Decent XE mechanical keyboard for Atari XE computers - how to order one

[ScreamingAtTheRadio]

15 minutes ago, leech said:

So far the issues I have had with my install is stability (am I supposed to put the original plate under?) And my shift key has the bar holders on the side so I had to dremel the board wver so slightly so they wouldn't rub on the side (left shift key, the right was fine).  I still need to plug mine in and give it a spin, and to figure out how to solidigy it so it isn't moving around.

Sorry you've had those issues. On stability, it's not been an issue for me, but you're not the first one to mention it, so I'll try to find a way to print some additional parts to stabilize the assembly with the case. I also have an idea to further improve rigidity overall, although the plate should already be fulfilling that role. You don't need the original plate.

As for your left shift issue, would you be able to PM me a photo of that?

[leech]

4 minutes ago, ScreamingAtTheRadio said:

Sorry you've had those issues. On stability, it's not been an issue for me, but you're not the first one to mention it, so I'll try to find a way to print some additional parts to stabilize the assembly with the case. I also have an idea to further improve rigidity overall, although the plate should already be fulfilling that role. You don't need the original plate.

As for your left shift issue, would you be able to PM me a photo of that?

Certainly.  Now that I think about it, I bet the stability issue is two things.  One, needing to fold the ribbon cable a bit so it isn't trying to lift the keyboard.  Second is that I do not have any of the shielding in place, because of all the mods.  Not sure if it usually helps with holding it in place or not.

[ScreamingAtTheRadio]

Just now, leech said:

Certainly.  Now that I think about it, I bet the stability issue is two things.  One, needing to fold the ribbon cable a bit so it isn't trying to lift the keyboard.  Second is that I do not have any of the shielding in place, because of all the mods.  Not sure if it usually helps with holding it in place or not.

Aha... So the ribbon cable thing is interesting, I've been using two different brands, one being stiffer than the other. I'm guessing you have the stiff kind. Those cables are designed to be folded, you should be fine. Getting the cable to nicely avoid the neighboring plastic column can be tricky. I should probably add a photo to the docs. Also, I'm moving away from the adapter PCB in the next revision, replacing the whole adapter + FFC with a new flexible PCB that plug directly into the motherboard's connector. The adapter will still be available for those who prefer to replace the connector on their motherboard.

Another similar issue I've seen is that some people have had height issues with the solder points coinciding with the case's two central pillars. This is also easily fixed by nipping those solder points to even the height. I should and will mention that in the documentation.

Shielding or no shielding should be your choice, the keyboard is designed so the flat cable can make its way between the shielding and the case. Some people say they've had to remove the shield, I'm not sure why.

[leech]

Ha, my shielding is removed due to vbxe, u1mb, etc. 

 

I'll upload whatever STLs I end up creating to stabilize / replace the keyboard bars.  The stabilizing bits for the spacebar work great, so I didn't move that over.  But the missing ones on my shift keys is kind of annoying.

[ScreamingAtTheRadio]

20 minutes ago, leech said:

I'll upload whatever STLs I end up creating to stabilize / replace the keyboard bars.  The stabilizing bits for the spacebar work great, so I didn't move that over.  But the missing ones on my shift keys is kind of annoying.

In an ideal world, the vintage left shift would also use Durock v2 stabilizers, but unfortunately the design of the Atari key caps makes that impossible, there just isn't the clearance. That's why I ship Costar stabilizers, but those are awful to work with and the end result is unconvincing. On the keyboards that I build for my own usage, I don't even bother stabilizing left shift. It works fine for me, but I want to give all the options to users. Note that no matter what, if you want left shift stabilization, you need at least to bend your metal bars to fit around the switch. The Costars can also go upside down which works better for some variants of key caps that exist out there. Some caps also have little flaps to attach the bar that can be reversed, and that helps in some cases.

[P1r]

Just found out about this today via the 8-bit and more video. Looks fantastic! Fingers crossed for a european distributor (or winning at the lottery  ) and the XL version.

[ScreamingAtTheRadio]

Speaking of, here's a link to Rick's video:

 

[+Stephen]

I'm really not setup for recording sadly.  I'd love to show a video of mine, but it would be nothing more than a hand held cell phone vid.

[+scorpio_ny]

On 7/24/2023 at 12:49 PM, ScreamingAtTheRadio said:

Thanks @mattsoft for the nice review. I'll probably add some spacers in kits based on your feedback, and a hole in the space bar adapters.

 

@bf2k+ the XL version is considerably more complex to design, mostly because of the split PCB and the way the keyboard is attached to the top of the case. But it's coming...

Hi @ScreamingAtTheRadio,

 

I do not know if this helps, but there is a sister project for the 800XL mechanical keyboards here on the forums:

XL Technical Keyboard Drawings

 

There are PCB's and STL's that have been posted to the project. I have worked on it a bit too by making adjustments to some to the STL files to accommodate the variance in the cases, keyboard plates and to use low profile MX switches. I have already built several successfully. Maybe there is some information there that can assist you.

 

 

[ScreamingAtTheRadio]

12 minutes ago, scorpio_ny said:

 

I do not know if this helps, but there is a sister project for the 800XL mechanical keyboards here on the forums:

XL Technical Keyboard Drawings

 

There are PCB's and STL's that have been posted to the project. I have worked on it a bit too by making adjustments to some to the STL files to accommodate the variance in the cases, keyboard plates and to use low profile MX switches. I have already built several successfully. Maybe there is some information there that can assist you.

Thanks, I appreciate the pointers, but the keyboard is complete already:

 

[+scorpio_ny]

Wow! Very nice!

 

[ScreamingAtTheRadio]

On 7/28/2023 at 8:39 PM, Stephen said:

I'm really not setup for recording sadly.  I'd love to show a video of mine, but it would be nothing more than a hand held cell phone vid.

I always love to see photos from people's builds...

 

On 7/30/2023 at 11:39 AM, scorpio_ny said:

I do not know if this helps, but there is a sister project for the 800XL mechanical keyboards here on the forums:

XL Technical Keyboard Drawings

Thanks again for sharing this thread. It contains a boatload of very interesting information and prior art. Still going through it, and there's definitely some info to integrate to the production models of the XL keyboard.

[leech]

4 hours ago, ScreamingAtTheRadio said:

I always love to see photos from people's builds...

I think I want to figure out a way to stabilize the flex a little in the middle (only noticeable on the Help key), then I will post some photos.

[+Stephen]

6 hours ago, ScreamingAtTheRadio said:

On 7/28/2023 at 11:39 PM, Stephen said:

I'm really not setup for recording sadly.  I'd love to show a video of mine, but it would be nothing more than a hand held cell phone vid.

I always love to see photos from people's builds...

Easiest to just post a link to my Flickr album so I don't waste bandwidth here.  This 130XE was my xmas present in 1988 - I believe I have digitized the VHS recording of my brother & I opening our gifts that year.

 

[+scorpio_ny]

7 hours ago, ScreamingAtTheRadio said:

I always love to see photos from people's builds...

 

Thanks again for sharing this thread. It contains a boatload of very interesting information and prior art. Still going through it, and there's definitely some info to integrate to the production models of the XL keyboard.

No problem! A lot of credit goes to @ivop and @flemingt for putting the time effort into it and sharing the information on the work they they did. It is really gratifying to see you do the same for the community and it really appreciated.

[+scorpio_ny]

1 hour ago, Stephen said:

Easiest to just post a link to my Flickr album so I don't waste bandwidth here.  This 130XE was my xmas present in 1988 - I believe I have digitized the VHS recording of my brother & I opening our gifts that year.

 

Looks great!

[+Ripdubski]

On 7/30/2023 at 2:53 PM, ScreamingAtTheRadio said:

Thanks, I appreciate the pointers, but the keyboard is complete already:

 

 

where can we order?

[ScreamingAtTheRadio]

1 hour ago, Ripdubski said:

where can we order?

The XL keyboard is still a prototype, sorry. The production version is not quite ready, and I don't yet know the cost of all parts. I'll start a new thread when I'm ready to take orders. If you want to PM me though, I can put you on a waiting list.

[+scorpio_ny]

Hi @ScreamingAtTheRadio,

 

I was not sure if this the right thread or the original one to ask: I am looking for the SVG file for the graphite keyboard so I can place an order for the keycaps. I only see the SVG file for the white one at your site. Is the file available?

 

Thank you!

[ScreamingAtTheRadio]

9 minutes ago, scorpio_ny said:

Hi @ScreamingAtTheRadio,

 

I was not sure if this the right thread or the original one to ask: I am looking for the SVG file for the graphite keyboard so I can place an order for the keycaps. I only see the SVG file for the white one at your site. Is the file available?

 

Thank you!

I think this is the file you're looking for:

https://github.com/bleroy/3d-junkyard/blob/main/Atari130MX/Caps/wasd-inkscape-iso85-atari-130mx-Stock_Graphite_Caps.svg

[+scorpio_ny]

I was actually looking for the one with the large enter key like what you had demoed with the white one and did not know this existed! Thank you! I would not have to set anything different on the PCB to accommodate the more traditional layout for the modern keycaps, correct?

 

By the way, I was reviewing your comments on the stabs for the left SHIFT key. Does it use the standard co-star wires or would I have to make my own? The reason I ask is that I actually have a wire bender and wire that I used for another keyboard project and can make my own custom stab wires.

[ScreamingAtTheRadio]

2 minutes ago, scorpio_ny said:

I was actually looking for the one with the large enter key like what you had demoed with the white one and did not know this existed! Thank you! I would not have to set anything different on the PCB to accommodate the more traditional layout for the modern keycaps, correct?

 

By the way, I was reviewing your comments on the stabs for the left SHIFT key. Does it use the standard co-star wires or would I have to make my own? The reason I ask is that I actually have a wire bender and wire that I used for another keyboard project and can make my own custom stab wires.

The ISO return key and layout are something you specify when you order the caps (also mention 2.25u left shift).

 

For the vintage layout, you have to solder two jumper wires differently on the left of the keyboard. That switches the key over the left shift between caps and control. The rest of the keyboard is just about what switches you install where.

 

Left shift, if you use modern key caps, uses Durock v2 stabilizers like the space bar. Those come with bars. If using vintage caps, you need to use Costars and it quit efinnicky to get right. You can bend your vintage bars or build your own.

[+scorpio_ny]

13 minutes ago, ScreamingAtTheRadio said:

The ISO return key and layout are something you specify when you order the caps (also mention 2.25u left shift).

Ah I see. I send the SVG you linked and request it in the order. Got it! I will probably stick with the layout in the SVG file. Since I am used to that layout.

 

13 minutes ago, ScreamingAtTheRadio said:

For the vintage layout, you have to solder two jumper wires differently on the left of the keyboard. That switches the key over the left shift between caps and control. The rest of the keyboard is just about what switches you install where.

I am going to use the modern layout. I apologize that  I was not more clear in my question: If I use a non-ISO return key with the modern layout, do I have to set anything special on the PCB to recognize the different return key?

 

13 minutes ago, ScreamingAtTheRadio said:

Left shift, if you use modern key caps, uses Durock v2 stabilizers like the space bar. Those come with bars. If using vintage caps, you need to use Costars and it quit efinnicky to get right. You can bend your vintage bars or build your own.

Ah ok! I am going all modern, so I should be set then!

 

[ScreamingAtTheRadio]

54 minutes ago, scorpio_ny said:

I am going to use the modern layout. I apologize that  I was not more clear in my question: If I use a non-ISO return key with the modern layout, do I have to set anything special on the PCB to recognize the different return key

You don’t. Only the key above left shift needs special setup (which you’ll have to do no matter what). All other keys rely on their position alone. Return has two switch footprints:one for vintage and one for modern.

 

[flashjazzcat]

Finally assembled my keyboard and hope to manufacture and sell them in the UK once we have finished moving house.

 

Edited August 20, 2023 by flashjazzcat