PiStorm - Ultimate CPU/RAM/Graphics solution for STs! Join in!

[uji]

Hi everyone,

dad664npc aka cryptodad has been developing PiStorm on the Atari for several months now and have gotten to the point where it is performing well, albeit needing a Pi4. The current offerings are 68000/68010/68020/68030/68040 - FPU can be added to 68020. Two virtual IDE drives are available, and just recently, ET4000 graphic emulation has been added, having 1MB of VRAM so resolutions upto 1024x768x256. SCSI emulation is being worked on at the moment.

This project really needs additional devs. It would be fantastic to get networking up and running. The Amiga PiStorm community is absolutely massive, many users/supporters and contributors... But the Atari side has only 1 active developer and 1 active tester! We really need the support of the community! Please, can we get some interest in PiStorm in our beloved Atari community going? Github: https://github.com/gotaproblem/pistorm-atari

 

Come join the pistorm-atari discord channel - https://discord.gg/XFEBA8QDzQ

 

Thank you all!

 

 

 

Edited September 23, 2023 by uji

[bfollowell]

It sounds very interesting. I'll have to research further and watch for updates.

 

Thanks!

 

[thedocbwarren]

I think this is very neat, however a little thing comes to mind...  It's really just emulating an ST and highjacking the bus.  True for the Amiga as well.  I love these machines but this seems like just an emulator.  It's likely the long run but why not design a Pi that can boot the emulator directly and 3d print an ST case for it?

 

That said I'm keeping my eye on this as it's really neat.

Edited September 27, 2023 by thedocbwarren

[bfollowell]

1 hour ago, thedocbwarren said:

I think this is very neat, however a little thing comes to mind...  It's really just emulating an ST and highjacking the bus.  True for the Amiga as well.  I love these machines but this seems like just an emulator.  It's likely the long run but why not design a Pi that can boot the emulator directly and 3d print an ST case for it?

 

That said I'm keeping my eye on this as it's really neat.

I was wondering the same thing. I really don't care for glorified emulators that try to pass themselves off as upgrades, if that's truly what this is.

 

If that's the case, it really isn't a whole lot different than this emulator:

 

The main difference being that Rastari never really tried to pass itself off as more than what it is.

 

Still, I'm very interested in watching this develop. It's not like I'm opposed to emulators and haven't used them for years.

 

[Tillek]

2 hours ago, thedocbwarren said:

I think this is very neat, however a little thing comes to mind...  It's really just emulating an ST and highjacking the bus.  True for the Amiga as well.  I love these machines but this seems like just an emulator.  It's likely the long run but why not design a Pi that can boot the emulator directly and 3d print an ST case for it?

 

That said I'm keeping my eye on this as it's really neat.

Glad you said that.... I was wondering if this really was more "emulator that uses your ST as a dumb terminal" kind of thing.

 

[Tillek]

As opposed to say... this....

http://atari.gfabasic.net/htm/v4sa.htm

 

Which is running an Atari OS (Mint, in this case).  Where does PiStorm lay between that and just running an emulator?

[thedocbwarren]

Awesome, going to try this out! (Rastari)

Edited September 28, 2023 by thedocbwarren

[+Sauron]

I love the whole idea of the PiStorm, and had been wondering why we hadn't seen anything like this as of yet for the ST...until I saw some of the replies on this thread. Why the snobbish attitude towards it? The PiStorm has a lot of advantages over many other drop-in replacements or emulation boxes, the biggest of which is that it allows you to continue using your original ST system while upgrading it with much faster speeds and other QoL improvements. Is it relying on emulation? Yes, but does that really matter? I'd be happy to lend a hand to the project if I had the expertise to do so, but unfortunately I don't even own an ST at the moment. it would be great if some others are able to lend a hand, and I hope uji isn't discouraged by the responses he's gotten so far.

[ggn]

Also agree with @Sauron, I don't understand the dissing. Also, all this "it's an emulator!!!!111" discussion is a bit bizarre. If Atari were still supporting the ST line, wouldn't they have made new platforms? Who's to say they wouldn't adopt projects like the PiStorm or Vampire?

 

In any case, the real bottleneck for people not working any project is the amount of active developers. There's not many of them, and they usually have so many projects that adding yet another one to their lists is probably not going to amount to much. Then again, advertising the project a bit more can help raise awareness, as this thread demonstrated.

[Cyprian]

10 hours ago, Tillek said:

As opposed to say... this....

http://atari.gfabasic.net/htm/v4sa.htm

 

Which is running an Atari OS (Mint, in this case).  Where does PiStorm lay between that and just running an emulator?

 

PiSTorm and V4SA are not competitors, both of them offers great possibilities (e.g. better sound and graphics resolution) and have its own pros and cons

 

Just quick (not complete) summary:

V4SA

Pros:

 - CPU Performance

 - 68000 compatible

 - New CPU MMX instructions

 - New CPU texture mapping instructions

 - hardware fast blitter and 3D support

 - 16x 16bit audio channels

 - a small lightweight box

Cons:

 - lack of Atari hardware registers - V4SA is just a GEM/TOS compatible clone

 - lack of CPU MMU

 - price

 

PiSTorm:

Pros:

 - 68000/20/30/40 compatible
 - Atari hardware registers

 - full HD gfx

 - programmable infrastructure

 - WiFi

 - real Atari hardware - keyboard/mouse

 - price

Cons:

 - CPU performance

 - weight

 

 

[+Sauron]

4 minutes ago, Cyprian said:

 

PiSTorm and V4SA are not competitors, both of them offers great possibilities (e.g. better sound and graphics resolution) and have its own pros and cons

 

I wasn't aware of the V4SA project, that one looks pretty cool as well. And yes, like you said, they're hardly competitors. If they can have all of these cool toys for the Amiga, then we can have them for the ST. I don't see multiple options being a bad thing.

 

[+CyranoJ]

This is cool, and no different to shoving a 68060 in a Falcon, which I assume is something that everyone bitching would love to own.

 

 

[Cyprian]

btw. it seems there is a chance for the PiSTorm for the Falcon. Also, the new RPi 5 is now available in the market.

[bfollowell]

8 hours ago, Sauron said:

I love the whole idea of the PiStorm, and had been wondering why we hadn't seen anything like this as of yet for the ST...until I saw some of the replies on this thread. Why the snobbish attitude towards it? The PiStorm has a lot of advantages over many other drop-in replacements or emulation boxes, the biggest of which is that it allows you to continue using your original ST system while upgrading it with much faster speeds and other QoL improvements. Is it relying on emulation? Yes, but does that really matter? I'd be happy to lend a hand to the project if I had the expertise to do so, but unfortunately I don't even own an ST at the moment. it would be great if some others are able to lend a hand, and I hope uji isn't discouraged by the responses he's gotten so far.

 

For me, when the "upgrade" replaces pretty much everything inside the original device that made it what it was, and basically turns the original device into a dumb terminal for accessing a new and different computer, a Raspberry Pi in this case, running emulation software, then the upgrade is no longer an upgrade. It's a replacement, and the classic device is completely wasted.

 

Now, I'm not certain that this is the case with the PiStorm, which is why I said that I'm interested in finding out more and watching the future development. If this is the case with the PiStorm, then I really fail to see the point. It would be no different than opening a SNES case, installing a RPi 3b+, running RetroPi on it while somehow interfacing the original controller ports into it and calling it an upgrade. Is it really an upgrade at that point? I mean, what is left of the original device that's actually still doing anything? If that's what's going on, I already have an excellent emulator setup using Hatari on my modern gaming rig. I mean, if that's what others want to do, fine, whatever floats their boat, but it wouldn't be for me. To me it would just be a waste of a good old retro computer that would be better off running on its own.

 

Again, I'm not saying this is the case with PiStorm, and I definitely plan on reading through the Github and other related sites to learn more. I'm all for retro emulation and do quite a bit of it myself. I just don't want to sacrifice a classic old system to do it. I look forward to learning much more about PiStorm and it's Atari ST implementation.

 

[Cwiiis]

1 hour ago, bfollowell said:

 

For me, when the "upgrade" replaces pretty much everything inside the original device that made it what it was, and basically turns the original device into a dumb terminal for accessing a new and different computer, a Raspberry Pi in this case, running emulation software, then the upgrade is no longer an upgrade. It's a replacement, and the classic device is completely wasted.

 

Now, I'm not certain that this is the case with the PiStorm, which is why I said that I'm interested in finding out more and watching the future development. If this is the case with the PiStorm, then I really fail to see the point. It would be no different than opening a SNES case, installing a RPi 3b+, running RetroPi on it while somehow interfacing the original controller ports into it and calling it an upgrade. Is it really an upgrade at that point? I mean, what is left of the original device that's actually still doing anything? If that's what's going on, I already have an excellent emulator setup using Hatari on my modern gaming rig. I mean, if that's what others want to do, fine, whatever floats their boat, but it wouldn't be for me. To me it would just be a waste of a good old retro computer that would be better off running on its own.

 

Again, I'm not saying this is the case with PiStorm, and I definitely plan on reading through the Github and other related sites to learn more. I'm all for retro emulation and do quite a bit of it myself. I just don't want to sacrifice a classic old system to do it. I look forward to learning much more about PiStorm and it's Atari ST implementation.

 

This absolutely isn't the case with the PiStorm. The PiStorm is more equivalent of replacing the 68000 with a much faster CPU (let's say a 68040, which I think is an option, though the Pi can likely run a lot faster than any real 040). You have the option of also letting it provide extra RAM and various other extensions (a video card, a sound card, network-backed storage, ROMs). The amount that you replace/augment is up to you, personally I'd probably use it as a way of getting a CPU and RAM boost for productivity tasks and perhaps the small handful of games that actually run almost unplayably slowly on a stock ST(e). No matter what you do, your original RAM, keyboard, joystick/mice, MIDI ports, YM chip, blitter, DMA, FDD controller are all being used, you're still somewhat limited by the bus speed, this isn't at all the same as running an emulator.

 

I think if a person is open-minded enough to consider CPU upgrades, the PiStorm is an interesting proposition - that it uses a Pi makes it no less authentic than any other upgrade that chooses an FPGA as its base instead, it just makes it much cheaper and more accessible. Personally, I'm waiting for BadWolf's STE PiStorm board to reach fruition so I can install one more easily, but I'll definitely be investigating it in the future and hopefully coming on board!

[+DarkLord]

I'm definitely following the multiple threads at multiple forums on this subject.

 

Interesting! 

 

[amiman99]

I have PiStorm with RPiZero2 on my Amiga 500, and it's a superb upgrade. PiStorm is basically CPU emulator and memory adapter with crazy speeds (you can also enable gfx card and networking if you like). All ports are usable.

I would assume it should be the same in Atari ST(e).

 

The question is: Are there any applications that will utilize all that CPU power?

 

[+DarkLord]

You could apply that same question to any upgrade that speeds up the ST.

 

I've got an AdSpeed in my Mega ST4, I've got a 40mhz/68882 Pak 68/3

board in my STacy and I love them. I wouldn't ever want to go back to

stock speeds. Everything I do is enhanced and faster with these boards.

 

I can only imagine having a PiSTorm in my machines...and what it would

do for them.  

 

[uji]

EDIT: ---- As of 30/Sept PiStorm now also works on a Pi3 (moderators if you could add that extra info to the main post I'd appreciate it)

[uji]

And just to clarify for people who are confused by what is emulated and what is not:

 

Physically what you are doing: Removing your Motorola 68k CPU from your Atari, replacing it with a Pi-storm.

----> Just to point out for the 'right perspective', that Motorola 68k CPU is NOT your Atari. The 68k is the number crunching part of the system, that is all! The REAL Atari is the Atari custom chipset, the Glue, MMU, Shifter. The Yamaha chip for sound. The WD chip for floppy access. All these chips are still in use, your Atari is still an Atari! You have just replaced the number-cruncher with a much faster version. It is basically a CPU upgrade. (A CPU upgrade with the unlimited potential of adding endless extra interfaces, ie; wireless LAN, graphics cards, you name it - but the best thing is that you are not forced to add anything more than you want, you can simply just keep it as CPU only, or CPU with FastRAM only)

 

Rastari however is *completely* different. So is the V4SA. Both not only replace the CPU, but they also emulate the whole ST chipset. So yes, that is a full-blown emulation. Pi-Storm is not.

 

Hope this helps clarify for @bfollowell and @thedocbwarren and anyone else

Edited October 1, 2023 by uji

[bfollowell]

3 hours ago, uji said:

And just to clarify for people who are confused by what is emulated and what is not:

 

Physically what you are doing: Removing your Motorola 68k CPU from your Atari, replacing it with a Pi-storm.

----> Just to point out for the 'right perspective', that Motorola 68k CPU is NOT your Atari. The 68k is the number crunching part of the system, that is all! The REAL Atari is the Atari custom chipset, the Glue, MMU, Shifter. The Yamaha chip for sound. The WD chip for floppy access. All these chips are still in use, your Atari is still an Atari! You have just replaced the number-cruncher with a much faster version. It is basically a CPU upgrade. (A CPU upgrade with the unlimited potential of adding endless extra interfaces, ie; wireless LAN, graphics cards, you name it - but the best thing is that you are not forced to add anything more than you want, you can simply just keep it as CPU only, or CPU with FastRAM only)

 

Rastari however is *completely* different. So is the V4SA. Both not only replace the CPU, but they also emulate the whole ST chipset. So yes, that is a full-blown emulation. Pi-Storm is not.

 

Hope this helps clarify for @bfollowell and @thedocbwarren and anyone else

Yes, your post, and other previous posts have helped considerably. I'm watching future development very closely.

 

[+LarryL]

Hi,

just ordered a PiStorm to start playing around, testing, having fun…

I have an Exxos H5 available…

 

one question: which version of the Pi4 is required? I mean, what RAM size - 1G, 2G, 4G or even 8G?

 

cheers

Michael

[uji]

Hi @LarryL

 

Great you have a H5! I use a PiStorm in my H5 too! It's absolutely perfect, I fit it in the socket behind the shifter and everything fits perfectly. You can use any RAM size you like, it will work from 1GB+. Feel free to join the Discord channel for advice.

[+LarryL]

17 minutes ago, uji said:

Hi @LarryL

 

Great you have a H5! I use a PiStorm in my H5 too! It's absolutely perfect, I fit it in the socket behind the shifter and everything fits perfectly. You can use any RAM size you like, it will work from 1GB+. Feel free to join the Discord channel for advice.

Hi @uji

thanks, just waiting for the deliveries of the Pi4 (have chosen the 2G version) and the PiStorm

most probably both will not arrive until Friday, so I will join the party a bit later

 

Will also join the Discord channel then

 

regards

Michael

[uji]

New video by Badwolf showing off his new PiSTorm STe adaptor!