Intellivision RTO-MultiCart - new multicart

[Onlyfordj]

Ummm....could you make some of this cartridge?

[aotta]

5 minutes ago, Onlyfordj said:

Ummm....could you make some of this cartridge?

no, i made only a couple for me, and given support to some friends that builded a small batch for themself.

But 5-11under is building here some of his customized version:

 

[8bitwidgets.com]

4 hours ago, Onlyfordj said:

Ummm....could you make some of this cartridge?

if you're looking for one of these, just get a backbit.  The RTO seems to be more of a DIY thing for the folks making them.  Not making them for a larger audience.  

 

The backbit is basically 100% for original 125 and many homebrews, but at this time full JLP support isn't in place.  With enough inquiries from the INTV community I could see that change, but JLP while nice isn't really a major thing.  Most JLP games are still in cartridge format only which means there is no rom version to load.  

 

I'm still holding out to someday get a retail priced LTO which is the overall best option, but right now scalpers have skyrocketed the price on ebay so yea..  don't hold your breath for an LTO..  get a backbit and maybe someday we'll see retail LTOs come on the market again.  I love my backbit.  grateful the option exists.  I waited for two years for the backbit option to come on the scene..  

[aotta]

6 minutes ago, Caleb Garner said:

if you're looking for one of these, just get a backbit.  The RTO seems to be more of a DIY thing for the folks making them.  Not making them for a larger audience.  

 

You don't have an RTO, so i don't know how you could think the backbit may be better.... it's for sure a different thing, more expensive and multi platform, it use a proprietary format for roms, and has a 1mb max size limits. 

No multicart are done for larger audience, but who cares? 

But the most important thing is that anyone can now choose and make or buy an Intellivision Multicart, since the LTO and before the CC3 went out of production!

[carlsson]

From what I can tell, the BackBit has been on back order (he he) for a while too. Perhaps it is back in stock by now, which thus would make it the only readily available solution at the moment. Like you wrote, anyone who has the technical skills can assemble their own multicart using the RTO designs, but surely 80-90% of the Intellivision users lack such technical skills, and thus are dependent on others to manufacture it for them.

[8bitwidgets.com]

48 minutes ago, aotta said:

You don't have an RTO, so i don't know how you could think the backbit may be better...

From what I've heard the RTO doesn't do JLP and no intension of changing that.  Maybe that changed recently?  That's the only thing the backbit doesn't do.. and actually it does have some limited implementation with Grail of the Gods and Sorrow of G (without saving) working on it..  She could likely get more of them working, it just takes someone contacting her with the game and in my experience she's made it work.  I found a few bugs in some of the original 125 that she fixed as well.  

 

It has bank switching in place so it can play things like Bad Apple for the Intellivision.  Not sure what games are larger than 1mb for the intellivision (certainly not any of the original 125)..  I'm pretty sure I tested all of the usual suspects of free homebrews out there and i think basically all of them worked.  The recent Perfection game made by @Brian's Man Cave didn't work with it sadly.  Almost, but it would hang up during the placement of the random pieces for whatever reason.  

 

For people who are not DIY the backbit is better because it means that person can buy one right now and it will arrive without having to make anything.  Until someone steps up and says "I am making RTOs for people" I don't see the RTO as a viable option for most, but absolutely, it's great that it exists as an option.  the more the merrier.  Maybe if the backbit didn't exist, I probably would be someone looking to make (or have made) an RTO.  

 

Also I've come to appreciate the fragmentation of the intellivision multicarts.   It seems that even the Atari 2600 suffers from this.   Some sd carts don't play all homebrews which was interesting (and disappointing) to discover when I tried to play the homebrew robotron on my Uno Cart.. had to get a Harmony Cart for that to work..  who knew..   but hey at least those are in stock and each were around $50-60, which was a nice change heh.  

 

I don't know what the RTO costs to make or what people are charging.  The backbit is $130 + shipping last I checked, which IIRC is basically the same price as the retail LTO.   With chip shortages I'm betting the price isn't much cheaper (especially if you factor in the time / risk someone would have to spend to make it). Last I heard it's about a 2 month wait time..  which is at least a better length of time than "I dunno" with the 300 waiting LTOs.. heh heh..   the point with the backbit is not a wait because the developer has hung up their gloves (for an undetermined period of time) but just waiting on parts which makes all the difference in the world.  

 

 

 

 

 

[aotta]

i can agree...

only to add that cost of RTO depends in great part by the Teensy 4.1, i bought a couple from the productor in USA so i paid them 27$ each one, but prices are very different around the world and market. On ebay someone started selling the empty PCB for RTO too, but it's cheaper buy 5 of them from china (about 10$ all them). So, total price for a "power user" may be under 60$, and it's not so difficult to assemble it. Of course, if you are not able to solder an IC and you have to pay someone for doing, you could "turn" to Backbit, it's a great piece of hardware, i like it and maybe one day i'll buy one (i didn't realize it's again available!).

About compatibility, i think RTO and Backbit are quite the same (and i didn't found any rom bigger than "The big apple" until now, but never say never... ), and some feature LTO has, like encryption or new instructions, won't be implemented in no multicart since they are a LTO "encrypted" solution!

[RKOTower]

On 5/11/2023 at 6:31 PM, aotta said:

i can agree...

only to add that cost of RTO depends in great part by the Teensy 4.1, i bought a couple from the productor in USA so i paid them 27$ each one, but prices are very different around the world and market. On ebay someone started selling the empty PCB for RTO too, but it's cheaper buy 5 of them from china (about 10$ all them). So, total price for a "power user" may be under 60$, and it's not so difficult to assemble it. Of course, if you are not able to solder an IC and you have to pay someone for doing, you could "turn" to Backbit, it's a great piece of hardware, i like it and maybe one day i'll buy one (i didn't realize it's again available!).

About compatibility, i think RTO and Backbit are quite the same (and i didn't found any rom bigger than "The big apple" until now, but never say never... ), and some feature LTO has, like encryption or new instructions, won't be implemented in no multicart since they are a LTO "encrypted" solution!

Hello Andrea, first of all thanks a lot for your amazing project, and "Chapeau" to put your great job available for all.

I did two RTO (below picture) and they are perfectly running, I did many tests and checks with excellent results.

I have a question about the possibility to put the Roms into folders; currently the Roms must be placed in the the root of the SD, is it possible to modify the software to place them inside a folder ?

I.e. : the Rom "Burgertime" inside a folder name "Arcade"  "Arcade/Burgertime"

[aotta]

Hi RKOTower, happy you successfully made the RTO, and i love the case with golden remarks, i must buy a gold uniposca! 😝

About the folder handling, i used sdfat library that doesn't support "previous directory" command, so i implemented a simple code for handling ONLY ONE subdirectory level (i use the directory 0-9, A, B, C etc. for grouping and sorting roms).

Further sub level may be added, but i had no time neither motivation for working on it.

 

[RKOTower]

13 hours ago, aotta said:

Hi RKOTower, happy you successfully made the RTO, and i love the case with golden remarks, i must buy a gold uniposca! 😝

About the folder handling, i used sdfat library that doesn't support "previous directory" command, so i implemented a simple code for handling ONLY ONE subdirectory level (i use the directory 0-9, A, B, C etc. for grouping and sorting roms).

Further sub level may be added, but i had no time neither motivation for working on it.

 

Hi Andrea, thank you for your replay and clear explanation.

Your code to put the Rom folders into one subdirectory level it's a very good solution; I did it, but I got the same behaviour, when going inside the Rom folder the display show only the two dots and Kb.0. but not the Rom name. (see picture below)

I put the Rom folder inside a folder named "A" and I did the test using an SD formatted in FAT and one in FAT32 but same result.

Did I use the right procedure ?

 

[aotta]

You could try to rename the file, it may be too long and sw doesn't find the ".bin" as suffix and discard it.

Also, remind to put in the same folder the .cfg with same name if needed. And, 0.cfg file (the default mapping) must be placed always in root folder

[RKOTower]

3 hours ago, aotta said:

You could try to rename the file, it may be too long and sw doesn't find the ".bin" as suffix and discard it.

Also, remind to put in the same folder the .cfg with same name if needed. And, 0.cfg file (the default mapping) must be placed always in root folder

My Roms used for tests are ok with all items you reported, filename, extension, .cfg file etc.;  The issue was that I kept the .BIN with the .CFG into a folder with the same name of the Rom, instead to put them directly into the, i.e. "A" folder.     So, the issue has been fixed 😀

Also it's possible to create any name folders for grouping and sorting the Roms, that's perfect 👍

Thank you for your help and sorry to have bothered you off with a stupid question.

[aotta]

Glad to help you! I'm not good in documenting my software, and that is why i linked  project to here for all info i missed in github!

Edited June 28, 2023 by aotta

[RKOTower]

11 hours ago, aotta said:

Glad to help you! I'm not good in documenting my software, and that is why i linked  project to here for all info i missed in github!

I wrote an RTO User Manual (sorry, right now only in Italian) based on my tests and checks directly with the RTO.

As the Intellivision I own do not show the RTO "Splash screen" when is turned on, the manual reports the procedure to activate the RTO based on this behaviour.

I do not know if the RTO currently is performing the "Auto - Reset" of the console.

If there is any interest I can do an English version of it.

 

Manuale-Intellivision_RTO_Flash_Cart-V1_1.pdf

[aotta]

Thank you RKOTower, your guide could be useful, because at the moment in Italy there's the biggest concentration of RTOCart of the world, basing on the Italian RTO user group! 😂

About the missing splash screen and automatic reset at power on, you have to replace the capacitor in the reset circuit.

I had to do myself in one of my intelligision.

[RKOTower]

Thank you for the info, I'll replace the capacitor on the reset circuit 👍

[Crash7]

Who wants to make me one of these and put the games that I like to play in it? 

 

I wouldn't need the whole Intellivision stock, just the games I want to play. 😁

 

I love reading how you guys build these things but as far as actually building one? I have trouble making stick figures on notebook paper. LOL 

 

I got this from CollectorVision, it is one of the best Intellivision games I ever played, I saw it online just browsing and that is what started my kick on Intellivision again.  😁                                                                                                     

 

I guess my biggest claim to fame with Intellivision is I have bowled a 1200 series using the four bowlers all throwing left-handed with zero slickness and 16 pounds.                                                                                   

 

I have done this four times. 

 

 

I almost did it last week again for the fifth time, this is as close as I've gotten since I got back into the Intellivision world.

 

Edited July 1, 2023 by Crash7

[Tissemon]

Hi, I've posted some of my problems in another thread about the RTO, but I think it's better to continue with my experience here.

I made 4 RTOs and sold 3 of them.

On my Intellivision, most games work fine, but I have problems with some games like Dracula, Micro Surgeon and Antarctic adventures when I ran them from any of the 4 RTOs I built, using the default settings in the RTO firmware.

I have the original cart with Micro Surgeon and that one works fine on my system.

I sold 2 of the RTOs to my friends, and they work totally fine on their Intellivisions, so it's not some faulty chips in the RTO or something like that.

So I thought it was my Intellivision that had some bad components. So I've since recapped the Power board, replaced the two regulators, recapped the logic board, changed the two crystals on the logic board and tested both with composite mod and with the composite mod removed. But the same error remains.

I found out that I can get Dracula and Micro Surgeon to work on my INTV if I change the timing-values in the RTO Firmware (from the default: delRD=482; delWR=540 to delRD=422; delWR=480) and have experimented with a lot of different values, but I can't seem to get Antarctic Adventures to run without glitches.

 

I've now come to the conclusion that it is probably my PCB-version that is the problem. It seems that I have an INTV 1 with the same PCB as INTV 3 - meaning that I have no separate Color chip, but instead I have an extra PCB with a lot of stuff on it. Could this be the problem? Does anyone else have this PCB and can try the RTO, and some of the games I mentioned on it?

 

[8bitwidgets.com]

very interesting deduction.  I hope you can effectively isolate it and fix it for future users!   I have a Sears system and no RTO so I can't offer any help but keep it up!   So glad to see not only that the RTO is working but someone is making them for folks as well. 

[mr_me]

5 hours ago, Tissemon said:

Hi, I've posted some of my problems in another thread about the RTO, but I think it's better to continue with my experience here.

I made 4 RTOs and sold 3 of them.

On my Intellivision, most games work fine, but I have problems with some games like Dracula, Micro Surgeon and Antarctic adventures when I ran them from any of the 4 RTOs I built, using the default settings in the RTO firmware.

I have the original cart with Micro Surgeon and that one works fine on my system.

I sold 2 of the RTOs to my friends, and they work totally fine on their Intellivisions, so it's not some faulty chips in the RTO or something like that.

So I thought it was my Intellivision that had some bad components. So I've since recapped the Power board, replaced the two regulators, recapped the logic board, changed the two crystals on the logic board and tested both with composite mod and with the composite mod removed. But the same error remains.

I found out that I can get Dracula and Micro Surgeon to work on my INTV if I change the timing-values in the RTO Firmware (from the default: delRD=482; delWR=540 to delRD=422; delWR=480) and have experimented with a lot of different values, but I can't seem to get Antarctic Adventures to run without glitches.

 

I've now come to the conclusion that it is probably my PCB-version that is the problem. It seems that I have an INTV 1 with the same PCB as INTV 3 - meaning that I have no separate Color chip, but instead I have an extra PCB with a lot of stuff on it. Could this be the problem? Does anyone else have this PCB and can try the RTO, and some of the games I mentioned on it?

 

I think all the pal and secam Intellivisions lack the colour chip.  They also run at a different clock rate than ntsc Intellivisions.  I also notice you removed the rf modulator..  What model number is your Intellivision and what model number do your friends have?

[mr_me]

9 hours ago, Tissemon said:

Hi, I've posted some of my problems in another thread about the RTO, but I think it's better to continue with my experience here.

I made 4 RTOs and sold 3 of them.

On my Intellivision, most games work fine, but I have problems with some games like Dracula, Micro Surgeon and Antarctic adventures when I ran them from any of the 4 RTOs I built, using the default settings in the RTO firmware.

I have the original cart with Micro Surgeon and that one works fine on my system.

I sold 2 of the RTOs to my friends, and they work totally fine on their Intellivisions, so it's not some faulty chips in the RTO or something like that.

So I thought it was my Intellivision that had some bad components. So I've since recapped the Power board, replaced the two regulators, recapped the logic board, changed the two crystals on the logic board and tested both with composite mod and with the composite mod removed. But the same error remains.

I found out that I can get Dracula and Micro Surgeon to work on my INTV if I change the timing-values in the RTO Firmware (from the default: delRD=482; delWR=540 to delRD=422; delWR=480) and have experimented with a lot of different values, but I can't seem to get Antarctic Adventures to run without glitches.

 

I've now come to the conclusion that it is probably my PCB-version that is the problem. It seems that I have an INTV 1 with the same PCB as INTV 3 - meaning that I have no separate Color chip, but instead I have an extra PCB with a lot of stuff on it. Could this be the problem? Does anyone else have this PCB and can try the RTO, and some of the games I mentioned on it?

 

You must mean the boards with the pair of 3668 chips plus the two LM chips like this one.  Which do your friends have?

 

[Crash7]

12 hours ago, Tissemon said:

Hi, I've posted some of my problems in another thread about the RTO, but I think it's better to continue with my experience here.

I made 4 RTOs and sold 3 of them.

On my Intellivision, most games work fine, but I have problems with some games like Dracula, Micro Surgeon and Antarctic adventures when I ran them from any of the 4 RTOs I built, using the default settings in the RTO firmware.

I have the original cart with Micro Surgeon and that one works fine on my system.

I sold 2 of the RTOs to my friends, and they work totally fine on their Intellivisions, so it's not some faulty chips in the RTO or something like that.

So I thought it was my Intellivision that had some bad components. So I've since recapped the Power board, replaced the two regulators, recapped the logic board, changed the two crystals on the logic board and tested both with composite mod and with the composite mod removed. But the same error remains.

I found out that I can get Dracula and Micro Surgeon to work on my INTV if I change the timing-values in the RTO Firmware (from the default: delRD=482; delWR=540 to delRD=422; delWR=480) and have experimented with a lot of different values, but I can't seem to get Antarctic Adventures to run without glitches.

 

I've now come to the conclusion that it is probably my PCB-version that is the problem. It seems that I have an INTV 1 with the same PCB as INTV 3 - meaning that I have no separate Color chip, but instead I have an extra PCB with a lot of stuff on it. Could this be the problem? Does anyone else have this PCB and can try the RTO, and some of the games I mentioned on it?

 

 

I have a Super Pro System I think that's the same thing as an INTV III isn't it?

Edited July 18, 2023 by Crash7

[+fdr4prez]

15 minutes ago, Crash7 said:

 

I have a Super Pro System I think that's the same thing as an INTV III isn't it?

Not necessarily. 

 

At that time they just grabbing whatever was laying around and hodge podging things together 

[Tissemon]

6 hours ago, mr_me said:

You must mean the boards with the pair of 3668 chips plus the two LM chips like this one.  Which do your friends have?

 

Mine is a model 5370 (serial no P3049465). The white PCB says 2609-3239C and the extra PCB says 5370-7419 Rev XIII.

I forgot to check what versions my friends had on theirs, but one of them had been through quite a lot of Intellivisions and this was the first time he saw an INTV 1 with the PCB:s I had in mine, so I guess my revision is pretty rare.

When I tried to google Intellivision PCBs to find if somebody else had the same, the closest thing I found was somebody with a INTV3 that hade a green main PCB with the same extra PCB as I have in mine, here: https://www.the-liberator.net/site-files/retro-games/hardware/Intellivision-III/intellivision-iii.htm

[goldendark007]

Could someone post or PM me a BOM for this? I want to know the capacitor and resistor sizes (if you can tell me how I get them off the Kicad that would be fine too). Also what kind of buttons do people prefer? I ordered the remaining parts and plan to have the PCBs printed, as well as the shells. Are there any preferred PCB fabs with a "fast enough" turn-around time? I was looking at PCBways, Gerberlabs, and OSH Park (but I feel like the OSH Park PCBs would be too thick). Any help would be appreciated. Same if any suggestions for printing the shells (my 3D printer is currently in storage). Prefer shipping from within US if possible. I modded an Intellivision for RGB earlier this year and was looking for a flash cart - this is awesome! Thanks in advance.