C0pperdragon GTIAdigitizer (for Atari 8bit)

[+scorpio_ny]

Hi everyone,

 

I want to let you know of another way to get crystal clear output from the Atari to a HDMI display. C0pperdragon who is known for his video enhancement projects for the Commodore line of computers has come out with the GTIAdigitizer (for Atari 8bit). This is an extension of the HDMItoRGB project. It is a very simple installation. In the installation, it leverages the built in RF modulator to connect externally. It requires one have a Raspberry PI and either the official RGBtoHDMI Pi hat or the one that offered by C0pperdragon. I just received mine to test it out and it works great!

 

Here is the the project: GTIAdigitizer-(for-Atari-8bit)

Here is the link to his Tindie page to order one: C0pperdragon Tindie site

 

Here is a pic of me using on my Atari 800XL. This is my test machine which has it RF modulator removed, so I set up with a connector.

 

[ScreamingAtTheRadio]

That's quite interesting and potentially a good alternative to the unobtainable Sophia2 provided you have a spare Raspberry Pi to use it with. I ordered a board with the intention to explore hacking on the RGB2HDMI side.

Edited August 7, 2023 by ScreamingAtTheRadio

[+x=usr(1536)]

Interesting approach, and the output does look good.

 

I am wondering why RF was used instead of directly taking signals from the GTIA, however.

[+DjayBee]

28 minutes ago, x=usr(1536) said:

Interesting approach, and the output does look good.

 

I am wondering why RF was used instead of directly taking signals from the GTIA, however.

It does take the signals from GTIA. It only "abuses" the RCA jack of the TV out as its output port - after cutting off the output from the modulator.

[+scorpio_ny]

3 hours ago, x=usr(1536) said:

Interesting approach, and the output does look good.

 

I am wondering why RF was used instead of directly taking signals from the GTIA, however.

The RF is just leveraged as connector to make it a solder-less install. You can use your own cabling if you prefer.  If you look at my picture, the computer has no RF modulator. He used this approach also with the Commodore 64 and C128 versions as well.

 

Edited August 7, 2023 by scorpio_ny

[+scorpio_ny]

7 hours ago, ScreamingAtTheRadio said:

That's quite interesting and potentially a good alternative to the unobtainable Sophia2 provided you have a spare Raspberry Pi to use it with. I ordered a board with the intention to explore hacking on the RGB2HDMI side.

Yes, the components to make this are more easily obtainable and less expensive. A Raspberry PI Zero, which has been becoming more available, is at an affordable price. You can purchase the Raspberry PI hat that  C0pperdragon sells which is cheaper or order(or build) the the RGBtoHDMI hat with a properly made cable.

Edited August 7, 2023 by scorpio_ny

[ScreamingAtTheRadio]

4 hours ago, scorpio_ny said:

Yes, the components to make this are more easily obtainable and less expensive. A Raspberry PI Zero, which has been becoming more available, is at an affordable price. You can purchase the Raspberry PI hat that  C0pperdragon sells which is cheaper or order(or build) the the RGBtoHDMI hat with a properly made cable.

Yes, $15-16 is not bad. I'm thinking whether one could build a derived design with Pi Pico, which is an entirely different beast, for sure, but is still capable of outputting DVI and is dirt cheap (you could even completely integrate the design and have a single board with the CPLD and a 2040 chip, and not need a separate microcontroller board at all.

[+scorpio_ny]

23 minutes ago, ScreamingAtTheRadio said:

Yes, $15-16 is not bad. I'm thinking whether one could build a derived design with Pi Pico, which is an entirely different beast, for sure, but is still capable of outputting DVI and is dirt cheap (you could even completely integrate the design and have a single board with the CPLD and a 2040 chip, and not need a separate microcontroller board at all.

That would be great!  One would also need to also add an SD card slot or another way for holding the software and with the ability to apply future updates. Flash maybe? 

[ScreamingAtTheRadio]

56 minutes ago, scorpio_ny said:

That would be great!  One would also need to also add an SD card slot or another way for holding the software and with the ability to apply future updates. Flash maybe? 

Yes, if you look at the reference implementations for the 2040, this is well documented and not very difficult at all. 2040s have built-in usb (and other standard debug ports) that can be used to deploy firmware updates. Too early to say what would be possible to reprogram the CPLD after the fact without special equipment, no idea about that yet.

[... five minutes later... ]

CPLD Programming · hoglet67/RGBtoHDMI Wiki (github.com) Seems like the prior art on the current boards should be mostly applicable...

Edited August 7, 2023 by ScreamingAtTheRadio

[+x=usr(1536)]

13 hours ago, DjayBee said:

It does take the signals from GTIA. It only "abuses" the RCA jack of the TV out as its output port - after cutting off the output from the modulator.

10 hours ago, scorpio_ny said:

The RF is just leveraged as connector to make it a solder-less install. You can use your own cabling if you prefer.  If you look at my picture, the computer has no RF modulator. He used this approach also with the Commodore 64 and C128 versions as well.

 

Yep, and thanks for the clarification.  Upon re-reading, it made sense.

[Dantaipan]

The Atari 8bit device is now on v2 after TheRetroChannel uncovered an issue with v1. That said, the issue even on v1 had very minor implications and I was using it for weeks without noticing a problem on games. I not have one of these devices in an 800xl, Atari 5200, c64c and c128. The 2600 version is looking promising and should be ready for roll out soon. For 2600 I am looking to do an all-in-one build including an audio embedder. 


 

[+scorpio_ny]

Thanks @Dantaipan! 

 

A thing to note, while this works really well, it is still in the early/active stages of development.  There may be some other programs that up that may show display issues down the road. While the firmware is being updated to fix the issues as they arise, the device is not set up be field upgradable by current design. Also, developer's is reluctant at this time to send out his updates to protect his IP at this time. Additionally, sending the device back to be upgraded by the developer is very expensive due to shipping and tariffs. The developer is willing to work with the customer if there is a major issue that requires it to be swapped out.  I wanted to put that out there so it would figure in someone's calculations and set the expectations in case if they want acquire it.

 

To find out about current updates, you can visit the GitHub support page to see the latest developments.

 

[Dantaipan]

Here's a few Atari 8bit specific output photos. IPS displays don't photograph well but this gives you a general idea.

 

[Forrest]

Do composite and chroma/luma video output still work after the HDMI upgrade?

[+scorpio_ny]

5 minutes ago, Forrest said:

Do composite and chroma/luma video output still work after the HDMI upgrade?

Yes! In fact you can have both composite/chroma/luma with the GTIADigitizer running at the same time on two displays or on one with multiple inputs. I did this while I was testing the GTIADigitizer.

[ijor]

This lumacode idea is really brilliant. And it is great that allows a simple, solderless, upgrade as long as GTIA is socketed, of course. But I'm not sure the method is very efficient. The signal is digitized, converted to analog, and then digitized again. Still, IMHO, seems like something like Sophia is a better approach. Sophia, or any other GTIA (or ANTIC) replacement can be cheaper, it's more powerful, it can function as either PAL or NTSC among other things, and doesn't need the original chip.

 

But again, it is a very interesting concept and a useful alternative.

 

 

Edited October 29, 2023 by ijor

[Forrest]

Great - thanks for quick response.

[Beeblebrox]

It's an interesting alternative and great output, but you still need the original GTIA chip and these seem to fail so easily. Sophia 2 completely replaces gtia as mentioned. I have quite a few machines now that are out of action due to dead or failing original gtia chips unfortunately. 

[macsonny]

So I just received a GTIADigitizer in the mail. Took a bit of time from Astria to Australia!

 

My issue is that the screen will only show black and white colours. I have a few different devices to convert from composite to HDMI and both units give me a B&W output.

 

I've attached a few photos to show what I mean and also the installation.

Any ideas?

 

p.s. My 800XL is PAL.

 

 

Edited November 30, 2023 by macsonny

[Beeblebrox]

Does the machine give a colour output when you remove the gtiadigitizer and run from the uav setup?

 

Because you already have uav in there I wonder if that is causing an issue? Lack of a chroma signal would cause b&w normally. Also in gtiadigitizer mods I've seen the rf modulator is involved. Since you have removed yours, double check you alternative. 

 

Edit:Looking at the output on the screen in b&w I wonder if you just have the gtiadigitizer cables around the wrong way? Lots of ghosting on the image lettering too. 

Edited November 30, 2023 by Beeblebrox

[mimo]

9 minutes ago, Beeblebrox said:

I wonder if you just have the gtiadigitizer cables around the wrong way?

I wondered that too, I would expect the image to be much clearer even if only B+W.
But I've never installed one so not made any mistakes
My other thought is to try on a different TV, I have seen all sorts of wierdness with TV's not handling out of spec signals well, but that's on the analogue side 

[mimo]

.

Edited November 30, 2023 by mimo

[macsonny]

Fixed!!! I had to mess around with the settings on my RGB2HDMI and now I have a virtually flawless image. And it does work even with the other video converter installed!

 

Now, can anyone give me a hint on how I can get audio out of the Atari?

 

[mimo]

50 minutes ago, macsonny said:

Now, can anyone give me a hint on how I can get audio out of the Atari?

 

From the original A/V out din connector, then in to a set of external speakers or an audio injector to add it to your HDMI input

[Beeblebrox]

30 minutes ago, mimo said:

From the original A/V out din connector, then in to a set of external speakers or an audio injector to add it to your HDMI input

  

Excuse crude image. I just nicked it from my old AA VBXE 800XL install post and quicky edited it.

 

Hook up audio from either here on the underside of the board, or find a trace on the top of the board that links to it. If adding an audio jack, audio wire to centre pin and find a ground for the outer casing.

Edited November 30, 2023 by Beeblebrox