Does anyone actually pay $20 for ROMs?

[+johnnywc]

4 minutes ago, BobAtari said:

 

Quote

As you may know, Al pays thousands of dollars up front to fund the printing of the boxes, manuals and labels so this was a factor in determining the somewhat higher price.

 

This was an interesting snippet. So us ROM-buyers are in fact effectively subsidising the people buying the physical cartridge?

 

This is a bit of a stretch.  ROM-buyers are paying only for the ROMs provided by Champ Games, regardless of the price or what decisions went into setting them.  This is a community, and AtariAge and Champ Games have decided to work together to help bring these games (both physical and digital) to the people that want to play them.  Some of those decisions are made to help us coexist without putting a financial strain on the physical production of the games.  Nothing more, nothing less.

 

Hope that clears things up!

 

 

[+DrVenkman]

5 hours ago, BobAtari said:

but does anyone actually pay $20 for a digital ROM?

Yes. Totally worth it for the right games. 

[+johnnywc]

17 minutes ago, BobAtari said:

All I can say, speaking solely for myself, is that at $10 a game ChampGames (for example) would have had $70-80 of my money.

As I mentioned above, we are always more than willing to work within someone's budget for bulk purchases, discounts, etc.  Feel free to send me an email at champdotgames@gmail.com and let me know what you're interested in and we'll see if we can work something out.  

 

PS Lady Bug (original 16K) and Conquest of Mars are both $10 each and seem to fit in your budget if those are titles you're interested in, with Scramble, Super Cobra Arcade and Avalanche priced at $15 each.

[+splendidnut]

3 hours ago, 5-11under said:

If your main goal is maximize dollar input, you're likely better off creating something else besides videogames for old systems.

 

If your goal is to have fun and make a handful or so dollars for each of about 20-200 games, then maybe this is for you. You could increase the dollars or quantities via physical product, game type/quality, and/or system selection.

Well, I try and have multiple goals... but my main goal is entirely selfish:  to make things I'm interested in making.  What happens beyond that is ultimately determined by other people.

 

 

 

[juansolo]

1 hour ago, BobAtari said:

Well, it's not if you're expecting to make a profit on it. That's pretty much the opposite of the definition of a "labour of love" 😉 😄

I don't think anyone is making a profit out of the homebrew scene. I think you're seriously underestimating how much effort goes into these things.

Edited July 11, 2023 by juansolo

[RevEng]

1 hour ago, BobAtari said:

As I suspected, there's simply NO phrasing gentle enough on this issue that will stop certain people getting all indignant and prickly.

"shove it" isn't gentle by any stretch, my dude. Set those untested suspicions aside, and try again without telling people to insert things inside themselves. You get what you give.

 

When everybody around you is suddenly indignant and prickly, surely the problem must be them! /s

 

[+x=usr(1536)]

 

1 hour ago, BobAtari said:

I'm a former professional videogame developer with one of the UK's most successful producers of the 1990s, and I've subsequently been involved in quite a lot of homebrew development (almost all of which was for free, as it happens, just for the love of it). I suspect I know rather a lot more about "making amazing games", and the economics involved, than most of the readers of this forum. But that's neither here nor there. I was just asking a question because I was interested. Thanks again to all who answered it.

 

With an attitude like that, I can understand why you'd be describing yourself as a former videogame developer.

 

Just as a small hint: there are more than a few of us here who have worked in that industry, and people with your attitude generally didn't last very long in it.  Nobody wants to work with the person who sees themselves as the most important little rockstar at the company, and word spreads between companies about toxic people.

[digdugnate]

absolutely I would and have.  i feel like it helps build community with others and incentivizes folks that have the technical capability to create.

 

i feel like i have the capability, but not really the time, so i'm more than happy to support others however i can.

[+bent_pin]

6 hours ago, splendidnut said:

Threads like this make me wonder if it's worth investing time and effort into creating things.

We have to climb the mountain because it's there. It's also nice to make a few dollars along the way.

[BobAtari]

49 minutes ago, RevEng said:

"shove it" isn't gentle by any stretch

 

Hahahahahaha! It really, really, really is. For God's sake don't go on Twitter, you might die 🤣

[BobAtari]

32 minutes ago, x=usr(1536) said:

With an attitude like that, I can understand why you'd be describing yourself as a former videogame developer.

 

Just as a small hint: there are more than a few of us here who have worked in that industry, and people with your attitude generally didn't last very long in it.  Nobody wants to work with the person who sees themselves as the most important little rockstar at the company, and word spreads between companies about toxic people.

 

Goodness me, aren't you unpleasant?

[MrTrust]

Sometimes it really is the children who are wrong.

 

I'm sure the craftsmanship of a Rolex Submariner is "worth" the $20k it would cost to buy one when you consider the cost of engineering, labor, QC, the piece being a store of value, etc.  I don't need a high school-level lecture on basic economics to understand the concept.  I'm sure it's a very reasonable price, that $20k.  Nevertheless, they can indeed "shove it."  Reasonable or not, I'm not in a position to spend that kind of money on luxury, and even if I were to become so, a wristwatch ain't even close to the top of that list, much as I would love to live in a world where I could just indulge myself like that.  There's nothing particularly rude or ignorant about such a disposition (although "shove it" is probably overly coarse).

 

I have not yet coughed up $20 for a ROM.  I have paid for several ROMs, and I've tipped for ROMs that would otherwise be free, but I have not yet seen a ROM I've wanted enough to pay $20.  Might happen in the future.  $20 is perfectly reasonable for a ROM, but for me, that's the threshold where I start paying attention where leisure money is getting spent, and in that case, it's going to have to be something I want more than I do x, y, or z other game.  So far, no Atari ROMs made the cut; but I don't consider it out of the question.

 

What would be really nice would be an Atari club similar to the old Columbia House model: pay a yearly membership fee and receive discounts on selected ROMs, plus maybe a monthly ROM as part of the deal.  Maybe you could even have a mechanism for members to trade licenses with each other or something.  Yes, Columbia House was sort of a rip-off, but the point here is to support a network of homebrewers in a sort of old-school patronage way.  I'd be more apt to participate in something that's a regular, more even cost than trying to keep up with all these releases and then start dropping $10-$70 every time.

 

  

[+bent_pin]

@BobAtari This isn't Twitter. This is a technical and hobby forum where people are supposed to respect each other, even if their opinions are vastly different. 

 

Your comments about America and your general tone are both distasteful. If you can't make a point without knocking others then you haven't spent enough time thinking about it. Please consider putting more thought into how you speak to others here.

 

Nobody is forcing you to pay $20 for a ROM. If it's not your cup of tea then you don't have to order it, but there's no need to denigrate the creators.

[BobAtari]

4 minutes ago, bent_pin said:

This isn't Twitter. This is a technical and hobby forum where people are supposed to respect each other, even if their opinions are vastly different. 

 

Your comments about America and your general tone are both distasteful. If you can't make a point without knocking others then you haven't spent enough time thinking about it. Please consider putting more thought into how you speak to others here.

 

Nobody is forcing you to pay $20 for a ROM. If it's not your cup of tea then you don't have to order it, but there's no need to denigrate the creators.

 

I haven't been disrespectful to anyone. If you're finding this extremely light British humour - and that's how it's spelled, btw - somehow upsetting, I respectfully suggest you, how is it you say it over there, "suck a butt"?

 

Anyway, I fear the part of the conversation where sensible people talk is over now and we're about to see the Whiny Internet Warrior takeover, so I think I'll slip away and leave you to it.

[+bent_pin]

3 minutes ago, BobAtari said:

I'll slip away and leave you to it.

👍

[Razzie.P]

14 minutes ago, BobAtari said:

I haven't been disrespectful to anyone. If you're finding this extremely light British humour - and that's how it's spelled, btw - somehow upsetting, I respectfully suggest you, how is it you say it over there, "suck a butt"?

 

Seems like people definitely feel differently.  If you don't agree, you can shove it.  Or suck a butt.

[Neuronic]

As someone who has made 2600 games, for me they are a labor of love so I give them away free in Rom form. But as someone who knows the amount of effort that goes into them, I do not want to hold back the creativity that's unleashed by the potential profit if you develop to the standards of creators like Champ Games. I'm totally okay with paying 20 dollars for Roms of that caliber, if it means more like them are in our future!

[jerry1071]

yes i am willing to pay for roms

[tkarner]

So let me introduce another wrinkle to this topic. I don't mind paying for a product but I do mind paying for a product twice. It's my opinion that if I purchase a cartridge, the download should be free (or maybe some very nominal amount like $1 to cover the overhead cost of the electrons). I mean, I already paid for the use of the IP when I bought the cartridge.

[+Gemintronic]

I think the reality is you lose something when a physical product goes ephemeral - either through lost physical sales or unauthorized downloads.

 

There may be room for different games between physical and digital.  Target one or the other for a specific game (but make unique releases for both).

[+x=usr(1536)]

2 hours ago, BobAtari said:

I haven't been disrespectful to anyone. If you're finding this extremely light British humour - and that's how it's spelled, btw - somehow upsetting, I respectfully suggest you, how is it you say it over there, "suck a butt"?

What you seem to be missing in all of this is that your behaviour isn't considered acceptable there either.  Stop pretending that you somehow get a pass on this because you're apparently in the UK.

2 hours ago, BobAtari said:

Goodness me, aren't you unpleasant?

Are you familiar with the term, "ad hominem?"  If not, you should be.  It's not a winning strategy.

[+johnnywc]

1 hour ago, tkarner said:

So let me introduce another wrinkle to this topic. I don't mind paying for a product but I do mind paying for a product twice. It's my opinion that if I purchase a cartridge, the download should be free (or maybe some very nominal amount like $1 to cover the overhead cost of the electrons). I mean, I already paid for the use of the IP when I bought the cartridge.

Good point.  Unfortunately, AtariAge and Champ Games are not one in the same so this isn't as easy as it sounds.  In my experience, typically physical media and digital media are priced separately, and purchasing one doesn't necessarily mean you're entitled to the other.  Of course there are combo deals where the price of a digital download is included in the physical copy so it appears you're 'getting it for free' but most likely you are not.  Those package deals, as I mention above, have the benefit of having both medias sold by the same company so it's also easier to bundle them.

 

With that said, Champ Games does offer a 50% discount on a ROM if you have already purchased the physical copy from AtariAge, which we feel is fair.  In light of the latest developments with AtariAge and homebrews of arcade conversions, this will no longer be the case moving forward.  If Champ Games is able to self-publish our games, perhaps we will be in a better position to offer more competitive pricing and bundles in the future.  

 

Hope that helps!

 

Thanks,

John

 

[MrTrust]

3 hours ago, BobAtari said:

I haven't been disrespectful to anyone. If you're finding this extremely light British humour - and that's how it's spelled, btw - somehow upsetting, I respectfully suggest you, how is it you say it over there, "suck a butt"?

 

Many people here are extremely sensitive, and the consensus is, unfortunately, that being passive-aggressive, condescending, and generally acting like a hectoring schoolmarm don't fall under the umbrella of rudeness.  Also, the way this forum behaves toward new members is disgraceful.  Wish it were otherwise.

 

That said, you did commit a faux pas with the "shove it" remark, which was gratuitous and was perceived as an insult toward people who have contributed a hell of a lot more to this community than you or me.  The objection may have been delivered in an insufferable way, but why are you now doubling down on it in such a juvenile way?

 

You shouldn't have said "shove it." Is it going to kill you to admit one small error?  At least have the courtesy not to act like an even bigger douche - or, if you prefer, tosser - after someone is willing to stick up for you.  

[+Gemintronic]

Quote

If you're taking a flippant "shove it" as some sort of tirade, dear God, how do you even get out of the house in the morning?

 

I don't.  After a foot injury it takes great effort to spend even a few moments in a hobby shop.

 

I instead make games and enjoy the online community that supports such fare.

 

Is it worth doubling down on rude behavior for the sport of argument?

 

[Jess Ragan]

I'll admit, $20 is a hard sell for an Atari 2600 ROM. But at the same time, these are really good games. Champeau shoots for the moon with these conversions, and they're typically better than the lion's share of games in the 2600 library, including many of the titles released after the system's post-crash renaissance. When your games are in the same league as Solaris and Winter Games and Midnight Magic, you can get away with charging a premium price for them.

 

By contrast, I offer the Solar Plexus ROM for free, and you, uh, get what you pay for with that. (I really should do a 7800 sequel with better graphics and more variety, I really should. I'm too busy trying not to die from heat stroke at the moment, though.)