What would you want to be able to buy from Atari…

[Giles N]

1 hour ago, harmonyFM said:

delights since they would not be profitable ventures.

… one needs to balance investments/production costs between fast profit vs slow profit over time having the staying power if one wants to come back into the market.

 

That could mean, accepting that some things would be close to zero profit in money, but getting known (recognition/reputation), while using other things as the main-income lines (guess the Atari 50th Anniversary would be such a thing, - and even with this one they could still be smart and make more money, with some smart decisions).

[Giles N]

5 hours ago, harmonyFM said:

There's a reason that aftermarket consoles usually go for reproducing Nintendo/Sega before anything else,

Ok, this one’s interesting.

I don’t say I disagree.

Statistics are what they are.

So, what things do you think are involved in this? 

And are you refering to mostly game-titles, or mini-consoles, retro-systems - or all?

What makes an Atari-fanatic, well, that?

Wouldn’t there also be retro-fanatics in the more general sense, which would go for either collecting anything of quality/fun and/of collect-it-all -if-it’s retro.

Not advocating for a certain interest-line here, just curious to peoples’ thoughts as to either ‘why Atari-fan?’, or ‘why Retro-gamer?’.

[harmonyFM]

On 7/21/2023 at 2:29 PM, Giles N said:

a) make it widely known, b) reproducing exclusive re-runs of titles they already own, c) they buy (back) licenses, and continue re-runs of such re-runs, d) after a proper period after the hardware-cart-reruns, you can but them on an inbuilt e-shop for lesser price, e) as the e-shop store is filled up with more snd more Atari-titles interest will hopefully accumulate

a) Everyone who cares to know already does, there’s not a lot of growth beyond people who grew up with it and a small number of people who got into it by retro means. Of the latter Atari is going to get the smallest slice of any major brand after Nintendo, Sega, and Sony.

 

b) They do this with flashbacks so yeah that would work but it doesn’t really scratch the “new hardware” itch

 

c) This would be nice but if they had the opportunity to buy back these licenses they would done so already, there’s no money for Atari there

 

d) and e) why would they go through the trouble of making all this when they can skip it and sell digital copies with no overhead on existing stores instead of trying to muscle in on territory pretty well dominated by Valve and the other aforementioned big boys

 

I would love for there to be new Atari hardware that isn’t a grift trading on nostalgia to sucker people like us in but the reality is we are a small subculture(Atari fans) of a subculture(retro nerds) of a subculture(gamers) and unless all of us win the lottery or inherit money from our long lost uncle Nolan we’re not gonna see new Atari hardware in our lifetime. The best we can expect is more like Atari 50, which is enough for me personally.

 

e: also this is even before we consider how bad most Atari consoles would look blown up on a modern television chunky soup graphics are not what popular media is made from these days.

Edited July 24, 2023 by harmonyFM

[Giles N]

8 hours ago, harmonyFM said:

c) This would be nice but if they had the opportunity to buy back these licenses they would done so already, there’s no money for Atari there

If they  had   had  the opportunity, they would.

Ok, - so they’ve not  had  the monetary means to do so.

Perhaps they have (a chance) now, or will have more chances in the future?

Perhaps, - given some sales of the 50th - they will be able to buy back, obtain in one way or another - IPs or licenses to release again, either on exclusive carts and/or compilations for Steam/PS4,5/Switch/XboXS.

 

If that would happen, it could mean profit for Atari on both fronts: both repro-carts and compilations.

 

- - -

 

Now, as to new-hardware-itch, I kind of see your point.

I’m unsure Valve and the Big Boys have licensed ways to emulate Aliens vs Predator (on Jaguar), or Batman Sega CD, etc, even though these could run all sorts of emulation smoothly as such.

 

On hardware that could run originals (or licensed repro’s) and homebrews -  one could find a uniting platform for retro-interested people.

 

I didn’t know about the Playmaji or whatever it’s called. I thought - when writing the Poll, that if Atari could produce stuff like the VCS, they could also produce themselves original hardware and software to run old, original Atari-things, and then have a console that would run Steam, Atari VCS and also - on top of it; read and run 2600, 5200, 7800, Lynx and Jaguar things, which would make one console of hardware-interest to all and every Atari-retro-collector, of course more so and less so with individuals, even regions, - and also welcome the homebrew-community to use it.

 I thought Atari may be able to do such a thing, given that they already had released a first VCS, then a stronger VCS.

 

Therefore I thought a third one would be doable or a cart-slot-add on for the latest VCS.

 
When things get so spread-out and limited in scope, then of course less interest is generated.

 

If they hadn’t released any VCS’s and only Flashbacks … perhaps I hadn’t thought about it…?

 

Who knows… I think it was through this thread and the thread on Atari 50th I learned about they going bankrupt in 2013 or whatever year it was.

 
But factor number 1, was that the VCSesses already had a sort of release, therefore I thought Atari would like to come back with hardware, and I thought a natural asset (not the only one, and should’ve had option for Super VCS which plays all older carts from 2600-Jag,  - but the time to add categories to a poll, before it closes isn’t that long) for a Atari-hardware-unit would be enormous back-capabiliies - since Atari wouldn’t for a long time afford all the licenses.

 

So, I thought - how much extra would such an asset cost, given that the VCS was like 250-300$?
I thought they’d be able to have someone make something extra for an additional 50$ perhaps, finding good partners who’d use the VCS-hsrdware smart, and then the win for Atari would be to have all Atari-fans set their eyes on one unit, which would run all originals and homebrews, while they could continue to release compilations on multi-platform, but perhaps always have it cheaper on the VCS, or inbuilt bonus-content, which would cost more to get on other platforms.

 

As it is now, things are spread out - a VCS, a Playmaji-modul, and compilations on multiplatform.

 
And hey, I agree that it would seem the money for Atari right now would be in creating interest in these compilations, and later obtain more IPs and licenses, and improve the quality of the ReCharged series.

 

So my original thought was ‘if they can produce a VCS, then they ought to make it hardware backwards-compatible with everything Atari, to unify the Atari-interest there for thise already interested, and reward that interest, while producing and releasing the thing they have (used to) anyway.

 

I thought - if they think they can sell a VCS for a price with profit, then please add full backwards-compatible cart-slot-line-up, add to the price and, I would think they would increase the chances of profit…by getting all already existing Atari-interest to be in one place, and from there gather new Atari-fans, while not estranging Steam-users etc,
 

 

Edited July 25, 2023 by Giles N

[Giles N]

8 hours ago, harmonyFM said:

d) and e) why would they go through the trouble of making all this when they can skip it and sell digital copies with no overhead on existing stores

The idea here, was that Atari wouidn’t be likely to buy back every thinkable and unthinkable license.

Yet, many of the best titles for their console-line-up, are made by other companies.

Since Atari would perhaps naturally want to rebuild reputation by starting with the Atari-crowd, - and making it a bit easier for new-collectors to collect, backwards-compatibility would come in handy, to create interest in selling one hardware-unit.

 

They wouldn’t make money through not-selling titles they don’t own license for, but by selling a console to atari-fans which would seem pretty neat, be it for 2600-only collectors or everything-atari-collectors, and through VCS-mode, make new games demanding modern hardware, and running the Arcade stuff, compilations etc.

It could also have helped the atari homebrew-community (to have kr all in one place) - a community Atari shouldn’t overlook.

 

As it is now, the 2600/7800 module for Playmaji’s console and/or integration with VCS, may be secondary in revenue, or perhaps zero - unless they do some smart moves -, but they may gain reputation in retro-circles, and as older titles and franchises get remembered, there may come a time when Atari moves from ReCharging older titles, to making 8th and 9th Gen. AAA-follow-ups to titles they’re known for (let’s say ‘Star Raiders Cosmos - Massive Multiplayer Online, or ‘Alien Brigade - Ultimate Invasion, a full FPS with 100 levels set on Earth-bases, Moon, Mothership, Aliens’ homeplanet, not too dark in story but fairly brutal and intense with lavish levels and settings, like Expendables VS Aliens in tone, mixed with rock music and cinematic score… anyone who’d like that?)

 

—-
As of now, making the most the 50th Anniversary and getting some retro-reputation, are at least a starting point, if what they want is to get back to their original position as at least is possible.

 

One gotta start somewhere.

Edited July 25, 2023 by Giles N

[Giles N]

@harmonyFM

 

Do you know if Atari is inclined to keep up pursuing the VCS-project, building it up and expanding it…?

[Giles N]

If Atari still wants to make money by selling the VCS, or a version of the VCS, they should optimize it for retro-gaming, as Atari per today is mostly known for their great achievements with the 2600 in home-console-market and Arcades between 1978-1984.

- this could be inbuilt screen-filters, which soften up the images to look more CRT-soft in lines, filters which make vector-lines ‘shine’ or appear somewhat thicker, subtle filters making HD, 4K etc, to make subtle-smoothing effects between high-to-low-contrasting areas.

- an AI bot, finding all the manuals and available public info on older games

 

- - -

To newer gamers:

- why just PC-mode? Perhaps it would be possible to have it run everything Android as well? (There may be many unknowns for me here though). Having both the PC-world and the Android-world at your fingertips could be neat; tons of stuff to do, to get, to play, right there on the same unit.

Some sort of hardware + software may translate touch-screen to controller). 
(If Android would be integrated, then an App for Android-VCS and vice versa, could let Android-users use their tablets to create stuff for the VCS, or parts of things to be used for lets say VCS game-creation.)

- if Atari wants to pursue asserting the VCS as a combi console/retro-unit-console/PC; then they must of course in time make games that have something unique on the VCS, either (for same price as on other platforms), early releases, extra content, special game-community-things (you log in on tournaments, and a generated livestream on YouTube shows the event, lesfing players, top scores etc).

If the project is to make money on hardware, your hardware must do some stuff that are either exclusive or do it better than competitors.

 

One such thing may be having PC-function, VCS-function, PlayMegs/Playmaji-function, perhaps Android-function in one unit.

 

- - -

Perhaps it’s already being used, but owners of the VCS should get the opportunity to get Beta-versions of games-in-developement with good opportunities to give constructive feedback, not just debugging, but to make new gen. Atari games as good as possible.

 

This would attract people of the kind who wants to have a say in how their games ought to be.

- - -

 

But all this, is mostly things that would (possibly) sell a more optimized version of the VCS.

 

- - -  

 

As to making money right now, I think it would be wise to not let the steam die out of the Atari 50th - they should make sure people stay interested in it.

[zzip]

10 hours ago, Giles N said:

To newer gamers:

- why just PC-mode? Perhaps it would be possible to have it run everything Android as well? (There may be many unknowns for me here though). Having both the PC-world and the Android-world at your fingertips could be neat; tons of stuff to do, to get, to play, right there on the same unit.

You can run x86 Android on the VCS in PC Mode.   You could also run an Android emulator like Bluestacks in any OS you install.

[Giles N]

10 hours ago, zzip said:

You can run x86 Android on the VCS in PC Mode.   

Perhaps having three (or more) big main-setting buttons on a pre-title screen would make it feel console-appealing… ie.super-userfriendly and super-simple and ‘clean’ in layout.

 

It should have things in hardware and software, that makes it stand apart from just a pure PC, and things making it something else than just another console.

[electronicsibley]

With Atari already headed down the path of partnering with Polymega (and becoming an investor), I would encourage them to co-brand the 7800/2600 attachment they’re planning. 
 

Polymega uses clever names for the attachments they’re producing for other past systems. They’re obvious, but not so “on-the-nose” that they might infringe on the respective copyrights. Since Atari is much more tied in on the effort, they should collaborate to add their logo to the hardware, and clearly indicate that it’s for playing 7800/2600 games, vs it being called the “xx00” module or something. 
 

This may be burying the lead a bit, but I don’t think it would be wise for Atari to get any deeper into hardware on their own any time soon. I’m actually pretty impressed with the Polymega collaboration the more I think about it. It’s not perfect, but it leverages the hardware they have produced, and it spreads the risk. 
 

Now, if they can get it ready for sale on the next 6 months, I’ll be surprised and thrilled! I do plan to pick up VCS and the accompanying Polymega kit once it’s available. 

[Giles N]

11 hours ago, electronicsibley said:

Atari is much more tied in on the effort, they should collaborate to add their logo to the hardware, and clearly indicate that it’s for playing 7800/2600 games, vs it being called the “xx00” module or something. 

…it should preferably also be able to play any homebrew for the 2 (or 3 *) systems, - really just anything produced to play on original hardware, since many 2600 and 7800 collecters probably are invested in these (since we write 2023, not 1991)  - or will be - if more homebrews keep coming up (I hope AA will get more original titles - on quality-level with the best stuff produced out there -, in their shop, and my hopes the best homebrewers out there, will create novel franchises of their own).

 

Except for that, I think working with PolyMega might be the right thing to go for as of now, but 

 

a) with plans for more consoles ( perhaps the * Lynx should be first out, as it is small in physical size, is 16-bit, fairly reputable as to having some really mind-blowing titles for the time, even though the library isn’t super-big). 
* Actually, best would be to get a * Lynx-slot fitted into the modules already now, so it doesn’t feel too narrow, minimalistic

 

b) bundle it all together when produced (like VCS only standard pack or VCS + PolyMega bundle pack, with respective price tags)

 

c) at release of VCS + PolyMega, release a line-up of exclusive 2600, 7800 (and * Lynx- , if such a slot will be incorporated prior to launch) repro-titles with nice packaging, background materials, booklets, collectible figurines, (and of course a plush-Scraps-Dog on the Super Exclusive Scrapyard Dog Cart, he-he 😉🐶), posters and what-not the League of Nerds would want…

… and if possible, these re-runs/repro-exclusives could have all sorts of additional cheat-modes coded into them … 

Edited July 30, 2023 by Giles N

[electronicsibley]

A, B, and C - 100%! This collab is gonna’ be what they make of it. If they don’t generate some buzz, and back it with quality physical content, the whole thing will die on the vine. The same could be said for digital content on the VCS as is - but they seem to be picking up steam. I’m sure the homebrew scene will have the physical content covered either way. 
 

Here’s hoping it’s a success, and it generates more business for Atari Age (Al), and all the homebrewers. 
 

I’m a bit curious how receptive folks would be to a strategic investment by Atari to help grease the skids for key homebrew production and manufacturing. They seem to be making those types of investments anyway, and there’s a lot of expertise here that’s genuine and dedicated. 

[Giles N]

33 minutes ago, electronicsibley said:

This collab is gonna’ be what they make of it. If they don’t generate some buzz, and back it with quality physical content, the whole thing will die on the vine. The same could be said for digital content on the VCS as is - but they seem to be picking up steam.

… and perhaps picking up Android too … 😁

… sorry couldn’t help it… 

 

- - -

Yeah, it’s good to see they seem to build up things from what they have (of IPs and retro-reputation) with recharging things and thus building a bigger library.

 

- - -
 

Eventually, with time, they may need to invest in AAA VCS-exclusive title, either exclusive for 1 year, or exclusive as such. But I guess that would be when the VCS (+) would be ready for a bigger market.

 

They may need to get more people on board with increasing the interest in Atari 50th, by adding solid DLCs which can only be used if you have the 50th basic-pack.

 

- - -

 

I think already there is some communication between Atari and (a) homebrewer(s) already.

What they’ll use the expertise for is an open question to us here (AA), so far I think…

 

Hope they make most of it…

Edited July 31, 2023 by Giles N

[ledzep]

Damn, did I stumble onto this late...

 

On the assumption that this is a feverdream of what I would want to be able to buy from Atari (i.e. "If I ran Atari"), not what would be the best move to make Atari relevant/profitable (my fantasy couldn't give a fuck about that), my first thoughts are -

 

1) Limited runs of old arcade games.  For example, for the next X months you can order and receive a new Missile Command arcade cabinet that would be component-for-component the same as the original.  Not the same exact '80s designs necessarily (modern improvements to old board designs and power supplies are welcomed), but work the same way - controllers, CPU boards, monitors, etc.  Yes, supplies of new raster and vector monitors, too, in small runs.

 

I'd want this for 2 reasons.  First, to get more of the great arcade games exactly as they were before in terms of playing experience, at a "reasonable" price.  I don't want to hear about emulation or PCs, they already exist.  Second, this would by default supply the market and owners with new parts to repair dead/dying originals.  The new limited run games would be subtlety/obviously different - artwork, mostly.  But this would supply new cabinet parts, too, to repair water-logged originals, for example.  Manufactured on demand, limited run.  Don't tell me that robotic manufacturing couldn't pull this off.  This thought came from remembering how Fender, I believe, sells new runs of "old" guitars, made exactly the same way (or so they claim) as originally, so you can hopefully end up with the same feel/sound as the way-too-expensive and rare originals.

 

This would then naturally lead to -

 

2) Conversion kits for existing arcade games with new games programmed specifically for that old game's control layout (doesn't have to be related to the original game at all, just needs that hardware combination).  For example, a new CPU board for a Missile Command that is a new game that uses a trak-ball controller and the fire buttons.  No need to buy a whole new arcade cabinet, just get the conversion kit, swap it in (or a daughter board).  This would be done concurrently with each limited run game, meaning a new Tempest conversion board that would use a spinner and 1 or 2 fire buttons wouldn't appear until the limited run of the original Tempest game.  Basically a The Empire Strikes Back into a Star Wars for every arcade cabinet, one at a time.  If truly needed, maybe a new control panel, too, like if the new game for the Missile Command cabinet required 5 fire buttons instead of just the 3 (but you reuse the trak-ball).  But hopefully not necessary, the new game was thought through enough to use the same controls.

 

So this would be the giant, clumsy version of new carts for home console games.  But instead of carts, obviously, it's giant boards and possibly new/different control panels.  Since Star Wars already has the Empire conversion kit, this time there would be a Rogue One or Jedi vector conversion kit game that still uses the yoke.  I'd make a special case add-on for Missile Command, that topper that was designed but abandoned, add the code and chips to the Missile Command CPU board (for extra $$$, of course), maybe get original programmers to add wished-for extras to their games that Atari wouldn't allow at the time as a game option.

 

3) A sort of APX (Atari Program Exchange) for homebrewists.  Meaning pay (or share in the profits with) homebrew programmers to make new games for the various consoles, supply the carts/boards, manuals and boxes (print on demand).  But the games would have a consistent look with that cool box art like in the Art Of Atari book.  Of course programmers who don't like that arrangement are still free to make the games themselves or release them on AtariAge (or elsewhere) but hopefully the status of an "official" Atari new game (with an official game catalog number) would draw some programmers to the APX and have that old-school atari box look.  Even allow previously sold homebrew games to appear in the APX with new art, especially for those games that are out of print for whatever reason.  And not those shitty silver label boxes, either, but the original style solid color boxes.  Of course any 5200 games would be silver, I know.

 

4) Short runs of new consoles that play the old game carts.  I love the 2600 but I'd be more interested in a new run of 5200s along with completed never-released games (through the APX) like Xevious and Millipede, and the Asteroids style buttons controller.  Chip for chip compatible, whether that means remanufacture old chips (for repair parts supplies) or make some updates for improvements.  The consoles could look different from the originals, but still have the cartridge slots and controller ports.  Component outs I suppose, no more of that TV switch box nonsense.

 

If it's possible, expand the memory or capabilities of the various consoles, the wished-for "why couldn't Atari have added X" fixes.  But backwards compatible so that the old games still work, otherwise forget it.  So something like more sprites for the 5200 (if that's even possible) or more memory for the 2600, I don't know.  A second fire button for the 2600!!

[zzip]

2 hours ago, ledzep said:

3) A sort of APX (Atari Program Exchange) for homebrewists.  Meaning pay (or share in the profits with) homebrew programmers to make new games for the various consoles, supply the carts/boards, manuals and boxes (print on demand).  But the games would have a consistent look with that cool box art like in the Art Of Atari book.  Of course programmers who don't like that arrangement are still free to make the games themselves or release them on AtariAge (or elsewhere) but hopefully the status of an "official" Atari new game (with an official game catalog number) would draw some programmers to the APX and have that old-school atari box look.  Even allow previously sold homebrew games to appear in the APX with new art, especially for those games that are out of print for whatever reason.  And not those shitty silver label boxes, either, but the original style solid color boxes.  Of course any 5200 games would be silver, I know.

They are getting into this territory with a bunch of homebrews appearing on VCS recently and others going on cart.

 

2 hours ago, ledzep said:

If it's possible, expand the memory or capabilities of the various consoles, the wished-for "why couldn't Atari have added X" fixes.  But backwards compatible so that the old games still work, otherwise forget it.  So something like more sprites for the 5200 (if that's even possible) or more memory for the 2600, I don't know.  A second fire button for the 2600!!

problem is few developers take advantage of such upgrades as it limits their audience, so it really isn't worth the time and money to do.

[Giles N]

3 hours ago, ledzep said:

1) Limited runs of old arcade games.  For example, for the next X months you can order and receive a new Missile Command arcade cabinet that would be component-for-component the same as the original.  Not the same exact '80s designs necessarily (modern improvements to old board designs and power supplies are welcomed), but work the same way - controllers, CPU boards, monitors, etc.

They do things like this from time to time. 
If it’s its so close to actual old arcade machines as you’d like I don’t know, but thay had Missile Command in a sort of reproduction cabinet, and now they have Tempest and Centipede.

They also sell reproductions of circuit-boards… but, I’m not really sure how much fun those are, unless you happen to have some old original cabinets at home…

 

 

https://atari.com/products/tempest-legacy-edition-arcade

 

«

Atari has partnered with the arcade reproduction specialists at Arcade1Up to create a new series of full-size arcade cabinets. These authentic and in-demand cabinets are officially licensed and easy to assemble for years of gameplay!

Features

This Arcade1Up arcade machine allows players to switch between 12 classic Atari titles including: Asteroids, Centipede, Major Havoc, Missile Command, Akka Arrh, Crystal Castles, Tempest, Millipede, Gravitar, Liberator, Asteroids Deluxe, Space Duel (1 Player).»

 

Edited August 2, 2023 by Giles N

[+x=usr(1536)]

1 hour ago, zzip said:

They are getting into this territory with a bunch of homebrews appearing on VCS recently and others going on cart.

This begs the question: since they outsource all of their development, how many of these games can actually be considered to be homebrews?

 

Granted, that could lead to a lot of splitting of hairs - but if they're acting as the first-party publisher of a contracted game, how is that ultimately any different from having the development done in-house?

[Giles N]

4 hours ago, ledzep said:

Don't tell me that robotic manufacturing couldn't pull this off.  This thought came from remembering how Fender, I believe, sells new runs of "old" guitars, made exactly the same way (or so they claim) as originally

Well … Fender-guitar with Atari-logo, wouldn’t that be something…!

Edited August 2, 2023 by Giles N

[zzip]

38 minutes ago, Giles N said:

5 hours ago, ledzep said:

 

Well … Fender-guitar with Atari-logo, wouldn’t that be something…!

Available in three models!

 

[ledzep]

5 hours ago, zzip said:

problem is few developers take advantage of such upgrades as it limits their audience, so it really isn't worth the time and money to do.

 

That makes sense in reality but I'm talking in terms of what I want to be able to buy from Atari.  I would think that is a developer made a must-own game, and it requires the upgraded/expanded 5200, that would be an incentive to buy the new console.  Some modern games require the best GPU cards, yes?  So if you really want to play that game, go get that card.  There would be nothing stopping the homebrewist from making the 5200 version and the 5200+ version, either.

 

Also, if a new expanded console was being sold, that would be a better option than old eBay original that maybe/hopefully works and probably need upgrades for TV connections, anyways.  As more of the new/improved 5200s were being sold, the audience for expanded 5200 games would increase.  This would tie into the APX idea, Atari would encourage new games using the new features (if they existed).

 

4 hours ago, Giles N said:

They do things like this from time to time. 
If it’s its so close to actual old arcade machines as you’d like I don’t know, but thay had Missile Command in a sort of reproduction cabinet, and now they have Tempest and Centipede.

They also sell reproductions of circuit-boards… but, I’m not really sure how much fun those are, unless you happen to have some old original cabinets at home…

 

 

https://atari.com/products/tempest-legacy-edition-arcade

 

«

Atari has partnered with the arcade reproduction specialists at Arcade1Up to create a new series of full-size arcade cabinets. These authentic and in-demand cabinets are officially licensed and easy to assemble for years of gameplay!

Features

This Arcade1Up arcade machine allows players to switch between 12 classic Atari titles including: Asteroids, Centipede, Major Havoc, Missile Command, Akka Arrh, Crystal Castles, Tempest, Millipede, Gravitar, Liberator, Asteroids Deluxe, Space Duel (1 Player).»

 

Burn those abominations!!  Hahaha, my brother has the Tempest one, he wants his kids to understand what "arcade machine" means without having to buy a bunch of arcade cabinets he has no room for.  I've played it, the spinner is decent.  But it's like the Olive Garden of Italian restaurants, if that makes sense.

 

No, that is not what I'm talking about.  An LCD screen?  AN LCD SCREEN?!?!  That is straight garbage and has no bearing on reproduction arcade cabinets.  I'm not aware of Atari or anybody else reproducing exact(-ish) copies of original arcade cabinets (same dimensions out of wood) with CRTs and everything else.  My brother would seriously consider a faithful reproduction of a Major Havoc (I might, as well), good enough excuse to get The Promised End added to it.

 

3 hours ago, x=usr(1536) said:

This begs the question: since they outsource all of their development, how many of these games can actually be considered to be homebrews?

 

Granted, that could lead to a lot of splitting of hairs - but if they're acting as the first-party publisher of a contracted game, how is that ultimately any different from having the development done in-house?

 

Because in-house is in-house, meaning Atari employee paid by Atari to develop games (or whatever else) and probably based off of their ideas (actually, they should probably assemble a small team to do just that).  A homebrew programmer is doing things on his own time, not discussing the game with Atari, just presenting a complete game to be wrapped in APX clothing and sold through Atari.  I guess in a sense it would be like how, back in the day, some Atari arcade games were actually Namco games (Dig Dug, Pole Position) and Atari just put their marquee on them vs. in-house programmers making Centipede or Tempest.

[ledzep]

On 2/15/2023 at 2:44 PM, Keatah said:

As far as wanting a certain accessory or product? How about a premium travel or carry case for the knooh VCS? Something foam-padded with storage for 4 controllers, adapters, some cables, and removable flash media? Something to lend a bit of ritualization and presence to the console.

 

That kind of thing, the physical-ness of setting connecting up our old consoles was a big stink back then. Pull out the console from under the bed, find the wires, find the controllers, locate the cartridges.. All part and parcel of early gaming.

 

Dunno how well that'd go over today. I was just thinking about how I had this ridiculously HUGE box laden with an Apple II, 2 drives, a pile of wires, and interface cards and boxes of diskettes. It would take 2 people to safely haul it to the car when we went to wArEz confurhensiz..

 

I suppose it's (the case's) marketing success would simply depend on if people took their VCS to family and friend's gatherings. Maybe just buy another VCS and transport only your media. In which case (nopunintended) make a high-quality media case. A small sturdy box to hold flash stuff and maybe a controller.

 

Brand it Atari as loudly as possible.

 

I never much cared for dedicated cases (I never took my consoles anywhere, if I went to a friend's house I just played whatever he had there) but now, it would really help with storage.  And if it followed the same design aesthetic, even better, make it look like it came out in the '70s/'80s.

 

People either get the "joy" of having all the components and cables and having to connect everything up, or they don't.  I miss that crap, though my console was usually "permanently" connected, meaning it was next to the TV and probably hooked through the switch box so it was one flip, plug in the power supply, connect the correct controllers and cart, play.  The tactile element is lost on the younger generations (I miss the sound and feel of plugging in a cartridge), they don't care about the art part of it, what the console looked like, the games in boxes or whatever.  Their loss.  I can't stand the look of the 800XL, for example, it's "wrong" compared to the original 800.  But, it's far better looking than other personal computers.  The PC craze ruined that for a while, an army of beige rectangular boxes.  I think SGI was the first modern company to get that back (for a while, anyway), the Indigo 1, Octane and Fuel cases.

 

It's like enjoying driving a stick-shift car (I do) or listening to vinyl.  You have to clean your album before you play it?!@??!  And you set the needle down and there's no skipping tracks or fast-forwarding through the boring parts?!  Ya, sit back and actually listen to it.  I still read books, as in made out of paper, and magazines.  Not in the mood for Kindle.

[+x=usr(1536)]

32 minutes ago, ledzep said:

Because in-house is in-house, meaning Atari employee paid by Atari to develop games (or whatever else) and probably based off of their ideas (actually, they should probably assemble a small team to do just that).

As far as that goes, I agree.

32 minutes ago, ledzep said:

A homebrew programmer is doing things on his own time, not discussing the game with Atari, just presenting a complete game to be wrapped in APX clothing and sold through Atari.

As written, I also agree.  However, where I feel the distinction is blurred is when the game becomes a first-party release.

 

Like I said, we can split hairs on this 10,000 ways from Sunday.  I'll freely admit that.  But this is not a totally dissimilar situation to how book publishers work: a third party (the author) writes a manuscript for the first party (the publisher).  The publisher decides in advance if they want to accept or reject the book proposal that the author (or, more likely, their agent, but that's neither here nor there) has put forward.  If yes, the author typically receives an advance on full payment, completes the manuscript, and hands it off to the publisher for both final compensation and publication.  The title is recognised as being sold by the publisher, not the author independently.  It's effectively a first-party work based on publishing and initial distribution.

 

Now, if the author decides to go with, say, online, mail-order, carrier pigeon, etc. distribution, then sale is more (or completely) controlled by the author.  This is where I see the major distinction between a homebrew and first-party title coming in: how much control the author has over sale and initial distribution of their work.

 

I'm not saying that this situation is a 100% match, but there are a lot of parallels.  It's also not particularly rigid, with plenty of room for exceptions to the rule.

[+Stephen]

13 hours ago, ledzep said:

1) Limited runs of old arcade games.

See - this is great.  Instead, what we get, is some bullshit overpriced set of un-populated bare PCBs.  $250 for what should be a $35 or $40 board.  Par for the course.

https://retrododo.com/atari-collectible-arcade-circuit-boards/

[+x=usr(1536)]

12 minutes ago, Stephen said:

See - this is great.  Instead, what we get, is some bullshit overpriced set of un-populated bare PCBs.  $250 for what should be a $35 or $40 board.  Par for the course.

https://retrododo.com/atari-collectible-arcade-circuit-boards/

Let's not forget that those bullshit overpriced bare PCBs plagiarised the historical text silkscreened onto them from Wikipedia:

 

 

Maybe Atari should've just held out for a better version of ChatGPT before turning it loose on their products.

[Giles N]

14 hours ago, ledzep said:

1) Limited runs of old arcade games.

Thanks for lots of ideas and input.

 

Yes, - here. on this thread we can put in everything from dry-as-dust Atari-market analysises, to pure Atari-WonderWorld Dream-scenarios.

 

Trying to do something in the middle of these 2 things on your idea number 1), I think it’s cool.

I think if Atari had accumulated lots of money (so not every move was a risk), they could have made some deals with specialized firms, and made a run of true full old-school arcades, but I think these would end up being enormously expensive and most likely been sold to Retro-game-halls, even prior to production-runs, and again - if any remained the price-tag would be pretty huge.

Guesstimate speaking right out of my  a…, - uhm -, my head … probably 3000-3500$ for a stand up cabinet for Star Wars, 1000$ for Missile Command.

Yes, I know you know from which outset I speak, but man, think of the costs of getting all those oldfashioned parts being produced again.

You start a new production run of things only bought by very few companies, then it needs assembly.

 

So, wouid you pay 1000$ for a really hardcore-arcade cabinet…?

3000$…for a more exclusive title…?

Edited August 3, 2023 by Giles N