AtariAge + Atari Q&A

[Lord Mushroom]

On 9/30/2023 at 4:05 AM, PowerDubs said:

The stock was steady at about .35-40 for a long time until Wade dumped it to attempt his takeover buyout- gotta look at the business actions behind the price.

 

...and even if it 'only' hits .35 again in 2-3 years- which should be easy- that's over double someones investment now- which they won't see anywhere else.

 

That's already a no brainer at this buy in... then add another dime or 2 on top of that...  yeeeaah.   Not unreasonable.

$0.35 would value the company at $150 million, and to justify that valuation, they would need to make about $10 million per year. They are miles away from that. Recently they have been losing enormous amounts of money. The losses are expected to drop dramatically in the future, though.

 

Reducing losses is easy, it is just a matter of dropping unprofitable stuff. Making money, on the other hand, is difficult. And it is not going to be easy to make serious amounts of money making cheap games very few people are interested in.

 

Maybe they will succeed, and the Atari stock will soar to $0.35 and beyond. But there is a very real threat that the stock is headed for single digit cents. Even bankruptcy is a real threat. It is definately not a no brainer to buy this stock at the current $0.14 valuation.

[PowerDubs]

4 minutes ago, Lord Mushroom said:

$0.35 would value the company at $150 million, and to justify that valuation, they would need to make about $10 million per year. They are miles away from that. Recently they have been losing enormous amounts of money. The losses are expected to drop dramatically in the future, though.

 

They haven't really been loosing money...they've been spending.... to pay off debt, to buy ip / companies / to build new projects / to build new games / products...

 

As example- "In June 2023, Atari converted the entirety of the
convertible loan amount into Antstream ordinary shares. Atari now holds around 10% of Anstream share capital"

 

.35 will be eaasy...

[+cvga]

2 hours ago, buescherking said:

Just an FYI it looks like Atari is asking for a reverse split on there stocks, as a shareholder I'm not real happy about that, but I don't have a lot of stocks anyway. Maybe they want to get their shares valued higher so they can be trade above the dollar threshhold? I really don't know much about this stuff, but that's what I read.

 

1 hour ago, buescherking said:

I would tell him not to tear up that hat just yet. In my opinion if they can raise the stock price up enough to be traded on NASDAQ that would be a good thing, it may be a good time to buy possibly, again I don't really know, no idea if this will or won't happen. Up to all the shareholders.

(I added the bold for emphasis)

 

I'm confused by the combination of your two posts. Why would a reverse split upset you? You would have the same proportionate ownership. 

[Lord Mushroom]

34 minutes ago, PowerDubs said:

They haven't really been loosing money...they've been spending.... to pay off debt, to buy ip / companies / to build new projects / to build new games / products...

Most of the losses were write-offs. It is easy to say that losses are temporary, and profits are around the corner, but delivering that profit is more difficult.

 

Total revenue was only $10 million last year, down a third from the previous year. Games were up 28% to $7.3 million, though. 

 

1 hour ago, PowerDubs said:

As example- "In June 2023, Atari converted the entirety of the
convertible loan amount into Antstream ordinary shares. Atari now holds around 10% of Anstream share capital"

 

.35 will be eaasy...

I tried to google for financial information about Antstream Arcade, but it was very difficult to find anything. I found two different estimates for their annual revenue: $15.7 million and $5.9 million. Again, that is revenue, not profit. If Atari has 10% of that, it is not impressive.

 

Sure, Antstream is a pretty young company, but with all the money that has been poured into it, it should have had higher revenue than that by now.

 

You are optimistic about the Atari stock, and that is fine. But since you recommended so strongly that others buy it, I felt the need to showcase the potential downside of such an investment.

[SIO2]

4 minutes ago, cvga said:

 

(I added the bold for emphasis)

 

I'm confused by the combination of your two posts. Why would a reverse split upset you? You would have the same proportionate ownership. 

This question was not for me but perhaps the shareholder cares more about the perception of owning more shares than the actual proportion that is of the company or what monetary value that has.  Kind of like someone reducing my 1,000,000 point high score on centipede to 300,000 points.  Doesn't sound as impressive.

 

[Arno1978]

4 hours ago, x=usr(1536) said:

I get that Atari has IP with some value in the retro marketspace, but without new games they're heading straight for the tunnel painted on the canyon wall.  Sure, base some new titles off of historical IP; there's no problem with that.  But without non-retro games, the portfolio doesn't really have anything in it with broad appeal.

This is an absolute fact. It's an extremely difficult market now. While the bonus is that Atari is still a recognized name - the minute you mention Atari to anyone - the thought is "retro gaming". They have a strength in retro gaming. Unlike companies like Nintendo for instance, otherwise, Atari doesn't have a popular household presence. Nintendo kept going with their popular IPs. People still enjoy the latest Mario incarnations. Like links on a chain from past to present, they timed releases and hardware right for the current market. That's why they're still such a strong contender with under powered hardware. Other consoles have always blazed past Nintendo consoles, but Nintendo had enough successful IPs - they had enough to market to a broad audience, and their momentum hasn't stopped. Atari has been like a blind runner through the past 40 years - stumbling and running dead on into hurdles and falling flat. Now their momentum is but crawling along. Just like a train, it take a large amount of energy to start moving and gain momentum. So for a company like Atari - as I've said before, it's easy to ride on the coattails of the past and milk history for the last possible drops. There's nothing wrong in keeping the memories alive, but unless they have enough old IPs that can be modernized and still pay homage to their roots, then, exactly as @x=usr(1536) stated, they're going to have to have create new IPs and break into that modern market. Because of the extreme saturation of games out there on several platforms and market places, that's gonna be tough.

 

I did share an idea with Atari that is a way to resurrect CRT functionality - to replace dying CRT hardware, but that's still a niche market. Perhaps a very niche market. It could be somewhat profitable, but the profits would be slow and long term.

 

If one could come up with something at the right time that was revolutionary - like Minecraft was in 2009, that could be a really good jump start. Personally, I've been wanting to see a multi-user space sandbox that is as easy to play as MC, but one big giant universe of unique planets, space stations and what not. (No Man's Sky is close, but still off.) Then I'd build a secret base in a giant asteroid in some obscure asteroid belt, fill it with Tie Fighters and an old 80s arcade, and blast Led Zeppelin, CCR, and Stepenwolf all day. 😁 (Idea heavily inspired by Watts's base at the end of the book Ready Player One in the OASIS.)

Edited October 1, 2023 by Arno1978

[SIO2]

Nintendo has characters.  If you see Mario you instantly know it is Nintendo.  Does Atari have a mascot character?  Nothing comes to mind.  I think the mascot character is an important concept.

[+Defender_2600]

14 minutes ago, SIO2 said:

Nintendo has characters.  If you see Mario you instantly know it is Nintendo.  Does Atari have a mascot character?  Nothing comes to mind.  I think the mascot character is an important concept.

 

Over the years, many people have identified Bentley Bear as Atari's character mascot.

 

 

[roots.genoa]

6 minutes ago, Defender_2600 said:

Over the years, many people have identified Bentley Bear as Atari's character mascot.

Which just shows how far from Nintendo they are. 😉

 

Frankly, I'm no business expert, but I think Atari should quit the stock market (if it's possible, of course). I was actually under the impression Wade Rosen tried to buy every share to do so, but maybe I misunderstood. It's quite obvious they went public at a time that was quite different, but now Atari is just a small publisher like Team17, except with a more famous name.

Edited October 1, 2023 by roots.genoa

[Lord Mushroom]

14 minutes ago, roots.genoa said:

I think Atari should quit the stock market (if it's possible, of course). I was actually under the impression Wade Rosen tried to buy every share to do so, but maybe I misunderstood.

Wade offered to buy shares at a high price from anyone who would want to sell to him. But if he didn´t end up with at least 50% of the total shares in Atari after the purchase, the deal would be off (due to some French rule, I think). He said he would neither go private nor force the remaining shareholders to sell to him if the purchase was successful. He didn´t get over 50%, so the deal was off.

[desiv]

43 minutes ago, roots.genoa said:

Which just shows how far from Nintendo they are. 😉

Oh good.  No more stock talk...  Just not something I am interested in.  But Atari and characters...  
Yeah, Atari's games were more about ships and cars and other objects.  Bentley is one of the few...

Quote

 Frankly, I'm no business expert, but I think Atari should quit the stock market

<sigh> 

[+cvga]

1 hour ago, Defender_2600 said:

 

Over the years, many people have identified Bentley Bear as Atari's character mascot.

 

 

It certainly isn't Bentley Bear. The number of people that could identify Bentley Bear let alone associate him with Atari outside of our niche market would be close to zero. I'd say Adventure and its dragons would be the closest thing that Atari has that would be recognizable to a larger market and that's primarily thanks to "Ready Player One".

 

[PowerDubs]

3 hours ago, cvga said:

 

(I added the bold for emphasis)

 

I'm confused by the combination of your two posts. Why would a reverse split upset you? You would have the same proportionate ownership. 

 

 

One of the questions we just got to vote on was reverse split (NO!!)

 

Another 2 questions were a stock buy back & burn.  (YES!!!)

 

[PowerDubs]

4 hours ago, Lord Mushroom said:

I tried to google for financial information about Antstream Arcade, but it was very difficult to find anything.

 

Sure, Antstream is a pretty young company, but with all the money that has been poured into it, it should have had higher revenue than that by now.

 

"by now'....they just recently leased on Xbox and Samsung game hub- they are growing.

 

https://www.engadget.com/cloud-gaming-platform-antstream-arcade-brings-over-1000-retro-games-to-xbox-070057648.html

 

https://news.samsung.com/us/samsung-gaming-hub-portfolio-expands-to-nearly-3000-games-with-launch-of-antstream-arcade-and-blacknut/

[PowerDubs]

1 hour ago, SIO2 said:

Nintendo has characters.  If you see Mario you instantly know it is Nintendo.  Does Atari have a mascot character?  Nothing comes to mind.  I think the mascot character is an important concept.

 

 

I agree- and unfortunately no.  That doesn't mean they always won't...  Atari just needs to buy back what people 'think' was Atari.

[JPF997]

Just now, PowerDubs said:

 

 

I agree- and unfortunately no.  That doesn't mean they always won't...  Atari just needs to buy back what people 'think' was Atari.

It's probably a better idea for them to make new ip's instead of overpaying for ip's people thought were related to Atari. To me Mr run and jump is a great new mascot, kind of like Mr game and watch was a great first mascot for Nintendo.

[PowerDubs]

1 hour ago, Lord Mushroom said:

Wade offered to buy shares at a high price from anyone who would want to sell to him. But if he didn´t end up with at least 50% of the total shares in Atari after the purchase, the deal would be off (due to some French rule, I think). He said he would neither go private nor force the remaining shareholders to sell to him if the purchase was successful. He didn´t get over 50%, so the deal was off.

 

Wade offered a laughably low price per share...and that was the over whelming opinion of all the shareholders. 

 

The only reason .19 was 'high' at that moment was (to you) is that he purposely drove the price down to make it appear so to those that weren't paying attention.

 

We all held tight...know it's worth more...most paid a lot more... so we wait.

[PowerDubs]

1 minute ago, JPF997 said:

It's probably a better idea for them to make new ip's instead of overpaying for ip's people thought were related to Atari. To me Mr run and jump is a great new mascot, kind of like Mr game and watch was a great first mascot for Nintendo.

New stuff would need to create a new market / memory.

 

Old stuff (either on Atari / or Atari arcade) is already known & remembered.

 

Run & Jump was cool...but needs a name.  Like Pitfall Harry.

[desiv]

38 minutes ago, cvga said:

 

It certainly isn't Bentley Bear. The number of people that could identify Bentley Bear let alone associate him with Atari outside of our niche market would be close to zero. I'd say Adventure and its dragons would be the closest thing that Atari has that would be recognizable to a larger market and that's primarily thanks to "Ready Player One".

 

Not sure I can go with the dragons from adventure.  You don't play as them...

Bentley is up there, as there aren't many options, especially with names...

 

I suppose you could use one of the Gauntlet characters.  Thor, Merlin, Thyra, or Questor... 

They are fairly recognizable...  (Obviously, Thor and Merlin might be problematic, as those names are pretty well known for other things..)

 

I've seen Pitfall Harry mentioned, and he'd be great except he is a 3rd party character.  He's an Activision mascot...
Look what happened to Gex, the mascot for the 3DO...

Edited October 1, 2023 by desiv

[+Defender_2600]

1 hour ago, cvga said:

 

It certainly isn't Bentley Bear. The number of people that could identify Bentley Bear let alone associate him with Atari outside of our niche market would be close to zero. I'd say Adventure and its dragons would be the closest thing that Atari has that would be recognizable to a larger market and that's primarily thanks to "Ready Player One".

 

 

Since Mario was named (and with Sonic in mind too), with "mascot" I meant something that is a living animal and/or can be made to have humanlike characteristics. In any case, I don't think that today a castle, a "square", or a dragon (which does not represent the hero but the enemy) can work well as a mascot.

 

 

[famicommander]

The main problem with picking an Atari mascot is most of Atari's iconic games don't actually feature a character. Asteroids, Pong, Breakout, Missile Command, Tempest, etc.

 

I would say that the closest thing to a character I associate with Atari is Yar from Yars' Revenge.

Edited October 1, 2023 by famicommander

[Matt_B]

Yeah, I'd think that if Atari want a new mascot they're going to have to have a hit game with an identifiable character that they actually own, rather than through a licensing agreement.

 

Bentley Bear only holds the position by default because he's the last time that happened.

[Jake67]

For me, the Atari mascot is a square as I bonded with that square while controlling it in Adventure and Surround. I shot square bullets in Outlaw and Combat, and fired a square into bricks in Breakout.

 

But I get that a square is potentially too boring to attract a new generation of gamers used to something flashier.

 

So I suggest rounding one corner of the square... two if Atari is feeling brave and wants to be edgy.

[Rodney Hester]

Not sure I see the need for a mascot at all.  The Fuji logo has more marketing power than anything else Atari has ever done in terms of symbology.

[Arno1978]

One of my top favorite 2600 games is Adventure. The square avatar I guess could be considered a knight. Many people will recognize the little square guy if he's pictured with Yorgle, Grundle and Rhindle or at least one of the 3. A knight would be a great mascot for Atari, since 70s/80s were a great time for fantasy adventure games, and because Atari started in that era. The only thing is, I don't think any current character that Atari has could be recognized as a mascot. I never played Crystal Castles, so I didn't recognize Bentley Bear. Nowadays, people don't know which characters Atari owns and doesn't own. For a good while, even I associated PacMan and Frogger with Atari. PacMan is a very recognizable character and could be a mascot, but he's not Atari, despite there was an Atari licensed version of the game.