31 years of Sonic: Sonic Origins

[Steven Pendleton]

I guess this is the sequel to my topic from last year:

 

Two things happen in about 9 minutes: Sonic turns 31 (in this time zone, anyway) and Sonic Origins launches. You didn't really think I wouldn't be playing it immediately, did you? I guess we can talk about this collection here. Or not.

 

Here's one for those of you who are EXTREMELY hardcore Sega fans: Prof. Asobin is in the last 2 pages of the Japanese Sonic Origins manual. https://manual.sega.jp/sonicorigins/jp/?pid=15

 

I wonder how many people here besides me even know about Prof. Asobin.

[Steven Pendleton]

Well, I have finished everything up to Mushroom Hill in story mode. Lots of little changes that only losers like me will ever notice, like how the physics are not perfect in a few places, notably the Sonic 1 special stages, where fall speed seems to increase a lot after you fall for a little while. I've been playing the game for 4 hours and 56 minutes and it's 0521 now, so I think it's time to go to bed so I don't feel like complete garbage when I wake up later today.

[digdugnate]

Maybe it's just me, but something I noticed is that in Sonic 2 (especially like Chemical Plant Zone) Sonic doesn't seem to be as 'slippy'.  On the Origins version, when Sonic comes to a stop, it's a full stop instead of taking a step or two in one direction.   

 

So far in what I've played the controls are super tight.  I really appreciate the widescreen format, too.

[Steven Pendleton]

52 minutes ago, digdugnate said:

Maybe it's just me, but something I noticed is that in Sonic 2 (especially like Chemical Plant Zone) Sonic doesn't seem to be as 'slippy'.  On the Origins version, when Sonic comes to a stop, it's a full stop instead of taking a step or two in one direction.   

 

So far in what I've played the controls are super tight.  I really appreciate the widescreen format, too.

It definitely isn't you; the physics are super messed up in this collection in all sorts of places. There are A LOT of places where the physics do not behave as intended, and one of the most obvious places that I have found is in Star Light Act 1. You're supposed to be able to roll down the first hill, keep holding down, and it will roll you up the hill into the extra life. Now in this new version it sends you down into the hole in the floor instead. You also tend to fall extremely quickly in the Sonic 1 special stages, as well. It's not just the physics, either, as collision is different, making it easier to get crushed in some places.

 

Still, this is a nice collection (aside from the volume being far too low for some reason), and I finished everything in story mode about 12 hours ago. I'm still combing through to find all of the stuff that has been changed, but there are a huge list of changes that I have found so far. I do think the music in Sonic 3&K seems very muffled, though. It's very strange.

Edited June 23, 2022 by Steven Pendleton

[digdugnate]

29 minutes ago, Steven Pendleton said:

It definitely isn't you; the physics are super messed up in this collection in all sorts of places. There are A LOT of places where the physics do not behave as intended, and one of the most obvious places that I have found is in Star Light Act 1. You're supposed to be able to roll down the first hill, keep holding down, and it will roll you up the hill into the extra life. Now in this new version it sends you down into the hole in the floor instead. You also tend to fall extremely quickly in the Sonic 1 special stages, as well. It's not just the physics, either, as collision is different, making it easier to get crushed in some places.

 

Still, this is a nice collection (aside from the volume being far too low for some reason), and I finished everything in story mode about 12 hours ago. I'm still combing through to find all of the stuff that has been changed, but there are a huge list of changes that I have found so far. I do think the music in Sonic 3&K seems very muffled, though. It's very strange.

I haven't dived (dove?) into Sonic 3&K just yet, but the audio just seems 'off' to me; I'm not sure if it's muted or the fact some of the tracks are different.  

 

I played one of the beginning special stages in Sonic 1 and it does feel like you fall faster compared to one of the other versions from either Genesis/MD Collection or Genesis online.  I did find it funny I couldn't softlock the game in Sonic 2 in Chemical Plant zone by going too fast in the loops, haha.

[Steven Pendleton]

1 minute ago, digdugnate said:

I haven't dived (dove?) into Sonic 3&K just yet, but the audio just seems 'off' to me; I'm not sure if it's muted or the fact some of the tracks are different.  

Well, both, actually, but yes, it sounds like there is an extremely aggressive low-pass filter on only 3&K.

 

3 minutes ago, digdugnate said:

I did find it funny I couldn't softlock the game in Sonic 2 in Chemical Plant zone by going too fast in the loops, haha.

Don't worry, there are 2 softlocks that I found: first, drop dash on a Super Emerald. Second, defeat Knuckles in Hidden Palace as Hyper Sonic. In both cases, the game will softlock immediately.

[digdugnate]

All that being said, I agree with you.  It's a good overall collection especially since it bundles in Sonic 3&K and CD.  I have CD on maybe Steam and XBox, but I haven't played either one of these titles much since probably the first time around in the 90s or emulated.  

 

I feel like they'll probably throw in a QoL patch relatively soon, but at this point I'm happy with the set.

Edited June 23, 2022 by digdugnate

[Steven Pendleton]

Yeah, this is a nice collection, but it has some curious problems, like the extremely low volume (except the Sonic CD intro, which is SUPER LOUD, especially when you have the volume turned up. Headphones warning!), strange physics, and some even more curious things that were left unfixed. You know about the white water glitch in Launch Base Act 2? Yeah, it's still here for some reason, so if you don't know how to navigate Launch Base Act 2's water section without being able to see, don't do the white water glitch. I tested it on my first time getting there because I was like "lol there's no way it's still here... right?" and then "WTF IT'S STILL HERE". I can make it through that section blind with no problems, but maybe others can't... maybe I play this game too much.

 

If you've never seen it, here is my recording of it (might need some time to process, as I just put it up):

 

Edited June 23, 2022 by Steven Pendleton

[Zoyous]

On 6/22/2022 at 10:51 AM, Steven Pendleton said:

Here's one for those of you who are EXTREMELY hardcore Sega fans: Prof. Asobin is in the last 2 pages of the Japanese Sonic Origins manual. https://manual.sega.jp/sonicorigins/jp/?pid=15

 

I wonder how many people here besides me even know about Prof. Asobin.

I'm familiar with Prof. Asobin! Although I can't recall exactly when/how originally. IIRC, maybe you can see him in some of the European release Master System manuals? Does 'Asobin' have a game-related meaning in Japanese?

[digdugnate]

40 minutes ago, Steven Pendleton said:

Yeah, this is a nice collection, but it has some curious problems, like the extremely low volume (except the Sonic CD intro, which is SUPER LOUD, especially when you have the volume turned up. Headphones warning!), strange physics, and some even more curious things that were left unfixed. You know about the white water glitch in Launch Base Act 2? Yeah, it's still here for some reason, so if you don't know how to navigate Launch Base Act 2's water section without being able to see, don't do the white water glitch. I tested it on my first time getting there because I was like "lol there's no way it's still here... right?" and then "WTF IT'S STILL HERE". I can make it through that section blind with no problems, but maybe others can't... maybe I play this game too much.

 

If you've never seen it, here is my recording of it (might need some time to process, as I just put it up):

 

I thought it was weird the Sonic CD intro was so loud, too! lol

[roots.genoa]

I got that Sonic CD (from Headcannon & Co) on PC years ago and hated it. I don't know if the physics were messed up or what (I remember weird bugs during the pinball boss), but some parts of the level design were just atrocious. ? And frankly, since I love Sonic 3's soundtrack (the ending theme is always in my mp3 player), I'm really not interested in playing it with another music. ?

[Steven Pendleton]

10 hours ago, Zoyous said:

I'm familiar with Prof. Asobin! Although I can't recall exactly when/how originally. IIRC, maybe you can see him in some of the European release Master System manuals? Does 'Asobin' have a game-related meaning in Japanese?

No, but 遊ぶ = to play.

6 hours ago, roots.genoa said:

I got that Sonic CD (from Headcannon & Co) on PC years ago and hated it. I don't know if the physics were messed up or what (I remember weird bugs during the pinball boss), but some parts of the level design were just atrocious. ? And frankly, since I love Sonic 3's soundtrack (the ending theme is always in my mp3 player), I'm really not interested in playing it with another music. ?

Good news: the mods for the music are already available.

[Steven Pendleton]

Found another potential softlock: this spring in Spring Yard might have the potential to trap you between it and the bumper above it. Don't go for that shield because if you mess it up you might get stuck.

 

[digdugnate]

41 minutes ago, Steven Pendleton said:

Found another potential softlock: this spring in Spring Yard might have the potential to trap you between it and the bumper above it. Don't go for that shield because if you mess it up you might get stuck.

 

btw, yes.. it will, lol.  I confirmed this last night playing through and was like $%*&%$*&%!

[digdugnate]

15 hours ago, roots.genoa said:

I got that Sonic CD (from Headcannon & Co) on PC years ago and hated it. I don't know if the physics were messed up or what (I remember weird bugs during the pinball boss), but some parts of the level design were just atrocious. ? And frankly, since I love Sonic 3's soundtrack (the ending theme is always in my mp3 player), I'm really not interested in playing it with another music. ?

The levels are kind of weird in design for Sonic CD I think!  I wonder if there will ever be a chance of licensing the old tracks without modding (like for console versions), like through DLC or something.  Something tells me 'no', tho

[Steven Pendleton]

1 hour ago, digdugnate said:

btw, yes.. it will, lol.  I confirmed this last night playing through and was like $%*&%$*&%!

Damn, so it is possible... I got stuck in there twice for a few seconds each time but managed to get out both times, although I'm not sure how.

 

There are so many odd little things with this collection like this. The physics are messed up, collision/hitboxes are messed up, it's way easier to get crushed to death now (especially in 3&K), certain springs and environmental doodads don't launch you as far as they are supposed to, causing you to fall onto spikes or miss pathways that said springs/doodads should carry you to naturally...

 

I'm not sure what's going on, but this collection has a massive amount of small little imperfections. I made a massive list of changes myself and Sonic Retro users are tearing the thing apart as well, but despite all of the broken crap, I am having a lot of fun with this collection anyway. Not really sure what to say about it yet.

[Zoyous]

Sounds like the developer is claiming that a) somehow, some new bugs they weren't aware of were introduced into the game by Sega after they turned it in (and who do they think would have done that, Sega's marketing team?) and b) they were aware of some bugs that were their fault that they didn't have time to fix.

 

These games are essentially new re-creations, right? Just using original assets? I imagine the original games not only had their finely tuned physics systems, but also had certain situation-specific adjustments to the physics in particular spots where necessary. That's purely my speculation, but that would be a tall order to re-create everything like that without having the original code and thoroughly understanding it.

[Steven Pendleton]

23 minutes ago, Zoyous said:

Sounds like the developer is claiming that a) somehow, some new bugs they weren't aware of were introduced into the game by Sega after they turned it in (and who do they think would have done that, Sega's marketing team?) and b) they were aware of some bugs that were their fault that they didn't have time to fix.

 

These games are essentially new re-creations, right? Just using original assets? I imagine the original games not only had their finely tuned physics systems, but also had certain situation-specific adjustments to the physics in particular spots where necessary. That's purely my speculation, but that would be a tall order to re-create everything like that without having the original code and thoroughly understanding it.

Yeah, these are actually remakes, not ports or emulated versions of the originals, running in a completely new engine (Retro Engine) but using the old art assets and music. The actual code is completely new, and it shows because stuff isn't the way it's supposed to be.

 

The Sonic 1 and 2 here are/were on phones or something. I don't know, I don't have a phone capable of running them, but apparently these are ports of those remakes from phones to PC and some other systems.

 

This version of Sonic CD is weird because it already was on PC (delisted now, of course), but I guess the phone versions got some updates or something that PC never got. Possible that this is a new port of the phone version to PC and stuff instead of using the old PC version as a base, but I don't know.

 

Now the 3&K here is a totally new remake made just for this collection. That's probably why it's got the most problems, as it's totally new. I guess Headcannon made this new remake and sent it to Sega and Sega smashed everything together to make the complete package, which Headcannon had nothing to do with, and that's why it's messed up. Or something.

[Shawn]

https://www.eurogamer.net/sonic-origins-developer-very-unhappy-with-sega-about-state-of-the-game

[roots.genoa]

9 hours ago, Steven Pendleton said:

Found another potential softlock: this spring in Spring Yard might have the potential to trap you between it and the bumper above it. Don't go for that shield because if you mess it up you might get stuck.

This reminds me of the spot that drove me mad in Sonic CD. I think it was in the pinball level, and there were several small holes full of bumpers and it's very hard to get out of them. It's basically ET on Atari 2600 but a lot quicker and way worse. ?

[DoTheMath]

Eh i still haven't played my steam copy so maybe i'll wait for a few patches...

[Steven Pendleton]

4 hours ago, roots.genoa said:

This reminds me of the spot that drove me mad in Sonic CD. I think it was in the pinball level, and there were several small holes full of bumpers and it's very hard to get out of them. It's basically ET on Atari 2600 but a lot quicker and way worse. ?

Collision Chaos is... chaotic.

[Atariboy]

Sounds like the somewhat unusual nature of how the game was developed is the cause of most of the issues. Headcannon developed all these ports, but they weren't the ones tasked with actually bringing that work into Origins. Appears that the process of migrating that work and adapting it for Origins resulted in a lot of inadvertent issues that Headcannon is hoping to be able to assist in fixing if Sega is willing. 

[Zoyous]

So essentially creating a menu system/launcher has introduced bugs in the physics of the games themselves? Are there global variables that would carry over from the launcher into the game?

[Mikebloke]

I have to admit I only remembered it released yesterday and installed it but still haven't played it. I saw the articles about the bugs and got sad. It's OK to have slightly different mechanics, or to change some things so you can do weird things like knuckles in s1 and rails in scd, but make sure it works! 

 

I enjoyed sonic jam even though it had slightly different gameplay and gamemodes for 'easy' and 'hard'. I want to enjoy this game too...