retrosix Posted October 24, 2022 Share Posted October 24, 2022 For those that don't know or haven't heard, the CleanComp is my composite mod requiring zero parts removed and zero wires, for the Atari 2600 (should expand and work across many others but will get to that after). I've spent a good few month's perfecting this, and documenting/open sourcing all my findings and work here Extracting Composite Video (Atari 2600) - RetroSix Wiki and here TIA Video Faults (Atari 2600) - RetroSix Wiki I feel I have the output almost perfect now, and compared to the other mods I have been sent images of (AUV, generic transistor mods on eBay, and Longsomething.. engineering?) I feel I have a much cleaner output. I will let you guys be the judges however and I have only modded around 20 boards so far with it but all with consistent and good results. Should be at production stage now on this next build. Hopefully this version is perfection, if not damn close. Now includes: - Dedicated video rail regulator for all noise removal - Pixel retimer for perfect edge sharpness and color alignment - Color adjust for saturation control - Signal drivers to sharpen edges of original luma, chroma and sync pins to more align all signals - Teardropped traces to reduce reflection and aid in impedance matching over entire board - Output impedance and LPFs for perfect zero ghosting/smearing/noise/drooping output Final result now should have: - No ghosting/smearing/drooping/noise - Perfectly sharp pixels - Perfect color alignment to pixel edges - Perfect composite IRE voltage levels and impedances - No checkerboards on edges of brightness changes If so, it should be as clean as a composite signal can be. S-Video will be included too which in theory will be cleaner than the composite, but so far the composite is looking cleaner than any S-Video mods I have seen so we can only wait and see I am after people who want to be sent free units to install and test for me, and provide some feedback, test images/video output etc... and see if the wider audience have any issues or can replicate the image quality we get. Here is the pitfall guy in all his glory. This is before the latest board revisions above which should correct the pixel retiming and remove that blue/yellow from the edges of the tree and pull the color over to the right slightly to get it clean. Older video from previous version before some other cleanup/fixes is here Any games or tests you would like to see to show off the image let me know and I'll be sure to do them. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jentzsch Posted October 24, 2022 Share Posted October 24, 2022 12 minutes ago, retrosix said: Here is the pitfall guy in all his glory. ...and wrong colors. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retrosix Posted October 24, 2022 Author Share Posted October 24, 2022 That's the NTSC Pitfall on a PAL console 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt300ZXT Posted October 24, 2022 Share Posted October 24, 2022 Oooooh that looks like a lot of fun to install! I've been installing a bunch of the simple 1 transistor av mods on a bunch of my Ataris, only removing the 1 transistor near the audio coil, just to make them easier to plug in to various tvs but have considered doing one or two in some of the more complex UAV, Longhorn Engineer, etc just to see if there's a big time noticeable difference. I have a guy in Canada that makes a more complex board sending me one out to install in one of mine just to see what I think and excited for it to get here. Something like this would be cool to install to one of the cleaner Ataris I have that I'll end up keeping rather than selling off to further fun my collection. How big is the board? If it's the right size, it'd be great to just install it right where the big bulky rf modulator was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retrosix Posted October 24, 2022 Author Share Posted October 24, 2022 5 minutes ago, Matt300ZXT said: Oooooh that looks like a lot of fun to install! I've been installing a bunch of the simple 1 transistor av mods on a bunch of my Ataris, only removing the 1 transistor near the audio coil, just to make them easier to plug in to various tvs but have considered doing one or two in some of the more complex UAV, Longhorn Engineer, etc just to see if there's a big time noticeable difference. I have a guy in Canada that makes a more complex board sending me one out to install in one of mine just to see what I think and excited for it to get here. Something like this would be cool to install to one of the cleaner Ataris I have that I'll end up keeping rather than selling off to further fun my collection. How big is the board? If it's the right size, it'd be great to just install it right where the big bulky rf modulator was. I can happily send you a few to test out no problem. It fits right under the TIA nothing to remove and just a few solder blobs. Checkout the tiktok video in the post it shows a prototype under the TIA with some extra bits added that are now on the next build so there wont be anything hanging off lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+x=usr(1536) Posted October 24, 2022 Share Posted October 24, 2022 2 hours ago, retrosix said: I am after people who want to be sent free units to install and test for me, and provide some feedback, test images/video output etc... and see if the wider audience have any issues or can replicate the image quality we get. I'm definitely interested. Right now I have three UAVs awaiting install in a 2600 (Heavy Sixer), 5200 (2-port; also have the 2600 Cartridge Adapter), and 7800, as well as a 600XL that will need the NTSC monitor mod (which is why I haven't done that one yet), but would happily give your board a shot and reshuffle the UAVs elsewhere. All machines are NTSC. Can I be of help? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retrosix Posted October 24, 2022 Author Share Posted October 24, 2022 8 minutes ago, x=usr(1536) said: I'm definitely interested. Right now I have three UAVs awaiting install in a 2600 (Heavy Sixer), 5200 (2-port; also have the 2600 Cartridge Adapter), and 7800, as well as a 600XL that will need the NTSC monitor mod (which is why I haven't done that one yet), but would happily give your board a shot and reshuffle the UAVs elsewhere. All machines are NTSC. Can I be of help? Perfect. Yes if you could test them on the NTSC that would be good. I'll confirm it works on the one I have and then can send you some. Would love to know how it compares to the best (UAV?) and any improvements that you feel could be made too. I have 100pcs coming in a week for final tests and then I can get everyone who wants to test them out to send me their details 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+x=usr(1536) Posted October 24, 2022 Share Posted October 24, 2022 6 minutes ago, retrosix said: Perfect. Yes if you could test them on the NTSC that would be good. I'll confirm it works on the one I have and then can send you some. Would love to know how it compares to the best (UAV?) and any improvements that you feel could be made too. I have 100pcs coming in a week for final tests and then I can get everyone who wants to test them out to send me their details Sounds good. I'll shoot you a PM later today with info. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+-^CrossBow^- Posted October 24, 2022 Share Posted October 24, 2022 Just so I understand how this is installed. This essentially installed on the bottom of the PCB and you solder to the pins along the TIA itself then? Certainly provides a nice way to attach quickly that is for sure. I'm happy to purchase 1 or 2 to test into a sixer and a Vader I have. Or... even an sears video arcade II that I have on hand. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt300ZXT Posted October 24, 2022 Share Posted October 24, 2022 24 minutes ago, -^CrossBow^- said: Just so I understand how this is installed. This essentially installed on the bottom of the PCB and you solder to the pins along the TIA itself then? Certainly provides a nice way to attach quickly that is for sure. I'm happy to purchase 1 or 2 to test into a sixer and a Vader I have. Or... even an sears video arcade II that I have on hand. I have a SVAII as well that I'm keeping for my personal collection, whether I mod it or not (who am I kidding, I probably will). I dig the way it's setup compared to the standard 2600s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dopy25 Posted October 24, 2022 Share Posted October 24, 2022 (edited) Oh man I would love to give at least one of these a try. I have a few 4 switches and a Junior hanging around (all NTSC). Would love to see how this fits with the RF shield around the whole thing. Seems like there is plenty of room. So since nothing is removed, this works similar to the UAV where you can still use RF if you want? Edited October 24, 2022 by Dopy25 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Teleprompter Posted October 24, 2022 Share Posted October 24, 2022 Wow, this looks great. I would love to install, test and provide feedback for you. I have a number of systems and would be willing to give you a good evaluation. Thanks! -Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt300ZXT Posted October 24, 2022 Share Posted October 24, 2022 Dude's going to have all of his boards sold before he even gets a few free ones out for guys to sample and critique lol 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marauder666 Posted October 25, 2022 Share Posted October 25, 2022 (edited) No problems testing for you, got a pal jr board, which i use for testing. I use a simple fms6400 based mod on all the ones i do, its much better than the single transistor ones, so a good comparison. cant do it in my six switcher, its rgb. Got CRTs and flat panels to test with. Edited October 25, 2022 by marauder666 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retrosix Posted October 25, 2022 Author Share Posted October 25, 2022 12 hours ago, -^CrossBow^- said: Just so I understand how this is installed. This essentially installed on the bottom of the PCB and you solder to the pins along the TIA itself then? Certainly provides a nice way to attach quickly that is for sure. I'm happy to purchase 1 or 2 to test into a sixer and a Vader I have. Or... even an sears video arcade II that I have on hand. Yep. Like this. Then we will be selling Composite and S-Video 1.8 meter cables with bar wire ends on the other side, for easy soldering to the mod. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retrosix Posted October 25, 2022 Author Share Posted October 25, 2022 8 hours ago, Dopy25 said: Oh man I would love to give at least one of these a try. I have a few 4 switches and a Junior hanging around (all NTSC). Would love to see how this fits with the RF shield around the whole thing. Seems like there is plenty of room. So since nothing is removed, this works similar to the UAV where you can still use RF if you want? Yep RF is fully functional and can be connected at the same time also 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retrosix Posted October 25, 2022 Author Share Posted October 25, 2022 8 hours ago, ChiTown Chris said: Wow, this looks great. I would love to install, test and provide feedback for you. I have a number of systems and would be willing to give you a good evaluation. Thanks! -Chris Sure thing I'll get you a few sent out once they land 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alex_79 Posted October 25, 2022 Share Posted October 25, 2022 (edited) I have a few different models 2600 (PAL), CRTs and LCD TVs and I'm available to test if you still need it. (I imagine you already got a lot of volunteers!) I really like the fact that it doesn't require removing any component. A couple of questions: - Does it fit under the bottom RF shielding of the Jr and 4-switch consoles? Or do you need to remove the shield? - Are composite and s-video mutually exclusive, or is it possible to have both connector installed and choose the needed one each time depending on what TV/monitor you're going to use? - Do you already have a price range in mind for the finished product? Edited October 25, 2022 by alex_79 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt300ZXT Posted October 25, 2022 Share Posted October 25, 2022 Yeah, what this guy said. My crt tv I use (a really nice Sony Trinitron) has coaxial, s-video, composite, component too if that's possible. If it can be hooked up multiple ways I can test and get multiple video signal comparisons on the same tv. I also have a decent lcd tv, but it only has coaxial, composite, and component. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+x=usr(1536) Posted October 25, 2022 Share Posted October 25, 2022 5 hours ago, retrosix said: Then we will be selling Composite and S-Video 1.8 meter cables with bar wire ends on the other side, for easy soldering to the mod. Would it be possible to offer a single cable with both composite and S-Video outputs? It's extremely handy to have both available when doing video captures - use composite for your own display while testing, but simultaneously send S-Video to the capture unit for the best possible capture quality. It would essentially be the same as this cable, just minus the DIN connector. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+-^CrossBow^- Posted October 25, 2022 Share Posted October 25, 2022 17 minutes ago, x=usr(1536) said: Would it be possible to offer a single cable with both composite and S-Video outputs? It's extremely handy to have both available when doing video captures - use composite for your own display while testing, but simultaneously send S-Video to the capture unit for the best possible capture quality. It would essentially be the same as this cable, just minus the DIN connector. I believe such a cable exists from Monoprice, but I had nasty jail bars in my s-video output using it. What I did in my game room is use a nice set of RCAs for the composite and audio, and then zip tied a nice s-video cable to it to make it more or less all in one. Same thing could be done with using large heat shrink to keep it all together better. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+-^CrossBow^- Posted October 25, 2022 Share Posted October 25, 2022 5 hours ago, retrosix said: Yep. Like this. Then we will be selling Composite and S-Video 1.8 meter cables with bar wire ends on the other side, for easy soldering to the mod. Why didn't you go with full through hole to better hold the board in place, or perhaps castellated vias along the edges for the connections to the TIA? Just curious? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retrosix Posted October 25, 2022 Author Share Posted October 25, 2022 8 hours ago, alex_79 said: I have a few different models 2600 (PAL), CRTs and LCD TVs and I'm available to test if you still need it. (I imagine you already got a lot of volunteers!) I really like the fact that it doesn't require removing any component. A couple of questions: - Does it fit under the bottom RF shielding of the Jr and 4-switch consoles? Or do you need to remove the shield? - Are composite and s-video mutually exclusive, or is it possible to have both connector installed and choose the needed one each time depending on what TV/monitor you're going to use? - Do you already have a price range in mind for the finished product? Fits under the TIA. So no shield removal needed Composite, S-Video and RF can all be connected at the same time and all impedances and levels are unaffected by the other No price just yet but conservatively it will be £20 to £29 max. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retrosix Posted October 25, 2022 Author Share Posted October 25, 2022 4 hours ago, x=usr(1536) said: Would it be possible to offer a single cable with both composite and S-Video outputs? It's extremely handy to have both available when doing video captures - use composite for your own display while testing, but simultaneously send S-Video to the capture unit for the best possible capture quality. It would essentially be the same as this cable, just minus the DIN connector. You can solder both cables onto the mod, but I will also make a 2-in-1 composite + S-video cable that is just physically connected until near the end and offer that for sale too 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retrosix Posted October 25, 2022 Author Share Posted October 25, 2022 3 hours ago, -^CrossBow^- said: Why didn't you go with full through hole to better hold the board in place, or perhaps castellated vias along the edges for the connections to the TIA? Just curious? Not finished the shape yet. The final half castellated holes will be on production board (costs more to add them and no need to do at small test run level). But on that note, if you guys could measure me the distance you all get between the TIA pins (so the space I will have for my board) on as many models as possible that would be great. Basically finding the maximum size the board can be on the height to still fit inside the pins of all TIA chips that would be useful 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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