Intellivision Amico’s trademark changed to ‘abandoned’

[Cebus Capucinis]

They may compete to YOU, but they don't compete to ME.....

 

[MrTrust]

18 hours ago, roots.genoa said:

And you're absolutely right but, when you think about it, Nintendo games on Wii tried to use the motion controls: Mario Galaxy did it slightly, both Zelda did it A LOT, Mario Kart had the wheel, Other M (which was not successful though) was very experimental with its controls. On the Wii U, the Mario game was very traditional (the only new feature being the Mario suit) for instance, and there were games catering a lot more to gamers like Bayonetta 1&2 and Hyrule Warriors. And a game like Star Fox Zero that tried to use the GamePad extensively was not very popular... That's why I still think that Super Mario Maker and, to a lesser extent Nintendo Land, were really the Nintendo games that made the Wii U relevant. If Super Mario Maker had been there on launch, maybe the Wii U would have fare better; we'll never know of course.

 

Eh, maybe.  Skyward Sword I suppose you could say the motion controls are a sine qua non.  I don't think that could be said about any of those other games.  I'd still maintain it's just a difference in quality, ultimately.  Galaxy 2, for example, is pretty widely recognized as one of the best games, not just on the Wii, not just of its type, but of that generation, period.  Maybe even all-time.  That game is going to be on Top 100 Games of All Time lists for decades to come.
 

I just got Star Fox Zero recently, and it was really fun to play co-op with my daughter.  That scheme for 2-players should not work, and if you just described it to me, I would say it was a terrible idea, but it totally works.  Midway through the game, she put down the controller and started clapping say "Wow!  This game is really fun!"  Which it totally was... for the one sitting that it lasted before we beat it.

It's not that any of the Wii U catalog were bad games; they just didn't have the meat on the bone that the Wii catalog did.  Hyrule Warriors, Nintendo Land, Captain Toad, etc.  It's like that Zebra gum: super sweet up front but loses its flavor very quickly.

 

17 hours ago, MrBeefy said:

While I get what you are saying. Forums are not the same as literally being in the same room. There is a choice in reading. Heck I have people muted who participate in this thread and get to choose when I read them or not. You mentioned posting in Switch a lot. Just because there is a thread there doesn't mean I have to check it. 🤷‍♀️

 

Yeah, for this thread it doesn't matter because there's little overlap between the people who want to talk about the original Intellivision and the Amico, but this argument would not have held water back when the Amico sub was active.  We were in every single thread, trashing every single aspect of this thing.  You know we did; we were both there.  You can mute all the people you want; the other people you didn't mute are going to respond to them and they're going to dominate the conversation no matter what you do on your end.

 

Like I said, IE totally deserved their merciless roasting and their boosters brought a lot of the negativity on themselves, but there is an implicit understanding that these are fan forums, not a forum to debate the merit of the thing.  Like I said, I like the 8-bit Atari computers.  If every thread in that sub had a bunch of C64 partisans slagging it off all the time, that would severely impact the usefulness of the sub to me, a fan of the machines.

 

Now, the Amico wasn't out, isn't out, and likely never will be, so there essentially is no substantive Amico conversation to be had for us to ruin, but I don't think it's unreasonable for the fans to find it annoying and want it somewhat managed.

 

3 hours ago, mr_me said:

If, for some people, they are competing with Nintendo/Xbox/PS that's fine because the company is not expecting to sell fifty million units.  They are not depending on grabbing market share from other consoles. Retailers seemed to be onboard with a $250 price.  Supposedly that's where the number came from as an upper limit if they were to be at retail.

Well, I'm the prospective customer and I'm not on board with it, so the retailers can be on board with shipping their unsold stock back to IE and getting reimbursed.  If I were just speaking for me, or for a minority view, we wouldn't be having this conversation. 

 

Yeah, you're not grabbing market share from other companies; you're depending on being a second console purchase, which means you have to be significantly cheaper than the first console purchase, and at $250, they were not.  Oh, but they're not going to be a secondary console, right?  80% of their customers won't have any other console except the Wii, right?  There's this big, big, BIG $8 billion addressable market out there who don't buy video game consoles and not at all knowledgeable about video game consoles that we're going to sell our console to.  People that Nintendo and Microsoft and Sony can't attract or retain with their millions and millions of dollars in advertising because they're so incompetent, but that Big Brain Tommy is going to be able to reach with his brilliant Mom Blog strategy.

Right?  That's basically what we are required to believe in order to accept the IE line.  That, or for some inexplicable reason known only to them, Nintendo and Sony and Microsoft just don't want to sell products to that $8 billion dollar market.  Either way, it's a caved-in head stupid thing to believe, and you can rationalize it to the ends of the Earth, but it is still a stupid idea, and a failed idea because it is so stupid.  It's 2022; if you haven't bought a video game console at this point in your life despite the million different opportunities, it is because you have rejected video game consoles as a product, not because you haven't been "messaged" to hard enough.  This fingers-in-the-ears insistence that they're not playing in the same sandbox as Nintendo is total, utter, complete, unalloyed, unadored, undeniable bullshit.  It isn't your sandbox.  You didn't build it.  You don't get to decide who's playing in it and who isn't.  Customers compare these kinds of products to each other; this is established human behavior that doesn't stop applying on IE's say-so.

 

3 hours ago, mr_me said:

Maybe the Amico launch library isn't good enough

 

Fixed.  No, it isn't good enough.  Since, as you would like us to have it, buying a console is not an implicit promise for at least 2, more likely 4-7 years of software support (you know, a weird idea I got from 90% of consoles going back to the Atari 2600), but rather just a ticket to play the launch lineup, then you need a $250 launch lineup.

 

Is Shark Shark! and Evel Kneivel and Cornhole and Finnegan Fox and Farkle a $250 launch lineup?  It is not.  It is a collection of little games that I can put together myself with devices I already have lying around for a fraction of that price.

 

Edited August 20, 2022 by MrTrust

[roots.genoa]

13 minutes ago, Cebus Capucinis said:

They may compete to YOU, but they don't compete to ME.....

What you guys fail to understand is that the Amico doesn't exist in the same space-time than the big 3. In Amico's dimension:

• Shark! Shark! is an awesome game that people still want to play today
• EarthWorm Jim is the longest running video game franchise, especially since Nintendo finally stopped making Mario games (everybody hated them anyway)
• Tommy Tallarico is the best video game composer alive
• Cornhole is the number one sport in the world
• It's a miracle the NES sold like hotcakes
• The Jaguar was released with the JagCD and crushed both the Saturn and the PlayStation; it's still so popular that the brand new Xbox Series J uses the Jaguar shell (Sony never released a second system and they went back to make Walkmans only)
• Ellen still has a show on TV
• Every Switch game features child porn, there's even a Nintendo seal of depravity™️ for that
• The Switch has 126 buttons and costs $1500 without any controller. Also the game stop every 5 seconds for a patch update and to sell you a loot box.

[+GoldLeader]

8 minutes ago, roots.genoa said:

What you guys fail to understand is that the Amico doesn't exist in the same space-time than the big 3. In Amico's dimension:

• Shark! Shark! is an awesome game that people still want to play today
• EarthWorm Jim is the longest running video game franchise, especially since Nintendo finally stopped making Mario games (everybody hated them anyway)
• Tommy Tallarico is the best video game composer alive
• Cornhole is the number one sport in the world
• It's a miracle the NES sold like hotcakes
• The Jaguar was released with the JagCD and crushed both the Saturn and the PlayStation; it's still so popular that the brand new Xbox Series J uses the Jaguar shell (Sony never released a second system and they went back to make Walkmans only)
• Ellen still has a show on TV
• Every Switch game features child porn, there's even a Nintendo seal of depravity™️ for that
• The Switch has 126 buttons and costs $1500 without any controller. Also the game stop every 5 seconds for a patch update and to sell you a loot box.

^Hey!

 

That's what I was gonna say!  LOL!

 

 

Seriously,  Great Job Roots!

 

I started laughing so much at one point I nearly blasted coffee out of my nose!

 

 

 

 

 

 

                        

 

 

 

 

[Cebus Capucinis]

42 minutes ago, roots.genoa said:

 

• Shark! Shark! is an awesome game that people still want to play today
• It's a miracle the NES sold like hotcakes

 

The Amico dimension is just like ours in some ways!

 

[SegaSnatcher]

1 hour ago, roots.genoa said:

What you guys fail to understand is that the Amico doesn't exist in the same space-time than the big 3. In Amico's dimension:

• Shark! Shark! is an awesome game that people still want to play today
• EarthWorm Jim is the longest running video game franchise, especially since Nintendo finally stopped making Mario games (everybody hated them anyway)
• Tommy Tallarico is the best video game composer alive
• Cornhole is the number one sport in the world
• It's a miracle the NES sold like hotcakes
• The Jaguar was released with the JagCD and crushed both the Saturn and the PlayStation; it's still so popular that the brand new Xbox Series J uses the Jaguar shell (Sony never released a second system and they went back to make Walkmans only)
• Ellen still has a show on TV
• Every Switch game features child porn, there's even a Nintendo seal of depravity™️ for that
• The Switch has 126 buttons and costs $1500 without any controller. Also the game stop every 5 seconds for a patch update and to sell you a loot box.

We knew I.E. was living in a bubble from the very beginning.  The initial unveiling of this project came off like satire or parody.  Like it was something I could see Devolver Digital making as a joke.

They did something like that in this video.  I love how the guy was punished for being overly critical of the console....
 

 

Edited August 20, 2022 by SegaSnatcher

[MrWaffles]

5 hours ago, mr_me said:

I was surprised to hear Amico Night Stalker is not 3D.  You can hear the developer talk about it in this video.

 

At what time stamp does he say it's not 3D?

[Pink]

On 8/18/2022 at 4:43 PM, mr_me said:

It's really only a flagship title for Earthworm Jim fans.  Very little work had been done on the game and wasn't expected for at least a year after system release.  If it were to be a great game, the name and characters don't make a whole lot of difference.

It very much was expected to be a flagship at the start of this whole fiasco and one of the "heavy hitters" that Intellivision initially unveiled and ran with to drum up support for this whole disaster. But yes, you are correct, they later pivoted to garbage shovelware, mobile phone style games, and now all these years later it's apparent that Earthworm Jim was more than likely nothing but vaporware aside from the Jim running animation they made just to drum up some initial hype at the start.

 

Now I can't even find that running Jim video from Intellivision or their teaser trailer on the official Intellivision Amico YouTube page, bwahahahahaha

Edited August 20, 2022 by Pink

[SegaSnatcher]

2 hours ago, MrTrust said:

Like I said, IE totally deserved their merciless roasting and their boosters brought a lot of the negativity on themselves, but there is an implicit understanding that these are fan forums, not a forum to debate the merit of the thing.

I think any healthy gaming forum can/should have both.  You should be able to acknowledge both the things you like about a certain piece of hardware or game while also laying out the things you don't like about them.  

IMHO, any forum that lacks debate is what we call an echo chamber.  No gaming project should be off limits for people to debate over and that includes debating the merit of something.  A question like "Why does the Amico even need to exist" is not an unreasonable question. 

Then again, perhaps I'm misunderstanding you, which is very possible. 
 

[MrTrust]

55 minutes ago, SegaSnatcher said:

I think any healthy gaming forum can/should have both.  You should be able to acknowledge both the things you like about a certain piece of hardware or game while also laying out the things you don't like about them.  

IMHO, any forum that lacks debate is what we call an echo chamber.  No gaming project should be off limits for people to debate over and that includes debating the merit of something.  A question like "Why does the Amico even need to exist" is not an unreasonable question. 

Then again, perhaps I'm misunderstanding you, which is very possible. 
 

 

Meh, I think open debate is 18th century Claptrap, tbh.  All that happens when a group allows it is one faction crowds its rivals out and then bullies everyone into either conformity or silence.  Rarely does that victory have anything to do with the strength of their arguments in debates.  If that sub hadn't been nuked, it just would have turned into the Make Fun of Intellivison and Hunt Mr. Me for Sport Club.

 

Now, ultimately one side is right and the other is wrong, so I think the one that is right should be privileged over the other.  I'm just saying, given the general disposition of the forums over many years, it's not crazy for anyone to have assumed the system-specific sub would be a de facto enthusiast's space, and for their butts to be chapped when there ended up being more naysayers than anything else, and I could see why the INTV forum users would want this particular banlieue out of their neighborhood.

[SegaSnatcher]

3 minutes ago, MrTrust said:

 

Meh, I think open debate is 18th century Claptrap, tbh.  All that happens when a group allows it is one faction crowds its rivals out and then bullies everyone into either conformity or silence.  Rarely does that victory have anything to do with the strength of their arguments in debates.  If that sub hadn't been nuked, it just would have turned into the Make Fun of Intellivison and Hunt Mr. Me for Sport Club.

 

Now, ultimately one side is right and the other is wrong, so I think the one that is right should be privileged over the other.  I'm just saying, given the general disposition of the forums over many years, it's not crazy for anyone to have assumed the system-specific sub would be a de facto enthusiast's space, and for their butts to be chapped when there ended up being more naysayers than anything else, and I could see why the INTV forum users would want this particular banlieue out of their neighborhood.

Oh, I take no issue with this thread being moved to the modern gaming section, especially given where this project currently is at.  I actually feel for OG INTV fans who feel this project has tainted the Intellivision name.  I mean I would be incredibly upset if someone bought out Sega and tried to put out a project like this using the Sega name. I do think it must be said that criticising Amico is not the same as criticising Intellivision as a whole.  I think a lot of us here who have criticized the Amico are likely fans of the original Intellivision. 

I also don't think anyone is hunting Mr_Me.  He's an adult who choses to interact in these types of threads and I say more power to him. I'm actually glad there are people like him with an opposing view in this thread, even if I think he tends to be a contrarian just for the sake of debate. I do question the sincerity of some of the things he says, but he's at least consistent and respectful, so that goes a long way for me. 

[mr_me]

6 hours ago, digdugnate said:

I thought they weren't competing with the other consoles.  I'm confused now.

 

5 hours ago, SegaSnatcher said:

Switch is not the Call of Duty box.  In fact there isn't even a single Call of Duty game on Switch.    mr_me is absolutely wrong saying Switch isn't direct competition with the Switch, just like Tommy was wrong when he said the same thing. 
 

 

5 hours ago, Cebus Capucinis said:

They may compete to YOU, but they don't compete to ME.....

I'm saying it's fine if they are competing with Nintento/Xbox/PS.  They aren't trying to sell fifty million consoles.  Even if they are successful, the other three would barely notice any difference in their market share.

 

3 hours ago, MrWaffles said:

At what time stamp does he say it's not 3D?

About 55min.

 

46 minutes ago, SegaSnatcher said:

Oh, I take no issue with this thread being moved to the modern gaming section, especially given where this project currently is at.  I actually feel for OG INTV fans who feel this project has tainted the Intellivision name.  I mean I would be incredibly upset if someone bought out Sega and tried to put out a project like this using the Sega name. I do think it must be said that criticising Amico is not the same as criticising Intellivision as a whole.  I think a lot of us here who have criticized the Amico are likely fans of the original Intellivision. 

Most of the people in the Amico discussion on Atariage aren't regulars of the Intellivision section.  It was the same with the original Q&A thread which was rightfully moved out of there, as I suggested it should more than three years ago.

Edited August 20, 2022 by mr_me

[SegaSnatcher]

43 minutes ago, mr_me said:

I'm saying it's fine if they are competing with Nintento/Xbox/PS.  They aren't trying to sell fifty million consoles.  Even if they are successful, the other three would barely notice any difference in their market share.

 

Most of the people in the Amico discussion on Atariage aren't regulars of the Intellivision section.  It was the same with the original Q&A thread which was rightfully moved out of there, as I suggested it should more than three years ago.

It doesn't matter if I.E. are only trying to sell 300 - 500K units, they are still competing for the same market Switch already caters to.  This idea that there is a market of families who want a console, but passed on Switch doesn't really exist outside some super strict religious families, and even then I don't think those more strict households would see Amico as an option given some of the content.  Someone else actually mentioned this already in this very thread. 

I agree, the Amico brought in people who wouldn't normally participate in the Intellivision forum, but that doesn't mean they don't like the OG Intellivision.  I like the OG Intellivision, but it wouldn't be on my top 5 favorite systems or anything, I'm more like a casual fan of it. I'll play it on my MiSTer from time to time. 

Edited August 20, 2022 by SegaSnatcher

[mr_me]

If Nintendo are the only ones catering to that market than there should be another.

[SegaSnatcher]

10 minutes ago, mr_me said:

If Nintendo are the only ones catering to that market than there should be another.

Absolutely, as long as said company can cater to families as well or better than Nintendo does, especially if they are selling a console at the same price point as a Switch.  

 

[+5-11under]

4 minutes ago, SegaSnatcher said:

Absolutely, as long as said company can cater to families as well or better than Nintendo does, especially if they are selling a console at the same price point as a Switch.  

And as long as said company can put out a product.

[MrTrust]

41 minutes ago, mr_me said:

I'm saying it's fine if they are competing with Nintento/Xbox/PS.  They aren't trying to sell fifty million consoles.  Even if they are successful, the other three would barely notice any difference in their market share.

 

Dude, do you not understand what a competing product is?  If two products are essentially interchangeable, they are competing wholly independently of the intentions of the producers.  Yes, a Rolls Royce Phantom is a competing product with a Subaru Crosstrek.  Fortunately for Subaru, there are smooth people who can't afford a Rolls Royce that they can sell a lot of cars.  If the two cars were priced similarly, only a sucker would choose the Subaru.   The Amico is priced similarly (or would be) to the Switch.  They're both available (or would have been) from the same sorts of retailers.  They both have "family friendly" brands.  Consumers are going to compare the two machines.  

 

Product competition is not pro wrestling, where you have to call your opponent out and trash talk them, then a bell had to ring.  When you have two similar products next to each other in a shelf, these competing be default, and competition is mutual.  No, IE can't take a bite out of Nintendo's market share, but Nintendo can take a bite out of IE's.

 

17 minutes ago, mr_me said:

If Nintendo are the only ones catering to that market than there should be another.

 

Why?  Video game consoles are one of the easiest products to live without in all of human existence.  So what if there's a few facto Monopoly on one particular flavor of video game console?

[MrBeefy]

32 minutes ago, MrTrust said:

 

Dude, do you not understand what a competing product is?  If two products are essentially interchangeable, they are competing wholly independently of the intentions of the producers.  Yes, a Rolls Royce Phantom is a competing product with a Subaru Crosstrek.  Fortunately for Subaru, there are smooth people who can't afford a Rolls Royce that they can sell a lot of cars.  If the two cars were priced similarly, only a sucker would choose the Subaru.   The Amico is priced similarly (or would be) to the Switch.  They're both available (or would have been) from the same sorts of retailers.  They both have "family friendly" brands.  Consumers are going to compare the two machines.  

This 100%. I didn't own a Switch when this all started. Price kept going up. When it got to like $200-$230 the wife said get a Switch. None of the Amico stuff that they showed interested her. She told me to go buy a Switch instead because she knew she would like Animal Crossing.

 

Now we have had it for some time and she plays in handheld so much she would rather buy another Switch (specifically Lite) than an Amico (under the assumption it comes out). Still too expensive with no real games of interest.

 

The not competing line is just nonsense. That premise is IE relying on consumers being idiots and not comparing. That is essentially their target market by saying that.

 

This is why TT would do anything to blast the Switch. He knew it was competing and couldn't show a reason why the Amico was better. Talk is cheap and TT was all talk.

[mr_me]

1 hour ago, 5-11under said:

And as long as said company can put out a product.

If you don't try than for sure there's no product.  You have to try,  If there were nobody willing to risk failure, the world would look a lot different.

 

1 hour ago, MrTrust said:

 

Dude, do you not understand what a competing product is?  If two products are essentially interchangeable, they are competing wholly independently of the intentions of the producers.  Yes, a Rolls Royce Phantom is a competing product with a Subaru Crosstrek.  Fortunately for Subaru, there are smooth people who can't afford a Rolls Royce that they can sell a lot of cars.  If the two cars were priced similarly, only a sucker would choose the Subaru.   The Amico is priced similarly (or would be) to the Switch.  They're both available (or would have been) from the same sorts of retailers.  They both have "family friendly" brands.  Consumers are going to compare the two machines.  

 

Product competition is not pro wrestling, where you have to call your opponent out and trash talk them, then a bell had to ring.  When you have two similar products next to each other in a shelf, these competing be default, and competition is mutual.  No, IE can't take a bite out of Nintendo's market share, but Nintendo can take a bite out of IE's.

 

 

Why?  Video game consoles are one of the easiest products to live without in all of human existence.  So what if there's a few facto Monopoly on one particular flavor of video game console?

There are distinguishing characteristics, from the controller to the curated game library to art/audio style.  It's okay that consumers will compare.  A new competitor would be starting from zero, so it can't lose market share.

 

Nintendo already catering to that market isn't a reason for someone else not to try,.

Edited August 20, 2022 by mr_me

[1980gamer]

10 hours ago, zapzapzac said:

I asked you to logically explain the following: "Starbucks is to Coke just as much as Amico is to the Big 3." That's a statement you provided, I asked clarification on. You then bring up the "call of duty" crowd. What am I supposed to think? The Call of Duty crowd is not a console or console maker. Your statement has not been clarified.

What I think you're attempting to hint at is that "the big 3" equals the "Call of Duty" crowd. Which is beyond confusing. So again, please clarify what you mean.

Okay, for the 3rd graders....

The SWITCH... IS a direct competitor.

Sony and MS consoles are a different group.  SOME will play all types of games ( crossover )  

 

Is that simple enough.  Or are you actually simpler than that?

 

READ the whole thing.  Not just bits and pieces and jump to a conclusion. 

 

I guess reading comprehension is no longer a priority in our schools.

[+5-11under]

1 hour ago, 5-11under said:

And as long as said company can put out a product.

16 minutes ago, mr_me said:

If you don't try than for sure there's no product.  You have to try,  If there were nobody willing to risk failure, the world would look a lot different.

You're just supposed to laugh. That's all.

[1980gamer]

8 hours ago, SegaSnatcher said:

10 hours ago, 1980gamer said:

Not so much the switch...  But You really think Shark Shark players are coming from the Call of duty crowd?

 

Crossover, of course.  Just like people that drink coffee and coke.

Switch is not the Call of Duty box.  In fact there isn't even a single Call of Duty game on Switch.    mr_me is absolutely wrong saying Switch isn't direct competition with the Switch, just like Tommy was wrong when he said the same thing. 
 

RIGHT.  SWITCH IS NOT THE CALL OF DUTY BOX.  Thus, "Not so much the switch..."  Switch owners may be interested in the same stuff Amico is doing. IE shark shark.  NOT the Call of duty crowd. 

They are not interested in switch or amico.  Of course some people like every type of game. Crossover.

[+5-11under]

I think we all get it. There is very direct competition (Coke vs. Pepsi), and there is somewhat less direct competition (Coke vs. tap water), and even less direct competition (Coke vs. $4000 wine, or perhaps Coke vs. roll of tape, or Coke v Ferrari - see what I did there? ).

[Cebus Capucinis]

I don't get it. I think we'll need at least 3-4 more pages before I'll understand it. Nevermind the fact I'm sure we'll get 3-4 more pages of it no matter the case.

[1980gamer]

10 hours ago, zapzapzac said:

I asked you to logically explain the following: "Starbucks is to Coke just as much as Amico is to the Big 3." That's a statement you provided, I asked clarification on. You then bring up the "call of duty" crowd. What am I supposed to think? The Call of Duty crowd is not a console or console maker. Your statement has not been clarified.

What I think you're attempting to hint at is that "the big 3" equals the "Call of Duty" crowd. Which is beyond confusing. So again, please clarify what you mean.

What I think you're attempting to hint at is that "the big 3" equals the "Call of Duty" crowd. Which is beyond confusing. So again, please clarify what you mean.

No, just PS and MS.  The switch is a definite competitor.  Actually, Would Nintendo consider Amico a competitor, is a better question.

 

So, now, go back and read your first post in the chain and then my response right after that, so the answer is in context.  It should not be confusing!