew" for new games on old systems. I know it's not the exact definition, but it's more convenient to use the same word for games on both old consoles and old computers, even though the latter always existed, even when the systems were still sold. And I call "neoretro" games on modern systems with a retro "style" (like Shovel Knight for instance), indie or not. New games for Genesis are not called homebrews - for a reason? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoboz Posted January 14, 2022 Share Posted January 14, 2022 (edited) 15 hours ago, CyranoJ said: I didn't know Bethesda made homebrew? What I meant is that I don't think it's fair to create a subgenere in aftermarket games (homebrew or whatever you may call it). Basically tossing less than a handful development teams against each other, just to limit the group enough to proclaim a certain champion. I think that the quality for many of these games (both from the teams of reboot, and phoboz) are good enough today to compete on equal terms as other commercial products. A lot of time and investments are put into these products, not only by a single person, but from a team of programmers, artist, level designers, musicians, game testers, box/manual designers, publishers, and local distributors. The reason that Protector (SE) so far has sold more partially has a to do with the time it was released (e.g. closer to the commercial lifetime of the Jaguar), and not only the fact that Bethesda developed it. Guys prepare for a competitive year. We have high profile releases from several vendors: Asteroite from phoboz, and Gravitic Mines from reboot. In addition, Another World has a new run, and DrTypo finally gets a well deserved DrTypo Collection as a physical release. You may have a certain bias towards a developer, or publisher, but please don't let this limit your choices. Enjoy! Edited January 14, 2022 by phoboz 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Editorb Posted January 14, 2022 Share Posted January 14, 2022 1 hour ago, phoboz said: You may have a certain bias towards a developer, or publisher, but please don't let this limit your choices. The only bias I've been displaying toward new Jag releases is: When I was young I wallowed in none You know none is no way to be You must go for ALL! Go for ALL and ALL will set you free! 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roots.genoa Posted January 15, 2022 Share Posted January 15, 2022 9 hours ago, agradeneu said: New games for Genesis are not called homebrews - for a reason? I call them homebrew too, so I don't know what you are referring to. ? 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agradeneu Posted January 15, 2022 Share Posted January 15, 2022 2 hours ago, roots.genoa said: I call them homebrew too, so I don't know what you are referring to. ? Its not only about you, sorry 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agradeneu Posted January 15, 2022 Share Posted January 15, 2022 (edited) Currently playing "Super Meat Boy" and "Celeste". Who knows what that means?! ? Edited January 15, 2022 by agradeneu 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rogneda Posted January 15, 2022 Share Posted January 15, 2022 I am glad that there are so many cool games released for the Atari Jaguar. I sometimes play the games my father buys, but also I get to test some games before they are sold (e.g. Kings of Edom, and Asteroite), but I am not a professional play tester. I just do it for fun... 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agradeneu Posted January 16, 2022 Share Posted January 16, 2022 (edited) On 1/15/2022 at 9:10 AM, roots.genoa said: I call them homebrew too, so I don't know what you are referring to. ? On english websites/channels, I think they are just called new games. Especially Xeno Crisis, Tanglewood are not refered as homebrew. To be a bit more specific: homebrew also often refers to hacks of a existing software/games, isn't it? Edited January 16, 2022 by agradeneu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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