Kirk_Johnston Posted February 19, 2023 Share Posted February 19, 2023 (edited) When I first came in here, one of the very first things I observed and commented on was how the SNES forum had some of the lowest thread/discussion numbers across this entire forum, which I just found weird considering the SNES was pretty much the second most popular console out of every single one in this forum in terms of original sales, and by a large margin (only the NES sold more than it), and is actually the most popular of all of them across the Internet today if sales of the recent mini systems are any indication (5.28 million SNES Minis, 2.3 million NES Minis, around 300,000 Genesis Minis, around 30,000 Genesis Mini 2s, etc). So, one of my personal goals was just to try and help increase the SNES conversation a little in whatever small ways I could. Well, it was sitting at around 1400 posts when I first came in about 6 months ago or whatever, as I recall--How long has this forum and the SNES specific one actually been here?--and now it's over 2K. I think that's a nice increase there. Here's to ongoing SNES discussion, and, ideally, eventually more new SNES games and demos and the like to come in the near future too. I mean, actual real SNES games from the SNES development community, which we can all play and enjoy. Because, speaking personally, that's the real goal here when all is said and done. On that topic, I'll just post this again as a good step in the right direction imo: https://inceptionalnews.wordpress.com/2023/01/23/modern-snes-games-and-demos/ Let's see what the future holds. . . . Edited February 19, 2023 by Kirk_Johnston 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirk_Johnston Posted February 20, 2023 Author Share Posted February 20, 2023 (edited) Hmmm, it's interesting to see the SNES has had a dedicated forum section on here and been actively discussed since as far back 2005, at least based on the Super Nintendo Entertainment System (SNES) / Super Famicom thread/comment history. So, from mid 2005 to mid 2022, it received around 1400 comments (if memory serves me correctly), and from around mid 2022 until now, it's received around 600 new comments. That's a massive relative jump in such a small time--unless I'm reading the details incorrectly. I'm personally very happy to see SNES receiving a lot more discussion, and certainly far more in line with where its relative popularity is at. Very cool. Edited February 20, 2023 by Kirk_Johnston Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punisher5.0 Posted February 20, 2023 Share Posted February 20, 2023 The SNES forum has been here for only a few years. When a new forum gets made then older threads related to the subject get moved to that forum. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirk_Johnston Posted February 20, 2023 Author Share Posted February 20, 2023 (edited) 15 minutes ago, Punisher5.0 said: The SNES forum has been here for only a few years. When a new forum gets made then older threads related to the subject get moved to that forum. That makes a lot more sense. It did seem like a very small number for roughly 17 years worth of SNES contributions up to that point. Edited February 20, 2023 by Kirk_Johnston Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanooki Posted February 20, 2023 Share Posted February 20, 2023 Well considering there hasn't been a pro-Nintendo strength at this site until recent years it could very well have lasted that long. I mean there was't even have a dedicated NES area until more recent times as it just was a high score club that was made a sub forum. The site is just branching out as stand alone forums are stupidly getting more scarce. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Gemintronic Posted February 20, 2023 Share Posted February 20, 2023 A big factor is Atari gaming is a whole different paradigm. I tend to think in terms of pre NES and post NES gaming. Pre NES: * Focus on game replay-ability over content * Predominantly Western influence * Relies on imagination rather than higher resolution assets * Development by a single developer or very small team You can't get that flavor as much post NES. If your first gaming experience was pre NES it's what you crave. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirk_Johnston Posted February 20, 2023 Author Share Posted February 20, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, Tanooki said: Well considering there hasn't been a pro-Nintendo strength at this site until recent years it could very well have lasted that long. I mean there was't even have a dedicated NES area until more recent times as it just was a high score club that was made a sub forum. The site is just branching out as stand alone forums are stupidly getting more scarce. Which is a real shame imo. I'd definitely love for there to be a great standalone SNES forum that covers not only hardcore development on the platform but just the whole gamut of fan art, game art, new games, programming, music, general discussions around the console, high score challenges, speedruns, etc--and it's definitely not SNESdev. I think about doing something like this myself from time to time, but I just find all the systems made for creating and running this kind of stuff far to convoluted and confusing. Every time I look into it I'm immediately put off. It's just like learning to actually program for SNES myself: I really wanna do that, but, by God is that a landmine of a mess that's just not meant for people like me. Until someone finds a way to make that a whole lot simpler to even just get started, it's beyond my understanding and capabilities right now. Edited February 20, 2023 by Kirk_Johnston 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirk_Johnston Posted February 20, 2023 Author Share Posted February 20, 2023 (edited) 28 minutes ago, Gemintronic said: A big factor is Atari gaming is a whole different paradigm. I tend to think in terms of pre NES and post NES gaming. Pre NES: * Focus on game replay-ability over content * Predominantly Western influence * Relies on imagination rather than higher resolution assets * Development by a single developer or very small team You can't get that flavor as much post NES. If your first gaming experience was pre NES it's what you crave. Yeah, even though there a clear generations for the most part, I often think of it being everything pre NES, the from NES up to and including the 16-bit era, and then the 3D era. That kinda makes sense to me in terms of consoles at least. Edited February 20, 2023 by Kirk_Johnston Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+jeremiahjt Posted February 20, 2023 Share Posted February 20, 2023 21 hours ago, Kirk_Johnston said: When I first came in here, one of the very first things I observed and commented on was how the SNES forum had some of the lowest thread/discussion numbers across this entire forum, which I just found weird considering the SNES was pretty much the second most popular console out of every single one in this forum in terms of original sales, and by a large margin (only the NES sold more than it), and is actually the most popular of all of them across the Internet today if sales of the recent mini systems are any indication (5.28 million SNES Minis, 2.3 million NES Minis, around 300,000 Genesis Minis, around 30,000 Genesis Mini 2s, etc). So, one of my personal goals was just to try and help increase the SNES conversation a little in whatever small ways I could. Well, it was sitting at around 1400 posts when I first came in about 6 months ago or whatever, as I recall--How long has this forum and the SNES specific one actually been here?--and now it's over 2K. I think that's a nice increase there. Here's to ongoing SNES discussion, and, ideally, eventually more new SNES games and demos and the like to come in the near future too. I mean, actual real SNES games from the SNES development community, which we can all play and enjoy. Because, speaking personally, that's the real goal here when all is said and done. On that topic, I'll just post this again as a good step in the right direction imo: https://inceptionalnews.wordpress.com/2023/01/23/modern-snes-games-and-demos/ Let's see what the future holds. . . . I mean it makes sense why there are not more topics, the Super NES was the third best console that generation behind the Genesis and the TurboGrafx-16. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirk_Johnston Posted February 20, 2023 Author Share Posted February 20, 2023 (edited) 23 minutes ago, jeremiahjt said: I mean it makes sense why there are not more topics, the Super NES was the third best console that generation behind the Genesis and the TurboGrafx-16. First best based on relative sales, both then and now, and the people who owned it who'd say differently than you just said, to the tune of many millions more. And that applies to the critical acclaim and commercial success of the games, the total size of the games libraries, influence across the industry, plus any ongoing professional and general gamer praise/love of and for those games to this very day too, including where/if they appear on basically every single current Top 100 Games of All Time list. And, if you mean by specs, then that's a whole other debate, as there's many specs indeed where the SNES was objectively first, even if the other systems also have some leading specs of their own: https://inceptionalnews.wordpress.com/2022/11/04/nintendoes/ Edited February 20, 2023 by Kirk_Johnston Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+jeremiahjt Posted February 20, 2023 Share Posted February 20, 2023 2 minutes ago, Kirk_Johnston said: First best based on relative sales, both then and now, and the people who owned it who'd say differently than you just said, to the tunes of many millions more. And, if you mean by specs, then that's a whole other debate, as there's many specs indeed where the SNES was objectively first, even if the other systems also have some leading specs of their own: https://inceptionalnews.wordpress.com/2022/11/04/nintendoes/ No I just mean games. The Genesis and TurboGrafx-16 have better games. I could not care less about specs and sales, only fanboys worry about that stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirk_Johnston Posted February 20, 2023 Author Share Posted February 20, 2023 (edited) 11 minutes ago, jeremiahjt said: No I just mean games. The Genesis and TurboGrafx-16 have better games. I could not care less about specs and sales, only fanboys worry about that stuff. And that applies to the critical acclaim and commercial success of the games, the total size of the games libraries, influence across the industry, plus any ongoing professional and general gamer praise/love of and for those games to this very day too, including where/if they appear on basically every single current Top 100 Games of All Time list. Unless there's some other measurable and demonstrable metrics you know of that I'm missing here? Or is this just a case of "you think" and basically nothing more? If so, you're free to think whatever you like on a personal level. Edited February 20, 2023 by Kirk_Johnston Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+jeremiahjt Posted February 20, 2023 Share Posted February 20, 2023 Stop caring what critics think, most critics are idiots. Being a "critic" does not make a person more capable of judging stuff. Same thing for "professional" gamers. Why would any person care what a "professional" gamer thinks about, well anything really. Play the games. In this particular case the Genesis and TurboGrafx-16 had better games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirk_Johnston Posted February 20, 2023 Author Share Posted February 20, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, jeremiahjt said: Stop caring what critics think, most critics are idiots. Being a "critic" does not make a person more capable of judging stuff. Same thing for "professional" gamers. Why would any person care what a "professional" gamer thinks about, well anything really. Play the games. In this particular case the Genesis and TurboGrafx-16 had better games. I don't really, but when I'm talking to someone who thinks their personal opinion overrides every other metric, such that they can seriously make a personal claim as if it's a universal and objective one, we're dealing with something where there's little choice but to go there. But, let me get on your level for now and say the SNES library blows away those other two consoles' libraries, especially once we get into the top 25 games or so. And, if you want to debate it, do so with the 49.1 million SNES owners who picked that console over the other two because of those games--because you'll never in a bazillion years be able to even remotely sway me on it. Also, maybe it would be best to do so in a non-SNES-centric forum where all the Genesis and PC Engine fans like to hang out and proclaim their systems the best for all the reasons you clearly also believe, rather than here in the SNES forum trying to troll me on it. Edited February 20, 2023 by Kirk_Johnston Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+jeremiahjt Posted February 20, 2023 Share Posted February 20, 2023 2 minutes ago, Kirk_Johnston said: I don't really, but when I'm talking to someone who thinks their personal opinion overrides every other metric, such that they can make a personal claim as if it's a universal and objective one, we're dealing with something where there's little choice but to go there. So, let me get on your level, the SNES library blows away those other two consoles'. And, if you want to debate it, do so with the 49.1 million SNES owners who picked that console over the other two because of those games. Who cares about 49.1 million? There are billions of people in the world, 49.1 million people not knowing what system has the best games is nothing. Play the games for the other systems and you will see what I mean. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirk_Johnston Posted February 20, 2023 Author Share Posted February 20, 2023 (edited) 14 minutes ago, jeremiahjt said: Who cares about 49.1 million? There are billions of people in the world, 49.1 million people not knowing what system has the best games is nothing. Play the games for the other systems and you will see what I mean. I have, and I don't. Maybe you should do the same, and then still go and debate with all the other like-minded Genesis and PC Engine fans in the Genesis and PC Engine forums why you love those system's games more. I have no doubt whatsoever you will all be on the same page. You see, I already know the SNES has the best games library from this gamer's point of view (and a lot of other more objective metrics too), this is why I'm in the SNES forum showing some love for the SNES, not the Genesis and/or PC Engine forum proclaiming they are the best thing since sliced bread. It's possible you wandered into the wrong forum and thought this was one of those other ones, or you have certain ulterior motives here--oh so brilliantly hidden and not patent trolling at all. But, watch, in a SNES-dedicated forum, how someone now jumps to your rescue, like it's not completely obvious what you're doing and I'm somehow being really unfair and mean to you. . . . Edited February 20, 2023 by Kirk_Johnston Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+GoldLeader Posted February 20, 2023 Share Posted February 20, 2023 Ummmm Fellas, There's no point in reigniting a playground argument of which is better (in your opinion)... Though part of me smiles on the inside each time it inevitably happens,...Nostalgia may be the reason. I don't know. I love them all. (just my 2 cents) 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirk_Johnston Posted February 20, 2023 Author Share Posted February 20, 2023 (edited) 4 minutes ago, GoldLeader said: Ummmm Fellas, There's no point in reigniting a playground argument of which is better (in your opinion)... Though part of me smiles on the inside each time it inevitably happens,...Nostalgia may be the reason. I don't know. I love them all. (just my 2 cents) I hear ya. But, let's just be honest: I'm simply in a SNES forum showing some love for the SNES, which should be totally and utterly acceptable and par for the course. And that other guy is quite patently trolling and nothing more right now, which really should not be acceptable or tolerated. But, here we are, as is often the case. Edited February 20, 2023 by Kirk_Johnston 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WavyGravy Posted February 20, 2023 Share Posted February 20, 2023 1 minute ago, Kirk_Johnston said: I hear ya. But, let's just be honest: I'm simply in a SNES forum showing some other love for the SNES, which should be totally and utterly acceptable and par for the course. And that other guys is quite patently trolling, which really should not be acceptable or tolerated. But, here we are, as is often the case. It's an incredibly low-effort and obvious troll, and nobody's saying it should be acceptable. What's also not great is that it worked, and that is on you. Don't feed trolls. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayler Posted February 20, 2023 Share Posted February 20, 2023 Yea, he got you, hook, line and sinker. You are too easy to rile up into a vitriolic haze of justice. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirk_Johnston Posted February 20, 2023 Author Share Posted February 20, 2023 (edited) 12 minutes ago, WavyGravy said: It's an incredibly low-effort and obvious troll, and nobody's saying it should be acceptable. What's also not great is that it worked, and that is on you. Don't feed trolls. Sadly, you are correct. But, unlike most people, I'm actually okay with butting heads with trolls. The problem is that most other people have somehow become so fragile that the modders and the like start shutting down any heated debates around such things, as if no one can take a little bit of disagreement and people arguing their case. So, the real problem for me personally isn't even the trolls, it's the mods who won't let me utterly destroy them. This mean I constantly have to walk on eggshells while the trolls can just come in and freely troll away. It make things a lot more difficult than they would be otherwise. We can't even just have a brutal playground style argument anymore, which I'd be more than pleased to have with some of them, if only I were truly free to do so. Note: They might cry at the end of it all though. Playgrounds can be harsh places. It's kinda sad that this is what the current Internet has created. Edited February 20, 2023 by Kirk_Johnston Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirk_Johnston Posted February 20, 2023 Author Share Posted February 20, 2023 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Wayler said: Yea, he got you, hook, line and sinker. You are too easy to rile up into a vitriolic haze of justice. It's beyond easy. LOL And I have no issue with that. I just wish the Internet would let me properly destroy him for his utter blindness of what he walked into. But, teh modern Internet. I guess the trolls know how to play the modern game way better than I do--no pun intended. I'm not so sly or insidious. I'm just what you see is what you get. Edited February 20, 2023 by Kirk_Johnston Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirk_Johnston Posted February 20, 2023 Author Share Posted February 20, 2023 (edited) PS. We climbed over 2.1K today. The trolls win the battle, but . . . Edited February 20, 2023 by Kirk_Johnston 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WavyGravy Posted February 20, 2023 Share Posted February 20, 2023 That's... not the lesson to take away from that. You keep giving them what they want. Stop it, and they'll stop doing it. I don't intend any offense, but you may be the most trollable person I've ever met because you react to absolutely everything. It's not something to be proud of, it's indicative of a profound lack of self-control. You're crowing about the number of posts in this forum, but how much of that discussion is useful, and how much of it is you getting ultra-defensive anytime someone challenges one of your opinions? The signal to noise ratio is pretty grim, and that's way more important than how many posts are being made. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayler Posted February 20, 2023 Share Posted February 20, 2023 3 minutes ago, Kirk_Johnston said: And I have no issue with that. I just wish the Internet would let me properly destroy him for his utter blindness of what he walked into. Oh lordy. I don't think you understand the concept of trolling. In what world or scenario would a troll be destroyed with a wall of text? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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