agradeneu Posted February 15, 2022 Share Posted February 15, 2022 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Stephen said: Not fast enough to get an immediate jump from 2 seconds per frame to fluid playability as so many people assume. How would you know? All we know is that the 68K could not handle it, as expected. Especially not in C. Edited February 15, 2022 by agradeneu 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Stephen Posted February 15, 2022 Share Posted February 15, 2022 4 minutes ago, agradeneu said: How would you know? All we know is that the 68K could not handle it, as expected. Especially not in C. Well, everyone else just blindly speculates with no proof or anything to substantiate their claims. The magical "GPU in main", "just turn off 68000", and every other claim we've seen repeated ad infinitum since 1995. Given that nothing magical has appeared out of the air showing this incredible untapped power of the Jaguar since 1995, that is my basis of my opinion. Until I see otherwise. I'd love to be proven wrong. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agradeneu Posted February 15, 2022 Share Posted February 15, 2022 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Stephen said: Well, everyone else just blindly speculates with no proof or anything to substantiate their claims. The magical "GPU in main", "just turn off 68000", and every other claim we've seen repeated ad infinitum since 1995. Given that nothing magical has appeared out of the air showing this incredible untapped power of the Jaguar since 1995, that is my basis of my opinion. Until I see otherwise. I'd love to be proven wrong. I have no idea what you are trying to contribute to this topic. Its pretty clear that the Jaguar could not rival the PS version, but the GBA version does not seem to be totally unreasonable for a playable framerate. Question is why people would play an inferior version of a game that is on all platforms? And why would someone go through all this pain to rewrite the renderer for the Jaguars really special hardware? Edited February 15, 2022 by agradeneu 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Stephen Posted February 15, 2022 Share Posted February 15, 2022 10 minutes ago, agradeneu said: I have no idea what you are trying to contribute to this topic. Its pretty clear that the Jaguar could not rival the PS version, but the GBA version does not seem to be totally unreasonable for a playable framerate. Question is why people would play an inferior version of a game that is on all platforms? And why would someone go through all this pain to rewrite the renderer for the Jaguars really special hardware? I guess just trying to temper expectations. After 27 years of constant "Jag can run Quake if only ###" arguments it gets beyond tiring. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alucardX Posted February 15, 2022 Share Posted February 15, 2022 Just now, Stephen said: I guess just trying to temper expectations. After 27 years of constant "Jag can run Quake if only ###" arguments it gets beyond tiring. I don't know how Skyhammer was programmed, but that was a real surprise to me. Full texture mapping and a playable frame rate too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Loguidice Posted February 15, 2022 Share Posted February 15, 2022 5 minutes ago, alucardX said: I don't know how Skyhammer was programmed, but that was a real surprise to me. Full texture mapping and a playable frame rate too. It's a great showpiece for the Jaguar for sure, but, to be fair, the draw distance is super close and the display window relatively small, as well as the fact that the engine really chugs in parts. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alucardX Posted February 15, 2022 Share Posted February 15, 2022 Just now, Bill Loguidice said: It's a great showpiece for the Jaguar for sure, but, to be fair, the draw distance is super close and the display window relatively small, as well as the fact that the engine really chugs in parts. All very true. Maybe scaling back texturing could have helped? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agradeneu Posted February 15, 2022 Share Posted February 15, 2022 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Bill Loguidice said: It's a great showpiece for the Jaguar for sure, but, to be fair, the draw distance is super close and the display window relatively small, as well as the fact that the engine really chugs in parts. You haven't seen GBA TR yet? It's an even shorter draw dis. And super low res. Its chugging along badly although there are not many moving objects on screen. The reason everyone think its impressive is the platform its running on. Edited February 15, 2022 by agradeneu 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agradeneu Posted February 15, 2022 Share Posted February 15, 2022 1 minute ago, alucardX said: All very true. Maybe scaling back texturing could have helped? Or further optimizing 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoboz Posted February 15, 2022 Share Posted February 15, 2022 (edited) 15 minutes ago, alucardX said: I don't know how Skyhammer was programmed, but that was a real surprise to me. Full texture mapping and a playable frame rate too. I guess it was because the developers were fully focused on the Jaguar, and not to make portable code that should work on any platform. I would love to see Descent using that engine: Edited February 15, 2022 by phoboz 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agradeneu Posted February 15, 2022 Share Posted February 15, 2022 Hehe, look, Lara goes Cybermorph! 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
42bs Posted February 15, 2022 Share Posted February 15, 2022 1 hour ago, agradeneu said: Hm, are you sure? The GPU is clocked 26 MHZ and does all the math for 3D, including barrel shifter, Matrix multiplication, support for FPU? The 68K is not supposed to do any 3D heavy lifting. Its should not be a reference for Jaguars 3D computing. I was comparing 68k ( hence the current version) and ARM7TDMI. The GPU may outperform the ARM. But I assume only hand written/optimized code. The 4k is the challenging part ? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alucardX Posted February 15, 2022 Share Posted February 15, 2022 1 hour ago, agradeneu said: Hehe, look, Lara goes Cybermorph! I think skylar should be integrated into this one. 1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swapd0 Posted February 15, 2022 Share Posted February 15, 2022 There is no need of FPU with OpenLara, there are a bunch of files with fixed point arithmetics, if the game is compiled on a modern platform it uses the floating point version. I need to finish and test it the "rendering command queue", the idea is to "convert" each frame into a set of matrix operations, vertex transformations and mesh drawing commands, then pass this queue to the GPU to do the heavy work. 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alucardX Posted February 15, 2022 Share Posted February 15, 2022 2 minutes ago, swapd0 said: There is no need of FPU with OpenLara, there are a bunch of files with fixed point arithmetics, if the game is compiled on a modern platform it uses the floating point version. I need to finish and test it the "rendering command queue", the idea is to "convert" each frame into a set of matrix operations, vertex transformations and mesh drawing commands, then pass this queue to the GPU to do the heavy work. Are you also going to convert the color to us CRY? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swapd0 Posted February 15, 2022 Share Posted February 15, 2022 9 minutes ago, alucardX said: Are you also going to convert the color to us CRY? After coding the drawing routines... 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swapd0 Posted February 15, 2022 Share Posted February 15, 2022 4 hours ago, agradeneu said: Hehe, look, Lara goes Cybermorph! It could be interesting to make a Gouraud-Shaded-Tomb-Raider... 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alucardX Posted February 15, 2022 Share Posted February 15, 2022 (edited) 2 minutes ago, swapd0 said: It could be interesting to make a Gouraud-Shaded-Tomb-Raider... It might actually run pretty well. Edited February 15, 2022 by alucardX 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leech Posted February 16, 2022 Share Posted February 16, 2022 7 hours ago, Stephen said: I guess just trying to temper expectations. After 27 years of constant "Jag can run Quake if only ###" arguments it gets beyond tiring. Dude, the Jaguar could TOTALLY run Quake if only Atari had made a Jaguar 5 last year. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alucardX Posted February 16, 2022 Share Posted February 16, 2022 51 minutes ago, leech said: Dude, the Jaguar could TOTALLY run Quake if only Atari had made a Jaguar 5 last year. You still have to turn the 68K off though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leech Posted February 16, 2022 Share Posted February 16, 2022 One would hope we would at least have a 68010 by then... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alucardX Posted February 16, 2022 Share Posted February 16, 2022 1 minute ago, leech said: One would hope we would at least have a 68010 by then... Budgets. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JagChris Posted February 16, 2022 Share Posted February 16, 2022 12 hours ago, phoboz said: Question is how much it is re-writing as compared to starting from scratch? If it's not only C code, but if it's code using floating point variables? This is something that needs to be emulated (very slow) even if run on the GPU. E.g. the Jaguar does not have a FPU (Floating Point Unit), nor did the PSX, nor did any other non-high-performace-computing-system at that time (with the exception of systems equipped with the Motorola 68881/2, 486DX, or Pentium II processors) So in that case it's not only about re-writing some code in assembler, but to completely redo the math. It was originally designed for the Saturn and PSX back in 1996. Neither had floating point. No need to redo any math. It's been done for 26 years. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leech Posted February 16, 2022 Share Posted February 16, 2022 18 minutes ago, JagChris said: It was originally designed for the Saturn and PSX back in 1996. Neither had floating point. No need to redo any math. It's been done for 26 years. Totally off topic, but it's about time they put Cad Bane into a live action show! Possibly one of my favorite Star Wars characters... Back on topic, wasn't it the PS2 / Dreamcast era where floating point units became more common in game systems? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JagChris Posted February 16, 2022 Share Posted February 16, 2022 16 minutes ago, leech said: Back on topic, wasn't it the PS2 / Dreamcast era where floating point units became more common in game systems? Most likely. I think the N64 was the first console with floating point. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Like us on Facebook
Follow us on Twitter
AtariAge on Instagram
Watch us on YouTube
Chat on Discord
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.