System Shock Remake (Discussion)

[Creamhoven]

Hello fellow system shockers,

 

Today I want to open a discussion on the remake of the masterpiece that is System Shock. It is hard to understand how sophisticated this game is if you are unable to recognize it's esoteric symbology.

 

Warren Spector is a designer, director and producer with a professional understanding of symbolism. Some of his works later down the line got more into conspiRatoral type of thinking, but that is not what we are discussing here today. Look at the style of 'Deus Ex - The Conspiracy' world and how it closely matches that of The Matrix and many other media products. In an interview Spector noted that the similarities were coincedental, and the time of production of the Matrix movie and Deus Ex overlapped.

 

A brief look at Warren Spectors biographial background may give us some insight how he was able to create such a sophisticated game with such an claustrophobic and paranoid quality:

 

'Spector grew up in Manhatten, which he described as a sometimes hostile environment where "short, pudgy, Jewish kids didn't fare well". He showed an intense devotion to whatever topic became his focus at any given time, from dinosaurs and airplanes as a small boy, to an interest in law by the sixth grade. At age 13, Spector had decided he wanted to be a film critic, and by high school, his interests expanded to include cars and basketball.' -Wikipedia

 

Please feel free to share your thoughts on the original System Shock release.

 

Now to the remake. Well... I understand that Night Dive has a good reputation. And don't get me wrong, my critique on the remake is more of a subjective nature. Still, something tells me that my objections with this remake might resonate with many.

 

System Shock is a very particular game. It is an entertainment product of a time where the approach to games was often quite unique and arguable with a more serious artistical ambition. For this reason not any look will do for this one. The shiny and flashy style night dive went for is a quite unfortunate pick in my opinion. This is the type of look I can see in  a need for speed underground type of game. System Shock, however, is a bleak, paranoid, claustrophobic experience. It is unsettling. It is extremely hostile enviroment where survival seems unlikely. Fear, terror, cold sweat... It is a nightmare and not a disco. What the fudge night dive, seriously...

 

Please share your thoughts.

Edited May 29, 2023 by Creamhoven

[Flojomojo]

There’s a thread about this already 

 

[Creamhoven]

5 hours ago, Flojomojo said:

There’s a thread about this already 

 

Thanks for the information about this thread on the System Shock Kickstarter.

 

This thread critiques and discusses the artistical direction of the finished product in particular.

Edited May 30, 2023 by Creamhoven

[roots.genoa]

10 hours ago, Creamhoven said:

It is a nightmare and not a disco.

Well, I personally love disco, but disco is a nightmare to some people. 🤷‍♂️

[digdugnate]

3 hours ago, roots.genoa said:

Well, I personally love disco, but disco is a nightmare to some people. 🤷‍♂️

 

"Disco Stu doesn't advertise!"

[Creamhoven]

9 hours ago, roots.genoa said:

Well, I personally love disco, but disco is a nightmare to some people. 🤷‍♂️

I think they are called heterosexuals, sacre bleu.

[roots.genoa]

3 hours ago, Creamhoven said:

I think they are called heterosexuals, sacre bleu.

😒

[Creamhoven]

11 minutes ago, roots.genoa said:

😒

Maybe this will cheer you up:

https://youtu.be/SkypZuY6ZvA&t=18s

[Creamhoven]

Here a side by side comparison:

 

[roots.genoa]

10 hours ago, Creamhoven said:

Maybe this will cheer you up:

https://youtu.be/SkypZuY6ZvA&t=18s

It won't. I don't like the Bee Gees. 🙂

[Creamhoven]

13 hours ago, roots.genoa said:

It won't. I don't like the Bee Gees. 🙂

Maybe this?

 

[Creamhoven]

In diso inferno not system shock but shock system.

[roots.genoa]

10 hours ago, Creamhoven said:

Maybe this?

No, too repetitive for me (and that's not disco - having "disco" in the name doesn't mean anything, there are countless examples of that). But maybe if you actually listened to modern music, you would now about it.

[Creamhoven]

On 6/1/2023 at 7:12 AM, roots.genoa said:

No, too repetitive for me (and that's not disco - having "disco" in the name doesn't mean anything, there are countless examples of that). But maybe if you actually listened to modern music, you would now about it.

Okay, maybe this:

https://youtu.be/3CmFhneifgg&t=10s

[roots.genoa]

9 hours ago, Creamhoven said:

Okay, maybe this:

https://youtu.be/3CmFhneifgg&t=10s

That's not even funny, man.

[Creamhoven]

39 minutes ago, roots.genoa said:

That's not even funny, man.

Okay

[Creamhoven]

On 6/3/2023 at 7:06 AM, roots.genoa said:

That's not even funny, man.

What about this:

 

[82-T/A]

So, I bought the game, and absolutely like it. That said, you get to replay the entire first level of System Shock when you beat System Shock 2... I can't remember how it fits into the story line, but basically this is a three-peat for me, essentially.

 

I bought it, would buy it again, and I'm going through it. But I generally do not like (as much) games that are a recreation of the exact same game. It's totally faithful to the original, and no complaints... but replaying something that I've already played before is a little less exciting for me. Part of it has to do with the nostalgia aspect of it. I think I may even end up enjoying the original System Shock more simply because it's what I'm used to and when playing it, I'm also reliving that aspect of it.

 

Take for example, if you remade Pool of Radiance (old DOS TSR game) with a whole new engine, but same exact storyline... I'd probably buy it and play it, but I don't know how excited I would be to replay it. On the other hand, an "enhanced" edition of the game, playing it with the newer engine (that's also old) that games like Treasures of the Savage Frontier were played on... I might enjoy it a little more. All the feels would be there. Like, I really liked the "enhanced edition" that they made for the SS2 game. Basically exact same game, just improved the graphics of the individual characters.

 

 

I definitely don't want to be a stick in the mud, I really like System Shock, glad they made the game, bought it... think other people should buy it, and I will play through it in it's entirety just as I did the original.

 

I would mostly though, like to see a System Shock 3... and that's really what I'm waiting for. (I know there's some rights / copyright issues or whatever it is).

 

 

EDIT: Also, I like disco too. I like pretty much all disco, including the Bee Gees. I don't really listen to it all that often, no where near as much as I used to in the late 90s / early 2000s... but I still like it.

Edited June 19, 2023 by 82-T/A

[Creamhoven]

8 hours ago, 82-T/A said:

So, I bought the game, and absolutely like it. That said, you get to replay the entire first level of System Shock when you beat System Shock 2... I can't remember how it fits into the story line, but basically this is a three-peat for me, essentially.

 

I bought it, would buy it again, and I'm going through it. But I generally do not like (as much) games that are a recreation of the exact same game. It's totally faithful to the original, and no complaints... but replaying something that I've already played before is a little less exciting for me. Part of it has to do with the nostalgia aspect of it. I think I may even end up enjoying the original System Shock more simply because it's what I'm used to and when playing it, I'm also reliving that aspect of it.

 

Take for example, if you remade Pool of Radiance (old DOS TSR game) with a whole new engine, but same exact storyline... I'd probably buy it and play it, but I don't know how excited I would be to replay it. On the other hand, an "enhanced" edition of the game, playing it with the newer engine (that's also old) that games like Treasures of the Savage Frontier were played on... I might enjoy it a little more. All the feels would be there. Like, I really liked the "enhanced edition" that they made for the SS2 game. Basically exact same game, just improved the graphics of the individual characters.

 

 

I definitely don't want to be a stick in the mud, I really like System Shock, glad they made the game, bought it... think other people should buy it, and I will play through it in it's entirety just as I did the original.

 

I would mostly though, like to see a System Shock 3... and that's really what I'm waiting for. (I know there's some rights / copyright issues or whatever it is).

 

 

EDIT: Also, I like disco too. I like pretty much all disco, including the Bee Gees. I don't really listen to it all that often, no where near as much as I used to in the late 90s / early 2000s... but I still like it.

Hello 82-T/A,

 

thanks for your feedback! I see your point that it is a bit underwhelming to onlyget what is essentially recycled content. I also was hoping for a true System Shock 3 experience by Warren Spector. Let's hope for the best.

 

Concerning the remake. Did the visuals work for you, in context to the atmosphere the original was going for? I am concerned that this would put me off, and I wouldn't finish the game.

 

How do you feel about funky town?

 

[82-T/A]

52 minutes ago, Creamhoven said:

Hello 82-T/A,

 

thanks for your feedback! I see your point that it is a bit underwhelming to onlyget what is essentially recycled content. I also was hoping for a true System Shock 3 experience by Warren Spector. Let's hope for the best.

 

Concerning the remake. Did the visuals work for you, in context to the atmosphere the original was going for? I am concerned that this would put me off, and I wouldn't finish the game.

 

Visuals are fantastic... the game is excellent. I'm still just getting out of the first levels... medical, which is the least exciting levels in the entire game. I've never been particularly fond of the Cyber game either... so I almost think I'm going to restart and just make the cyber game incredibly easy. I literally used to do offensive cyber operations for the government, so some cartoonish idea of cyber is kind of silly... and I don't think I'd be missing much to just set that to completely easy. I do remember that the other levels were a bit more interesting visually... so I'm looking forward to that. Still, I want SS3.

 

 

52 minutes ago, Creamhoven said:

How do you feel about funky town?

 

 

I was in a foreign country with my parents, and I left the apartment to go walk around the town. I came back because I realized I'd forgotten my wallet... only to find this song blasting in the apartment and my parents were having sex. So... when I hear this song, it's brings back visuals that are... how do you say, something I'd like to avoid? Haha...

 

[jerseystyle]

On 5/30/2023 at 1:10 PM, roots.genoa said:

😒

 

On 5/30/2023 at 9:50 AM, Creamhoven said:

I think they are called heterosexuals, sacre bleu.

Wow, so in addition to everything else, homophobic too. Nice.

[roots.genoa]

2 hours ago, jerseystyle said:

 

Wow, so in addition to everything else, homophobic too. Nice.

To be fair I sometimes do a similar joke (when people ask me if I'd like tea, I sometimes reply "no thank you, I'm straight" depending on who's asking), but I obviously don't do it on a public forum. 🙂

[jerseystyle]

6 hours ago, roots.genoa said:

To be fair I sometimes do a similar joke (when people ask me if I'd like tea, I sometimes reply "no thank you, I'm straight" depending on who's asking), but I obviously don't do it on a public forum. 🙂

Yeah I mean it’s all context and knowing your audience. But to do that you’d have to be a human being and not some weird amalgamation of troll stereotypes misquoting Goethe and TT in the same paragraph.

[82-T/A]

So... how far have you guys gotten in the new System Shock?

 

As I mentioned, I've been playing it, but already tiring of the cyber stuff, so I think I'm going to make it super easy. I like the puzzles and challenges outside of the cyber stuff, so I'll probably restart the game.

 

The medical level was always mostly my least favorite level... just curious if you guys have gotten past this stage (substantially) and really seen some of the more modern renditions of the other classic levels? I'm really looking forward to see what the green spaces look like.

 

FYI, I ran into a bug. I was killed in an elevator, so when I re-spawned in the healing chamber, it kept playing the elevator music everywhere I went until I got out of the game.

[roots.genoa]

I haven't played it yet since I'm waiting for it to be released on a console.