Intellivision Amico’s trademark changed to ‘abandoned’

[MrBeefy]

5 minutes ago, 1980gamer said:

@MrBeefy Don't underestimate the pandemic.

My company is finally getting back ordered items that should have come in 18 months ago.

 

Sure, we continued getting many items over the entire $h!t storm.  But many items were a pain.  Paper was near impossible at some points.

 

Remember, IE is not a major player.  Manufacturers are not going to put them at the front of the line.   That goes for procurement or assembly.

 

As for items being complete / tested etc.  I have no idea and will not comment on that.  I can tell you, I saw what seemed to be a pretty complete system.

I would have been happy with what was at the Boston showing.  Fun games, great responsive controllers, good variety of games etc.

I would not want it to be static.  I would expect updates as needed and new content of course, but it looked ready to go otherwise.

 

Why the delay after the pandemic.  $$  They certainly should have scaled back much earlier.  Now, with no cash, no console.  I am thinking the delay only ends if an angel investor comes along.

 

Until something is dead, it is alive.  As Miracle Max would say, It is only Mostly dead.  Mostly dead, is slightly alive.

 

They have had the ability to manufacture twice and passed it up both times.

 

If money was an issue for them during the pandemic then you are saying they were beyond dumb for taking a month off of work to move into the giant office (now abandoned) in November of 2020?

 

I understand it was a pain but it sounds like you all made plans and got things. Intellivision appears to have yet to do anything for 2 years. If they aren't manufacturing right now that is going to push it into 2023. They have no real plan to make them.

 

@kevtris you have more experience in this stuff. What would timelines on getting BOMs, ordering parts, FCC testing and such take place? Like what is a typical timetable and what order do they go in?

[Rev]

1 hour ago, Razzie.P said:

 

My idea of a scam is pretty simple, I think – using known deception (including deceptive claims/statements) to acquire some sort of profit/gain

For example, let’s say I started announcing that I’m creating a brand new handheld gaming system called Flameeko

And I do something like, I dunno – print out a box at home, make a 3d printed prototype shell, and use it to create an official looking “unboxing video” to give buyers/investors the impression that we’re almost ready to release, then yep, I’ve crossed clearly into “scam” territory.
 

 

 

That’s kind of interesting – does a scam cease being a scam if the “promised result” is ultimately delivered?  Fyre Festival comes to mind.  They took people’s money via false advertising, overpromising (sounds familiar, don’t it) and people were sentenced to prison, if I recall, and it's widely accepted as a scam.  Now – if they come out and finally deliver the festival “as promised” other than the release date, would it no longer be considered a scam?

 

 

 

I didn't check either of these for accuracy or care enough to get into the details, so could be that "fake news" I hear so much about, but at a glance, I found the comparison to "how many $$$" between Amico and Fyre a bit interesting --

 

 

 

Good points.     
 

So, *IF* it never ships then surely this ended up being a scam, maybe everyone can agree?    Taking in 17+ million and never releasing anything except codes in a box. 
 

But *IF* Amico does ship a decent amount of consoles that have been VALUE ENGINEERED down to the bare bones and not at all what was originally promised or people preordered, like missing features. Basically a bait and switch for consumers and investors, is that considered a scam?

Edited August 14, 2022 by Rev

[Rev]

Pandemic is a lazy excuse, Playdate released, Evercade is releasing the 3rd version, Arcade1Up is releasing tons of large arcade Cabinets shipped from overseas, Steamdeck released, even the Atari VCS released.  
 

You cant release a console when the backend and OS isnt complete among other things.  Everyone worked remote, and from what ive seen people were more productive. But the IE offices was filled with used junk cars and a jet, focus was not on releasing a console.   Sad

[MrBeefy]

16 minutes ago, Rev said:

Pandemic is a lazy excuse, Playdate released, Evercade is releasing the 3rd version, Arcade1Up is releasing tons of large arcade Cabinets shipped from overseas, Steamdeck released, even the Atari VCS released.  
 

You cant release a console when the backend and OS isnt complete among other things.  Everyone worked remote, and from what ive seen people were more productive. But the IE offices was filled with used junk cars and a jet, focus was not on releasing a console.   Sad

Appearances were more important than getting the product out. Why do you think that might be?

 

[Rev]

What is left to do on the Amico punch list to get this thing launched?  
 

What needs added or removed?  

 

1. FCC certifications

2. CE certifications

3. Patent 

4. Operating system 100%
5. Online store 100%

6. Leaderboards 100%

7. Purchase all materials

8. Line up Manufacturing

9. Open new office(s)

10. Line up distributors again

11. Hire new employees

12. ??

[mr_me]

8 hours ago, gaterooze_ink said:

Yeah, and more fool me for momentarily forgetting that.

Have you ever hired a consultant and asked for the result and not the report.  Saves time and money.  Regardless of whether you think it makes sense, multiple engineers have said they did just that, passing fcc rf emissions testing without submitting for certification.

 

 

6 hours ago, MrBeefy said:

That is total interpretation and bad reading comprehension on your part. This is what the engineer said and is the most recent update on the matter.

Out of spec = did not pass

If we went back = has not tested and passed

Would have passed = think/hope it would.

 

You are are lying and wrong about this. This has been discussed.™️

 

 

The engineer on reddit also said this.

"It passed the preliminary tests. It's not so hard to add some ground planes to shield some of the high speed signals. Why we didn't get the final certificate? I don't know. I'm not a money guy." and "The hardware was last rev'd over a year and a half ago. Firmware can always be improved but it could have ship a while ago."  A year and a half a go would put it around early 2021.

All three engineers are saying the same thing, they passed fcc testing, two specifically said fcc rf emissions testing.  Of course they had to make changes to get it to pass, they could all be talking about the same thing.  How am I lying.

 

2 hours ago, MrBeefy said:

...

They could have had them made in 2020. There were two possible reasons they didn't. 1) It wasn't as ready as they said it was, or 2) they didn't want to cut the check and do it. I think both are possibilities, but even given it wasn't done then.

 

They should not literally be in the exact same spot they were in now as they were in Feb-March 2020. They even got a manufacturing loan in 2021 and they still haven't met basic milestones.

...

 

They did have working prototypes ready in 2020.  They also told Republic investors they had a $150M line of credit for manufacturing.  So why were they asking Republic investors for $15M.  The Republic Amico page documents has a "use of proceeds" list that does include marketing, but number one is "The development of the Amico video game console".  Republic investors were probably prepared for some delay and it was delayed one full year before the Republic campaign closed and investors could back out.

 

The manufacturing loan they got in 2021 might get them a few thousand Amicos if they are lucky.  That is a start but it doesn't do much for the bottom line or for Republic investors.  They need a plan to get units out to retailers and their target market.  Their overhead is really low right now, they need manufacturing financing more than an investment, and they need the product price to be around $250.

 

3 hours ago, Flojomojo said:

Tommy Tallarico was using this board for publicity to make money. I think many people mistook his exploitation for friendship. It's not "piling on" to be skeptical of people making claims that they can't back up, while they're trying to pick your pocket. 

 

"The Amico is CLEARLY not a scam" is one take, but when it's increasingly clear that nothing was as far along as they made it out to be, that seem pretty scammy to me. Failing at business is a thing that happens, and admiring people for taking a shot is fine. But propping up lies, mischaracterizations, personal attacks, and half-truths is not something we should support. 

 

Mr. Tallarico invested in Amico but he also profited from it, both by taking a salary and by receiving huge returns on the interest he loaned the company. He's not a hero. 

 

As for damage to the name and his own reputation, I agree that it hurts him the most, but that's the path he chose. I see no reason to treat him any better than the terrible way he treated so many others. 

The founding partners and directors are in this thing with quite a bit of their own money even considering the salary compensation paid out and ignoring the work they've put in.  No interest has been paid according to the risk disclosure shared earlier this year, and may not ever be paid.

 

equity investment / loans outstanding (not including interest) / salary (2-years) = net sum invested

FP1   $167k   $119k   $177k   =   $109k

FP2   $133k   $342k                =   $476k

FP3   $150k   $113k   $177k   =    $85k  

FP4   $150k   $545k                =   $695k

Dir    $1.0M   $607k                =   $1.6M

 

So after subtracting salaries received, the founding partners are in it for about $1.36M of their own money.  Include the fifth board member and it's close to $3M.  None of them have profited.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 14, 2022 by mr_me

[+CurlyQ]

Amico Production Update:

 

It's Go Time!

 

 

[Pink]

Oy, the pandemic excuse again?

When was this supposed to initially release? October 2020? This thing would of already had to of been completed and been in manufacturing beforehand already prior to the start of the pandemic in Febuary/March 2020 if they were actually going to make that date. And the pandemic doesn't explain things like games not being finished, OS and backend not being done, or even functional, etc.

 

This has literally been covered nearly a billion times already beforehand that I can't actually believe people are still bringing it up...

[+CurlyQ]

14 minutes ago, Pink said:

This has literally been covered nearly a billion times already beforehand that I can't actually believe people are still bringing it up...

 

 

[jerseystyle]

7 minutes ago, CurlyQ said:

 

 

Yeah but it’s the shitty version.

 

[roots.genoa]

10 hours ago, CurlyQ said:

5. Tapping your controller onto another Amico to share your game library was a pretty cool idea. 💡

Thanks, I almost forgot about that! When it was announced, I thought it was a terrific idea. Imagine if one of the big 3 offered that for their system; it would be a real game changer... Gamers would love it since that's basically the opposite of DRM and other things they hate with modern gaming. Problem is, that's the kind of feature that can become worthless if the system is not successful enough. 😔

 

49 minutes ago, Pink said:

This has literally been covered nearly a billion times already beforehand that I can't actually believe people are still bringing it up...

Wait! Are you saying this has already been discussed™️? OK, let's move on to FCC certifications, then.

[zapzapzac]

1980gamer, mr_me and jaybird all agree! If you got a hot new nostalgia gaming grift, make sure to pitch it here. How dare people ask why they opened 5 worldwide offices before making a product? That’s piling on!

 

 

[SegaMasterSystemPunk]

9 hours ago, 1980gamer said:

Gee Whiz,  I go away for a couple of days...  And poor Mr Me gets piled on by many of you here.

 

Kind of reminds me of what many did to TT early on.

 

So because he has a different perspective, he is either on the take, or works for IE or will get his Amico before everyone else?  Anything I missed skimming over this nonsense?

 

The Amico is CLEARLY not a scam.  Because a company or individual fails at a business venture doesn't make it a scam.  People and business fail everyday.

At least TT took a shot.  Not many dreamers are willing to put it on the line.

 

Every Monday morning quarterback can point out mistakes made.  Thanks for the insight! LOL

 

But this is mob mentality.  Mr Me is just trying to keep things real.  He is not saying no mistakes have been made, or bad information has been put out.

He is trying to show what the reality is, to the best of his knowledge.  He has always been respectful and never makes it personal.

 

I have a lot of respect for him. 

 

As for TT's investment into Amico...  Don't forget he also acquired Intellivision first.  I don't know the terms, but it wasn't free!  If the Intellivision name is damaged, it hurts him the most.

You saying something is clearly not a scam doesn't make it clearly not a scam. There is a large difference between trying and failing, compared to lying and failing. I will not say they never intended to launch anything,  but they lied about what they had and what they were going to do time and time again, and from day one. That makes it a scam. That is just how the word is defined. 

[PlaysWithWolves]

4 hours ago, mr_me said:

So after subtracting salaries received, the founding partners are in it for about $1.36M of their own money.  Include the fifth board member and it's close to $3M.  None of them have profited.

 

I wasn't aware their 2021 financials were made public for you to make such an assertion.  Link, please?

[PlaysWithWolves]

1 hour ago, SegaMasterSystemPunk said:

You saying something is clearly not a scam doesn't make it clearly not a scam. There is a large difference between trying and failing, compared to lying and failing. I will not say they never intended to launch anything,  but they lied about what they had and what they were going to do time and time again, and from day one. That makes it a scam. That is just how the word is defined. 

 

I'm not sure why so many retro gamers imagine the definition of "scam" only means "take the money and run". 

 

Also, this excerpt:

 

[Jaxivision]

I don't have much to offer, other than the fact that I never got interested and I never pre-ordered anything.  I'm happy about that.

[rayik]

5 hours ago, mr_me said:

Have you ever hired a consultant and asked for the result and not the report.  Saves time and money.  Regardless of whether you think it makes sense, multiple engineers have said they did just that, passing fcc rf emissions testing without submitting for certification.

 

 

The engineer on reddit also said this.

"It passed the preliminary tests. It's not so hard to add some ground planes to shield some of the high speed signals. Why we didn't get the final certificate? I don't know. I'm not a money guy." and "The hardware was last rev'd over a year and a half ago. Firmware can always be improved but it could have ship a while ago."  A year and a half a go would put it around early 2021.

All three engineers are saying the same thing, they passed fcc testing, two specifically said fcc rf emissions testing.  Of course they had to make changes to get it to pass, they could all be talking about the same thing.  How am I lying.

 

 

They did have working prototypes ready in 2020.  They also told Republic investors they had a $150M line of credit for manufacturing.  So why were they asking Republic investors for $15M.  The Republic Amico page documents has a "use of proceeds" list that does include marketing, but number one is "The development of the Amico video game console".  Republic investors were probably prepared for some delay and it was delayed one full year before the Republic campaign closed and investors could back out.

 

The manufacturing loan they got in 2021 might get them a few thousand Amicos if they are lucky.  That is a start but it doesn't do much for the bottom line or for Republic investors.  They need a plan to get units out to retailers and their target market.  Their overhead is really low right now, they need manufacturing financing more than an investment, and they need the product price to be around $250.

 

The founding partners and directors are in this thing with quite a bit of their own money even considering the salary compensation paid out and ignoring the work they've put in.  No interest has been paid according to the risk disclosure shared earlier this year, and may not ever be paid.

 

equity investment / loans outstanding (not including interest) / salary (2-years) = net sum invested

FP1   $167k   $119k   $177k   =   $109k

FP2   $133k   $342k                =   $476k

FP3   $150k   $113k   $177k   =    $85k  

FP4   $150k   $545k                =   $695k

Dir    $1.0M   $607k                =   $1.6M

 

So after subtracting salaries received, the founding partners are in it for about $1.36M of their own money.  Include the fifth board member and it's close to $3M.  None of them have profited.

 

 

 

 

 

Everything in that post is relying on what was "said" being 100% true.  What is not in the post is analysis of whether what is "said" is reliable or comports with what has been publicly shown.

 

The back and forth is simply this is what was "said." This is an analysis of what was "said."  But this is what was "said"  But this is an analysis of what was "said"  Round and round.  if it is demonstrated that what was "said" is not true, response is then deflection by bringing up something unrelated.

 

Rinse and repeat regardless of the Amico discussion topic.

 

Not an effective method of demonstrating that what was "said" was reliable or true.

[1980gamer]

6 hours ago, Rev said:

Pandemic is a lazy excuse, Playdate released, Evercade is releasing the 3rd version, Arcade1Up is releasing tons of large arcade Cabinets shipped from overseas, Steamdeck released, even the Atari VCS released.  
 

You cant release a console when the backend and OS isnt complete among other things.  Everyone worked remote, and from what ive seen people were more productive. But the IE offices was filled with used junk cars and a jet, focus was not on releasing a console.   Sad

Playdate and Evercade do not have the same BOM as Amico.  You cannot compare these as 1 to 1 equivalents.

Arcade1Up has been pretty well established, their vendors may bump them up the queue.  Also, all of the arcade machines as essentially the same.  Economy of scale, don't forget the price increases!

 

I cannot speak to the backend. The OS looked functional in Boston.  The Console certainly seemed complete.

Downloading games worked. However, that does not mean they have the commerce part in place.

It also could be downloading from a PC in TT basement.  However, a lift and shift to Azure or AWS etc. could be done.  (scale testing would need to be done of course, that is easy these days)

 

Yes, the office was overkill in hindsight.  But they were scaling up.  Maybe it was to much and to soon.  But growth points are the most dangerous times for companies.

 

Yes, part of the office space was a storage bin for TT and maybe others.  What we can guess, TT saved some personal $ moving items from storage to IE.

Do we know he did not pay personal storage fees to IE  (yes, kind of back to himself) but still it matters to IE's bottom line.

 

IE shut down while moving in.  Well, maybe a few people were not doing Amico things, but contracted developers should be very limited in impact by this period.

 

I have zero inside information.  I am just speaking from personal experience.  I do not work in logistics or accounting etc.  But I do analysis and reporting of every dept. in our company.

I see the operation of the company holistically.  I didn't have to deal with suppliers or shippers etc. But I can tell you the results of the impact of the pandemic.

 

Like I said earlier, China was shut down way before we were, oh and parts are again.

[1980gamer]

Forgot the VCS.   Yes, they did ship.  This is made from very abundant parts.  Not saying that as a negative.  

 

Maybe if the Amico was designed as more of a traditional console than a low cost "toy" as many have described it, they would have had less supply issues.

Trying to meet a price point that ultimately they will not meet anyway really did the damage. In my opinion and the ability to look back at how it went down.

 

But as I said earlier, it is easy to Monday morning quarterback.

[1980gamer]

2 hours ago, zapzapzac said:

1980gamer, mr_me and jaybird all agree! If you got a hot new nostalgia gaming grift, make sure to pitch it here. How dare people ask why they opened 5 worldwide offices before making a product? That’s piling on!

 

 

Sure I like retro stuff.

Put TRON or Intellivision on a package and I will look at it with interest.

 

It doesn't mean I will buy it.  It just means I will look at it.  You have my attention, now show me what you've got.

[1980gamer]

Darn, did you mention Steam Deck? @Rev

 

Yes, another cool device. If I were to jump on that train, I would go for the highest end one.  But that is a bunch of $$

 

Those have just started shipping recently.  I have tried it, I think it is a great little machine.  I was not really thrilled with the feel in hand.  Button placement etc.

 

I didn't play it long enough to get used to the feel.  I would not rule it out as a future purchase.

[Rowsdower70]

10 hours ago, Rev said:

I would be interested in many people here, in their own words, define what the word scam means to them and what defines a scam in real life.  Without reference to the Amico.   What is the general definition not from a dictionary. 
 

Lets get a consensus of what it means, words have meanings. 
 

Who is first?   Me?  Ok. 
 

When i hear the word scam, a quick meaning to me is:  People got ripped off and scammed out of their money intentionally. 

The definition of a scam for me = the Amico.    They stole preorder money, they used a classic bait and switch scam (well defined, textbook), they defrauded investors. 
There may be some question as to whether it started out as a scam, but to say that it isn't a scam at this point would really make me question one's judgement on such things. 

[1980gamer]

3 hours ago, zapzapzac said:

How dare people ask why they opened 5 worldwide offices before making a product? That’s piling on!

 

The Cali location was a major investment, no doubt.

The other location were really points of presence, a nexus.  If you want to do business in some counties, this may be required.

 

I have not investigated the locations or rules for these locations, knock yourself out and report back for us.

 

[1980gamer]

8 minutes ago, Rowsdower70 said:

The definition of a scam for me = the Amico.    They stole preorder money, they used a classic bait and switch scam (well defined, textbook), they defrauded investors. 
There may be some question as to whether it started out as a scam, but to say that it isn't a scam at this point would really make me question one's judgement on such things. 

I will agree with some of this, people not getting refunded.  Yes!

 

Investors see how money is being spent and big investors have say in how the money is spent.

 

I have lost money investing, it happens.  I blame me.  If I didn't do my homework before handing my money over, that is on me.

 

I try not to invest with my heart, but with my head.  That is, I am happy to collect dividends from Coke, but I think they are evil and literally causing sickness and death.

I never knowingly buy Coke products.  They just have so many, I am certain I do...

 

I need to put my family first.  It sucks, I wish they made quality and health promoting goods.  They may make some, but we all know what the revenue generators are not good.

 

[Rowsdower70]

Just now, 1980gamer said:

I will agree with some of this, people not getting refunded.  Yes!

 

Investors see how money is being spent and big investors have say in how the money is spent.

 

I have lost money investing, it happens.  I blame me.  If I didn't do my homework before handing my money over, that is on me.

 

I try not to invest with my heart, but with my head.  That is, I am happy to collect dividends from Coke, but I think they are evil and literally causing sickness and death.

I never knowingly buy Coke products.  They just have so many, I am certain I do...

 

I need to put my family first.  It sucks, I wish they made quality and health promoting goods.  They may make some, but we all know what the revenue generators are not good.

 

To be fair, even without the misinformation provided it would have been a shaky investment.   That part doesn't concern me, but statements made that influenced a persons decision to invest that were inaccurate do.