Intellivision Amico’s trademark changed to ‘abandoned’

[Pink]

37 minutes ago, MrBeefy said:

If any of those women were with it as parents they would already have a handle on how to "protect their kids from the evil Yoshi or Kirby". 🤣

 

Amico's SAFE concept is literally only for either the idiots who can't do technology, or who are super strict about content. However, even then some of the Amico games would still be objectionable to that crowd. (Night Stalker - gun promotion, Finnegan - wizardry/witchcraft, Tank Tanks/Missile Comman/Biplanes - war promotion).

Don't forget Earthworm Jim was suppose to be one of the flagship titles of the console, a game with lots of reckless gun violence and crass humor.

[number6]

6 hours ago, Flojomojo said:

Jungle Hunt was a Taito arcade game but it seems to have slipped through the trademark cracks — AtGames put it on all their systems a few years ago. I wonder if someone snagged it when it failed to be renewed? Or maybe Taito doesn’t care to get into another lawsuit since the Jungle King original was sued by the Tarzan estate? 

For what it's worth:

 

Taito mark for Jungle Hunt cancelled December 18, 2004

 

Coleco Holdings LLC mark for Jungle Hunt cancelled August 28, 2020

 

Intellivision Entertainment LLC filed for the mark November 24, 2020

 

#6

Edited August 18, 2022 by number6
Added link

[MrBeefy]

24 minutes ago, Pink said:

Don't forget Earthworm Jim was suppose to be one of the flagship titles of the console, a game with lots of reckless gun violence and crass humor.

Yup and if I remember correctly they even showed him running towards hell in their demo. 😈

[mr_me]

And it wouldn't have been a matter of Taito renewing the trademark, they'd have to use it.  I don't think Jungle Hunt has been in a collection since Taito Legends 2005.  If Taito puts it in a future collection they could probably take the trademark back.

 

33 minutes ago, Pink said:

Don't forget Earthworm Jim was suppose to be one of the flagship titles of the console, a game with lots of reckless gun violence and crass humor.

It's really only a flagship title for Earthworm Jim fans.  Very little work had been done on the game and wasn't expected for at least a year after system release.  If it were to be a great game, the name and characters don't make a whole lot of difference.

Edited August 18, 2022 by mr_me

[Cebus Capucinis]

The trademarks are like the FCC certs, okay? They passed internal trademark testing so we can consider them as good as done, they just won't "certify" them until later.

[number6]

32 minutes ago, mr_me said:

And it wouldn't have been a matter of Taito renewing the trademark, they'd have to use it.  I don't think Jungle Hunt has been in a collection since Taito Legends 2005.  If Taito puts it in a future collection they could probably take the trademark back.

Exactly. Reason for Taito cancellation is as follows:

Quote

Registration cancelled because registrant did not file an acceptable declaration under Section 8. (intent to use)

Coleco LLC failed to respond to a courtesy reminder from uspto for similar reason. 

 

#6

Edited August 18, 2022 by number6
Added definition

[1980gamer]

So for all the things IE and TT did wrong.

 

The wrong marketing.

The wrong game lineup.

The wrong controllers.

The wrong physical media.

etc.

 

What would have been the right things to do.  So many here have a lot to say that is wrong, what would be correct?

 

I don't want to hear a lame PS 5 controller.  I actually completely agree about that type of controller.  I find the Original Intellivision controller to be very intuitive.  

The NES / SNES was fine also.  But The PS controller was the beginning of the end for me.  I like the analogue sticks and even 1 level of shoulder buttons.  But now we buttons all over the place.

I can get by, but I can tell you my Mom and Dad would have no chance and the played the Intellivision and even the PS.

 

They both loved the Wii.  I think if they only had bowling they would have been happy.  They even had the balance board!

 

Before we all say, it was just a bad idea.  I keep hearing here about all these other companies that have put out successful consoles over the past few years.

 

So, lets see what you've got!

[SegaSnatcher]

18 minutes ago, 1980gamer said:

So for all the things IE and TT did wrong.

 

The wrong marketing.

The wrong game lineup.

The wrong controllers.

The wrong physical media.

etc.

 

What would have been the right things to do.  So many here have a lot to say that is wrong, what would be correct?

 

I don't want to hear a lame PS 5 controller.  I actually completely agree about that type of controller.  I find the Original Intellivision controller to be very intuitive.  

The NES / SNES was fine also.  But The PS controller was the beginning of the end for me.  I like the analogue sticks and even 1 level of shoulder buttons.  But now we buttons all over the place.

I can get by, but I can tell you my Mom and Dad would have no chance and the played the Intellivision and even the PS.

 

They both loved the Wii.  I think if they only had bowling they would have been happy.  They even had the balance board!

 

Before we all say, it was just a bad idea.  I keep hearing here about all these other companies that have put out successful consoles over the past few years.

 

So, lets see what you've got!

- Sub $200 price point. 

- A controller with a real D-Pad and face buttons.  Toss the whole toucescreen feature out, as it just makes it more expensive and asymmetric gameplay only works well when the screens are right next to each other like the DS/3DS.  Nobody wants to look up and down while playing games. 

- No E10 rating limit, push the limit to T rated games.

- Get some real quality indie devs on board and not some kids out of College. 

- No over the top personality in charge of PR, it's not the 90s anymore, it's off putting. 

[Greg2600]

I think it's tough to criticize the project's design choices when it never made it to market.  I'm not sure if there was no pandemic, would this even have made it to retail?  Probably not.  These projects always seem to lack people with experience in the accounting department of the game industry.

[1980gamer]

9 minutes ago, SegaSnatcher said:

- Sub $200 price point. 

- A controller with a real D-Pad and face buttons.  Toss the whole toucescreen feature out, as it just makes it more expensive and asymmetric gameplay only works well when the screens are right next to each other like the DS/3DS.  Nobody wants to look up and down while playing games. 

- No E10 rating limit, push the limit to T rated games.

- Get some real quality indie devs on board and not some kids out of College. 

- No over the top personality in charge of PR, it's not the 90s anymore, it's off putting. 

Thanks,

The disc works really well.  But I get the D-pad.

I agree, face buttons!  I think the screen is not really for action games. But a game like CLUE.  I have my data, only I see it.  Or a card game type thing.  Actually, an adventure game.  I can see my inventory etc.  That would be cool.

[Albert]

I have moved this discussion to the Modern Gaming Discussion forum, after getting many requests from people to get it out of the Intellivision forum.

 

 ..Al

[Razzie.P]

5 hours ago, MrBeefy said:

However, even then some of the Amico games would still be objectionable to that crowd. (Night Stalker - gun promotion, Finnegan - wizardry/witchcraft, Tank Tanks/Missile Comman/Biplanes - war promotion).

 

 

4 hours ago, Pink said:

Don't forget Earthworm Jim was suppose to be one of the flagship titles of the console, a game with lots of reckless gun violence and crass humor.

 

 

And then there's this one --

 

[Razzie.P]

3 hours ago, 1980gamer said:

So for all the things IE and TT did wrong.

 

The wrong marketing.

The wrong game lineup.

The wrong controllers.

The wrong physical media.

etc.

 

 

The wrong marketing. -- for starters, instead of contributing thousands of posts and many hours of videos marketing to a demographic you insist is "not the target audience" or secondary audience or "not for you" or whatever the heck they kept saying,  find a forum and youtube stuff populated with whoever IS your target demographic, and hit THEM up with thousands of posts and hours of video content.

 

 

The wrong physical media -- 100% of the game should be included with the physical game.  I know today's trend is "buy the game, download the rest via day one nonsense," but since so much of their ideology was to get away from the crappiness that's "ruining games" and taking it back to the simplicity that many of us love and miss, the very least that should be expected with physical media to to actually BE physical media, not cracker jack toys and a download card.   

 

 

I don't really have any issues with proposed game lineup and controller, and willing to given them a shot.

[1980gamer]

TT did post here a lot.  But could that be he is just a retro gamer like most of us?

And he should leave the marketing to the target audience, to the marketing people.

 

I think we didn't get enough progress videos.

 

Ah, the wrong media.  So should it have been carts or discs?  Cost is a factor.  A cart port and cd/dvd/bluray drive would add to the console price. 

Disc media helps keep software cost down.  But I would have liked CARTS!  Maybe with EEPROMS or whatever the tech is today. So patching could still be done.

 

Could the cart port have been backward compatible to the Intellivision or would that have been to limiting?

Edited August 19, 2022 by 1980gamer

[MrTrust]

4 hours ago, 1980gamer said:

What would have been the right things to do.  So many here have a lot to say that is wrong, what would be correct?

 

1.  Someone's already said, and more are going to, but the price needed to be $150-$175 at most.  Anyone who doesn't think they were overpriced at over $200, let alone over $300 is out to lunch.  They might not have been competing with Nintendo, but rest assured, Nintendo would compete with them.  Once you're at $200, the relative value propositions of the Switch and Amico are not even in the same ball park.

 

2.  Have 5 Cloudy Mountains in the chute for year one.  That is to say, a slate of solid-looking games, with a house style that uses your running man brand, with appealing graphics and gameplay that is derived from the kinds of games the parents of young families grew up with, but modernized.  See the Atari Recharged series and take notes.  Their Missile Command looks good and plays like a logical extension of the old game into the 21st Century.  Amico MC looks like a wet dog smells and has controls which I can tell are bad just by looking.  Touchscreen track pads and using the disc as four buttons?  No.  Not what either of those things should be used for.

 

3.  Asymmetrical co-op.  For instance, I'm playing Finnegan Fox as the main character, and all the challenging platforming stuff is still there, but my kid gets to be the sidekick that basically can't die, has some weak attacks they can do, and they can move around really easily and collect power-ups for me.  The game is still challenging for me, and it's easy for my kid, who gets to mess around but still feel like she's really contributing to our team effort, even though it's not unbalancing the game in my favor.  See half of Nintendo's Catalog going back to, say, New Super Mario Bros.

 

4.  Make "casual" games that feel more like activities.  I actually listed several ideas in a long-gone thread off the top of my head, but one I remember was a variation on Eat Poop You Cat.  2 or more players each get one component of a scene they have to draw using their screen, which appears on the TV, and another player has to guess what it is they're all drawing collectively.  There should be games that do not require all players to have a controller.

 

4.  Make the board games actually worth getting.  For instance, do a $10 Winning Moves Games bundle with Pass the Pigs, Pretty Pretty Princess, Pay Day, and Rack-0.  Have variant playing pieces you can use.  I would pay $20 for something like that, even.  Those are commerical games that are cheap, but not ubiquitous, and will likely get lost or left at someone else's house, plus I don't like any of them enough to care about owning a physical copy.  So, there's real value there. Farkle and Hearts are great games, but are played with generic components I already have, and no value is added by having electronic versions.  This is why Cornhole was such a bad answer to Wii bowling.  Bowling is expensive and a logistical headache to get the family together for.  Cornhole is not.  One creates value, the other, not.

 

5.  Demonstrate that you're going to have at least one year's worth of games.  One of the things I told Tommy was that I felt like if they were making margins on the consoles (we now know they wouldn't, but that was initially the plan), there would be less incentive to support the machine on the software side if it wasn't a hit on launch, and that even if they got to market, the thing would likely wither on the vine since we did not see any progress being made on any of the post-launch games.

 

6.  Just stop being so full of shit.  Stop claiming to have all these big things in the works when you don't.  Stop pretending like anyone who's ever played or used a video game console before is "hardcore" and "not your demo".  Stop with the embarrassing fake-grassroots street team faux-viral greybeard YouTube clown show.  Stop answering every question, no matter how respectfully it's put, with a douchebag attitude.  Stop weasel wording your way into selling people snake oil like physical "products".

 

I would have definitely given the Amico a chance at $150 even with all the problems.  I would still have been open to it at, say $230 if I saw a solid library of games developing, which did appear to be happening early on before all of this shovelware crap showed up, and I was seeing solid commitments to have EWJ4, Tron, BurgerTime, etc. in the chamber after launch.  Even failing that, I probably would not have been so vocal against the system if Tommy, who I do think is a talented composer and a charming guy, wasn't such a douche every time I talked to him, and if the fans of the system hadn't thrown such ridiculous temper tantrums when anyone pointed out inconvenient realities.

[MrBeefy]

4 hours ago, SegaSnatcher said:

- Sub $200 price point. 

- A controller with a real D-Pad and face buttons.  Toss the whole toucescreen feature out, as it just makes it more expensive and asymmetric gameplay only works well when the screens are right next to each other like the DS/3DS.  Nobody wants to look up and down while playing games. 

- No E10 rating limit, push the limit to T rated games.

- Get some real quality indie devs on board and not some kids out of College. 

- No over the top personality in charge of PR, it's not the 90s anymore, it's off putting. 

I think this is all a great start. It's the Homer car.

 

Gut rfid, leds, and touchscreens for starters. NES-Genesis-SNES pad is simple enough though I know both kids and grandparents who can handle modern controllers just fine. OG Intv controller sucked and basing a modern controller on it was a horrible choice. Ditch the LEDs in the controller. Anything that takes attention away from the screen isn't intuitive. WiiUs controller was more capable and it still didn't do well.

 

The game line up depends on what you believe. Is it a retro console? Then stick with the retro games. If it is for casuals you need to ditch most of the current lineup. Not one matching game or anything similar.

 

For the games they have shown it shouldn't be $199 and should be lower than that. That's why people say the games look like crap. The games don't dictate that high of price. At $200 and up you are competing with other consoles that have similar and better games. You are also confident they will be around while it is unsure if IE is even potty trained.

 

And from a PR perspective don't say anything unless you have something to really show that is ready to go. Then you don't need to worry about getting caught in BS lies.

 

The game rating isn't a sticking point, but once again what is your real goal? Kids first console? Or old fart retro gamers who are scared to try something new?

 

There has never been a better time in gaming with so many options. If there isn't anything you can find then that is either your fault and being stuck in your ways, or maybe you don't actually like videogames. I never seem to lack options, be it a retro fix or modern take, or something on my phone. About the only genre you don't have much of anymore is lightgun games. Dumb flatscreens...

 

Let people port stuff and don't shoehorn in dumb stuff just to blow money or have "exclusive features". I heard the Moon Patrol multi-player was terrible and it was probably a case of we need something so more than one can play.

 

 

[MrBeefy]

14 minutes ago, MrTrust said:

and if the fans of the system hadn't thrown such ridiculous temper tantrums when anyone pointed out inconvenient realities.

Why do you think the thread got moved? 🤣

 

No problem being in that forum when everyone was all, "Tommy is doing this right. Shut up haters! Intellivision is back!"

 

Now when you can't reasonably excuse it. Please move from the Intellivision forum because I don't want to eat crow. 

 

Either way I'm fine with the move and suggested it be moved to people then saying it should belong there. But whatever. It is an interesting "study in Psych and group behavior."

 

But going back to that ITS NOT FOR YOU hardcore gamer. It was a manipulation technique to try and discredit people. The CEO didn't want any potential buyer or pigeon with money to blow articulate reasonable things. The fact people still can't see that is hilarious.

 

I am the "target demo" for Amico. Young family, who likes family get together with their huge family. Not afraid of larger games but likes simple pick up stuff. A $28 tablet is great for casual stuff for Jr Beefy and has more on it than Amico ever would, and at the same price the Switch offers more and better experiences. The wife isn't a huge gamer, but the Switch has landed perfectly with her. The Amico showed nothing for her. It is too the point that she is talking of getting a Switch Lite for herself. She has never wanted any console for herself. Anyone who says they aren't competing is out of touch. 

[+Lathe26]

Well, now that this thread is located outside the Intellivision forum, I'll probably be stopping by less often.

 

 

[Rev]

36 minutes ago, Lathe26 said:

Well, now that this thread is located outside the Intellivision forum, I'll probably be stopping by less often.

 

 

You will be back, when Amico launches!

[+Lathe26]

3 minutes ago, Rev said:

You will be back, when Amico launches!

 

[Biff Burgertime]

16 hours ago, Cebus Capucinis said:

But they'll easily sell millions due to Back Talk Party, which is clearly (A) not an incredibly bland, uninspired game concept and (B) not readily available in the mobile market and other platforms. KILLER APP.

Ohhhh THAT's what the game's called? I must've misheard the announcement, all this time I thought it was Crack Rock Party.

[Matt_B]

Smack Talk Party is certainly a game that Tommy's been playing for a very long time.

[roots.genoa]

9 hours ago, 1980gamer said:

What would have been the right things to do.  So many here have a lot to say that is wrong, what would be correct?

 

I don't want to hear a lame PS 5 controller.

I won't because I tend to agree about modern controllers. So I'll say (again) the contrary:

To me they should have released just the controller for PC, tablets, and every consoles. And to avoid people buying games without owning the controller, games could be played with a smartphone as well. That being said, to make it a success, games would have to be a lot more cool and unique™️ that what IE showed us so far. Or else everybody would play with a smartphone. MrTrust has made very good points, like "Asymmetrical co-op" for instance. It was one of the strong points of the Wii U for instance, which leads me to:

 

3 hours ago, MrBeefy said:

WiiUs controller was more capable and it still didn't do well.

Yes, but that was not the real reason for the failure imho. One of the problems was Nintendo tried to compete with the other 2 a lot more than with the Wii, so the Wii U got many more 'traditional games', including from Nintendo. And those would not use the touchscreen very well. Super Mario Maker was a very good ambassador for it and was quite successful, actually.

Edited August 19, 2022 by roots.genoa

[Matt_B]

I'll take a contrary position with controllers and say that modern console ones are actually pretty good. They are, after all, allowing games of a complexity that would previously have been PC-only, requiring keyboard and mouse, to be played on console hardware without a ludicrous amount of functionality overloaded onto all of the buttons, and the core controls hasn't changed a lot in the past quarter century either.

 

Meanwhile, if a game is simple enough, you don't necessarily have to use every last capability of them. Most 2D retro-style indie games only need a Dpad and buttons, so you can put down your DualSense and play them with a SNES-style controller if you prefer.

 

As for the Amico controller, I doubt it's good enough at that as you've got no face buttons and I doubt that the disc is going to be the greatest substitute for a Dpad. Anything that was actually designed around twin sticks is going to be utterly hopeless on it. I genuinely don't see it being much good for anything beyond what you could just play on a mobile phone, to be honest. Even with the Wiimote you could just turn it sideways and you'd basically have a NES controller.

[roots.genoa]

Actually, what bothers me the most about modern controllers are:

1. 4 shoulder buttons are too many for me. I understand triggers are different from shoulder buttons and can be used in different situations; that's why some gamers claim you're not supposed to use the 4 at once, but I know many games that expect you to do so unfortunately. I find crazy that a game like FIFA is supposed to be very popular among casual gamers when you need to be an octopus to play that thing. 🤔
2. I hate analog stick clicks (L3 and R3 as they're called on PlayStation controllers). They're not reliable and it's especially difficult to click on them without hitting a direction as well. On the other hand, holding them to crouch or run is not very comfortable either. In survival horror games, I tend to panic (that's the point) so I often end up crouching while trying to aim. 😒 Which is totally what you want to do when you're in front of an ugly monster. 🙃
3. D-pads are often an afterthought and leave to be desired... It's getting better but Xbox 360's controller d-pad was atrocious; it made some games almost unplayable. I remember especially in Völgarr where you was supposed to hold up to use the secondary weapon a la Castlevania, so your character would always turn back to the left at the same time. 😩