C0pperdragon GTIAdigitizer (for Atari 8bit)

[macsonny]

11 hours ago, Beeblebrox said:

  

Excuse crude image. I just nicked it from my old AA VBXE 800XL install post and quicky edited it.

 

Hook up audio from either here on the underside of the board, or find a trace on the top of the board that links to it. If adding an audio jack, audio wire to centre pin and find a ground for the outer casing.

Thanks for the details. I ended up purchasing a device that takes HDMI video and RCA audio, fuses the streams into a single HDMI output. Bought it on AliExpress for a decent price.

 

I have to say that I'm so impressed with the video quality from the GTIAdigitizer/RGBtoHDMI combination that I bought another complete set for my Atari 130XE. By far the best video output I've seen to date!

 

[Beeblebrox]

Mine arrived the other day. Will do a comparison with it and Sophia 2 once the gtiadigitizer is in place. Of course Sophia 2 gives you a lot more settings and features but you pay extra for that. I'd imagine the image quality will be almost identical given both digital. AFAIK not much in it when comparing HDMI to DVI. 

 

 

[+mytek]

5 minutes ago, Beeblebrox said:

Mine arrived the other day. Will do a comparison with it and Sophia 2 once the gtiadigitizer is in place. Of course Sophia 2 gives you a lot more settings and features but you pay extra for that. I'd imagine the image quality will be almost identical given both digital. AFAIK not much in it when comparing HDMI to DVI.

Can you post some clear pics of the setup from the GTIAdigitizer to the final HDMI output? I'm still not sure if I truly understand all the required pieces that make up the LumaCode to HDMI conversion. In my mind I'm thinking there is a custom board that does the LumaCode conversion connected to a Pi for the HDMI output.

[+scorpio_ny]

2 hours ago, mytek said:

Can you post some clear pics of the setup from the GTIAdigitizer to the final HDMI output? I'm still not sure if I truly understand all the required pieces that make up the LumaCode to HDMI conversion. In my mind I'm thinking there is a custom board that does the LumaCode conversion connected to a Pi for the HDMI output.

HI @Mytek,

 

You are correct. The RGBtoHDMI is a retro computer upscaler is based on a Raspberry PI with a custom hat. Here is more detail on that project.

Edited December 1, 2023 by scorpio_ny

[Beeblebrox]

@mytekAlso see here:

 

 

[+mytek]

15 hours ago, scorpio_ny said:

You are correct. The RGBtoHDMI is a retro computer upscaler is based on a Raspberry PI with a custom hat. Here is more detail on that project.

Yeah I was pretty sure that's what was required. But even in that link you posted where it shows this picture, it doesn't really define what goes where on the wiring entering the left side header.

 

 

I do have a good idea of the GTIAdigitizer side of things, where it creates a serial stream having different analog levels to represent the colors and hues in a voltage level = data bit methodology. But it's my understanding that the LumaCode output only requires a ground and single LumaCode wire to convey this to the RGBtoHDMI board. Probably requires a custom cable.

 

I'm also going to assume that the RGBtoHDMI board allows for various configurations, one being LumACode, using menu selections via the push button switches viewed over the HDMI output.

 

Well I just found that the appropriate cable which is also being sold at the Tindie site. Still be nice to have a diagram of that cable in case someone wishes to roll their own

 

LumaCode to RGBtoHDMI Cable

 

@Beeblebrox thanks for the link, but that thread isn't really all that clear either on how things actually connect together to form the complete system. Even the photos that were posted weren't focused on the interconnect between the LumaCode and the RGBtoHDMI board.

[dabone]

Here's the standard single input for the standard 6pin RGB2HDMI analog board.

For the lumacode dedicated board, he has a RCA male connector on a short cable.

 

Here's the wiki for the RGB2HDMI project.

 

https://github.com/hoglet67/RGBtoHDMI/wiki

 

I've got these running on my C128, Coco2, Coco3, Atari 800xl, C128 RGB, IBM PC with Mono, CGA and EGA. I'm awaiting a PAL video chip to convert my TI99/4a to rgb out to feed into it also.

 

The Hats directly attach to the GPIO pins of the PI and use most of them, and can only handle up to 12bit RGB.

 

 

 

 

[ECSUSER]

I know a lot of you folks are real handy with a soldering iron, but for those of us who aren't - find a Raspberry PI Zero with the header already installed. Should be about a $1 more.

 

ETA a link: https://www.pishop.us/product/raspberry-pi-zero-wireless-wh-pre-soldered-header/

 

Edited December 1, 2023 by ECSUSER

[macsonny]

2 hours ago, mytek said:

Yeah I was pretty sure that's what was required. But even in that link you posted where it shows this picture, it doesn't really define what goes where on the wiring entering the left side header.

 

 

I do have a good idea of the GTIAdigitizer side of things, where it creates a serial stream having different analog levels to represent the colors and hues in a voltage level = data bit methodology. But it's my understanding that the LumaCode output only requires a ground and single LumaCode wire to convey this to the RGBtoHDMI board. Probably requires a custom cable.

 

I'm also going to assume that the RGBtoHDMI board allows for various configurations, one being LumACode, using menu selections via the push button switches viewed over the HDMI output.

 

Well I just found that the appropriate cable which is also being sold at the Tindie site. Still be nice to have a diagram of that cable in case someone wishes to roll their own

 

LumaCode to RGBtoHDMI Cable

 

@Beeblebrox thanks for the link, but that thread isn't really all that clear either on how things actually connect together to form the complete system. Even the photos that were posted weren't focused on the interconnect between the LumaCode and the RGBtoHDMI board.

Is there some way to get audio into the Pi Zero and fuse it with the HDMI image?

 

[+scorpio_ny]

3 hours ago, mytek said:

Yeah I was pretty sure that's what was required. But even in that link you posted where it shows this picture, it doesn't really define what goes where on the wiring entering the left side header.

 

 

I do have a good idea of the GTIAdigitizer side of things, where it creates a serial stream having different analog levels to represent the colors and hues in a voltage level = data bit methodology. But it's my understanding that the LumaCode output only requires a ground and single LumaCode wire to convey this to the RGBtoHDMI board. Probably requires a custom cable.

 

I'm also going to assume that the RGBtoHDMI board allows for various configurations, one being LumACode, using menu selections via the push button switches viewed over the HDMI output.

 

Well I just found that the appropriate cable which is also being sold at the Tindie site. Still be nice to have a diagram of that cable in case someone wishes to roll their own

 

LumaCode to RGBtoHDMI Cable

 

@Beeblebrox thanks for the link, but that thread isn't really all that clear either on how things actually connect together to form the complete system. Even the photos that were posted weren't focused on the interconnect between the LumaCode and the RGBtoHDMI board.

Hi @mytek,

 

I am actually using the PI hat made by C0pperdragon customized for his project. It is also on his Tindie site. It has a cable already attached for connecting to the RF modulator. That is the one I am using in the photo in the first post.

 

[macsonny]

35 minutes ago, scorpio_ny said:

Hi @mytek,

 

I am actually using the PI hat made by C0pperdragon customized for his project. It is also on his Tindie site. It has a cable already attached for connecting to the RF modulator. That is the one I am using in the photo in the first post.

 

I did the same. Far more elegant solution and removes a board from the system which is good.

[+mytek]

28 minutes ago, scorpio_ny said:

I am actually using the PI hat made by C0pperdragon customized for his project. It is also on his Tindie site. It has a cable already attached for connecting to the RF modulator. That is the one I am using in the photo in the first post.

Yes I understood that about the GTIAdigitizer, but what I couldn't make out was where the transition was made from the RCA plug (or jack) into the RGBtoHDMI Pi Hat. And when I saw that the RGBtoHDMI board required what looked like a Dupont style header with at least 6 leads connected, that's when I started scratching my head wondering how that would be wired up to the RCA.

 

 

Then of course as I further posted, I discovered that there was also a special cable available for that purpose being sold on the same Tindie site as the GTIAdigitizer.

 

3 hours ago, dabone said:

For the lumacode dedicated board, he has a RCA male connector on a short cable.

Yep as I mentioned I already found that special cable and posted a link to it.

 

9 minutes ago, macsonny said:

I did the same. Far more elegant solution and removes a board from the system which is good.

How does it remove one board? Unless I'm mistaken you need the following...

1. COpperdragon GTIAdigitizer
2. RGBtoHDMI Pi Hat
3. Raspberry Pi

What board is being removed?

[+scorpio_ny]

 

1 hour ago, mytek said:

How does it remove one board? Unless I'm mistaken you need the following...

1. COpperdragon GTIAdigitizer
2. RGBtoHDMI Pi Hat
3. Raspberry Pi

What board is being removed?

Depending on the computer, you may need an additional board in combination with the RGBtoHDMI PI hat to get the required functionality. I believe that to use the GTIaDigitizer, you need an additional analog board to process the signal in addition to the RGBtoHDMI hat. So from your list, there would be a fourth item.

The RGBtoHDMI hat offered by C0pperdragon, has all the needed functionality on a single PI hat for his product.

 

This US reseller has a nice visual breakdown and explanations of the different components:

https://retrohackshack.com/product/rgbtohdmi/

 

Edited December 2, 2023 by scorpio_ny

[+mytek]

1 hour ago, scorpio_ny said:

Depending on the computer, you may need an additional board in combination with the RGBtoHDMI PI hat to get the required functionality. I believe that to use the GTIaDigitizer, you need an additional analog board to process the signal in addition to the RGBtoHDMI hat. So from your list, there would be a fourth item.

The RGBtoHDMI hat offered by C0pperdragon, has all the needed functionality on a single PI hat for his product.

Aww so it would seem that COpperdragon's version would certainly be the one to get

 

Thanks for clearing that up

[+scorpio_ny]

30 minutes ago, mytek said:

Aww so it would seem that COpperdragon's version would certainly be the one to get

 

Thanks for clearing that up

No problem! Keep in mind that the one from C0pperdragon will be more limited in utility since it is geared for his Lumacode project. The RGBtoHDMI with the other boards will work for a wider range of systems.

[+mytek]

17 minutes ago, scorpio_ny said:

No problem! Keep in mind that the one from C0pperdragon will be more limited in utility since it is geared for his Lumacode project. The RGBtoHDMI with the other boards will work for a wider range of systems.

Got it. But it's straight Atari 8-bit video all the way over here, so if it works for that I have no reason to get the other versions (no VBXE is in my future for now).

[Beeblebrox]

Could someone do me a favour and take a picture of all the pcb, cables, etc needed for the various setups?

 

I have gotten a little confused again as I thought I'd understood what was needed in terms of the gtiadigitizer pcb, cable and a generic rgb to hdmi box. I am really not familiar with Pi stuff. (Please excuse my ignorance, I know lots has been discussed, which unfortunately has confused me even more Heh Heh). Pictures of each setup would really help. 

 

I'd gone ahead and bought these the week before last:

 

 

 

 

 

 

Where I was going to hook the signal to the din5 and use a din5 to scart cable to the rgb scart to hdmi

 

Then after reading some more and getting a little bamboozled I bought these:

 

 

My thinking is these are the two different methods to use the initial gtiadigitizer? The latter just needs a mini hdmi to stand hdmi cable, to then go straight into the TV. 

 

If figure I'd get all of the options, but I must admit I am still not 100% sure if I have everything Pi related. 

 

Have I just gotten myself in knots here? There are two different ways of doing this right? A more comprehensive Pi based version, and simpler non Pi based version? 

 

 

 

Edited December 2, 2023 by Beeblebrox

[Imperious]

I am in Australia but have one of those NOS Atari 65XE models that Best Electronics were selling. It's an NTSC model.  I have already fitted the GTIA Digitizer to mine and after some issues with noise

it's all good now.

Anyone with an XE machine that gets digital noise in the form of pixels should replace L37 with a 470 ohm resistor. More on this over at the Github page. https://github.com/c0pperdragon/LumaCode/issues/2

 

I'll try to answer Beeblebrox's questions

 

You have to have a RGB2HDMI for decoding the Lumacode output from the Atari digitizer board. RGB2HDMI here https://github.com/hoglet67/RGBtoHDMI/wiki

I already had this setup with an Analog board https://github.com/hoglet67/RGBtoHDMI/wiki/Bill-of-Materials-(Analog-Board)

But You would also need a 12 bit board if using an Analog board as the Analog board plugs into it   https://github.com/hoglet67/RGBtoHDMI/wiki/Bill-of-Materials-(12-Bit-Board)

Then You would need to buy or make the 6 pin cable like this  https://www.tindie.com/products/c0pperdragon/lumacode-cable-for-rgbtohdmi/

What I did though was send the lumacode signal into pin 5 of the 5 pin Din. Pin 2 Gnd, Pin 3 Audio.

I made a cable that is 5 pin din to the 6 pin plug for the Analog board.

Alternatively and a lot simpler You can just buy Copperdragon's Lumacode decoder board that plugs into the PI Zero  https://www.tindie.com/products/c0pperdragon/rgbtohdmi-mono-lumacode/

You could use the RCA jack from the RF Modulator or mount a new one on the case.  Then all You need is a Mini HDMI to standard HDMI adaptor to the monitor as the PI Zero has

a Mini HDMI output jack.

 

Keep in mind You still need Audio out which You can get from the Din plug

Edited December 2, 2023 by Imperious

[Beeblebrox]

Thanks @Imperious Mannnnn I totally got this all wrong as I have mixed up the two options and totally overlooked extra PCB tech needed!

 

I thought there was only one copperdragon device (the GTIADigitizer), and then either the PiZero board method, or a generic converter box method, (like the linkfor Scart to HDMI). 

 

So essentially at present I've already got the following:

 

The GtiaDigitizer PCB by Copperdragon

Dual croc clip cable that comes with it

The 6pin cable (I bought it at the same time not 100% sure I needed it but it was cheap).

The PiZERO PCB (ordered and on it's way)

An RGB scart to HDMI converter box (Linkfor brand)

 

What I now understand I need to do is to totally dis-regard the RGB to HDMI converter Linkfor box and do one of the following:

 

Either:

 

1) Buy an RGB2HDMI  board and use it with the 6 pin cable I got from Copperdragon

 

 

 

OR

 

 

2) Buy Copperdragon's Lumacode decoder that plugs into the PI Zero and then buy a Mini HDMI to standard HDMI cable:

 

 

 

The slighly confusing thing is the Lumacode decoder PCB and the RGB2HDMI PCB boards look virtually identical.

 

But essentially both options 1 and 2 use Copperdragon's GTIADigitizer yeah?

 

I'll return the RGB scart to HDMI Linkfor converter box then as it sounds like it's totally redundant.

 

Sorry to be so slow here. I usually don't find these things too complicated but a lot of the Pi stuff hsa totally thrown me.

 

I've now just got to figure out which out of the 2 options is the cheapest.

 

Edit: re audo - yup, that bit I get

Edited December 2, 2023 by Beeblebrox

[+scorpio_ny]

2 hours ago, Beeblebrox said:

1) Buy an RGB2HDMI  board and use it with the 6 pin cable I got from Copper-dragon

Plus:

2. Analog Board

3. Mini HDMI to standard HDMI cable

 

2 hours ago, Beeblebrox said:

2) Buy Copperdragon's Lumacode decoder that plugs into the PI Zero and then buy a Mini HDMI to standard HDMI cable:

Yes

 

2 hours ago, Beeblebrox said:

The slighly confusing thing is the Lumacode decoder PCB and the RGB2HDMI PCB boards look virtually identical.

This makes sense since the Lumacode PI hat is a variant of RGB2HDMI Project. It was made to offer a simpler and lower cost option.

 

2 hours ago, Beeblebrox said:

But essentially both options 1 and 2 use Copperdragon's GTIADigitizer yeah?

Yes. The GTIADigitizer is needed to create the initial signal.

Edited December 2, 2023 by scorpio_ny

[Beeblebrox]

@scorpio_ny  thanks.

 

I took the need for an analogue board was only if, like @Imperious said there is already an analogue board set up in the mix. 

 

Thing is, adding all this up I've gotta say:

 

A) seems a hell of a lot more complicated that a Sophia 2, which is dead easy to install, especially if you have a pre socketed A8. The Sophia 2 pcb replaces the gtia completely and then there is the DVI connector pcb. Then all you need is a DVI to DVI cable for your DVI input on your display. (And of course either you cut the casing for the DVI port or use an external 3dprinted pbi port option, (latter is my preference)) . 

 

B) it is gonna cost me almost as much if not more than the Sophia 2 when I take into account everything. I've already spent quite a bit just getting the following (excluding the Linkfor rgb scart to hdmi converter which I now know was a mistake). (Sophia 2 cost me £90ish including shipping for last year's run and Simius has implied the next batch will come in cheaper). Also all of this extra pcb is external to the machine. Sophia 2 is all internal. 

 

So far I've spent money on:

 

The GtiaDigitizer PCB by Copperdragon

Dual croc clip cable that comes with it

The 6pin cable (I bought it at the same time not 100% sure I needed it but it was cheap).

The PiZERO PCB (ordered and on it's way)

 

The cost of the other required pcbs, whether I chose option 1 or 2, will really stack up,especially taking into account shipping (I am in the UK so for Copperdragon's pcb's he/she is in Australia I believe). 

 

Don't get me wrong, it's great to have an alternative, and of course I would have saved some shipping had I ordered some things at the same time from Copperdragon's Tindie site. It's just taking into account buying all these separate pcbs, cables, etc, and the shipping, it's mounting up. 

 

I want to try it to see it working as it's always great to check these digital video output upgrades out. But now it looks like, in addition to buying either the rgb2hdmi pcb, or the lumacode hdmi hat, I have to buy another analogue pcb as well. 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 2, 2023 by Beeblebrox

[+mytek]

@Beeblebrox I think from the get go it was determined if you only had one system that you wanted to get high quality video from, that a Sophia 2 was a better bet and likely cheaper (also a lot simpler setup).

 

Where the LumaCode system makes the most sense is when you have multiple computers that you wish to use with a common monitor. With such a setup you only need to do a one time purchase of the COpperdragon specific RGBtoHDMI Pi Hat, and a Pi, and the special LumaCode to RGBtoHDMI mating cable, and a mini to standard HDMI cable.  EDIT: and if you insist upon getting the audio over HDMI, then some kind of audio combiner device would be required (same as Sophia).

 

Then for each computer you wish to use with that 'monitor' setup, you would purchase and install the COpperdragon GTIdigitizer at only $39 a pop.

 

And possibly, although don't quote me on this, an RCA A/V switch box could be used between all the individual GTIAdigitized computers and that 'monitor' setup in order to easily switch between them without unplugging and plugging in cords.

 

With all that in mind, I wish that the tindie site would have spelled out these two options for purchase (this would have greatly diminished the confusion)...

 

Monitor Kit

1. COpperdragon specific RGBtoHDMI LumaCode Pi Hat with integrated RCA cable ($40)
2. Raspberry PI Zero ($15)
3. Mini to Standard HDMI cable for PI ($5)
4. MicroUSB to Standard USB-A cable to power PI ($5)

 

Computer Kit

1. COpperdragon GTIAdigitizer with break-out alligator cable ($39)

 

Total cost for both kits = $104 (not including tax and shipping)

 

EDIT: It appears that the LumaCode RCA connection cable is already integrated into the COpperdragon specific RGBtoHDMI LumaCode Pi Hat, so no separate cable purchase required (i updated my post to reflect this).

 

BTW, if anyone sees where I've made a mistake with this, please jump in and correct it

[+scorpio_ny]

28 minutes ago, Beeblebrox said:

@scorpio_ny  thanks.

 

 

A) seems a hell of a lot more complicated that a Sophia 2, which is dead easy to install, especially if you have a pre socketed A8. The Sophia 2 pcb replaces the gtia completely and then there is the DVI connector pcb. Then all you need is a DVI to DVI cable for your DVI input on your display. (And of course either you cut the casing for the DVI port or use an external 3dprinted pbi port option, (latter is my preference)) . 

To keep it simple, just buy the C0pperdragon Pi hat, Raspberry PI and the HDMI cable.

 

28 minutes ago, Beeblebrox said:

 

B) it is gonna cost me almost as much if not more than the Sophia 2 when I take into account everything. I've already spent quite a bit just getting the following (excluding the Linkfor rgb scart to hdmi converter which I now know was a mistake). (Sophia 2 cost me £90ish including shipping for last year's run and Simius has implied the next batch will come in cheaper). Also all of this extra pcb is external to the machine. Sophia 2 is all internal. 

 

So far I've spent money on:

 

The GtiaDigitizer PCB by Copperdragon

Dual croc clip cable that comes with it

The 6pin cable (I bought it at the same time not 100% sure I needed it but it was cheap).

The PiZERO PCB (ordered and on it's way)

 

The cost of the other required pcbs, whether I chose option 1 or 2, will really stack up,especially taking into account shipping (I am in the UK so for Copperdragon's pcb's he/she is in Australia I believe). 

I am sorry that you had spend extra money on items you did not need, but it is not the vendor’s fault. Now with the information on hand, you can decide what is the best option for you going forward. Just like any solution, one will have to weigh the pros and cons.

 

Now about the cost. Though the upfront cost may approach getting a Sophia 2 for one computer, it scales better if you need to equip more than one computer or game system. For myself, I have equipped three of my Atari’s and my two Commodore 128’s (which badly needed it).  I also have a Vic 20 (NTSC support coming) and he is offering an option for the Atari 2600 very soon.

Don’t get me wrong, I love the Sophia 2 ( I have one in my 800XL) and I will be looking to purchase a couple of more since it is full modern replacement for the GTIA chip.

 

Also, C0pperdragon is based in Austria, not Australia.

 

 

[Beeblebrox]

@mytek  true. I think I am used to upgrades which are for one system and straight forward and generally internal.

 

Uav, your own Ugv, Sophia 2, and SpectreAv are all fairlly straightforward internal upgrades. I own one Sophia 2, several SpectreAV and many ugv upgrades, (latter being the cheapest). 

 

I think I've just got very confused, especially with the Pi pcb based tech, and the various options. Never used any Pi kit before. 

[+mytek]

@scorpio_ny it looks like we both jumped in to answer @Beeblebrox's questions

 

12 minutes ago, scorpio_ny said:

I am sorry that you had spend extra money on items you did not need, but it is not the vendor’s fault.

Well I do think the vendor could have spelled it out more clearly with a simple block diagram showing how all the pieces linked together, and specifically what to buy

 

8 minutes ago, Beeblebrox said:

I think I am used to upgrades which are for one system and straight forward and generally internal.

 

Uav, your own Ugv, Sophia 2, and SpectreAv are all fairlly straightforward internal upgrades. I own one Sophia 2, several SpectreAV and many ugv upgrades, (latter being the cheapest). 

 

I think I've just got very confused, especially with the Pi pcb based tech, and the various options. Never used any Pi kit before. 

Yeah this multifaceted LumaCode system is not exactly easy to comprehend from the information that was provided. And I think a big part of that confusion was due to there being two RGBtoHDMI Pi Hats going by the same name. With one requiring a separate analog board and the other not.