Stop the Express - now available

[8bitwidgets.com]

2 hours ago, aotta said:

seems like a waste of time to me.

I have to say that I agree.  while i love the idea of encryption, but if it's limited in its access, it just becomes a barrier to access...    I'm not pursuing homebrew games to get rich (we all have different motivations / needs, so that's just my perspective), but some minor compensation feels nice.  So to me a $5-10 price point for a rom seems both reasonable for others to afford and being digital keeps costs down.  If someone is going to pirate my game when i'm asking $5-10 for a rom..  they are going to pirate anything..  and i'm willing to take my chances on that..   maybe i'm looking at our community with rose tinted glasses, but that's just how i choose to look at it.  

I'm willing to bet most home brew fans have enough disposable income to ante up and say "thanks for making this game, here let me cover your lunch tomorrow".. heh.   and yea for the CIB people, if I had a game and there was enough demand i'd consider making that to for folks.  I would find that incredibly rewarding to produce, but of course that is much more expensive to make.. 

I just wish it wasn't one or the other in many cases.  

Edited February 21, 2023 by Caleb Garner

[+cmadruga]

My experience with roms does not necessarily match the "30 guys" hypothesis.

 

What I found over time is that demand is highly variable depending on the title. Much more variable than CIB sales seem to be, at least based on my own observations. 

I believe that happens in part because there is a critical mass of collectors around the globe that will reliably keep up with any and all CIB releases - as long as availability is not an issue.

 

When it comes to roms there is also a critical mass, but it seems to consist of a smaller group of individuals motivated by the demonstration of support to developers.

Collecting is of course not a motivation, as digital goods are not perceived to be something collectible currently.

Demand also depends on how attractive is each title.

 

What makes a title "attractive" seems to be complicated:

- technical sophistication and eye candy will certainly turn heads...

- ... but sometimes simpler games do better due to the nostalgia factor.

- Ports of good games from lesser known platforms seem to be at a disadvantage.

 

Then there are other factors like piracy, etc, but I will not get into those.

[aotta]

i think "nostalgia factor" is one of the most important... or we would all be here talking about ps5 and xbox x!

[+cmadruga]

For sure, but nostalgia has 2 variants it seems:

 

#1: people that want to experience games they grew up with, in a platform they grew up with.

Those will balk at games that do not look or feel like "real" Intellivision games. Looking like a NES game is actually perceived negatively.

Will make concessions for ports from other platforms, as long as those come from late 70s / early 80s (Western-centric).

 

#2: people willing to experience new things in a platform they grew up with.

Those will value pushing the platform to its limits and games that look like they should not be possible on the Intellivision.

 

There is probably a Venn diagram on the above with some people fitting both groups simultaneously, but I suspect the #1 group is way larger.

[8bitwidgets.com]

40 minutes ago, cmadruga said:

keep up with any and all CIB releases - as long as availability is not an issue.

Right or else you see Christmas Carol in ebay for $300!  Fantastic game, top notch, but it shouldn't be $300 or nothing..   thankfully the rom is available for free.. 

 

2 hours ago, cmadruga said:

Demand also depends on how attractive is each title.

yea the idea that every game sells equally well.  There are some amazing roms I've bought like Ms. Night Stalker and Tron Rebooted for example..  I hope everyone buys these as they are great successors to a couple of great originals.  

 

2 hours ago, cmadruga said:

Ports of good games from lesser known platforms seem to be at an disadvantage.

which games fall under this category?   Just lack of recognition / nostalgia? 

 

1 hour ago, cmadruga said:

but I suspect the #1 group is way larger.

yea that's probably right..  i'm more of a #2 guy..  but i appreciate ports too.  

[SiLic0ne t0aD]

Stop the Express would probably be a good example.. It's a port and was available on many other vintage computers back in the day, ie. ZX Spectrum, MSX, C64, etc.

 

I never heard of it until this recent Inty port. I'm sure there's better examples though.

Edited February 21, 2023 by SiLic0ne t0aD

[8bitwidgets.com]

On 2/21/2023 at 12:53 PM, SiLic0ne t0aD said:

Stop the Express would probably be a good example..

yea great point.. i'd never heard of this game till now.  Does seem like a great game.  I'll likely just take a chance and hope it works on backbit.. if it doesn't, hopefully we can figure out how to get it to work.  

[SiLic0ne t0aD]

6 hours ago, Caleb Garner said:

yea great point.. i'd never heard of this game till now.  Does seem like a great game.  I'll likely just take a chance and hope it works on backbit.. if it doesn't, hopefully we can figure out how to get it to work.  

It should work fine, though I can't verify that 100% since I don't have a BackBit yet. It's not an encrypted game though and isn't JLP enhanced, as far as I know, so you should be in good shape. 👍

[Kamikazi26]

It has standard memory mapping. There should be no issues with it working on the backbit. 

[+DZ-Jay]

On 2/21/2023 at 12:13 PM, Caleb Garner said:

Right or else you see Christmas Carol in ebay for $300!  Fantastic game, top notch, but it shouldn't be $300 or nothing..   thankfully the rom is available for free.. 

News Flash!  Inflation has hit speculators as well. 😱

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/374528984373

[mthompson]

@DZ-Jay How do you feel about people selling things you created and making a huge profit when they haven't even opened the box and enjoyed the game? I've often wondered about that. I think it would bum me out.

[+DZ-Jay]

1 minute ago, mthompson said:

@DZ-Jay How do you feel about people selling things you created and making a huge profit when they haven't even opened the box and enjoyed the game? I've often wondered about that. I think it would bum me out.

It is rather disappointing if people just buy the game and do not play it, and doubly so if they just sell it for profit without even opening it.  Games — toys — should be played with.

 

Personally, I think predatory, speculative purchasing (buying with the intent to sell later at a profit, under the expectation that production quantities are limited and price can be increased when availability dwindles, and that collectors will pay it out of compulsion) is a nasty business, and I do not hold much respect for those who practice it — especially when talking about what are, essentially, the toys of our childhood.

 

All that said, I don’t think about it too much, really.  When someone sends me a link (like the above), I just roll my eyes and brush it off.  People are people, and will do what they will. *shrug*

 

   dZ.

[+5-11under]

I'd be more upset if they were in the dollar bin or dumpster.

Anyway, no use getting upset about what others are doing with something that's not yours anymore.

[+DZ-Jay]

19 minutes ago, 5-11under said:

I'd be more upset if they were in the dollar bin or dumpster.
 

 

That’s different.  If people did not value my game I would be upset at myself for making a crap game.

 

As I mentioned, I think it is generally disappointing when people do not even try to play a game — any game — and pass it on.

 

19 minutes ago, 5-11under said:

Anyway, no use getting upset about what others are doing with something that's not yours anymore.

I’m not upset.  I think when people send me such links they are expecting a reaction from me, but I just shrug and brush it off.  Meh.

 

What people do with their property is their business.  I still do not hold much respect for those who try to exploit others for profit.  Take that as you will.

 

   dZ.

[+DZ-Jay]

Anyway, I was being cheeky:  I thought it was funny that Caleb mentioned $300 on eBa (and it was before), but the price today seems to be $400.  Go figure!

Edited February 24, 2023 by DZ-Jay

[carlsson]

Also if DZ-Jay wanted to kill off this business, he would invest some money in a rerun so everyone could have a copy of the game. He only would have to determine if the reprint should differ in some way from the first one, or to screw all collectors by making it as identical as possible.

 

Hopefully this is what will happen with the inflated LTO Flash! business once Joe & c:o finally gets the next batch onto the market. The eBay scalpers will find their unused copies drop in value by 50% over night.

[8bitwidgets.com]

1 hour ago, carlsson said:

unused copies drop in value by 50% over night.

50%? like drop to like 20% of some of the sold prices..   I feel bad and yet i don't for those who both try to gouge and those who agree to pay gouged prices..

The SGM for the Colecovision is another one of those..  they inflate and yet these do still get produced in fairly steady batches 1-2 a year from what I can tell..  but I held out and got it for the retail..

 

Sadly seeing the madness of LTO pricing when out of production, I hope people are not allowed to buy more than one per customer to keep people from basically buying up all the properly priced LTOs and turn around and start scalping them..   I know gouging a rare and useful thing is difficult to control..   it's just unfortunate to see.  

[+DZ-Jay]

13 hours ago, carlsson said:

Also if DZ-Jay wanted to kill off this business, he would invest some money in a rerun so everyone could have a copy of the game. He only would have to determine if the reprint should differ in some way from the first one, or to screw all collectors by making it as identical as possible.

 

Back in 2012, having learned from previous experiences in the Intellivision collector's market, LTO's and mine original goal was always to prevent an exploitative second-hand speculator market by keeping the game in circulation permanently -- or close to permanently.  Unfortunately, for various reasons which I will not discuss, that did not happen.

 

Then, my plan was to re-print the assets myself and bring the game back into circulation to quash the burgeoning speculator market.  However, try as I might, I couldn't find a way in which to make the production identical:  Because I do not have access to the original material producers, there will always be, however subtle, a difference in cardboard stock, color tone, trim size, etc.

 

And even in the unlikely chance that I managed to produce an identical product, I would not be able at liberty to use the LTO name or logo, nor its distinctive hologram serial-number sticker.

 

All this means that, however I were to re-publish the game, it would always be a variant, and thus I would have only guaranteed the permanence of the exploitative second-hand speculator market which I was trying to destroy.

 

So, I gave up:  Christmas Carol vs. The Ghost of Christmas Presents has run its course.  It's done and finished.  I've come to terms with it, others should too.  A few hundred units were printed and sold out, I am happy to say that most of them were opened and played with (apparently repeatedly over the years, from what I hear); only a few remain sealed on shelves, and even less are in actual market circulation.

 

I can live with that.

 

Now I have a new plan:  Since there still seems to be demand for the game, and a new run is definitely destined to be a variant, I could instead publish a brand new version of the game -- a "Super-Pro" edition, if you will -- complete with new levels, new mechanics, new animations, and other new features.  It would still be good ol' Christmas Carol, but with a twist and a few surprises (not to mention plenty of bug fixes and internal improvements).  I call this The Ultimate Edition, and has been in development, on and off, for the past few years.

 

This would be the definitive edition of the game -- and just to make the circle complete, it would include the original game ROM in all its nostalgic glory, as a playable option for those who would like to experience the game just as it was back in 2012.  This Ultimate Edition may even include a copy of the Christmas Carol children's book, just to tie a bow around the whole production and make it perfectly complete.

 

Anyway, that's the plan.  I'm slow.  I procrastinate.  I'm old.  I'm lazy.  So, don't expect a definitive release date.  The goal was to release in 2022 for the 10th Anniversary of the game, but that didn't happen.  The later plan was Christmas 2023, but ... that's starting to look unlikely.

 

I can tell you that it is coming, for sure, I promise.  I just do not know when.

 

Anyway, I did not mean to hijack this thread, so my apologies to @cmadruga (sorry, mate!).  If anybody wants to discuss my comments, I suggest either send me a PM or start a separate thread.  I will not say more out of topic in this one.  I suggest you all do the same.

 

      -dZ.

 

[+DZ-Jay]

Back on topic ...

 

On 2/21/2023 at 10:16 AM, cmadruga said:

For sure, but nostalgia has 2 variants it seems:

 

#1: people that want to experience games they grew up with, in a platform they grew up with.

Those will balk at games that do not look or feel like "real" Intellivision games. Looking like a NES game is actually perceived negatively.

Will make concessions for ports from other platforms, as long as those come from late 70s / early 80s (Western-centric).

 

#2: people willing to experience new things in a platform they grew up with.

Those will value pushing the platform to its limits and games that look like they should not be possible on the Intellivision.

 

There is probably a Venn diagram on the above with some people fitting both groups simultaneously, but I suspect the #1 group is way larger.

 

I agree with @cmadruga.  I personally tend to gravitate towards the games I played as a child on the platforms I played as a child.

 

This is why I still enjoy playing, say, Tennis, Astrosmash, or Star Strike (some of my very first Intellivision games from way back then); but I cannot bring myself to even try Tutankham, Lock N' Chase, or Snafu (games I never owned).

 

There are some exceptions, of course.  After seeing Night Stalker on the early catalogues, I wanted it; but after playing it once (and dying spectacularly) on a demo console in Sears or K-Mart, I thought it was slow and crap.  So, I never asked for it, and never owned it.

 

I posted that anecdote several years ago in some other thread and was bombarded by a lot of responses asking me to really try it again with an open mind, and explaining to me why everyone thought it was such a great game and perhaps I would too, if I gave it a chance.  I did, and now it is one of my very favorite games on the console.

 

There are also some Intellivision games which I never owned as a kid and only tried as an adult, such as Masters Of The Universe and Worm Whomper, both of which blew me away by their quality of game-play and fluidity of motion.  Those game stand on their own merit.

 

And yet, as you see, those are still Intellivision games -- the platform I owned in my childhood.  The only other platform I owned was the Commodore 64, and it wasn't until I was an adult in the heyday of the PS2 that I owned another gaming console.  Thus, I have no love or attachment for Atari VCS, ColecoVision, NES or SNES games -- at all.

 

So, back to Carlos' two variants of nostalgia, old Commodore 64 games brought into the Intellivision Ghostbusters, Beach Head, and -- I hope some day -- Impossible Mission (@cmadruga, I'm looking at you, mate) get my attention; and brand new original games for the Intellivision such as The Pandora Incident or Upmonsters are attractive to me.  (Along with some ports of my favorite arcades from my childhood as well.)

 

However, when a game is ported from a platform to which I have no connection, I can only judge it by its own merits on the Intellivision, as is, devoid of any nostalgic impulses; and compare it to other games within the Intellivision canon itself with which I am familiar.  Unfortunately what this means is that I may end up judging it negatively because it doesn't fit within my personal view of what an "Intellivision game" should be.

 

That's an honest opinion, for better or worse.  It's not personal, even if it may seem a little judgemental.  It seems others have a similar view, only with different platform preferences -- then again, diversity is the spice of life, no?

 

     -dZ.

 

 

Edited February 25, 2023 by DZ-Jay

[mr_me]

16 hours ago, carlsson said:

Also if DZ-Jay wanted to kill off this business, he would invest some money in a rerun so everyone could have a copy of the game. He only would have to determine if the reprint should differ in some way from the first one, or to screw all collectors by making it as identical as possible.

 

Hopefully this is what will happen with the inflated LTO Flash! business once Joe & c:o finally gets the next batch onto the market. The eBay scalpers will find their unused copies drop in value by 50% over night.

The problem with another run was the fixed costs on producing the package, boxes, overlays, etc..  You'd have to make and sell a certain number of copies to break even.

 

The cartridges can be made and sold on demand, so a cartridge only option can always be available.  There are people that just want to have a cartridge so whether it's a new boxed edition or a loose cartridge, it should reduce the demand on the first run editions.  And for those that want to pay extra for the first run, that's their problem.

 

Edited February 25, 2023 by mr_me

[First Spear]

On 2/21/2023 at 9:58 AM, cmadruga said:

My experience with roms does not necessarily match the "30 guys" hypothesis.

 

What I found over time is that demand is highly variable depending on the title. [snip]

I agree with that. Marketing that drives demand for most games is minimal, so if the title isn't attention-grabbing on its own, the number of sales is not that high.

[Games For Your Intellivision]

On 2/25/2023 at 10:04 AM, DZ-Jay said:

 

Back in 2012, having learned from previous experiences in the Intellivision collector's market, LTO's and mine original goal was always to prevent an exploitative second-hand speculator market by keeping the game in circulation permanently -- or close to permanently.  Unfortunately, for various reasons which I will not discuss, that did not happen.

 

Then, my plan was to re-print the assets myself and bring the game back into circulation to quash the burgeoning speculator market.  However, try as I might, I couldn't find a way in which to make the production identical:  Because I do not have access to the original material producers, there will always be, however subtle, a difference in cardboard stock, color tone, trim size, etc.

 

And even in the unlikely chance that I managed to produce an identical product, I would not be able at liberty to use the LTO name or logo, nor its distinctive hologram serial-number sticker.

 

All this means that, however I were to re-publish the game, it would always be a variant, and thus I would have only guaranteed the permanence of the exploitative second-hand speculator market which I was trying to destroy.

 

So, I gave up:  Christmas Carol vs. The Ghost of Christmas Presents has run its course.  It's done and finished.  I've come to terms with it, others should too.  A few hundred units were printed and sold out, I am happy to say that most of them were opened and played with (apparently repeatedly over the years, from what I hear); only a few remain sealed on shelves, and even less are in actual market circulation.

 

I can live with that.

 

Now I have a new plan:  Since there still seems to be demand for the game, and a new run is definitely destined to be a variant, I could instead publish a brand new version of the game -- a "Super-Pro" edition, if you will -- complete with new levels, new mechanics, new animations, and other new features.  It would still be good ol' Christmas Carol, but with a twist and a few surprises (not to mention plenty of bug fixes and internal improvements).  I call this The Ultimate Edition, and has been in development, on and off, for the past few years.

 

This would be the definitive edition of the game -- and just to make the circle complete, it would include the original game ROM in all its nostalgic glory, as a playable option for those who would like to experience the game just as it was back in 2012.  This Ultimate Edition may even include a copy of the Christmas Carol children's book, just to tie a bow around the whole production and make it perfectly complete.

 

Anyway, that's the plan.  I'm slow.  I procrastinate.  I'm old.  I'm lazy.  So, don't expect a definitive release date.  The goal was to release in 2022 for the 10th Anniversary of the game, but that didn't happen.  The later plan was Christmas 2023, but ... that's starting to look unlikely.

 

I can tell you that it is coming, for sure, I promise.  I just do not know when.

 

Anyway, I did not mean to hijack this thread, so my apologies to @cmadruga (sorry, mate!).  If anybody wants to discuss my comments, I suggest either send me a PM or start a separate thread.  I will not say more out of topic in this one.  I suggest you all do the same.

 

      -dZ.

 

I'm a bit confused by this post.

 

It's my understanding that you were the one who cut off the sales at 300.

 

I've encouraged you to release more a few times in the past decade, but you've always cited 'speculators' as the reason for not releasing more. Now, here we are about a decade later and people are lamenting that they can't get a copy of the game at a reasonable price. Exactly opposite to what you wanted. 

 

There are actually zero barriers to making more exact copies.  

 

Joe has more hologram stickers than 300. He has many more exact overlays. He has enough boxes for a couple of hundred. He has remaining cartridge stickers. You printed the manuals. I'm sure you could do them at the same printer, and in the same way. 

 

Hell, I didn't even toss all of the Christmas Carol boxes into the garbage (just a lot).

 

Joe won't block you making more exact copies. Just buy the materials that belong to him and you could make more. 

 

This picture was just taken today in Ontario, Canada. 

 

If you want to kill off speculation, let's do it. I'll arrange to have these boxes shipped. 

 

Edited February 26, 2023 by Games For Your Intellivision

[+DZ-Jay]

58 minutes ago, Games For Your Intellivision said:

I'm a bit confused by this post.

I am sorry for that, but I understand that reading can be hard.  Here let me help you:

 

On 2/25/2023 at 10:04 AM, DZ-Jay said:

Unfortunately, for various reasons which I will not discuss, that did not happen.

 

And here is some more.

 

On 2/25/2023 at 10:04 AM, DZ-Jay said:

If anybody wants to discuss my comments, I suggest either send me a PM or start a separate thread.  I will not say more out of topic in this one.  I suggest you all do the same.

 

      -dZ.

 

 

[Kamikazi26]

Stop the Express! 
 

Rom is for sale at Intellivision Collector website. 
 

direct link:

https://www.intellivisioncollector.com/roms/stop-the-express-rom.html

 

Now back to your regular scheduled program….

 

 

[+DZ-Jay]

15 minutes ago, Kamikazi26 said:

Stop the Express! 
 

Rom is for sale at Intellivision Collector website. 
 

direct link:

https://www.intellivisioncollector.com/roms/stop-the-express-rom.html

 

Now back to your regular scheduled program….

 

 

 

Are there any reviews of the game?  I'm on the fence about this one ... It looks interesting, but I have never knew about the original.

 

Also, the video shows some flickering, and I wanted to know from those who've actually played it if it's like that on the console or emulator, or just an artefact of the video compressor dropping frames.  Sometimes those NetBookTube+ videos do not give the game its full justice.

 

     -dZ.

Edited February 26, 2023 by DZ-Jay