NeoColeco Adapter

[Cartermw]

I am very excited to say that after almost 2 years of tinkering, my NeoColeco Adapter is nearing ready for primetime.  The adapter will use the BlueRetro interphase, and allow Colecovision players the ability to use modern controllers from Playstation, Xbox, and Nintendo.  The prototype board have been printed and are on their way.  I am hoping to start testing next week and if everything goes well start building them for sale next month.  The interphase will have four custom mappable number buttons on top of the normal fire and arm.   

[+evg2000]

looks cool

curious, any lag issues?

And how are you isolating power from the Arduino (I think that's an Arduino) and the CV?  When I built my paddle controller I used optocouplers to separate CV power from the Arduino, to make sure it didn't fry the CV controller ICs. Only passive device I see is the resistor array.

[Cartermw]

It is base on the ESP32 dev board, I am using 74hc4066 switches pushed by the ESP to control the coleco controls.  It will unfortunately need an external power supply since Coleco ports don't push usable power.

[Cartermw]

As for lag, my old design wasn't bad, but it was based on a neo-geo Bluetooth adapter.  I am hoping the new design will be comparable.  

[+evg2000]

18 minutes ago, Cartermw said:

It is base on the ESP32 dev board, I am using 74hc4066 switches pushed by the ESP to control the coleco controls.  It will unfortunately need an external power supply since Coleco ports don't push usable power.

Interesting, I will have to look into those if I ever decide to redo my paddle controller.  thanks for sharing

this is the version of the paddle controller I open sourced
https://github.com/evg2000/ATTiny84_Version3.1

I hope the prototype works well, and you get a lot of sales!

[+mytek]

Looks like a nice device 👍

 

I do something similar in my SparkFun Keypad converter, basing it on the CD4066 chip which is the original CMOS variant that came before the 74HC4066 version. The Colecovision application doesn't require the high speed part to work properly, although it probably doesn't hurt to use it. They both have the same pin-out, however the CD4066 can tolerate a higher VCC, which doesn't matter in this particular application. But it does look like the HC version is 24 cents cheaper at Jameco (and probably the same elsewhere), so a better choice for the wallet

 

Here's my Schematic with the Controller Matrix Table to reference: CV-KEYPAD_V1.3_schema.pdf

(the included matrix table shows all the possible combinations, including the directional and fire buttons - although I was only using the keypad equivalents in my project)

[+evg2000]

1 hour ago, mytek said:

Looks like a nice device 👍

 

I do something similar in my SparkFun Keypad converter, basing it on the CD4066 chip which is the original CMOS variant that came before the 74HC4066 version. The Colecovision application doesn't require the high speed part to work properly, although it probably doesn't hurt to use it. They both have the same pin-out, however the CD4066 can tolerate a higher VCC, which doesn't matter in this particular application. But it does look like the HC version is 24 cents cheaper at Jameco (and probably the same elsewhere), so a better choice for the wallet

 

Here's my Schematic with the Controller Matrix Table to reference: CV-KEYPAD_V1.3_schema.pdf

(the included matrix table shows all the possible combinations, including the directional and fire buttons - although I was only using the keypad equivalents in my project)

Thanks, I like the matrix table.  I have a project I want to do some day and that matrix will help.

[Cartermw]

3 hours ago, mytek said:

Looks like a nice device 👍

 

I do something similar in my SparkFun Keypad converter, basing it on the CD4066 chip which is the original CMOS variant that came before the 74HC4066 version. The Colecovision application doesn't require the high speed part to work properly, although it probably doesn't hurt to use it. They both have the same pin-out, however the CD4066 can tolerate a higher VCC, which doesn't matter in this particular application. But it does look like the HC version is 24 cents cheaper at Jameco (and probably the same elsewhere), so a better choice for the wallet

 

Here's my Schematic with the Controller Matrix Table to reference: CV-KEYPAD_V1.3_schema.pdf

(the included matrix table shows all the possible combinations, including the directional and fire buttons - although I was only using the keypad equivalents in my project)

Thank you.  I was using the cd4066 for my previous controllers and it has worked well.  I ended up moving to the HC variant because I was concerned that the cd4066 wouldn't work with the 3.3v control lines from the ESP, and as you said the speed shouldn't be an issue, at least I hope.  

[+mytek]

5 minutes ago, Cartermw said:

I ended up moving to the HC variant because I was concerned that the cd4066 wouldn't work with the 3.3v control lines from the ESP, and as you said the speed shouldn't be an issue, at least I hope. 

The CD4066 can operate from 3-20V for a supply voltage, so no problem on 3.3V. The extra speed of the HC version would only create an issue if it were in an extremely noisy environment. A ground plane and a 0.1uf decoupling capacitor close to the chip and connected between pin 7 and 14 would insure that there would not be a problem with this.

[Cartermw]

3 minutes ago, mytek said:

The CD4066 can operate from 3-20V for a supply voltage, so no problem on 3.3V. The extra speed of the HC version would only create an issue if it were in an extremely noisy environment. A ground plane and a 0.1uf decoupling capacitor close to the chip and connected between pin 7 and 14 would insure that there would not be a problem with this.

I still have a bunch of the cd4066s.  I may try one out and see if there is any difference.  If nothing else I fun experiment.  

[Cartermw]

On 2/10/2023 at 4:25 PM, mytek said:

The CD4066 can operate from 3-20V for a supply voltage, so no problem on 3.3V. The extra speed of the HC version would only create an issue if it were in an extremely noisy environment. A ground plane and a 0.1uf decoupling capacitor close to the chip and connected between pin 7 and 14 would insure that there would not be a problem with this.

I still have a bunch of the cd4066s.  I may try one out and see if there is any

[Cartermw]

Attempt #1 was a bust, but I am pretty sure I know where the issue lies.  Time to do some testing and try again.  

[+mytek]

3 hours ago, Cartermw said:

Attempt #1 was a bust, but I am pretty sure I know where the issue lies.  Time to do some testing and try again.  

If attempt #1 is with the CD4066 instead of the 74HCT4066, it shouldn't have failed, because I use the CD4066 in two different but somewhat related boards to 'key' in specific commands via the joystick port and both boards work just fine. However do keep in mind that directional commands (e.g., Left, Right,..) require the use of a different common vs. numbers and symbols. For instance D-sub pin 5 is the common to use for  sending numbers and symbols, whereas D-sub pin 8 is the common required for directional commands. The Left and Right trigger buttons are split between the 2 commons, with one requiring pin 5 and the other requiring pin 8, with both originating at pin 6.

 

EDIT: although I am running at 5V power for the CD4066, whereas you are using 3.3V instead. I must concede I've never attempted using such a low voltage, although everything that I've read says that it should work as low as 3V. Maybe in reality this isn't true.

[Cartermw]

The failure was related to logic not component.  I was hoping I could direct drive the 4066 chips, but unfortunately the only protocol that is readily available runs high pulling low logic, so I will have to put 74xx04s in line to invert the logic.  No big deal, just more chips.  

Edited February 13, 2023 by Cartermw

[Cartermw]

I have an older neo-geo adapter that works on this logic so it is not a big deal.  I am rigging one of my old adapters to the ESP to start testing.  In hind site I probably should have started here.  

Edited February 13, 2023 by Cartermw

[+mytek]

10 hours ago, Cartermw said:

The failure was related to logic not component.  I was hoping I could direct drive the 4066 chips, but unfortunately the only protocol that is readily available runs high pulling low logic, so I will have to put 74xx04s in line to invert the logic.  No big deal, just more chips.  

I had a few situations like that on a USB Mouse to Quadrature board I was designing, but it was only a couple of signals that were inverted, so I just used some extra 4066 switches to invert it for me. Basically this works by having one side of a given switch connected to GND, and a pull-up resistor on the other side. So in essence anytime the switch control is high, the output at the pull-up side will get pulled down to GND making for an inverter.

 

 

A MOSFET also makes for a good inverter, and takes up very little space.

 

Note: usually direct driving the MOSFET gate input works fine, but to insure that it has no chance of oscillating it's good insurance to have a resistor in series with whatever logic is driving it (anything from 100 ohms to 1K).

[Cartermw]

Very creative, I really like the MOSFET design.  I also thought about building one with a diode, I already have 22 on the board, but with potentially 11 signal lines at this moment I am sticking with the xx04 chip.

 

Edited February 14, 2023 by Cartermw

[+mytek]

9 hours ago, Cartermw said:

Very creative, I really like the MOSFET design.  I also thought about building one with a diode, I already have 22 on the board, but with potentially 11 signal lines at this moment I am sticking with the xx04 chip.

Yep some of these alternative methods are good to know when you only need one or two inverters. However having the need to invert 11 signals would indeed be better with a couple of hex inverter ICs such as xx04.

[Cartermw]

It is not pretty, but it works.  Time to start working on the final PCB.  

[Cartermw]

Attempt #2 to s on its way.  🤓

[Cartermw]

I have a couple of minor changes to make, the biggest one being the hole spacing for the ESP, but the unit is tested and working.  I am starting work on the case and instructions now, while I wait for what I hope is the final PCB to arrive.  

[Cartermw]

I feel the manual is looking good.  It still needs some fine tuning, but I need to get working on the case.  

NeoColeco Manual.pdf

[Cartermw]

There are still a couple of details I need to iron out, but I am feeling good.  🤓

[+Gemintronic]

I don't usually follow topics but I'm especially keen on this one.  My original Coleco joysticks are not aging well.  Nor are my hands as they seem to cramp up with anything but an Xbox One controller.

[Cartermw]

1 hour ago, Gemintronic said:

I don't usually follow topics but I'm especially keen on this one.  My original Coleco joysticks are not aging well.  Nor are my hands as they seem to cramp up with anything but an Xbox One controller.

I understand too well, the whole reason I started working on this was due to the arthritis in my hands.  With luck the first units should be on Etsy the first week of April, if not before.  I will post here with a link before adding them.