Intellivision Amico’s trademark changed to ‘abandoned’

[phoenixdownita]

1 hour ago, mr_me said:

Regarding the fcc sticker on the units out for field testing, my opinion is not without reasons.  The image below is what people here presented as the relevant FCC rule.  First thing is that because the Amico is a wifi/bluetooth device the SDoC procedure doesn't apply to it.  It requires certification, and the certification procedure requires an fcc id label on the shipping product. The sticker on the prototypes simply shows what it will look like, the fcc id number is not fake, it is zero, indicating it's not an fcc id number at all.  Second, is that these rules applies to product, the word "product" is used rather than "device".  The units that are out for field testing are the property of the company, and not end-user products. 

.....

All righty mate .. let's see how it is done:

 

 

you go.

 

The above is from a prototype XB360 controller, no "pretensies", no need to show how the label would look like, no hugs and kisses/hugs and kisses/kisses kisses kisses  [aka XOXOOOO] fake id ... just to jog your selective memory on the Amico ctrl label:

 

There's a reason why you can't have "pretensies" or make-believe labels and serious companies clearly indicate everything ... but of course you will make up some other plausible deniability rationalization on why "it's OK, not a problem" or divert the attention from your statements about it to something else ... you only recently changed your tune on the fact they ain't manufacturing jack but up until 6mo ago or maybe even less it was all "expected" according to you.

 

 

PS: Wrt the proto XB360 ctrl, about 15-ish years ago my wife to be was experiencing issues with one of her 360 controllers bundled with a XB360 Elite (I bought it for her birthday as she was a huge Halo fan), it would keep disconnecting. At that time, 15-ish years ago, I had one since long lost acquaintance that worked on MS XB360 HW ctrl team and one day hearing my complaints rather unexpectedly he wanted the faulty ctrl back for studying it and we got a prototype in return to ensure it solved our woes (happy soon to be wife -> happy soon to be life .. you know), a couple of months later if that the proto became std inside the console packaging ... there's nothing to the proto afaict aside the very clear "this is a prototype" label (with clear statement to the lack of FCC compliance) and a shiny XB-button vs the "satin" of earlier versions.

[digdugnate]

4 hours ago, mr_me said:

What's your point here.  I have little expectation that they can release a console.  But the reason isn't because they don't have certifications, that's the least of their problems.  There's no point in getting certifications for the hardware unless they know they can get it manufactured.

 

Regarding the fcc sticker on the units out for field testing, my opinion is not without reasons.  The image below is what people here presented as the relevant FCC rule.  First thing is that because the Amico is a wifi/bluetooth device the SDoC procedure doesn't apply to it.  It requires certification, and the certification procedure requires an fcc id label on the shipping product. The sticker on the prototypes simply shows what it will look like, the fcc id number is not fake, it is zero, indicating it's not an fcc id number at all.  Second, is that these rules applies to product, the word "product" is used rather than "device".  The units that are out for field testing are the property of the company, and not end-user products. 

 

More important than the sticker is if the fcc allows these types of field market testing with uncertified units.  And if they do, the testers should be made aware they're not certified, whether the stickers are there or not.

 

 

you really are gonna die on this hill, huh. 😅

[+x=usr(1536)]

33 minutes ago, digdugnate said:

you really are gonna die on this hill, huh. 😅

He already has.  The zombie corpse keeps rising, though.

[mr_me]

3 hours ago, phoenixdownita said:

All righty mate .. let's see how it is done:

 

 

you go.

 

The above is from a prototype XB360 controller, no "pretensies", no need to show how the label would look like, no hugs and kisses/hugs and kisses/kisses kisses kisses  [aka XOXOOOO] fake id ... just to jog your selective memory on the Amico ctrl label:

 

There's a reason why you can't have "pretensies" or make-believe labels and serious companies clearly indicate everything ... but of course you will make up some other plausible deniability rationalization on why "it's OK, not a problem" or divert the attention from your statements about it to something else ... you only recently changed your tune on the fact they ain't manufacturing jack but up until 6mo ago or maybe even less it was all "expected" according to you.

 

 

PS: Wrt the proto XB360 ctrl, about 15-ish years ago my wife to be was experiencing issues with one of her 360 controllers bundled with a XB360 Elite (I bought it for her birthday as she was a huge Halo fan), it would keep disconnecting. At that time, 15-ish years ago, I had one since long lost acquaintance that worked on MS XB360 HW ctrl team and one day hearing my complaints rather unexpectedly he wanted the faulty ctrl back for studying it and we got a prototype in return to ensure it solved our woes (happy soon to be wife -> happy soon to be life .. you know), a couple of months later if that the proto became std inside the console packaging ... there's nothing to the proto afaict aside the very clear "this is a prototype" label (with clear statement to the lack of FCC compliance) and a shiny XB-button vs the "satin" of earlier versions.

There's no comparison between the two companies.  I'm not about to dig through all the fcc rules, but it could be the fcc requires that temporary label shown on that microsoft device on all prototypes, but it wasn't part of the image from the fcc document that was shown here.  The same information can be part of the field market test agreement.

 

Since they dismantled the company in early/mid 2022, expectations of any release has gone way down.

[82-T/A]

3 hours ago, phoenixdownita said:

 

 

There's a reason why you can't have "pretensies" or make-believe labels and serious companies clearly indicate everything ... but of course you will make up some other plausible deniability rationalization on why "it's OK, not a problem" or divert the attention from your statements about it to something else ... you only recently changed your tune on the fact they ain't manufacturing jack but up until 6mo ago or maybe even less it was all "expected" according to you.

 

 

PS: Wrt the proto XB360 ctrl, about 15-ish years ago my wife to be was experiencing issues with one of her 360 controllers bundled with a XB360 Elite (I bought it for her birthday as she was a huge Halo fan), it would keep disconnecting. At that time, 15-ish years ago, I had one since long lost acquaintance that worked on MS XB360 HW ctrl team and one day hearing my complaints rather unexpectedly he wanted the faulty ctrl back for studying it and we got a prototype in return to ensure it solved our woes (happy soon to be wife -> happy soon to be life .. you know), a couple of months later if that the proto became std inside the console packaging ... there's nothing to the proto afaict aside the very clear "this is a prototype" label (with clear statement to the lack of FCC compliance) and a shiny XB-button vs the "satin" of earlier versions.

 

This is interesting... I actually have a law degree, so I should probably make the effort to figure this out. The question I have is under what authority does the FCC have to mandate that every device that involves some form of communication, require an FCC certification? FCC is under the power of the Executive Branch, and their "laws" are regulations that are defined through a commission, and are not officially law by means of the Legislative Branch. This means they are more or less arbitrary, and often times the Supreme Court strikes down agency "law" because they feel it's overreach (happens multiple times every Supreme Court judicial cycle). That said, like the European Union (with CE), the United States requires "compliance" certification with the FCC so that it conforms to frequency standards. This is not a tall order since everything in that device is already using hardware and chips (my guess) that have already been approved previously.

 

The Microsoft label stating that it's a prototype and not FCC compliant is probably overboard, but most lawyers are also risk adjudicators and probably went nuts and insisted that this go on, rather than any kind of actual regulatory requirement to do so.

 

I'm certainly not advocating that Amico is coming out, just enjoying this small debate. When I get some time, I'll look it up... but my guess is that anything produced under a certain amount likely doesn't require certification. Government has all kinds of exceptions for this to "do no harm" on small businesses and start-ups. For example... you can build a brand new 1967 Mustang GT Fastback with all brand new parts from Goodmark Industries (including new frame). So long as fewer than 500 of them are made, they don't require modern crash test ratings. So that's a similar exception to the NHTSA.

 

 

 

[mr_me]

33 minutes ago, 82-T/A said:

 

This is interesting... I actually have a law degree, so I should probably make the effort to figure this out. The question I have is under what authority does the FCC have to mandate that every device that involves some form of communication, require an FCC certification? FCC is under the power of the Executive Branch, and their "laws" are regulations that are defined through a commission, and are not officially law by means of the Legislative Branch. This means they are more or less arbitrary, and often times the Supreme Court strikes down agency "law" because they feel it's overreach (happens multiple times every Supreme Court judicial cycle). That said, like the European Union (with CE), the United States requires "compliance" certification with the FCC so that it conforms to frequency standards. This is not a tall order since everything in that device is already using hardware and chips (my guess) that have already been approved previously.

 

The Microsoft label stating that it's a prototype and not FCC compliant is probably overboard, but most lawyers are also risk adjudicators and probably went nuts and insisted that this go on, rather than any kind of actual regulatory requirement to do so.

 

I'm certainly not advocating that Amico is coming out, just enjoying this small debate. When I get some time, I'll look it up... but my guess is that anything produced under a certain amount likely doesn't require certification. Government has all kinds of exceptions for this to "do no harm" on small businesses and start-ups. For example... you can build a brand new 1967 Mustang GT Fastback with all brand new parts from Goodmark Industries (including new frame). So long as fewer than 500 of them are made, they don't require modern crash test ratings. So that's a similar exception to the NHTSA.

 

 

 

I think the FCC is mandated in the US to regulate the airwaves.  If one prototype is found to interfere with others communication, they should have the authority to stop it.  The question is does the FCC permit this kind of field market testing with uncertified devices and under what conditions.

Edited June 22, 2023 by mr_me

[Bill Loguidice]

7 hours ago, MarioMan88 said:

I’m happy you are getting something back, my friend sent 6 emails. Can’t even get a response.

paypal@intellivisionentertainment.com is what has worked for me and others. I provided as much detail as I could.

[Cebus Capucinis]

I have many thoughts, most of which I shouldn't share.

[MrBeefy]

17 hours ago, roots.genoa said:

We have been wondering that for years. 🙂

Remember the days they were acting like fans of the fan?

6 hours ago, phoenixdownita said:

All righty mate .. let's see how it is done:

 

 

you go.

 

The above is from a prototype XB360 controller, no "pretensies", no need to show how the label would look like, no hugs and kisses/hugs and kisses/kisses kisses kisses  [aka XOXOOOO] fake id ... just to jog your selective memory on the Amico ctrl label:

 

There's a reason why you can't have "pretensies" or make-believe labels and serious companies clearly indicate everything ... but of course you will make up some other plausible deniability rationalization on why "it's OK, not a problem" or divert the attention from your statements about it to something else ... you only recently changed your tune on the fact they ain't manufacturing jack but up until 6mo ago or maybe even less it was all "expected" according to you.

 

 

PS: Wrt the proto XB360 ctrl, about 15-ish years ago my wife to be was experiencing issues with one of her 360 controllers bundled with a XB360 Elite (I bought it for her birthday as she was a huge Halo fan), it would keep disconnecting. At that time, 15-ish years ago, I had one since long lost acquaintance that worked on MS XB360 HW ctrl team and one day hearing my complaints rather unexpectedly he wanted the faulty ctrl back for studying it and we got a prototype in return to ensure it solved our woes (happy soon to be wife -> happy soon to be life .. you know), a couple of months later if that the proto became std inside the console packaging ... there's nothing to the proto afaict aside the very clear "this is a prototype" label (with clear statement to the lack of FCC compliance) and a shiny XB-button vs the "satin" of earlier versions.

That looks like a fake FCC ID right there on that Amico controller.

 

If they just wanted to do a mock sticker. They could have done it without all the icons of certs they didn't have.

1 hour ago, Bill Loguidice said:

paypal@intellivisionentertainment.com is what has worked for me and others. I provided as much detail as I could.

This is for you and others trying to get refunds. If you have a Gmail, you can get an extension called boomerang. If the person you send it too doesn't open it, it will resend it until they do. It should also let you know when they open it.

38 minutes ago, Cebus Capucinis said:

I have many thoughts, most of which I shouldn't share.

This is an Amico thread. Tommy has shown that Amico is all about talking about amd saying things one shouldn't.

 

SO SHARE AWAY!

 

[Razzie.P]

2 hours ago, 82-T/A said:

This is not a tall order since everything in that device is already using hardware and chips (my guess) that have already been approved previously.

 

 

 

Which makes it more impressive that they actually managed to fail the certification, I suppose.

 

At least I think they failed.   Not sure anymore.  Lines are blurred between they failed/they passed/Cletus in "sanitation" said they could pass/etc

 

 

 

 

1 hour ago, Cebus Capucinis said:

I have many thoughts, most of which I shouldn't share.

Are most of those thoughts about the Great European Buffet Incident?

[MrBeefy]

31 minutes ago, Razzie.P said:

At least I think they failed.   Not sure anymore.  Lines are blurred between they failed/they passed/Cletus in "sanitation" said they could pass/etc

Gabe Phan on reddit said they failed testing. He also said they fixed some things and IF it had been retested WOULD/SHOULD have passed. (Meaning they failed and never retested).

 

Gabe's statements came after mrme's Cletus in sanitation telling him they passed that he likes to hold onto. There is no prelims with these tests. You pass or fail. No partial credit.

 

 

Well this is what the FCC says about use of logos.

Quote

2.5 FCC Logo
Devices authorized under the SDoC procedure have the option to use the FCC logo to indicate compliance with the FCC rules, 12 and the logo may be included in the instruction materials or as part of an e-label. The FCC logo shall only be used on a product that has been tested, evaluated, and found to be compliant in accordance with the SDoC procedures. The use of the FCC logo on the device does not mitigate the requirement to provide a means to uniquely identify the product or to provide the required compliance information statement. The FCC logo cannot be used on products that are exempt from an authorization by rule (e.g., Section 15.103 exempt devices, or Section 15.3 incidental radiators) unless the SDoC procedure has been fully applied for the product.

Last I checked they did not provide a way to uniquely identify the device (fake numbers).

 

In other news, Finnigan Fox was shown. Things I noticed. 1) Testers have 0% completed (similar to how Mullis had 0% completed on Cornhole), 2) the game has the build/date number showing in the bottom left suggesting it isn't the finished build as that shouldn't be there, 3) sound is off, but I'm going to give benefit and assume it's the recording lag, 4) it is either hard to control or DJC just kind of sucks at gaming, 5) Way too much looking down at the controller.

[Wayler]

2 hours ago, Cebus Capucinis said:

I have many thoughts, most of which I shouldn't share.

I hear you, it's getting increasingly harder to find that special happy place after certain posts. Luckily it's midsummer now and I can participate in the goverment approved pagan rituals to burn stuff. 

[mr_me]

2 hours ago, Razzie.P said:

Which makes it more impressive that they actually managed to fail the certification, I suppose.

 

At least I think they failed.   Not sure anymore.  Lines are blurred between they failed/they passed/Cletus in "sanitation" said they could pass/etc

In an interview in summer 2021, their CFO said they had failed testing back in late 2020.  That they had to make revisions and then had successful fcc rf emissions testing that summer.  Two engineers also indicated successful testing around the same time.  That's testing for fcc rf emissions, they didn't mention certification.

 

The engineer on reddit was answering questions in 2022.  He also indicated that the hardware was last revised in early 2021 to correct issues and that it had passed preliminary testing but they didn't submit for certification.  

https://www.reddit.com/r/Intellivision_Amico/comments/w5p62t/comment/ihez1a6/

 

Edited June 22, 2023 by mr_me

[MarioMan88]

4 hours ago, Bill Loguidice said:

paypal@intellivisionentertainment.com is what has worked for me and others. I provided as much detail as I could.

Thanks I’ll let him know!

[+lawdawg710]

1 hour ago, mr_me said:

In an interview in summer 2021, their CFO said they had failed testing back in late 2020.  That they had to make revisions and then had successful fcc rf emissions testing that summer.  Two engineers also indicated successful testing around the same time.  That's testing for fcc rf emissions, they didn't mention certification.

 

The engineer on reddit was answering questions in 2022.  He also indicated that the hardware was last revised in early 2021 to correct issues and that it had passed preliminary testing but they didn't submit for certification.  

https://www.reddit.com/r/Intellivision_Amico/comments/w5p62t/comment/ihez1a6/

 

Please just stop!!! 

[MattPilz]

12 hours ago, mr_me said:

But the reason isn't because they don't have certifications, that's the least of their problems.

But it also would had been one of the least involved efforts to check off a major milestone if they were truly ready, as the CEO implied would happen within a few weeks...back in 2021. The cost of the table and logistics for their High Octane award (“Best Consumer Technology Innovation”) could had alternatively covered the final FCC expenses if cost was the concern. And by 2021 Tommy and an engineer explained on video how since the hardware and console was entirely finished, they had extra time to kill so could focus on extra polish like how much noise the clicks were when docking a controller.

 

They were quick to get games ESRB-rated and approved even long before the games were complete, and used that as a promotional point to illustrate how close they were in preparation of launch. They did not do the same for FCC, apparently.

 

[MrBeefy]

3 minutes ago, MattPilz said:

But it also would had been one of the least involved efforts to check off a major milestone if they were truly ready, as the CEO implied would happen within a few weeks...back in 2021. The cost of the table and logistics for their High Octane award (“Best Consumer Technology Innovation”) could had alternatively covered the final FCC expenses if cost was the concern. And by 2021 Tommy and an engineer explained on video how since the hardware and console was entirely finished, they had extra time to kill so could focus on extra polish like how much noise the clicks were when docking a controller.

 

They were quick to get games ESRB-rated and approved even long before the games were complete, and used that as a promotional point to illustrate how close they were in preparation of launch. They did not do the same for FCC, apparently.

 

Nailed it.

 

If that hardware isn't FCC certified it isn't finished.

 

Anyways here is the quote from July 2022. Interpret as you please.

 

[MarioMan88]

7 hours ago, Bill Loguidice said:

paypal@intellivisionentertainment.com is what has worked for me and others. I provided as much detail as I could.

Well, I sent that info to my friend and he had his wife send email #8 to that specific email and guess what? He just received $200 via PayPal. Full refund…shocked and happy for him. I’m off the hook. I was the one to got him hyped up to order 2 of these revolutionary units 😂 Thanks again! He’s thrilled!

Edited June 22, 2023 by MarioMan88
Added pic he just sent

[+Stephen]

23 minutes ago, MarioMan88 said:

Well, I sent that info to my friend and he had his wife send email #8 to that specific email and guess what? He just received $200 via PayPal. Full refund…shocked and happy for him. I’m off the hook. I was the one to got him hyped up to order 2 of these revolutionary units 😂 Thanks again! He’s thrilled!

Excellent - help drain that swamp!

[roots.genoa]

5 hours ago, Razzie.P said:

Are most of those thoughts about the Great European Buffet Incident?

Oh ffs I was going to make that joke!! 😭

[MattPilz]

27 minutes ago, MarioMan88 said:

Well, I sent that info to my friend and he had his wife send email #8 to that specific email and guess what? He just received $200 via PayPal. Full refund…shocked and happy for him. I’m off the hook. I was the one to got him hyped up to order 2 of these revolutionary units 😂 Thanks again! He’s thrilled!

 

Great to hear. It's unfortunate Phil provided the unmonitored email account (support@intellivision.com) as the contact for people to request refunds, instead of this one. I had written to the support account and waited weeks without any acknowledgment, then filed a PayPal dispute and waited another 10 days for it to close in my favor.

 

At the time I discovered the PayPal account was associated with Tommy's personal alias, which led me to theorize the account was originally created out of Tommy's personal, just with added email account(s) for Intellivision. If that is true it would explain why the PayPal route has a higher success rate for refunds, cause too many unanswered disputes can result in total account termination which would suck more if it was also a personal one.

[Flojomojo]

2 hours ago, lawdawg710 said:

Please just stop!!! 

Haha so true. Wasn’t even accidentslly correct, like this thing that gives me the same feelings as Amico.

37 minutes ago, MrBeefy said:

Nailed it.

 

If that hardware isn't FCC certified it isn't finished.

 

Anyways here is the quote from July 2022. Interpret as you please.

 

There’s no “interpretation” to be made. To fail FCC tests and not to attempt FCC tests bring about the same result. No FCC certification! 

[rayik]

15 minutes ago, Flojomojo said:

Haha so true. Wasn’t even accidentslly correct, like this thing that gives me the same feelings as Amico.

There’s no “interpretation” to be made. To fail FCC tests and not to attempt FCC tests bring about the same result. No FCC certification! 

@Flojomojo @MrBeefy  You both just don’t understand. IF what I am ASSUMING is TRUE then I BELIEVE what I believe.  On top of that someone once SAID something which can be used to support my ASSUMPTIONS and OPINIONS.   
 

Now this is clear. 

Edited June 22, 2023 by rayik

[MrBeefy]

50 minutes ago, Stephen said:

Excellent - help drain that swamp!

Why do you want them to fail hater?!

34 minutes ago, Flojomojo said:

Haha so true. Wasn’t even accidentslly correct, like this thing that gives me the same feelings as Amico.

There’s no “interpretation” to be made. To fail FCC tests and not to attempt FCC tests bring about the same result. No FCC certification! 

Some people's delusions make a convincing argument against reality.

21 minutes ago, rayik said:

@Flojomojo @MrBeefy  You both just don’t understand. IF what I am ASSUMING is TRUE then I BELIEVE what I believe.  On top of that someone once SAID something which can be used to support my ASSUMPTIONS and OPINIONS.   
 

Now this is clear. 

THIS HAS BEEN DISCUSSED BEFORE AND DON'T KEEP REMINDING ME OF HOW WRONG I AM^TM.

[Cebus Capucinis]

12 hours ago, Razzie.P said:

Are most of those thoughts about the Great European Buffet Incident?

Hohoho hahaha,,,,,,,very droll,,,,,,very droll 👎🙁