The new Atari 2600+ w/HDMI out and 2600/7800 support

[ledzep]

8 hours ago, akator said:

The 5200/8-bit computers are separate systems with different chips and capabilities, they only share the CPU.  They are incompatible with the 2600 and 7800. 

 

The 7800 can run 2600 games because it was designed that way.  The 7800 has some of the same components as the 2600 and the hardware detects the difference between a 7800 and 2600 cart. 

 

 

To have a console similar to the AFB2 that could run 2600, 5200/8-bit, and 7800 someone with serious computer engineering skills would have to recreate both the 7800 logic and special chips (which includes 2600 logic) and 5200/8-bit logic and special chips, then create a "7800 and 5200 on a chip."

 

Creating that custom chip and producing it is far from impossible, but it's not easy either.

 

That's where FPGA comes in.  Only the logic has to be programmed, then loaded into the FPGA for whichever system is needed.  The caveat is FPGAs aren't cheap.

 

For all those who really want all Atari consoles and computer in one device, that already exists with the MiST and MiSTer.

 

Thanks, that's what I figured.  I guess I was too vague earlier, I wasn't implying that all three systems should be on one FPGA or one retro console, I was wondering why something like a Flashback 2 had never been produced for either the 7800 or the 5200.  Not necessarily from Atari or some big company trying to sell them in stores but more like someone in a garage deciding it "must be done" and figuring it out and then selling it (or the plans for buyers to make their own) on some website along with files to 3D print a new (presumably smaller for the 5200) console body (maybe sort of like the MiST?).  Seems like everything has seen that approach sometimes.  Except what I want because the Universe likes fucking with me, hahaaha.

 

I would want a separate 5200 retro console, anyway, because of the different 15-pin inputs and the fat carts.  So apparently what I was really wondering, and not articulating in any way, was how a 7800 style Flashback had never existed and could that, if it did happen, be combined with the 2600 version into one Super Flashback type of console with HDMI since some/much of the architecture is the same.

[+Kaboomer]

1. So what are the odds are Atari will announce additional carts for purchase before November? 

 

2. I'm also very curious what the other 6 games might be on the 10-in-1 cart? Same with the 4-in-1 Paddle games. Surely they wouldn't just leave them blank?!

 

Maybe I'm the only one thinking this out loud...

[0078265317]

https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/played-atari-2600-plus-10-155739478.html

[Zonie]

On 8/25/2023 at 2:12 PM, chad5200 said:

According to this link about the Flashback 2:

https://flashback2.com/pc-board-revisions/

 

You want a Rev. C.  You do NOT want the 2010 version which is referred to as Rev. X and "features a counterfeit PC board".

 

"Rev. C features a reduced-size PCB, which was designed to simplify installing a cartridge port (as described below). There are no changes to the unit’s functionality; the Revision C chip corrected some Hmove incompatibility issues, but still lacked several 65xx Illegal OpCodes and support for FE bankswitching."

 

Rev. C is the best version of the Flashback 2.  Oh to dream that someone would take this and run with it in this modern world.

 

Yes. Rev C is the best. I still have yet to mod mine, but probably never will as I don't really need to.

11 hours ago, ledzep said:

 

Yes, that would be the eventual hope.  I assume there is some form of this for the 7800?  And 5200?  I'm sure it's not easy to pull one of these off but aren't all three of those systems somewhat similar?  Meaning the research to get the 2600 hardware converted could at least partly be applied to the 7800, too?  No doubt I'm missing something about the guts of these things and what it takes to make an accurate FPGA based off original designs.  And I don't suppose Vendel's notes or schematics are available anywhere for the next person to take a shot at fixing the few missing bits that would make such an attempt totally accurate.  I mean, there seems to be a market for such a thing, haha.

This, sadly, will only be just a dream. Too bad we cannot get the four slot thing for atari like the Famicom/NES/SNES/Genesis

8 hours ago, BillDMatt said:

why is this constantly being repeated? smh

 

International Availability

United Kingdom - Amazon

Australia - EB Games

New Zealand - EB Games

Austria - Games Only

Germany - Amazon

Switzerland - Game Legends

Spain - GAME

Poland - Euro

Benelux - Bol

Slovenia - Igabiba

Italy - Amazon

Hence my irritation in my last post. People never read from the beginning. Ughh. Be happy it's coming, just be patient already.

3 hours ago, BIGHMW said:

When it comes to "OEM"-style sticks, I like the AtGames Flashback CX40-style sticks the best, unlike the others the shaft screws on and off for easier storage after gameplay and even though they break a bit during really aggressive play down the line, if you have a few in stock the shafts are easily replaceable. They also have more play, a bit more throw, and a slightly better response than the tried and true OG CX40s from the 80s

 

Of course NOTHING (and I mean NOTHING) beats a good third-party stick especially those from either RetroGameBoyz or the old Wico Command Control series or even the legendary Triga Command stick but when it comes to OEM and OEM-clone sticks nothing beats a Flashback stick.

Agreed. I have one of Curt's USB versions. Wish I had bought more.

[polyex]

Anyone sit close to a large HDMI screen these days? How long is the cord? I think this should have been wireless for these reasons.

[Dionoid]

On 8/24/2023 at 3:54 PM, Thomas Jentzsch said:

 

On 8/24/2023 at 2:35 PM, Dionoid said:

I think Atari made a deal with Hyperkin and the Atari 2600+ dumper code is an improved version of the Retron77’s dumper code.

Expand  

What makes you think so? All information we have clearly indicate that the dumper is no better than the R77's (EDIT: For now, but it seems it can be updated). The only thing they might have improved is the "cart inserted" detection.🤞

 

You’re right: my assumption that Atari worked with Hyperkin on the new Atari 2600+ indeed seems to be based on nothing. So if Atari (or Plaion?) is building their own cart-dumper, that actually makes me more hopeful, assuming that they can improve/update the dumper firmware.

Edited August 27, 2023 by Dionoid

[Jstick]

18 hours ago, BillDMatt said:

why is this constantly being repeated? smh

 

International Availability

United Kingdom - Amazon

Australia - EB Games

New Zealand - EB Games

Austria - Games Only

Germany - Amazon

Switzerland - Game Legends

Spain - GAME

Poland - Euro

Benelux - Bol

Slovenia - Igabiba

Italy - Amazon

Damn, nothing for Asia.

[+LS650]

4 hours ago, Jstick said:

Damn, nothing for Asia.

Try Amazon Germany.  I tried several but it was the only seller willing to ship to Canada.

[BillDMatt]

the widescreen option on this has me wondering, are there upscalers available they could have used that could actually take the original 4:3 aspect ratio and properly convert it to a 16:9 widescreen without stretching or distortion by applyingthe letterboxes?   

Edited August 27, 2023 by BillDMatt

[Jstick]

55 minutes ago, ls650 said:

Try Amazon Germany.  I tried several but it was the only seller willing to ship to Canada.

Thanks for the tip, it got me to check Amazon.com and apparently they will ship here for about $16, which isn't too bad.

Unfortunately it looks like the new joysticks and paddles aren't available on Amazon though.  It would be disappointing if those are Atari webstore exclusives, as they won't ship outside of the US.

Edited August 27, 2023 by Jstick

[Thomas Jentzsch]

20 minutes ago, BillDMatt said:

the widescreen option on this has me wondering, are there upscalers available they could have used that could actually take the original 4:3 aspect ratio and properly convert it to a 16:9 widescreen without stretching or distortion by applyingthe letterboxes?   

The emulator (Stella using SDL2) does the upscaling.

[BillDMatt]

16 minutes ago, Thomas Jentzsch said:

The emulator (Stella using SDL2) does the upscaling.

does it properly upscale as to not stretch or crop the image?   thanks

[hizzy]

If it can't play everything that an OG Atari plays, I don't see the appeal. I want to be excited but this is a half measure. 

[Thomas Jentzsch]

10 minutes ago, BillDMatt said:

does it properly upscale as to not stretch or crop the image?   thanks

It can do both. I suppose Atari defined the settings so that it keeps the 4:3 aspect ratio.

[82-T/A]

19 hours ago, 0078265317 said:

https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/played-atari-2600-plus-10-155739478.html

 

Ugh... figures... all of the comments are super negative. I guess I don't understand this, this has never been my personality... but for some reason, people seem to really feel the need to trash this. Other than giving a technical reason because blah blah (fake stuff), can someone tell me what drives someone to seek to poo poo on something when it doesn't affect them personally?

[m.o.terra kaesi]

4 minutes ago, 82-T/A said:

 

Ugh... figures... all of the comments are super negative. I guess I don't understand this, this has never been my personality... but for some reason, people seem to really feel the need to trash this. Other than giving a technical reason because blah blah (fake stuff), can someone tell me what drives someone to seek to poo poo on something when it doesn't affect them personally?

Of course it does affect us all here personally, that's why we are in this community, isn't it?!

Maybe it is just because we are hoping the new Atari could be like the old Apple: 

 

[+bent_pin]

20 minutes ago, 82-T/A said:

 

Ugh... figures... all of the comments are super negative. I guess I don't understand this, this has never been my personality... but for some reason, people seem to really feel the need to trash this. Other than giving a technical reason because blah blah (fake stuff), can someone tell me what drives someone to seek to poo poo on something when it doesn't affect them personally?

Best to ignore those who are bothersome, advice I should better heed myself. If it seems illogical it probably is. Besides, half of them will switch over and buy it anyway, just like I did.

[Laner]

23 hours ago, 82-T/A said:

 

Ugh... figures... all of the comments are super negative. I guess I don't understand this, this has never been my personality... but for some reason, people seem to really feel the need to trash this. Other than giving a technical reason because blah blah (fake stuff), can someone tell me what drives someone to seek to poo poo on something when it doesn't affect them personally?

The past several years of Chenais running the show left a bad taste in a lot of peoples mouths - crypto, hotels, the VCS, $1000 collector sets, etc. I don't think the 2600+ is nearly as egregious as the VCS, but I can understand the naysayer' sentiments to a degree. 

Additionally, there's a loud contingent of Nintendo fans who see anything prior to the NES as crap and worthy of ridicule, so I'm sure that factors in as well.

Edited August 28, 2023 by Laner

[BillDMatt]

23 hours ago, m.o.terra kaesi said:

Of course it does affect us all here personally, that's why we are in this community, isn't it?!

Maybe it is just because we are hoping the new Atari could be like the old Apple: 

 

calling a product junk before it's even released?   Ohhh KAAAYY

[82-T/A]

45 minutes ago, Laner said:

The past several years of Chenais running the show left a bad taste in a lot of peoples mouths - crypto, hotels, the VCS, $1000 collector sets, etc. I don't think the 2600+ is nearly as egregious as the VCS, but I can understand the naysayer' sentiments to a degree. 

Additionally, there's a loud contingent of Nintendo fans who see anything prior to the NES as crap and worthy of ridicule, so I'm sure that factors in as well.

 

Hahah... that's funny about the NES people. I loved the Nintendo too... there's these "Mark your generation" memes on Twitter, and they break it out into early, mid, or late generation. I'm the one that started with Atari, but I was in the middle of the Atari and Nintendo era.

 

The absolute BEST example of my childhood was the movie 8-Bit Christmas. LIke... so many parallels...

 

I grew up with the Atari 2600, but when I was in elementary school (around 4th or 5th grade), the NES came out, and I did whatever I could to buy one. I worked a bunch of odd jobs around the neighborhood and rode my bike to Toys R' Us to buy one, even though my parents were TOTALLY against me getting one. On the way home, it fell off my bike (action set) and landed in a puddle, but the box was still OK. That Christmas, my dad built a tree-house for me too... so many parallels to that movie, it's hilarious.

 

But yeah, Atari was my first... so there's so much enthusiasm there.

 

On the VCS... I love the VCS... I've bought dozens of games on the online marketplace, and actually bought two of them (VCS systems). 50% of it is literally because it's an Atari, the other 50% is because of the games. I don't have any kind of steam or internet connected gaming system either (other than my desktop) since I'm not really so much into modern POV / shooter games which seem to be most of the things that come out now. I don't have a Playstation (any version), and no Microsoft XBOX either (of any version)... so just wanted to defend the VCS there a bit. I was really happy with it... I think it almost didn't happen, but I'm glad it did.

 

But, I'm also the kind of person that likes the new Indiana Jones. A lot of people think it sucks... and that it's a horrible movie. To me, it's another Indiana Jones, so how can I be upset?

[+bent_pin]

3 hours ago, 82-T/A said:

But, I'm also the kind of person that likes the new Indiana Jones. A lot of people think it sucks... and that it's a horrible movie. To me, it's another Indiana Jones, so how can I be upset?

Absolutely, I loved the Crystal Skull. Karen Allen is still a beautiful lady and it was a rip-roaring good time.

[82-T/A]

2 hours ago, bent_pin said:

Absolutely, I loved the Crystal Skull. Karen Allen is still a beautiful lady and it was a rip-roaring good time.

 

There's an even newer one... just in case you didn't know. It came out like 2 months ago... already forgot the name... something compass or clock or whatever. But it was also really good. Yeah, I liked the Crystal Skull.

 

Funny thing, in the early 90s, the Lucas Arts game came out before the actual movie did... it came out MANY years before the movie did...

[+bent_pin]

8 minutes ago, 82-T/A said:

 

There's an even newer one... just in case you didn't know. It came out like 2 months ago... already forgot the name... something compass or clock or whatever. But it was also really good. Yeah, I liked the Crystal Skull.

 

Funny thing, in the early 90s, the Lucas Arts game came out before the actual movie did... it came out MANY years before the movie did...

I am, thank you. I don't go to theaters anymore. I'll see it when I can buy it cheap on prime video or when I can get it with a channel package.

[Dionoid]

On 8/22/2023 at 4:26 PM, Thomas Jentzsch said:

Since the cart port is effectively a ROM dumper, no carts including an ARM (Harmony, PlusCart, Champ Games...) chip will ever work. These carts cannot be dumped.

As the Atari 2600+ requires physical cart dumping and there’s no support for an SD-card (which IMO actually is a good decision), this pushes me, as homebrew developer, to focus on using pure 6507 assembly and supported bankswitching (f6, f8) for my next game(s). And also to support PAL 50Hz instead of PAL 60Hz.

To other homebrew developers: what are your thoughts on this?

[polyex]

On 8/27/2023 at 10:04 AM, 82-T/A said:

 

Ugh... figures... all of the comments are super negative. I guess I don't understand this, this has never been my personality... but for some reason, people seem to really feel the need to trash this. Other than giving a technical reason because blah blah (fake stuff), can someone tell me what drives someone to seek to poo poo on something when it doesn't affect them personally?

Here is a suggestion, perhaps list all the products that you like and plan on purchasing on a website. That way the internet can know ahead of time what they should not be critical of.