donjn Posted September 21, 2023 Share Posted September 21, 2023 I’m not worried about the compatibility list. All of the popular games work and some of those that are not tested or fail are obscure games I don’t think I’ve ever played. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atariman72 Posted September 21, 2023 Share Posted September 21, 2023 Hello @Ben from Plaion Thank you for coming into this thread to answer questions. Will PAL and NTSC cartridges (for both 2600 and 7800) work okay in a UK purchased 2600+? Also, what about 7800 titles that need the two fire buttons, will a gamepad be released for those? Thanks again. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dionoid Posted September 21, 2023 Share Posted September 21, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, Ben from Plaion said: This is great news, @Ben from Plaion! This means that these cartridges will now work: 8K Parker Brothers cartridges (8K_E0) 8K Tigervision cartridges (_8K_3F) specific 8K Activision cartridges (_8K_FE) - e.g. Robot Tank, Space Shuttle, Decathlon Excellent! Looks like you're actually working towards "No cartridge left behind" (original cartridges from back in the day, that is). [edit] Pitfall II is probably remaining the exception here, as its DPC-chip contains sprite data in ROM which is not accessible through the VCS bus. Edited September 21, 2023 by Dionoid 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desiv Posted September 21, 2023 Share Posted September 21, 2023 Hey @Ben from Plaion, Welcome! I suppose the only thing I would mention is that I know there has been talk about Pitfall II being something that won't work because of the chip in the cart and the dumper not supporting it... Totally get that, and what I am going to mention would require an agreement from the copyright holder, so not holding my breath, but... I could see a situation where you possibly have Pitfall II cached already in the firmware (as I said, this would require approval) and when the cart is inserted, the software recognizes which cart it is and instead of trying to run it from the dumped cart, it runs it from the cached copy. That way, only legitimate cart owners could play it. Just throwing that out there... Other than that, my only question was about upgrades (especially thinking about some of the great new Homebrews out there), and you answered that one. If you also had composite video out too, I'd be a day one buyer, but I realize my CRT-loving self is a dying breed. Anyway, glad you are here. desiv 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPF997 Posted September 21, 2023 Share Posted September 21, 2023 14 minutes ago, Dionoid said: This is great news, @Ben from Plaion! This means that these cartridges will now work: 8K Parker Brothers cartridges (8K_E0) 8K Tigervision cartridges (_8K_3F) specific 8K Activision cartridges (_8K_FE) - e.g. Robot Tank, Space Shuttle, Decathlon Excellent! Looks like you're actually working towards "No cartridge left behind" (original cartridges from back in the day, that is). Atari bros we won let's goo !!! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donjn Posted September 21, 2023 Share Posted September 21, 2023 (edited) 18 minutes ago, desiv said: If you also had composite video out too, I'd be a day one buyer, but I realize my CRT-loving self is a dying breed. I can't think of one reason to have composite out. Old Atari’s do that already. I’ve been waiting 40 years for a real Atari that does proper HDMI out. Let us have our day in the sun LOL Edited September 21, 2023 by donjn 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desiv Posted September 21, 2023 Share Posted September 21, 2023 Just now, donjn said: I can't think of one reason to have composite out. Old Atari’s do that already. There's not a lot of reasons for it. A reason I could think of would be light gun games, which require a CRT (unless Atari adds Sinden lightgun support). The one reason for me would be to have a "new" system that supports carts. Yes, I have an old system to do that currently upstairs. Wouldn't mind another one for downstairs, and a new one would be nice. But as said, I'm a dying breed there. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben from Plaion Posted September 21, 2023 Share Posted September 21, 2023 41 minutes ago, atariman72 said: Hello @Ben from Plaion Thank you for coming into this thread to answer questions. Will PAL and NTSC cartridges (for both 2600 and 7800) work okay in a UK purchased 2600+? Also, what about 7800 titles that need the two fire buttons, will a gamepad be released for those? Thanks again. Yes. PAL and NTSC cartridges (for both 2600 and 7800) work. Will a CX78 Gamepad be released? Its a no brainer really...watch this space. 10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben from Plaion Posted September 21, 2023 Share Posted September 21, 2023 35 minutes ago, Dionoid said: This is great news, @Ben from Plaion! This means that these cartridges will now work: 8K Parker Brothers cartridges (8K_E0) 8K Tigervision cartridges (_8K_3F) specific 8K Activision cartridges (_8K_FE) - e.g. Robot Tank, Space Shuttle, Decathlon Excellent! Looks like you're actually working towards "No cartridge left behind" (original cartridges from back in the day, that is). [edit] Pitfall II is probably remaining the exception here, as its DPC-chip contains sprite data in ROM which is not accessible through the VCS bus. Yeah Pitfall II and I think there is a couple more obscure games with added chips on the cart that wont work. Having said that someone told me the other day if we read X on the cart and did this it might work. We'll look into it for sure. 5 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dionoid Posted September 21, 2023 Share Posted September 21, 2023 5 minutes ago, Ben from Plaion said: Will a CX78 Gamepad be released? Its a no brainer really...watch this space. Nice! 2-button support for 7800 games. You're sharing some excellent updates, @Ben from Plaion! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bitsized Posted September 21, 2023 Share Posted September 21, 2023 @Ben from Plaion I was wondering if the Video Keypad CX21 is compatible. I would like to Raid the Stars. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben from Plaion Posted September 21, 2023 Share Posted September 21, 2023 36 minutes ago, desiv said: Hey @Ben from Plaion, Welcome! I suppose the only thing I would mention is that I know there has been talk about Pitfall II being something that won't work because of the chip in the cart and the dumper not supporting it... Totally get that, and what I am going to mention would require an agreement from the copyright holder, so not holding my breath, but... I could see a situation where you possibly have Pitfall II cached already in the firmware (as I said, this would require approval) and when the cart is inserted, the software recognizes which cart it is and instead of trying to run it from the dumped cart, it runs it from the cached copy. That way, only legitimate cart owners could play it. Just throwing that out there... Other than that, my only question was about upgrades (especially thinking about some of the great new Homebrews out there), and you answered that one. If you also had composite video out too, I'd be a day one buyer, but I realize my CRT-loving self is a dying breed. Anyway, glad you are here. desiv Caching ROMs ..... I have an amusing story here, we finished up 2600 gameplay testing earlier on in the year and got a first build with 7800 game compatibility. So I headed over to the Embracer archive to test as many original 7800 carts as I could (they had about 30 games for 7800), 50/50 whether they worked - reasonable start. Weirdly though I came accross a couple of carts that played totally different games, something that I've never experienced before in my life. So I started digging, turns out the dev cached all 58 7800 games and was just checking the cartridges header file and then booting the game from a stored cache of ROMs! So the 7800 software development was scrapped immediately and had to be started afresh with a new developer, which delayed development for a few months but the new guy got there in the end, I've personally checked about 50 of the 58 7800 games released and they all work - the 8 not tested I just havent been able to get my hands on but we're confident they should work. 7 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben from Plaion Posted September 21, 2023 Share Posted September 21, 2023 22 minutes ago, Dionoid said: Nice! 2-button support for 7800 games. You're sharing some excellent updates, @Ben from Plaion! The factory have a nifty cartridge that they test every single manufactured unit with. You can see the output in the photo below. Its programmed to test all switches and levers on the unit aswell as Joystick directional movement and 2 fire button presses. For the paddles it checks the fire button and has a cool 0-130 unit scale to ensure the paddle turning is ok. 9 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bakasama Posted September 21, 2023 Share Posted September 21, 2023 I was wondering how the 2600+ was emulating 7800 games. Most 7800 emulators use 7800 ROMs with headers in them. I don’t think the 2600+ dumps the 7800 ROM and then adds the header data. Unless that how it actually works. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dionoid Posted September 21, 2023 Share Posted September 21, 2023 (edited) 3 hours ago, Ben from Plaion said: ...looking at the bottom of this list for the bank-switching schemes which are not (yet?) marked as "ok": _16K_E7 are the two 16K games from M Network (BurgerTime and Masters of the Universe) - both games were only released as NTSC cartridges, so being from The Netherlands (PAL), I personally don't mind _64K_F0 ...were there actually 64K carts originally released? I thought Fatal Run (32K) was the largest cartridge from back in the day? _6K_AR ...what does this refer to? in the comments I see some familiar bankswitching codes: 3E is used by Boulder Dash (homebrew) and DPC is for Pitfall II. Edited September 21, 2023 by Dionoid 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LatchKeyKid Posted September 21, 2023 Share Posted September 21, 2023 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Dionoid said: ...looking at the bottom of this list for the bank-switching schemes which are not (yet?) marked as "ok": _16K_E7 are the two 16K games from M Network (BurgerTime and Masters of the Universe) - both weren't released as PAL cartridge, so being from Europe, I personally don't mind _64K_F0 ...were there actually 64K carts originally released? I thought Fatal Run (32K) was the largest cartridge from back in the day? _6K_AR ...what does this refer to? in the comments I see some familiar bankswitching codes: 3E is used by Boulder Dash (homebrew) and DPC is for Pitfall II. According to a youtube video I watched a couple weeks back, there was apparently a quiz show game released that was 64k. I haven't played it nor rewatched it today and don't recall if there are any "gotcha" details that might exclude it though. Edited September 21, 2023 by LatchKeyKid video link 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Defender_2600 Posted September 21, 2023 Share Posted September 21, 2023 Hi @Ben from Plaion and @TrogdarRobusto, I have some questions that have been partially discussed in the forum and for which official attention and answers would be greatly appreciated. - Will the Atari 2600+ consoles sold in Europe be compatible with 2600 PAL50, PAL60 and NTSC cartridges? Or will European consoles only support 2600 PAL50 cartridges? - Will the Atari 2600+ consoles sold in Europe be compatible with 7800 PAL50 and NTSC cartridges? Or will European consoles only support 7800 PAL50 cartridges? - Will the new cartridges ("Berzerk Enhanced" and "Mr. Run and Jump") sold in Europe be PAL50, PAL60 or NTSC? Or will these new cartridges be region free, including both PAL50 + NTSC? - Which emulator is used for the 7800? The 7800 developer and beta tester community would prefer "a7800" emulator to be used. It was forked from Dan's original Mame a7800 driver, and is nearly cycle accurate, allows for mid-scanline graphical changes, has faithful pokey emulation, ym2151 emulation, etc. - The Atari 7800 has a pause button. With Atari 2600+, in 7800 mode, will it be possible to use the color/black-white switch as a pause button? See here and here for further information. - Will the Atari 2600+ support 720p output? Thinking not only of those who own small diagonal LCD TVs (or in any case of older construction) but also those who have some fantastic CRT TV capable of 720p input. - Will HDMI output produce a completely clear image? Since it looks like there will be no option to choose additional filters then I hope that no filters will be applied by default. - I'd just like to share a thought, in case there will be a hardware update at some point. The Atari 2600+ with its cartridges has been compared to a turntable with its vinyl records, and that's romantically nostalgic. But if the turntable is defined as the "Analog" source par excellence then at the same time it is understandable that some people want an Atari 2600+ equipped with a _native_ analog video output (in addition to the HDMI output already provided). I know there are many "HDMI to Composite Converters" but they will produce additional latency compared to a _native_ analog video output. Since Retro-Bit and Hyperkin currently produce several consoles equipped with both HDMI and Composite output, then I assume that there is still significant demand for analog video output in this market. Thank you very much for your answers and kind attention. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giles N Posted September 21, 2023 Share Posted September 21, 2023 @Ben from Plaion Hi, Are you in a position to tell us about what sort of 7800-emulation software you are using? I’d assume it can be updated as well as Stella (via the USBC)? Would this be a way to get the remainder of officially released 7800 titles to run, or would it also include harware-upgrades? (the types of cart-dumper used, has been mentioned as a possible source for why 7800 titles are marked as ‘untested’, even though we so far have left to speculate). Are 7800 homebrews tested yet? Thanks for taking the time to show up and answer questions directly from us here. 👍🏻 Greets, 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desiv Posted September 21, 2023 Share Posted September 21, 2023 1 minute ago, Defender_2600 said: The 7800 community would prefer "a7800" emulator to be used. I don't remember being asked??? I don't care which emulator is used personally, as long as it works well and you guys work with/credit the devs as appropriate... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Defender_2600 Posted September 21, 2023 Share Posted September 21, 2023 23 minutes ago, desiv said: I don't remember being asked??? I don't care which emulator is used personally, as long as it works well and you guys work with/credit the devs as appropriate... Well, I was referring to the 7800 developer and beta tester community, especially thinking about the Homebrew scene. Currently "a7800" is the most advanced emulator. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+karri Posted September 21, 2023 Share Posted September 21, 2023 I am a bit curious about the emulation of the Atari 7800 POKEY sound chips in Atari 2600+. If I write code that access the POKEY chip for the music would the Atari 2600+ play that sound even if there is no POKEY hardware on the cart? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrogdarRobusto Posted September 21, 2023 Share Posted September 21, 2023 51 minutes ago, Defender_2600 said: Hi @Ben from Plaion and @TrogdarRobusto, @Defender_2600 you have asked a lot of really good questions here. I have already shared them ack with the team and we will work on answers. It might take a bit, but we will address the whole PAL compatibility topic. We also have a lot of open questions about 7800 functionality that need to be addressed. As for the question "does HDMI output a clear image" .. in my experience yes indeed. I had an Atari 2600+ at Gamescom hooked up via HDMI to a monitor I purchased at a local electronics store in Cologne, and it looked amazing. Crisp graphics. 5 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrogdarRobusto Posted September 21, 2023 Share Posted September 21, 2023 58 minutes ago, Defender_2600 said: Hi @Ben from Plaion and @TrogdarRobusto, @Defender_2600 one more note, we are testing every cart we can find and noting down any issues we see related to color, controls, and more. As we identify things we can evaluate potential remedies. The work is ongoing. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Posted September 21, 2023 Share Posted September 21, 2023 5 minutes ago, TrogdarRobusto said: As for the question "does HDMI output a clear image" .. in my experience yes indeed. I had an Atari 2600+ at Gamescom hooked up via HDMI to a monitor I purchased at a local electronics store in Cologne, and it looked amazing. Crisp graphics. Can confirm, the HDMI output looks great on my television. ..Al 4 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donjn Posted September 21, 2023 Share Posted September 21, 2023 (edited) It would be nice if we could access the Stella menus for options or add scanlines to the HDMI output. I mean, why have color and black and white? Change that to scanlines off or on? Edited September 21, 2023 by donjn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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