Do you prefer the recharged games or the original version's ?

[Wildstar]

43 minutes ago, Zoyous said:

There's one other aspect to the difficulty increase... it should have points where it actually gets a little easier briefly along the way. So if you visualize the increasing difficulty as a line graph going upward, it has kind of a sawtooth profile along the way. That's actually something Eugene Jarvis has said about difficulty, although I am not good enough at Defender and Robotron to figure out if he actually implemented that idea in those games or just figured that out in later years. 😅

 

OT, I currently prefer the Recharged games that I've played. Aesthetically they are kind of the fulfillment of the dream that was represented by the illustration art that decorated and promoted those games back in the day. Now that games can look like pretty much anything, I really enjoy seeing retro design mixed with lighting and effects that never could have been possible previously. But having said that, I do still go back and play the original games as well because they're classics in their own right. It's kind of like enjoying current music that's strongly influenced by old styles, and then also enjoying the original raw stripped down blues that inspired the current artists.

I agree. Moments of relief for the player. Part of the whole playability factor for sure. 

[MrBeefy]

1 hour ago, Razzie.P said:

Get that kid a step stool.

 

 

I can remember being young/small enough to need to stand on something.  Usually chair or milk crate to play arcade game.  Xevious specially comes to mind the most vividly.

 

Now I'm 6'4" and have the opposite problem.  Have to stoop over and it hurts the ol' back after a bit.

 

 

 

Iirc he was kneeling on a chair! 😅

 

Same as in this one.

 

[+GoldLeader]

 

Ya know,

 

To be on topic (for a change,  heh),  The more I think about it,  the more I am OK with the Recharged series...At least they avoided the stupid (business) mistakes of Nutari past by not calling them Asteroids, Black Widow, Missile Command, etc.;  You know,  using the Exact Same Name, (Also what Hollywood does when they come out with an unnecessary remake and it takes a few years for the pointless one to go away),  like they did with the VCS,  which was like a middle finger to the community when they suggested to call it something else (No, we weren't serious when calling it a "TacoBox",  but fresh off the Coleco Chameleon and seeing mistake after mistake made,  we weren't sure it would actually release).

 

Anyway,  there's a new way to play (versions of) Atari classics.  So be it.  Even as I would likely never Prefer them to the originals,  it doesn't mean there's no fun to be had.

 

As for the Originals, ...Now in an ideal world,  they are Best played in an arcade (in the 80's,  with some Def Leppard in the background,  so fire up the DeLorean) and with Arcade controls,  but (personally) I am fine with checking them out on a home version,  if we're talking a system of PS1 or greater caliber.  I was blown away when the Digital Eclipse stuff first appeared and I considered it to be the first time we were really playing the Arcade versions at home!  (And I own an actual Asteroids cabinet)...Sure it would be cool if younger peeps could check them out at an arcade or a gaming convention somewhere,  but home versions are fine for figuring out which version you prefer...

[MrBeefy]

4 hours ago, GoldLeader said:

 

Ya know,

 

To be on topic (for a change,  heh),  The more I think about it,  the more I am OK with the Recharged series...At least they avoided the stupid (business) mistakes of Nutari past by not calling them Asteroids, Black Widow, Missile Command, etc.;  You know,  using the Exact Same Name, (Also what Hollywood does when they come out with an unnecessary remake and it takes a few years for the pointless one to go away),  like they did with the VCS,  which was like a middle finger to the community when they suggested to call it something else (No, we weren't serious when calling it a "TacoBox",  but fresh off the Coleco Chameleon and seeing mistake after mistake made,  we weren't sure it would actually release).

 

Anyway,  there's a new way to play (versions of) Atari classics.  So be it.  Even as I would likely never Prefer them to the originals,  it doesn't mean there's no fun to be had.

 

As for the Originals, ...Now in an ideal world,  they are Best played in an arcade (in the 80's,  with some Def Leppard in the background,  so fire up the DeLorean) and with Arcade controls,  but (personally) I am fine with checking them out on a home version,  if we're talking a system of PS1 or greater caliber.  I was blown away when the Digital Eclipse stuff first appeared and I considered it to be the first time we were really playing the Arcade versions at home!  (And I own an actual Asteroids cabinet)...Sure it would be cool if younger peeps could check them out at an arcade or a gaming convention somewhere,  but home versions are fine for figuring out which version you prefer...

I'm okay with the Recharged series despite not being interested enough to buy any. I liked Geometry Wars on Wii and feel like these are the same thing.

 

I'm more interested in Lunar Lander Beyond. I'm hoping they try to exert some creativity and evolve their IPs some.

[ledzep]

15 hours ago, x=usr(1536) said:

I've owned three Missile Command machines: two uprights and a cocktail.  The cocktail ended up being the short-termer of the lot, because playing the game with the 3" trackball just felt wrong.  Without the heft of the larger ball, it ended up feeling a lot like Centipede - a good game in its own right, but not how I wanted Missile Command to play.

 

Lucky bastard.  What, no environmental?

 

 

You slacking off?  Hahaaha, only like a hundred made, that thing is huge.  Look at that, no water cannons on that side art.

 

Ya, I wouldn't expect people playing a home version of Missile Command to commit to a giant trak-ball but I would say, if they ever want to claim that they know what playing the real version of Missile Command is like, it means at minimum that even at home they were using some form of a trak-ball controller with 3 buttons for the ABM bases.  Anything short of that is like driving a Ferrari with an automatic transmission or a 6-cylinder Camaro.

 

15 hours ago, Zoyous said:

OT, I currently prefer the Recharged games that I've played. Aesthetically they are kind of the fulfillment of the dream that was represented by the illustration art that decorated and promoted those games back in the day. Now that games can look like pretty much anything, I really enjoy seeing retro design mixed with lighting and effects that never could have been possible previously. But having said that, I do still go back and play the original games as well because they're classics in their own right. It's kind of like enjoying current music that's strongly influenced by old styles, and then also enjoying the original raw stripped down blues that inspired the current artists.

 

Oh ya, some of that home console box art (and arcade side art) was inspired by drugs or something, what the fuck game are you looking at, man, it's a little square moving around a bunch of rectangles!!  But obviously the art was inspired by the simple games, not the other way around, I'm sure the art came last.  It's funny, back when those games were new I never expected the games to match the artwork, I always knew that was just wild imagination to get me to play the games.

 

Hahaha, I was going to compare arcade/recharged games to classic/new music but I figured that would generate far too many tangents (I loves my music).  But there is a big difference from seeing a classic '70s/'80s rock band live back then vs. now when they're old, half the original members are gone, and they've since put out many albums of crap that don't hold a candle to their first 3-5 albums heyday (to say nothing of then comparing to new bands' cover versions of those songs).  Probably true with most things from that far back.

 

The difference with video games is that they're static, it's possible to physically still get the authentic experience of the arcade version of whatever game the recharged version is derived from to get an accurate comparison.  Whether it's an actual arcade cabinet (ideal) or at least a code-accurate emulation with the right control scheme (good enough).  You don't have to rely on the memories of old gamers, you can try them out for yourself, get that original standard set in your head, now you can compare to whatever new derivatives get released.  No need to substitute the wrong arcade version (like the 7800 or Colecovision or whatever) when MAME exists along with these Atari (and Namco) collections on Playstations and XBoxes.  But lose the fucking gamepad!

[zzip]

On 9/30/2023 at 4:37 AM, ledzep said:

I'm just surprised that these modern consoles offer the arcade classics but not the controllers to go with them.  What, they hate making more money?  Seems short-sighted.  You know enough gamers would buy a real trak-ball controller or a spinner (both of which would probably still have an analog stick and many buttons, too, to make them a bit more useful for more games).  I know I would.  Back in the day lots of companies were making controllers for the 2600, some really oddball looking ones, too, why not now?

You can buy all sorts of arcade controllers these days with arcade style joysticks and buttons, but trackballs and spinners seem to be a rarity.    I wonder if these modern arcade releases are even programmed to work with a trackball?  Or would they be limited to using a track ball in joystick emulations mode, like the old Atari home trackballs had.   It's not the same because then the speed you move the trackball doesn't have an effect.

 

On 9/30/2023 at 4:37 AM, ledzep said:

Yes!  I would love for Atari to go through their pile of unreleased/rejected games from back in the day and get someone to complete them.  You know there must have been lots of cool ideas that got passed over for whatever reasons, primarily that the game wouldn't make enough money in the arcades.  But this isn't the arcade era anymore, maybe those ideas would fit better with home consoles?  I mean, some bands put out remastered CDs of old albums with extra tracks, Japanese-only tracks, single b-sides, demos, why can't Atari do the same?

They have started to do this.   They put the unreleased Akka Arrh arcade game on Atari 50, and released a modern stand-alone version by Jeff Minter.

 

On 9/30/2023 at 4:56 AM, ledzep said:

Ya, that's why I was saying that this reimagined version is "not the original" anymore.  The game is the same (clear the dark haunted house, assemble the urn) but the perspective is very different and the graphics far better.  Obviously the top-down perspective is more true to the original.  But these reimagined games seem to be allowed to take more liberties with the originals?  Maybe depends on the game.

I guess the question is if you want to modernize old games, is it better to stay true to the original mechanics or stay true to the theme?  Look at what Nintendo has done with Mario.   If all they did was remake Donkey Kong every few years with slightly update graphics, Mario would barely be a thing,  instead he shows up in various games.

 

Haunted House is a fairly simple game that is limited by the 2600's capabilities.   If Atari wanted to turn it into a horror franchise,  should all the games stay true to the original 2600 mechanics/graphics, or should they update the complexity/graphics and sense of creepiness as the hardware capabilities expand?  I'd say the latter.   But problem is Atari never evolved the game through new installments back then, so when they release a modern version, it's inevitably going to feel quite disconnected from the original,  unlike Mario which always contains lots of familiar elements while pushing into new territory. 

 

On 9/30/2023 at 4:56 AM, ledzep said:

I don't know how that Dracula game would have worked as a game with those angled views.  Amazed that they'd even attempt that.

I guess it's telling that the Colecovision Dracula never released!   But an isometric view like that might be a good way to evolve a 5200 or 7800 version of Haunted House 2.   You could check the furniture for the missing parts, instead of just having it appear in the middle of a non-descript room

 

On 9/30/2023 at 4:56 AM, ledzep said:

This seems even more removed from the original than the reimagined version is.  Looks interesting, like Scooby-Doo: The Game but it's adding way more variety and options than the original had.  I feel like the reimagined version didn't expand too far in that sense, you still had the same basic limitations (can only hold one thing at a time, simple walls/doors, same enemies) with better graphics.  And the wrong perspective, though I don't see how you get all those graphics improvements with the original's top-down design.

Yeah it does feel more Scooby Doo than the original 2600 haunted house.   On the other hand,  It goes back to what I said at the top of my post.   I don't think a simple "collect three object pieces and escape" is enough variety for a modern remake.  That was imposed by the limits of the 2600 and rom sizes of the day.   But at the same time 40 years have passed without incremental improvements of the game, so any modern remake is going to feel disconnected from the original.

[ledzep]

3 hours ago, zzip said:

You can buy all sorts of arcade controllers these days with arcade style joysticks and buttons, but trackballs and spinners seem to be a rarity.    I wonder if these modern arcade releases are even programmed to work with a trackball?  Or would they be limited to using a track ball in joystick emulations mode, like the old Atari home trackballs had.   It's not the same because then the speed you move the trackball doesn't have an effect.

 

That's a good question, there's no way to test when there's no officially approved trak-ball or spinner controllers.  Ya, the joystick-mode trak-ball sucked but at least it felt a little closer to normal.

 

3 hours ago, zzip said:

They have started to do this.   They put the unreleased Akka Arrh arcade game on Atari 50, and released a modern stand-alone version by Jeff Minter.

 

Well, that's something.  I guess the real question is how many games, regardless of how far they got developed, were started back in the day and then abandoned?

 

 

Ok, I'd much rather play the original than Minter's hallucinogen version, way too much unnecessary graphics in his version.  I think that guy is way overhyped, I like some of his update ideas, others are trash.  I couldn't tell what was going on in the new version, it was far more obvious in the original arcade version.  Interesting, based on Minter's design I assumed the original was a color vector game.  This reviewer was talking about using a spinner to control the game but the game is moving in 2 axes so it clearly needs a trak-ball, not a spinner (does he not know the difference?).  Aha, that's what this review says -

 

https://lostmediawiki.com/Akka_Arrh_(found_prototype_of_unreleased_Atari_arcade_game;_1982)

 

I guess good luck getting a trak-ball on a PS5, another game that will be played wrong at home by most people.  Unless they are serious and play it on MAME, obviously, with the right control scheme.  Based on this article, I can't say I feel sorry for the 3 owners of the prototype cabinets due to the "anonymous" ROM release.  Who cares if the ROM gets dumped, the physical arcade cabinets are still super rare and worth a lot.  Nobody likes a hoarder.

 

4 hours ago, zzip said:

I guess the question is if you want to modernize old games, is it better to stay true to the original mechanics or stay true to the theme?  Look at what Nintendo has done with Mario.   If all they did was remake Donkey Kong every few years with slightly update graphics, Mario would barely be a thing,  instead he shows up in various games.

 

Haunted House is a fairly simple game that is limited by the 2600's capabilities.   If Atari wanted to turn it into a horror franchise,  should all the games stay true to the original 2600 mechanics/graphics, or should they update the complexity/graphics and sense of creepiness as the hardware capabilities expand?  I'd say the latter.   But problem is Atari never evolved the game through new installments back then, so when they release a modern version, it's inevitably going to feel quite disconnected from the original,  unlike Mario which always contains lots of familiar elements while pushing into new territory. 

 

Ya, that's always the question.  It's kind of the same with movie remakes of very old stories - leave it period or set it in the modern world, adjust the stupid parts or leave them in?

 

I can't see how new installments on a 2600 would have added anything.  5200 or 7800, maybe, then like you say there'd be a history of advancements.  I would love to see an attempt on the 5200, a game half-way between the original and this new super version.

 

4 hours ago, zzip said:

I guess it's telling that the Colecovision Dracula never released!   But an isometric view like that might be a good way to evolve a 5200 or 7800 version of Haunted House 2.   You could check the furniture for the missing parts, instead of just having it appear in the middle of a non-descript room

 

Haunted Zaxxon?  Ya, a more involved Easter egg hunt than just sliding around grabbing parts in random rooms.

 

4 hours ago, zzip said:

Yeah it does feel more Scooby Doo than the original 2600 haunted house.   On the other hand,  It goes back to what I said at the top of my post.   I don't think a simple "collect three object pieces and escape" is enough variety for a modern remake.  That was imposed by the limits of the 2600 and rom sizes of the day.   But at the same time 40 years have passed without incremental improvements of the game, so any modern remake is going to feel disconnected from the original.

 

No, you're right.  But the "collect three object pieces and escape" could be a simple training level or something.  The mechanics could stay the same but now with multiple buttons and better graphics a more involved version could be made where you can hold more than one object at a time and there could be bigger buildings to deal with and rooms with different shapes.

[Giles N]

The music… the question of style and synthwave.

 

I had this (and the rest of the album) on my stereo in the background as I got through Sirius for the 7800.

 

 

Even though it would be hard to produce such music in larger more generic quantities, I really like the fusion of chiptune-sound-in-electronic rock.

 

The chiptune-sounds creates a feeling of 8-bit nostalgia.

 

Electronic… well… video-games are electronics aren’t they… 

 

…rock creates punch and adrenaline

 

- - -  

 

My view.

 

And of course, lets not forget that those graphics must really be upgraded… like, recharged-recharged.

[JPF997]

On 10/3/2023 at 1:31 AM, Giles N said:

The music… the question of style and synthwave.

 

I had this (and the rest of the album) on my stereo in the background as I got through Sirius for the 7800.

 

 

Even though it would be hard to produce such music in larger more generic quantities, I really like the fusion of chiptune-sound-in-electronic rock.

 

The chiptune-sounds creates a feeling of 8-bit nostalgia.

 

Electronic… well… video-games are electronics aren’t they… 

 

…rock creates punch and adrenaline

 

- - -  

 

My view.

 

And of course, lets not forget that those graphics must really be upgraded… like, recharged-recharged.

Yup this type of music sounds great, wouldn't mind playing a game that goes hard on using this sort of music.

[Lord Mushroom]

I haven´t played any of the originals, nor any of the Recharged ones, but I still think I deserve the right to live. I think the originals are obsolete, and I have no interest in playing them, unless I stumble upon a cabinet. Most of the Recharged games look interesting, though, and I am especially fond of co-op, so I will probably be playing the co-op ones sometime in the future.

[ledzep]

On 10/2/2023 at 7:56 AM, zzip said:

You can buy all sorts of arcade controllers these days with arcade style joysticks and buttons, but trackballs and spinners seem to be a rarity.    I wonder if these modern arcade releases are even programmed to work with a trackball?  Or would they be limited to using a track ball in joystick emulations mode, like the old Atari home trackballs had.   It's not the same because then the speed you move the trackball doesn't have an effect.

 

Interesting, I was looking online for any info on the rumored 3-Base Missile Command game that was coded long ago internally at Atari that would have used a modded CX-22 Trak-Ball controller (with 2 extra buttons using the Paddle controller lines) for the 8-bit computers (didn't find anything, though) and I stumbled across this -

 

 

I guess that's the first Recharged version?  Goddamn how I hate that camera angle but that's clearly a trak-ball controller moving that cursor, and it's not joystick mode as far as I can tell.  From the comments it's a USB mouse controller and he seems to be pressing only 1 button.  Still, there's hope for younger players to play these games right though I don't know if that applies to a PS5.

[JPF997]

57 minutes ago, ledzep said:

 

Interesting, I was looking online for any info on the rumored 3-Base Missile Command game that was coded long ago internally at Atari that would have used a modded CX-22 Trak-Ball controller (with 2 extra buttons using the Paddle controller lines) for the 8-bit computers (didn't find anything, though) and I stumbled across this -

 

 

I guess that's the first Recharged version?  Goddamn how I hate that camera angle but that's clearly a trak-ball controller moving that cursor, and it's not joystick mode as far as I can tell.  From the comments it's a USB mouse controller and he seems to be pressing only 1 button.  Still, there's hope for younger players to play these games right though I don't know if that applies to a PS5.

Well friend you don't have to worry about that any longer because I've just sold my PS5, Steam Deck here I come!

 

[adamchevy]

I have enjoyed a few games from the Recharged Series.  I really liked Centipede, Missile Command, Black Widow, and most recently Yars Recharged.  As for liking them more than the originals, no.  I see them as games inspired by the original games and I am happy that they both exist.  I would love to turn one of my CRT Tvs into an XY monitor, so I could more properly enjoy the original Vector arcade games.  We live in an interesting time when Atari is starting to turn the corner and become a good company once again.  I think they are on the right track.  If they bundled the recharged games in with the new Atari VCS and fixed there new Classic controller so that the spinner wasn't terrible, I would buy one.

[+GoldLeader]

On 10/2/2023 at 6:31 PM, Giles N said:

The music… the question of style and synthwave.

 

I had this (and the rest of the album) on my stereo in the background as I got through Sirius for the 7800.

 

 

Even though it would be hard to produce such music in larger more generic quantities, I really like the fusion of chiptune-sound-in-electronic rock.

 

The chiptune-sounds creates a feeling of 8-bit nostalgia.

 

Electronic… well… video-games are electronics aren’t they… 

 

…rock creates punch and adrenaline

 

- - -  

 

My view.

 

And of course, lets not forget that those graphics must really be upgraded… like, recharged-recharged.

 

But of course this is Celldweller (AKA Scandroid, one of the 2 main guys from Argyle Park (a single release heavy, controversial, Metal Industrial Christian CD BITD))...I think he's a bit of a genius actually.  If you listen to the way he does things...Well I'll bet he sometimes spends more time crafting a single sound (sample) than some synthwave guys do making a whole song.   Now if songs like THIS were on those game soundtracks,  I'd be down!! 

 

  (PS Note the record scratches under the sampled piano/bass parts, all intentional of course)...

 

 

[Giles N]

 

Anyone who’ve played Berzerk Recharged (yet)?

 

[CapitanClassic]

Centipede Recharged is free with Prime (if you link to your Epic Games account).

If the leak can be believed, Black Widow and Caverns of Mars are upcoming.

 

November 23 Black Widow: Recharged [Epic Games Store]

November 30 Caverns of Mars: Recharged [Epic Games Store]

[Giles N]

On 10/27/2023 at 7:42 AM, GoldLeader said:

Celldweller (AKA Scandroid, one of the 2 main guys from Argyle Park 

… aka Circle of Dust… (aka for real Klayton…) 

… that kind of music would be deserving a triple-A FPS or something…

 

…but I’d buy it just for the music itself anyway 😅

Edited November 9, 2023 by Giles N

[+GoldLeader]

40 minutes ago, Giles N said:

… aka Circle of Dust… (aka for real Klayton…) 

… that kind of music would be deserving a triple-A FPS or something…

 

…but I’d buy it just for the music itself anyway 😅

 

Awesome!  I saw Circle of Dust at Cornerstone Festival in 1993!

[Giles N]

18 minutes ago, GoldLeader said:

 

Awesome!  I saw Circle of Dust at Cornerstone Festival in 1993!

👍🏻What was his live-shows like back then…? (Only seen a recorded Cellsweller concert on YouTube, and I don’t he’s gigging around so much these days).

 

- - -

 

Lots of his Circle of Dust-music have gotten Electronica/Synth-remixes.

 

Some of the stuff is really, really biting the futuristic-dystopian atmosphere close to the neck…

Edited November 9, 2023 by Giles N

[+GoldLeader]

24 minutes ago, Giles N said:

👍🏻What was his live-shows like back then…? (Only seen a recorded Cellsweller concert on YouTube, and I don’t he’s gigging around so much these days).

 

- - -

 

Lots of his Circle of Dust-music have gotten Electronica/Synth-remixes.

 

Some of the stuff is really, really biting the futuristic-dystopian atmosphere close to the neck…

 

Ahh, ...the Magic of the Internet! (I wanna say it was billed as  Brainchild/Circle of Dust,  but don't quote me)...   This'll kill ya,  (even at VHS quality).  Sometimes I do totally see myself in these videos!,  And I wasn't aware I was being filmed!!  As for this exact show, I have a hard time recalling,...Seems to me there was another band playing at the same time that we also wanted to see (possibly Living Sacrifice or Mortification),  So we left after part of it to see the other show,  That's the problem with these festivals isn't it?  I'm still annoyed with one Warped Tour where they put Pennywise and Dropkick Murphys on at the same time at opposite ends of the park...

 

 

[Giles N]

18 minutes ago, GoldLeader said:

This'll kill ya,  (even at VHS quality). 

It totally killed me: feel like I’m 460 years old now 😂😂

 

- - -

So it’s 90ies homestyle camcording… but I can feel the charm…

Edited November 9, 2023 by Giles N

[+GoldLeader]

1 minute ago, Giles N said:

It totally killed me: feel like I’m 460 years old now 😂😂

 

Yup!  Things were a lot simpler back then...No big screens or LASERS,  Hell even bands I was in tried harder to do something additional,...tried to make the shows more interesting., (We liked stage lights, banners, sometimes costumes, and occasionally blew stuff up,  but don't get me wrong it was still all about the music at its heart!).  I think Circle of Dust was like an industrial tinged,  straight ahead thrash band really;  I thought I remembered more keyboards, and they did have samples etc., but personally I don't think Klayton hit his stride until the Argyle Park album.  That and what came next generally kicked ass! ...

[+Zeptari]

On 9/28/2023 at 4:40 PM, JPF997 said:

Here's some gameplay of asteroids recharged

Nice run you had there. This is the only Recharged game I own. I purchased it when it first came out, decided to return to it again after reading this thread. Glad I did, It's a really fun game. I might grab Berzerk or Gravitar next.

[+Zeptari]

On 11/9/2023 at 1:48 PM, Giles N said:

Anyone who’ve played Berzerk Recharged (yet)?

Maybe sooner rather than later, might just buy them in alphabetical order. 

[Giles N]

6 minutes ago, Zeptari said:

Maybe sooner rather than later, might just buy them in alphabetical order. 

I bougth it 2 days ago.

 

Wrote my mini-review over at Berzerk:Recharged announced-thread.