Got any ideas for a Sonic-like platformer?

[Ecernosoft]

Hi guys.

Got any ideas for a platformer? (NOT ICT) I'd love to develop another platformer but don't know where to start.

 

Thanks.

 

E.C.

[Traxx]

Something simpler then ICT,something in your ability

[Ecernosoft]

1 minute ago, Traxx said:

Something simpler then ICT,something in your ability

It wouldn't be me alone, I'm also partially asking if someone would like to work on a platformer w/ me and had an idea

[Traxx]

you do the platforming part.....

[Cris1997XX]

YOU are going to program this, right?

[Silver Back]

You just want an idea for a game?  Or are you just looking for motivation?   Something with single screen levels would be cool (think donkey Kong style platformers). Maybe like Segas Monster Bash (master system) or an update to the 2600 Frankenstein. I guess I have Halloween on the brain lol but even like Nuts and Milk.

 

Idk I'm just throwing those out I think something single screen with platforming and tight controls and simple gameplay might be a good place to start.  That way you can get some basic elements in there really get the controls and feel down and then design multiple levels around that core. 

Edited October 8, 2022 by Silver Back

[+Muddyfunster]

Some advice, feel free to use or disregard as you see fit  

 

With any project, especially if you do not have a track record of completing projects, start small.

 

Take a pencil and a piece of paper (or an excel sheet, which is what I do, because reasons). Write down the things your game must have, the things you would like to have and the things that would be nice to have but are not make or break. Write down the features, prioritise them. Does your game need colour (160) or resolution (320). Game design is often an exercise in managing your resources and managing compromises depending on your platform. Basically - make a design document.

 

Your plan might be big, but start small and get something working first. Don't try to boil the ocean in one go. I can't reiterate enough, start small, get things working, scale things up. (When I built EXO, I started with a blob and single screen, I got stuff working, I then added the next feature, then the next and repeated). Yes you might be able to do 4000 screens if you compress or do some other funky process but how about starting with one screen that works? A.R.T.I. uses compression now, but I started by just getting stuff working. Build iteratively - get the engine working, add content later. Don't do something if you don't need to, it just uses resources, they are finite.

 

Trying to write a "sonic clone" from the get go probably won't end well if you have no experience of designing and completing a game (on any platform, not just the 7800) - see comments above. You will likely feel like you aren't achieving anything and your enthusiasm will fall and the project will die.

 

Decide on your target audience. If you want to do some funky artifacting trick that only 3 people will be able to experience properly because you need a tv from 1965 for it to work, then interest in your project will likely be low, that's going to be a curiosity at best. Some people have set ups to play on CRTs, many probably don't. Don't try do to something that shows 900 colours, yes it's clever, but for a game, it's not going to be practical and it wont work the same for everyone trying to play the game. Keep it simple, get the code and feel of the game right. Gfx can come later. With funky tricks, compression and stuff like that, just because you can do something, doesn't mean you should or need to. 

 

Think about your toolset and workflow. Don't be too quick to dismiss options like 7800Basic. It's a compiled language that outputs fast ASM and allows ASM to be mixed in with the language. It also allows easy use of PNG and POKEY and allows for very fast prototyping. 

 

 

 

[Ecernosoft]

8 minutes ago, Muddyfunster said:

Some advice, feel free to use or disregard as you see fit  

 

With any project, especially if you do not have a track record of completing projects, start small.

 

Take a pencil and a piece of paper (or an excel sheet, which is what I do, because reasons). Write down the things your game must have, the things you would like to have and the things that would be nice to have but are not make or break. Write down the features, prioritise them. Does your game need colour (160) or resolution (320). Game design is often an exercise in managing your resources and managing compromises depending on your platform. Basically - make a design document.

 

Your plan might be big, but start small and get something working first. Don't try to boil the ocean in one go. I can't reiterate enough, start small, get things working, scale things up. (When I built EXO, I started with a blob and single screen, I got stuff working, I then added the next feature, then the next and repeated). Yes you might be able to do 4000 screens if you compress or do some other funky process but how about starting with one screen that works? A.R.T.I. uses compression now, but I started by just getting stuff working. Build iteratively - get the engine working, add content later. Don't do something if you don't need to, it just uses resources, they are finite.

 

Trying to write a "sonic clone" from the get go probably won't end well if you have no experience of designing and completing a game (on any platform, not just the 7800) - see comments above. You will likely feel like you aren't achieving anything and your enthusiasm will fall and the project will die.

 

Decide on your target audience. If you want to do some funky artifacting trick that only 3 people will be able to experience properly because you need a tv from 1965 for it to work, then interest in your project will likely be low, that's going to be a curiosity at best. Some people have set ups to play on CRTs, many probably don't. Don't try do to something that shows 900 colours, yes it's clever, but for a game, it's not going to be practical and it wont work the same for everyone trying to play the game. Keep it simple, get the code and feel of the game right. Gfx can come later. With funky tricks, compression and stuff like that, just because you can do something, doesn't mean you should or need to. 

 

Think about your toolset and workflow. Don't be too quick to dismiss options like 7800Basic. It's a compiled language that outputs fast ASM and allows ASM to be mixed in with the language. It also allows easy use of PNG and POKEY and allows for very fast prototyping. 

 

 

 

Thanks.

7 hours ago, Cris1997XX said:

YOU are going to program this, right?

Duh!

 

10 hours ago, Traxx said:

you do the platforming part.....

Yes, although someone like @Muddyfunster would make something a lot better than me.

 

1 hour ago, Silver Back said:

You just want an idea for a game?  Or are you just looking for motivation?   Something with single screen levels would be cool (think donkey Kong style platformers). Maybe like Segas Monster Bash (master system) or an update to the 2600 Frankenstein. I guess I have Halloween on the brain lol but even like Nuts and Milk.

 

Idk I'm just throwing those out I think something single screen with platforming and tight controls and simple gameplay might be a good place to start.  That way you can get some basic elements in there really get the controls and feel down and then design multiple levels around that core. 

That could be possible.

[+Karl G]

Muddy has a lot of good advice here about building games a bit at a time. Here's my contribution: don't be afraid to rewrite your code as you go along! If you start small and add more and more to your engine and more content, you will find that the "good enough" code you had to get things working up to that point isn't the best for your game as it gets bigger and more complex. Sometimes a clean re-write of a section of code can be a great thing.

[Ecernosoft]

3 minutes ago, Karl G said:

Muddy has a lot of good advice here about building games a bit at a time. Here's my contribution: don't be afraid to rewrite your code as you go along! If you start small and add more and more to your engine and more content, you will find that the "good enough" code you had to get things working up to that point isn't the best for your game as it gets bigger and more complex. Sometimes a clean re-write of a section of code can be a great thing.

That's what I did quite often. I've got 30 ICT games- only 5 of which are finished.

 

[+Karl G]

2 minutes ago, Ecernosoft said:

That's what I did quite often. I've got 30 ICT games- only 5 of which are finished.

 

I mean within the same project, not starting over from scratch. I often start with routines which are "good enough" to get other parts of the game working, and then rewrite those sections as needed as the game gets more complex. I'm just saying that it's okay if all of the code is not perfect in your first implementation, and not to be afraid to rewrite large sections of it as your game evolves.

[Ecernosoft]

30 minutes ago, Karl G said:

I mean within the same project, not starting over from scratch. I often start with routines which are "good enough" to get other parts of the game working, and then rewrite those sections as needed as the game gets more complex. I'm just saying that it's okay if all of the code is not perfect in your first implementation, and not to be afraid to rewrite large sections of it as your game evolves.

That's also what I did with It's Conner time (A7800). If you go back and play old versions of It's Connner time, you'll notice how enemies have simpler AI or don't exist, Jumping routines are more basic, not being able to run, no horizontal momentum on scrolling in versions with  horiz. momentum, Or routines (Like flagpole AI) don't exist yet.

I like to go back and see my progress. The oldest version presnt (Level generation 2) doesn't even have the Conner sprite!

[ZippyRedPlumber]

Well you got Lyra to look forward to, which is Sonic-Inspired but not a full clone though...

[Eagle]

 

 

[Ecernosoft]

4 hours ago, ZippyRedPlumber said:

Well you got Lyra to look forward to, which is Sonic-Inspired but not a full clone though...

Hey @ZippyRedPlumber, what are your plans for LYRA? And I can help you out with data management, mode selection, specific atari stuff, etc...

I'd love to know what your plans are for this game, because chances are I'll play it.

[+TwentySixHundred]

My advise is to scrap the Mario and Sonic ideas. It's difficult to clone these iconic games. You'll just end up with a subpar copy that looks, plays and sounds terrible. Try something original or within your own skill set. Also what everyone else said is good advice

[Ecernosoft]

8 hours ago, TwentySixHundred said:

My advise is to scrap the Mario and Sonic ideas. It's difficult to clone these iconic games. You'll just end up with a subpar copy that looks, plays and sounds terrible. Try something original or within your own skill set. Also what everyone else said is good advice

ICT was never supposed to be a smb clone.

[+TwentySixHundred]

Never played ICT i just had a hunch as if i got a dollar everytime someone has come though wanting to make a clone i would be part of the millionaire club by now.

 

Here is some food for thought and reason behind why i say to scrap the ideas. For one Shigeru Miyamoto is a very talented developer despite how simple people may think his games are. They have alot going on behind the scenes and those are big shoes to fill. Whether Mario or Sonic, at best you're just going to have a clone that's just as good or in the most likely case worse.

 

Secondly and most importantly, Shigeru Miyamoto has stated in many interviews that he not only wanted an action platformer but rather he worked within the NES hardware capabilities. That alone was a major factor to how the game turned out. That's why out of most NES titles SMB has very little flicker and plays so well. His plan was to play within the system and his own strengths and not stray too far out that box.

 

So as you're talking about the 7800 which is a completely different beast. Many times you have mentioned why it's "better" from a technical standpoint. Well why not create something original that plays to the systems strength? I understand everyone wants to make a SMB or Sonic game. But in reality it's a shoot yourself in the foot scenario before even starting.

[Traxx]

Learn C,C++ and dev your game there first