Intellivision Amico’s trademark changed to ‘abandoned’

[+5-11under]

It's all just words... "no material role" could mean many things... ... and management... you know how it is... they do everything, and nothing at all, both at the same time.

[phoenixdownita]

2 minutes ago, 5-11under said:

It's all just words... "no material role" could mean many things... ... and management... you know how it is... they do everything, and nothing at all, both at the same time.

Yes it depends on what the word "mean" means ... sure.

If that doc had to spell it out there's a reason .... and that reason does not depend on the meaning of what the word "meaning" even means ... (oh boy that's a mouthful)

[number6]

8 minutes ago, phoenixdownita said:

Yes it depends on what the word "mean" means ... sure.

If that doc had to spell it out there's a reason .... and that reason does not depend on the meaning of what the word "meaning" even means ... (oh boy that's a mouthful)

heh. but we're not shocked are we? we all know that the #1 hobby of lawyers is semantics.

 

#6

[Flojomojo]

2 hours ago, MrBeefy said:

Another thing to remember is they had also yet to pass FCC which is a reoccurring theme and still is a problem to this day.

 

I remember how defensive the former CEO would get when people brought that up. It's memorialized here. I'm not sure exactly when that was since the backed-up post says "9 hours ago" but it's probably around the same time period. Instead of a simple "FCC isn't done yet," he spouted:

 

Quote

You do NOT need FCC certification to manufacture a product.  I REPEAT... you do NOT need FCC certification to MANUFACTURE a product.  You need it to SELL a product.  To say that we're not ready for manufacturing and production because our FCC certification isn't coming up on their website is naive and misinformed.  I would kindly advise that these types of folks probably aren't the best source to be getting your Amico news.     We could pull the trigger on the final FCC certification (so it shows up on their website) any time before the product ships. Maybe we have reasons for not doing so at this exact moment in time?

It's like he heard someone say "the best defense is a good offense" early in life and never stopped to think how attacking people would snap back at him. This is the same guy who said "Underpromise and overdeliver? How lazy. We will overpromise and overdeliver!" It often seemed like performance art, but the money they took was real enough. 

 

What could be some good reasons for not posting their FCC certifications well in advance of product fulfillment? It's not as if there would be enough information on there for competitors to beat them to market. Analogue's FPGA consoles, Blaze's Evercade, Valve's Steam Deck, and Panic's Playdate didn't seem to have such hangups about simple factual questions, so why would Intellivision? Unless they weren't finished, of course. And needed to keep their game face on in order to hook more investors. And didn't like to be wrong about anything. 

 

 

I've never worked in any job where this kind of communication would be tolerated for any length of time, even if the person were very good at what they did. 

[Flojomojo]

That post contained a pretty pathetic attempt at FUD over the RFID tags, too. 

 

Quote

Just because someone buys an RFID reader and scans a link on our card, doesn't mean there isn't OTHER encrypted data on the RFID.

 

Did anyone actually believe this at the time?

How about now?

[number6]

13 minutes ago, Flojomojo said:

 I'm not sure exactly when that was since the backed-up post says "9 hours ago" but it's probably around the same time period.

You seem to know this aspect. Stupid question coming...

Can you certify when the product definition is still "a moving target" that keeps changing and shows no evidence of entering a "freeze"/"lockdown" phase?

 

#6

[Flojomojo]

50 minutes ago, phoenixdownita said:

Ok one more piece of info, you are not an investor, now last piece is what ties, if any, do you have with IE or any of the people involved. (for all we know you may be a second cousin of Alvarado OR if we luck out you are Steven Victor Tallarico and you're making sure "we are not missing a thing" ....).

 

On the Allard piece the fact that the document had to spell out "considering his contributions overall, Mr. Allard has not played a material role in Amico product development." during a last ditch effort investor seeking action, tells all you need to know ... aka ... "if you plan on investing based on mr Allard contributions you probably shouldn't" (yes it is my interpretation, but so is for your case in which you try to present him as if he did something relevant wrt Amico and in so doing somewhat justifying the ex CEO name dropping even after the fact .... the document says he did not).
It does not mean he did nothing, it just means whatever he attempted ended up discarded, severely reduced or outright opposed and "overall" (direct doc words) he played "no material role" (also direct doc words) .... you can speak about immaterial role and immaterial contributions if you want but that's besides the point.
We have no idea what he attempted to do, what direction he wanted to take etc... we do know none of that resulted in anything tangible (aka material) as the doc says.

I was able to find the specific Security and Exchange Commission's correspondence with Fig Publishing using their EDGAR search tool. Notably, it's the only document of its kind for that company. The SEC's attorney was specifically asking about Allard because Intellivision's words and the actual reality didn't appear to line up. The fact that they asked the question means they smelled something was up:

Quote On this page, the Company states that “The Intellivision Amico is being developed by a dedicated team of industry veterans. Leading members of development have worked on a wide variety of projects relating to launching and maintaining new hardware and software in the gaming industry. J Allard, the company’s Global Managing Director, previously served as Microsoft’s Chief Experience Officer and Chief Technology Officer of the Entertainment and Devices Division, heavily contributing to the development of the Xbox and Xbox 360 game consoles.” However, recent website postings have indicated that J Allard may be leaving or may have left the Company. Please clarify the Company’s disclosure regarding J Allard’s status and whether any change in that status has had or may have a material effect of the development of the Amico game console. And Intellivision's response, through Fig, acknowledged that they he didn't have the impact that they said he did, and they removed him from their marketing pitch, thereby eliminating one obviously fraudulent claim from their written statements.    Intellivision got caught, simple as that. Just like with the stolen assets in Tank Tank, the mobile game origins of "exclusive" Evel Knievel, or even the initial "no crowdfunding" console taking pre-order money, or even dumb typos like "ConHole." How many times has the community helped them from further hurting themselves?   Isn't it weird that Tommy Tallarico didn't have a single thing to say about the SEC/Allard situation, despite multiple pages of brags on here teasing people about his hot new hire?

The full letter if you want to read all of the context:

https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/0001658966/000121390021015823/filename1.htm

[+GoldLeader]

7 hours ago, roots.genoa said:

 

?

 

Hehe...Yes.  I disclosed that I got a PM,  but not the contents of said PM.  I can tell you if they were vague, or non definitive,...even if he said I could explain his situation,  I would not feel comfortable doing so.  Any questions about mr_me need to go to mr_me...

[Flojomojo]

9 minutes ago, number6 said:

You seem to know this aspect. Stupid question coming...

Can you certify when the product definition is still "a moving target" that keeps changing and shows no evidence of entering a "freeze"/"lockdown" phase?

 

#6

I don't understand your question. How can you prove a negative? There was never any evidence as far as I can tell that there was a code freeze or lockdown on hardware changes, but I'm just some idiot on the internet with the same public resources as everyone else. 

 

The initial pitch implied "we're on the launchpad, we just need fuel for the rocket" or something like that. That was the Fig and later Republic sales pitch, both of which are still online as far as I know. 

 

Then there were 2 more fundraising attempts, as well as direct pre-orders from Intellivision and retail pre-orders via Fig and Gamestop. Each time they tried to get more money, they had to reveal a little bit more about their progress so far. It was never good news. Partners dropped off, the number of games shrank, and the progress milestones seemed to regress. 

 

Fundraiser #3 was at Fundable, you had to pay a monthly fee to get in, so there wasn't any coverage from the usual people who followed this. On the front page there were a few telltale signs though. The first was that the operating system was 90% complete (this was as of August 2021, almost a full year after the original retail launch date), and the second was that they had 6,000 preorders, which was less than half of what was previously claimed in other fundraisers. No public evidence of $25M+ in retail orders has ever been provided from a trustworthy source. The fundraiser page is gone now, but here's a web capture from Wayback. 

 

 

In order to file for what would have been their 4th fundraising attempt at StartEngine, Intellivision Entertainment had to file paperwork with the Securities and Exchange Commission with all of the facts of their company. This document from February 2022 is the only SEC document that Intellivision has filed itself (not via Fig Publishing or Republic). Here's the direct link. It's long but it's quite damning:

 

- they were out of money 

- the principals had loaned hundreds of thousands of dollars to the company and received large paybacks, with interest

- the father of the Intellivision VP in UAE fronted a large loan which required him to receive $100 from every system sold until the loan was satisfied

- preorders were down to about 5,400 (a few months later, CEO Phil Adam wrote of their "intention" to refund everyone who asked for money back, but there was a queue)

 

This is a good video roundup: 

 

 

And there was a lot of discussion on Reddit at the time: https://www.reddit.com/r/Intellivision_Amico/search/?q=sec&restrict_sr=1&sr_nsfw=

 

It's almost as long as the document itself (or my post here) but this is a good explainer:

 

Not sure if this answers your question or just creates more questions! A lot of people have become Amicologists over the past few months, because it's fascinating. 

[number6]

Quote

Not sure if this answers your question or just creates more questions! A lot of people have become Amicologists over the past few months, because it's fascinating. 

You went way further than my question was heading, but that's fine. You understood what I said perfectly.

People not "Amicologists" often ask "what's going on?"

If Tommy's reason for not submitting is "reasons", that's not highly informative in my opinion.

I'm merely offering a possible reason that might explain this.

Keeping the door open to make further changes before submission. Since constant change has a history here, I think it's an acceptable theory.

 

I'll let others tackle the balance of your extensive post. heh.

 

#6

[Tickled_Pink]

1 hour ago, Flojomojo said:

You do NOT need FCC certification to manufacture a product.  I REPEAT... you do NOT need FCC certification to MANUFACTURE a product.  You need it to SELL a product.  To say that we're not ready for manufacturing and production because our FCC certification isn't coming up on their website is naive and misinformed.  I would kindly advise that these types of folks probably aren't the best source to be getting your Amico news.     We could pull the trigger on the final FCC certification (so it shows up on their website) any time before the product ships. Maybe we have reasons for not doing so at this exact moment in time?

Um ... WHAT? So, his idea was to manufacture an item, knowing that he needed FCC certification to sell it? What if it failed certification with 10,000 units stuck in a warehouse?

I know he was just trying to blow smoke up peoples' ass. Either way. he was yet another clown who underestimated how much work and how much money it would take to bring a product to market. The industry's full of BS like this. It's always been an issue. The problem now is that these people have the means to fleece thousands of customers and never give them the product they paid for.

[Flojomojo]

5 minutes ago, number6 said:

You went way further than my question was heading, but that's fine. You understood what I said perfectly.

People not "Amicologists" often ask "what's going on?"

If Tommy's reason for not submitting is "reasons", that's not highly informative in my opinion.

I'm merely offering a possible reason that might explain this.

Keeping the door open to make further changes before submission. Since constant change has a history here, I think it's an acceptable theory.

 

I'll let others tackle the balance of your extensive post. heh.

 

#6

There have been subsequent statements from other non-muzzled/hiding Intellivision people that suggest they're going to try and license out the IP, make a "Lite" version of the hardware, and other things. If past is prologue, watch what they do, not what they say. They say lots of things. 

[mr_me]

1 hour ago, Flojomojo said:

...

And Intellivision's response, through Fig, acknowledged that they he didn't have the impact that they said he did, and they removed him from their marketing pitch, thereby eliminating one obviously fraudulent claim from their written statements. 

...

Even without Allard they still have staff to support the claim "Leading members of development have worked on a wide variety of projects relating to launching and maintaining new hardware and software in the gaming industry.".  Andre Lamothe, for example, engineered the Amico controllers and helped put together the team to develop the console.  He has previously developed, released, and supported video game development system hardware.  Allard was however there, and continued to be available as an advisor according to the SEC file.

 

SEC's reason for the question is not so much Allard leaving or not leaving, it's what impact that might have.

 

 

22 minutes ago, number6 said:

You went way further than my question was heading, but that's fine. You understood what I said perfectly.

People not "Amicologists" often ask "what's going on?"

If Tommy's reason for not submitting is "reasons", that's not highly informative in my opinion.

I'm merely offering a possible reason that might explain this.

Keeping the door open to make further changes before submission. Since constant change has a history here, I think it's an acceptable theory.

 

I'll let others tackle the balance of your extensive post. heh.

 

#6

20 minutes ago, Tickled_Pink said:

Um ... WHAT? So, his idea was to manufacture an item, knowing that he needed FCC certification to sell it? What if it failed certification with 10,000 units stuck in a warehouse?

If they passed FCC cerification tests like they said last summer than filing is academic.  They've already certified twice for two different RAM components.  And things can change during manufacturing, so if that happens than they would need to recertify.  Best time to finalise FCC certification is after you've gone through manufacturing preproduction and test units.

Edited July 19, 2022 by mr_me

[phoenixdownita]

26 minutes ago, mr_me said:

... Allard was however there, and continued to be available as an advisor according to the SEC file.

 

SEC's reason for the question is not so much Allard leaving or not leaving, it's what impact that might have.

 

There's more to it:

https://www.geekwire.com/2021/xbox-co-founder-j-allard-left-intellivision-short-stint-hints-project-gaming-vet-brother/

 

"The Geek Getaway posted a YouTube video at the end of January commenting on Allard removing any mention of Intellivision from his LinkedIn. The video has a pinned comment from Intellivision CEO Tommy Tallarico, in which the Intellivision CEO said in part: “J Allard was a contractor who worked for us as we were finalizing the hardware design. He has his own company which is why he was never a full-time employee. He is still an advisor to this day as needed.”

 

Maybe the since ex CEO did not mean what he said or maybe he didn't say what he meant, 'cause you know ... semantics.

 

And, you did not answer if you have any ties with IE or related personnel therein past or present (who's left there anyway?) ... I really really hope you are Steven Victor Tallarico undercover ... that "would really be something" .... 

 

[+GoldLeader]

When it comes to "fleecing customers"  and I'm not saying that was the intent,...Well even products that do exist may be scams (to a point).  Remember when we used to say or be told that in third world countries there's no guarantee,  but this is America!;   Where products need to pass muster,  get certified, have warranties, etc.  and if something is broken you should, in theory, get your money back (or a suitable replacement).  I've been burned more than a few times lately by products that claim a Warranty on the box, but never respond to emails or any attempts at communication anyway...Always after the point where eBay or Amazon can do anything,  If they were involved,...

 

It's worse then when the CEO of a company is making claims to reassure customers and investors alike and many of those claims turn out to be false...And when said somebody is a big name or has a previous track record, you are supposed to be able to believe them.  It's no wonder that people* believe them.

 

 

*Whether the people are future customers, investors, or even mods at AtariAge believing what's being said,  IMO you generally don't blame the victim,  you blame the liar. 

[+GoldLeader]

Also:  Regarding "ConHole"...Not sure that was a typo or misspelling.  Could have been a Freudian Slip!

[mr_me]

7 minutes ago, phoenixdownita said:

There's more to it:

https://www.geekwire.com/2021/xbox-co-founder-j-allard-left-intellivision-short-stint-hints-project-gaming-vet-brother/

 

"The Geek Getaway posted a YouTube video at the end of January commenting on Allard removing any mention of Intellivision from his LinkedIn. The video has a pinned comment from Intellivision CEO Tommy Tallarico, in which the Intellivision CEO said in part: “J Allard was a contractor who worked for us as we were finalizing the hardware design. He has his own company which is why he was never a full-time employee. He is still an advisor to this day as needed.”

 

And, you did not answer if you have any ties with IE or related personnel therein past or present (who's left there anyway?) ... I really really hope you are Steven Victor Tallarico undercover ... that "would really be something" .... 

 

Being contracted makes no difference, doesn't mean he wasn't there fulltime as the SEC file says.  Andre Lamothe was contracted and he engineered the controllers.  The Republic investor page said the team is not limited to employees.  No I'm not tied to anyone.

Edited July 19, 2022 by mr_me

[number6]

23 minutes ago, mr_me said:

No I'm not tied to anyone.

Be prepared to cut and paste that a few times.

 

#6

[Flojomojo]

Mr_Me seems to be judging this on the basis of "beyond a reasonable doubt" -- as in, you can't prove that Amico was in fact NOT awesome and ready to go and everyone on board was super talented and they never had any delays and Amico just hit a streak of bad luck.

 

Myself and others are more on team "preponderance of evidence," a lower standard, by which it sure looks like they burned through all the money they collected, and don't have much to show for it, and if we're wrong, there should be some product out there to show us by now. 

 

Where I come from, if you're selling something, the burden of proof is on the seller. That seems to be controversial for some people who really want this thing to happen. 

 

@phoenixdownita that Geek Getaway guy was a member here for a brief time before he was banned for something?

[mr_me]

Banned?  I thought he lost a bet.

 

And disagree with that characterisation.  If people think the Amico is terrible I'm not going to try to convince you otherwise.  Never had delays?

Edited July 19, 2022 by mr_me

[MrBeefy]

4 hours ago, ColecoJoe said:

It seems history would turn the tables on that suggestion  hi @Tommy Tallarico

Chill out! ?

1 hour ago, Tickled_Pink said:

Um ... WHAT? So, his idea was to manufacture an item, knowing that he needed FCC certification to sell it? What if it failed certification with 10,000 units stuck in a warehouse?

I know he was just trying to blow smoke up peoples' ass. Either way. he was yet another clown who underestimated how much work and how much money it would take to bring a product to market. The industry's full of BS like this. It's always been an issue. The problem now is that these people have the means to fleece thousands of customers and never give them the product they paid for.

Maybe the reason they didn't have it on the website is that it wasn't done? That is a completely legit reason to not post it.

 

28 minutes ago, GoldLeader said:

 

*Whether the people are future customers, investors, or even mods at AtariAge believing what's being said,  IMO you generally don't blame the victim,  you blame the liar. 

No it's the HaTeRz!

 

Heck I've seen in the copium Facebook group where people say dumb things like if you ask for a refund you are distracting them! It's so sad to thebpoint of Poe's law.

 

Some just refuse to admit that it was IE and it's leadership that got them stuck in this spot. Not covid, haters, or asking for refunds.

[number6]

9 minutes ago, Flojomojo said:

Mr_Me seems to be judging this on the basis of "beyond a reasonable doubt" -- as in, you can't prove that Amico was in fact NOT awesome and ready to go and everyone on board was super talented and they never had any delays and Amico just hit a streak of bad luck.

 

Myself and others are more on team "preponderance of evidence," a lower standard, by which it sure looks like they burned through all the money they collected, and don't have much to show for it, and if we're wrong, there should be some product out there to show us by now. 

 

Where I come from, if you're selling something, the burden of proof is on the seller. That seems to be controversial for some people who really want this thing to happen. 

 

@phoenixdownita that Geek Getaway guy was a member here for a brief time before he was banned for something?

I think fans are merely anxiously waiting for an update since "few weeks" (Phil) is almost at the gate of "few months"

 

#6

[MrBeefy]

6 minutes ago, Flojomojo said:

Mr_Me seems to be judging this on the basis of "beyond a reasonable doubt" -- as in, you can't prove that Amico was in fact NOT awesome and ready to go and everyone on board was super talented and they never had any delays and Amico just hit a streak of bad luck.

 

Myself and others are more on team "preponderance of evidence," a lower standard, by which it sure looks like they burned through all the money they collected, and don't have much to show for it, and if we're wrong, there should be some product out there to show us by now. 

 

Where I come from, if you're selling something, the burden of proof is on the seller. That seems to be controversial for some people who really want this thing to happen. 

 

@phoenixdownita that Geek Getaway guy was a member here for a brief time before he was banned for something?

They are story tellers and not showers. Remember all the Deep Dives we were suppose to get? Was it suppose to be one a week or something a part? Either way we are long past time for the next one. I would be willing to bet they knew there was other stuff they would get crapped on for if they showed it. Tanks was a grand way to start that off. They dove so deep they drowned.

[MrBeefy]

Just now, number6 said:

I think fans are merely anxiously waiting for an update since "few weeks" (Phil) is almost at the gate of "few months"

 

#6

This is normal for them they almost always miss self imposed deadlines. They even irked off CNET because they postponed it for a day because he could get the video to render properly.

[roots.genoa]

2 hours ago, GoldLeader said:

 

Hehe...Yes.  I disclosed that I got a PM,  but not the contents of said PM.  I can tell you if they were vague, or non definitive,...even if he said I could explain his situation,  I would not feel comfortable doing so.  Any questions about mr_me need to go to mr_me...

Don't worry, I got it. It's just that you said you didn't want to disclose the PM because you thought Mr Mr would do it himself, then admitted that the fact he contacted you through a PM made you think he wouldn't. The conclusion is the same but the reasoning is quite the opposite. ?

 

31 minutes ago, mr_me said:

Banned?  I thought he lost a bet.

Oh that's rich! Tony actually WON THE BET. The MLB license was not announced when Tommy said it would be. ?

The reason why you may think he left because he lost the bet is I'm pretty sure he was banned because he kept debating Tommy on the subject. So of course, Tony wasn't there anymore when the press released promised by Tommy did not happen; he later blamed COVID and claimed they delayed the news to match the new baseball season or something, but I'm not even sure that happened that way in the end. You just have to browse any mobile eshop to realize the MLB license is very easy to get anyway.

Edited July 19, 2022 by roots.genoa