The new Atari 2600+ w/HDMI out and 2600/7800 support

[Rodney Hester]

2 hours ago, desiv said:

Oh!  In development for more than a year!!!

 

That's ancient!!!!  OMG!!!

I'm going to take it as read that you've never been involved in any sort of product development or bringing anything to market and thus stop right here.

[desiv]

21 minutes ago, Rodney Hester said:

I'm going to take it as read that you've never been involved in any sort of product development or bringing anything to market and thus stop right here.

And you would be very wrong...  🙂

But I think it is fine that we disagree.

I am cautiously optimistic.  You are not.  That is fine...  

Have a good one...

[Rodney Hester]

@desiv I don't find optimism a factor in product selection myself.  When a vendor creates a product but doesn't consider that the controller won't even allow play for the target system supported, that's a major requirements miss.  Perhaps you are more forgiving of this sort of thing given the *horrid* stewardship AtGames has shown in the past.  I too am hopeful the latest incarnation of Atari will do better, but that doesn't mean I'm going to be blind to serious product deficits.  My wallet doesn't know what hope is.  😃

Edited September 26, 2023 by Rodney Hester
Grammar fix

[desiv]

I wouldn't classify me as  being "blind" because we disagree...

I prefer to think we have different points of view...

 

Have a good one...

[BassGuitari]

14 hours ago, Rodney Hester said:

@BassGuitari That's a mighty strange bit of vendor-apologist reasoning, as was @desiv's argument that "this is really new" (no, no...this product has been in development for more than a year already and hardware is already shipping to sales outlets), but *shrugs*  I did indeed see Plaion's response, and that's a good thing if a bit late in the cycle.

 

With respect, your argument smacks of "the computer comes with a keyboard already...the absence of a mouse isn't a problem, you can always just use keyboard shortcuts for the few things you'd need a mouse for".  The 7800 functionality isn't a "bonus" feature, it's a clearly advertised component of the product.  The real issue is that the people designing and marketing this stuff *weren't alive* in all likelihood when the systems in question were introduced and frankly _don't know how they worked_ and have almost certainly never seen one in the flesh.  I could forgive that except, you know, #atariage and more than a few of us that actually know about the things they are selling imitations of that would have gladly helped with all this.

If you say so.

[Atari Superman]

On 9/25/2023 at 3:04 PM, BassGuitari said:

but nobody is mad that there are no new Driving Controllers or Keyboard Controllers or Light Guns

Speak for yourself  Although _mad_ is a strong word. I'm disappointed with the lack of full compatibility with their own catalog. I was going to buy this to retire my aging original hardware. But if I can't play all my old games, including Indy 500 and Star Raiders, then this won't solve my problem.

 

^^^ ATTENTION ATARI: USE CASE ^^^

 

It's baffling that a device would be designed for a very specific target market -- someone who (a) has cartridges, (b) is still playing them (c) in the living room and (d) doesn't care about homebrew compatibility, which, as far as I can tell, is only me -- and then have it not address the very specific needs of this market. Of course we need driving controllers. Of course we need a keypad. If we didn't need these, we'd already have a Flashback and a crappy joystick and wouldn't be buying a 2600+.

[+Living Room Arcade]

Re: other controllers

 

Although there were relatively few games made for the Atari 2600 that use paddles, those games are important to me.  And even though Indy 500 may be (as far as I know) the only game made that uses the driving controller, that one game is also important to me.  (I want to play Indy 500 and paddle games.  That's important to me.)  

 

So for a person like me, I find the 2600+ to be "interesting" and the Gamestation Pro to be "interesting" but for me both are worse than emulating on my PC where I could use a third party 9-pin to USB adaptor device and be able to play Atari 2600 games using ALL of the controllers (paddles, driving and more).  

Edited September 27, 2023 by Living Room Arcade

[oceanix42]

Though I think it's cool that this is a thing, the fact that it is an emulator under the hood, speaks to the seriousness, or lack of seriousness, that was taken in regard to an actual new and usable platform for console gaming. Not knowing the marketing strategy decisions made in the board rooms, but it seems like they started out trying to capitalize on the retro market and not actually listening to the retro gamers in regard to wants, needs and use cases. However, with the acquisition of AtariAge, maybe Atari is actually going to start paying attention to these fundamental concepts in consumer product development. I have my fingers crossed for better products in the near future   (the subcontext here is the homebrew market is the market you want to support...for they are the dreamers of dreams and they are the developers of worlds few others could conceive...they are the makers of the new age...get it Atari?)

Edited September 27, 2023 by oceanix42

[desiv]

16 minutes ago, Living Room Arcade said:

Although there were relatively few games made for the Atari 2600 that use paddles, those games are important to me.  And even though Indy 500 may be (as far as I know) the only game made that uses the driving controller, that one game is also important to me. 

Agreed, and it is possible/likely that existing controllers (paddles/driving) will work.

And they already have a new paddle controller you can buy, the CX30+.
Not sure they'd release a new driving controller, because as you mentioned, just the one game.  But I would think an original driving controller would work??? 

10 minutes ago, oceanix42 said:

Though I think it's cool that this is a thing, the fact that it is an emulator under the hood, speaks to the seriousness, or lack of seriousness, 

Well, I think it's more about complexity and cost...

Yeah, they could have done a more FPGA like solution, but I think then it wouldn't be an "impulse buy" product price wise.

 

It would be near impossible to design a product that will appeal to the more hardcore games who want a real "new 2600" and to keep the price down to it will be successful...

That said, the hardware of the Flashback 2 kind of did that, but that's been the unicorn in the market...

 

Not that it's not bad to shoot for or want that...  But I will just say that going with an emulator doesn't surprise me...

And honestly, if (and this is a HUGE if) they can address cart compatibility over time, that might not be the wrong choice...

 

It's funny as I tend to defend Atari with the product launch, however I am not currently planning on buying one myself...   

I do think this product could succeed and I want it to...  If it does, I can see some updates making it really decent.

That said, I like CRTs and multicarts (I have a CC2 for my 7800).  And I am notoriously cheap (yeah, I know I bought the CC2, but that was a weird time for me.  Glad I went crazy back then and bought it.. ) so I don't see myself buying, at least initially.

 

But that doesn't mean I won't end up with one.  I have several Flashbacks I got on pretty good discounts and I was gifted a TheC64Maxi, which I think is neat, but I never would have bought myself...  
So I want it to be long term successful, even if I don't buy it...  I might still end up with one..

[Dionoid]

26 minutes ago, oceanix42 said:

Not knowing the marketing strategy decisions made in the board rooms, but it seems like they started out trying to capitalize on the retro market and not actually listening to the retro gamers in regard to wants, needs and use cases.

I think retro gamers are only a small percentage of the target buyers, as these people already have an original 2600 connected to a CRT TV, or maybe soldered a composite mod to connect it to a more modern TV.

But there are many people (no hardcore retro gamers) that still have an old Atari 2600 with cartridges laying around in their attic, who would like to play their childhood cartridges on a HDMI TV without all the connection hassle.

 
From what I’ve heard, the preorders for the Atari 2600+ show that there’s a large audience for this device.

Edited September 27, 2023 by Dionoid

[Bakasama]

For me it’s the fact it plays a lot of 7800 games (at the moment) and hooks up to a HDMI tv is a selling point.

Edited September 27, 2023 by Bakasama

[oceanix42]

I see your points and understand them. I hope my cynicism is baseless...but, lol. Anyway, great to even has something like this to prat on about.

[+Living Room Arcade]

Also, I would like to see future versions of Stella and online consoles have online gaming.  We need to be able to play Atari with others online, see our scores entered into online high score clubs, and participate in online Atari game tournaments, etc.  Take playing Atari "to the next level."  

 

Also, I think we should just make our own Atari console.  I see people here are doing amazing things, like @john_q_atari who made his own 2600 PCB and @Al_Nafuur who is working on an emulator console project.  Can't we just make an Atari console of our own?  

 

Also, if necessary, we should just make our own controllers.  With availability of 3D printing, how hard could it be?  

[Thomas Jentzsch]

2 hours ago, Living Room Arcade said:

Also, I would like to see future versions of Stella and online consoles have online gaming.  We need to be able to play Atari with others online, see our scores entered into online high score clubs, and participate in online Atari game tournaments, etc.  Take playing Atari "to the next level." 

This would need a server running the emulation. And new Stella client software which communicates with it. I don't see this happen anytime soon.

[+Al_Nafuur]

11 hours ago, Living Room Arcade said:

Also, I would like to see future versions of Stella and online consoles have online gaming. 

Online gaming on the 2600 is already possible with PlusROM enabled devices like the PlusCart and emulators like Stella, Gopher2600 and Javatari.

 

 

11 hours ago, Living Room Arcade said:

We need to be able to play Atari with others online, see our scores entered into online high score clubs, and participate in online Atari game tournaments, etc.  Take playing Atari "to the next level."  

Do you mean something like the PlusROM High Score Club?

 

 

 

[+Living Room Arcade]

  

13 hours ago, Al_Nafuur said:

Online gaming on the 2600 is already possible with PlusROM enabled devices like the PlusCart and emulators like Stella, Gopher2600 and Javatari.

 

 

Do you mean something like the PlusROM High Score Club?

 

 

 

@Al_Nafuur  Thank you so much for sharing this info.  I have never heard of these things before.  I need to look into them.  

Edited September 29, 2023 by Living Room Arcade

[desiv]

Just had an interesting thought about a multicart type of use for the 2600+...

Well, it is a multicart in that I am wondering about the CC2. 

Now I am pretty much positive that it won't work as standard function, as I don't think I'll be able to use the menu from the CC2 on the 7800 to select a game.

It seems that is the type of functionality that won't work...

 

But, one thing I have never done with my CC2 is use the DEV cable that came with it.

IIRC, it's a 9 pin serial cable that can be used to download a ROM into the cart for game testing...

I wonder if using that would allow roms to be downloaded to the CC2 one at a time to use on the 2600+?

As I've never used that functionality on the CC2, I don't know whether it would be an option.  When you use it and upload a ROM, does the CC2 then just look like a regular cart?

I mean, I would assume that it would still only support the bank switching configs the 2600+ supports, but that's still most games.

Would that make it a one-shot programmable multicart?

 

Hmmm...

I don't even know where that cable is  (I do remember seeing it a year or two ago...)... 

And I assume there is software that might require XP or something???? (and of course a serial port)

[+bent_pin]

Apparently, you can buy these on aliexpress: New Atari 2600 Plus Gaming Console Will Support 'Pole Position' - AliExpress

[desiv]

59 minutes ago, bent_pin said:

Apparently, you can buy these on aliexpress: New Atari 2600 Plus Gaming Console Will Support 'Pole Position' - AliExpress

Wow, almost $170 with shipping...  

Nothing against AliExpress, I buy a fair amount of cheap electronics from them, but usually for less money than I can spend elsewhere.

[+bent_pin]

23 minutes ago, desiv said:

Wow, almost $170 with shipping...  

Nothing against AliExpress, I buy a fair amount of cheap electronics from them, but usually for less money than I can spend elsewhere.

I'm wondering if that seller is an authorized retailer of the 2600+

[desiv]

2 minutes ago, bent_pin said:

I'm wondering if they are a legit retailer.

Interesting question.

They are kind of a collection of sellers.  So when you buy from AliExpress, you aren't buying from them per se. 

In this case, you would be buying from "Shop1102085341 Store" who is a seller who sells thru AliExpress.

I've had decent luck in general, but mostly I buy lower cost electronic pieces.

 

I think in general they are legit.

That said, I wouldn't buy something from them personally unless it was inexpensive.

I bought a 239-n-1 NES cart for around $20 a couple of years ago.

It arrived and works as expected.

 

But not sure I'd vouch for them tho...

 

[+bent_pin]

1 hour ago, desiv said:

Interesting question.

They are kind of a collection of sellers.  So when you buy from AliExpress, you aren't buying from them per se. 

In this case, you would be buying from "Shop1102085341 Store" who is a seller who sells thru AliExpress.

I've had decent luck in general, but mostly I buy lower cost electronic pieces.

 

I think in general they are legit.

That said, I wouldn't buy something from them personally unless it was inexpensive.

I bought a 239-n-1 NES cart for around $20 a couple of years ago.

It arrived and works as expected.

 

But not sure I'd vouch for them tho...

 

I corrected my comment. I buy from Aliexpress. I'm just wondering if Atari authorized this seller and if they even have the units.

[Aloan]

I am all excited to the 2600 comeback! Finally (even though the way it did, not using the real chips, not a 100% ressurection). Just like the Atari 2600 has 7 elements that make up its games, I have 7 reasons to love it:
1- Nostalgia
2- Desire to keep the grand daddy of consoles alive (Atari 2600)
3- I honestly love the LEGO like blocky graphics beginning with the playfield ones which are the biggest! to me it looks like LEGO pieces that you build with
4- I love the 128 color palette they chose for the system!

5- love the simplistic iconic look of all the art assets on the screen... because they give space to your imagination a lot of times.

6- It is a lot easier to draw graphics for the system from a Dev perspective since you´re working with its popular 160x192 display res.

7- Easier to develop sound and music for since you only have 2 channels to worry about.

Extra: I don´t even have to use a programming language to make me a working Atari-esque game! (I don´t know how to code) I´m an audio visual artist, so I use the non coding Clickteam Fusion 2.5+ instead to make games.

[Aloan]

I am all excited to the 2600 comeback! Finally (even though the way it did, not using the real chips, not a 100% ressurection). Just like the Atari 2600 has 7 elements that make up its games, I have 7 reasons to love it:
1- Nostalgia
2- Desire to keep the grand daddy of consoles alive (Atari 2600)
3- I honestly love the LEGO like blocky graphics beginning with the playfield ones which are the biggest! to me it looks like LEGO pieces that you build with
4- I love the 128 color palette they chose for the system!

5- love the simplistic iconic look of all the art assets on the screen... because they give space to your imagination a lot of times.

6- It is a lot easier to draw graphics for the system from a Dev perspective since you´re working with its popular 160x192 display res.

7- Easier to develop sound and music for since you only have 2 channels to worry about.

Extra: I don´t even have to use a programming language to make me a working Atari-esque game! (I don´t know how to code) I´m an audio visual artist, so I use the non coding Clickteam Fusion 2.5+ instead to make games.

[Aloan]

I am all excited to the 2600 comeback! Finally (even though the way it did, not using the real chips, not a 100% ressurection). Just like the Atari 2600 has 7 elements that make up its games, I have 7 reasons to love it:
1- Nostalgia
2- Desire to keep the grand daddy of consoles alive (Atari 2600)
3- I honestly love the LEGO like blocky graphics beginning with the playfield ones which are the biggest! to me it looks like LEGO pieces that you build with
4- I love the 128 color palette they chose for the system!

5- love the simplistic iconic look of all the art assets on the screen... because they give space to your imagination a lot of times.

6- It is a lot easier to draw graphics for the system from a Dev perspective since you´re working with its popular 160x192 display res.

7- Easier to develop sound and music for since you only have 2 channels to worry about.

Extra: I don´t even have to use a programming language to make me a working Atari-esque game! (I don´t know how to code) I´m an audio visual artist, so I use the non coding Clickteam Fusion 2.5+ instead to make games.