It's probably easier to convince a brick wall to try out Atari's games than most modern gamer's

[Giles N]

42 minutes ago, Cris1997XX said:

And as I've mentioned before, a new Food Fight game in the style of Vampire Survivors with dual analogue controls, an upgrade shop, etc

This one’d skipped my attention. Watched gameplay now.

I would think this is more what a new Haunted House ought to be like - just better graphics (than Vamp.S.) and set within, as well as without haunted houses, schools and what-not.

Just add some stuff about need for light in dark places, and mazes within the haunted places - and I think it could be make for great fun while staying close to the originals top-down perspective.

 

But sure, - something like his could also work with more Food Fight games. 

Edited December 31, 2023 by Giles N

[Giles N]

26 minutes ago, Warboss Gegguz said:

and a weird obsession with the 80s and 90s (music, analog horror, pixel art and chiptune EVERYTHING, etc.) has led to a huge revival of retro games and game design if anything.

It’s wierd what you mention here seems to (perhaps only as to new games), have skipped Atari, as faux-retro-styled games are all over the place on Apple store.

 

I think you’re perfectly justified in pointing out the problem is past Atari-constellations’ poor decisions on many fronts, unwillingness to learn from obvious repeated mistakes and around 2010 almost loosing their grip on that Atari is about video-games, gaming-hardware, video-gaming-invention etc.

 

A need for tight focus on quality games and quality-gaming equipment is called for (some, I guess, would say, in time overdue).

Edited December 31, 2023 by Giles N

[Warboss Gegguz]

35 minutes ago, Cris1997XX said:

Well, here is my honest opinion: Games like Pong and Breakout have obviously aged the worst since they're from the early to mid 70s, and many later games did these concepts better. Bentley Bear has still got some value, but it should be reworked into a (quality) mascot platformer.

Especially when the entire concept of Crystal Castles works perfectly with a collectethon formula. I mean, if Pac-Man can do it...

37 minutes ago, Cris1997XX said:

A modern version of Battlezone with clean 4K vector graphics and lots of effects flying all over the screen would be great, as well as a new Tempest game with an expanded soundtrack and support for 3D audio, which would go a long way into enhancing the experience.

We got a taste of that with the VKTR game in Atari 50, and it's probably my favorite of the Reimagined titles. Legitimately worth being expanded on. We also do have stuff like Jeff Minter's Akka Ar remake and Tempest 4K, which are both probably 2 of the best attempts at modernization Atari has in its current library.

We sadly can't have battlezone specifically though since they sold it to rebellion, but rebellion already made a Battlezone reboot with a vector-style mode as a bonus.

40 minutes ago, Cris1997XX said:

And as I've mentioned before, a new Food Fight game in the style of Vampire Survivors with dual analogue controls, an upgrade shop, etc.

I think more can be done with food fight absolutely... but I think the Magic Survival/Vampire Survivors-clone trend has kind of gotten stale. It would be good as a twinstick or something that reinvents the formula, but i don't think reskinning trends would be an amazing idea. Again, I'd say look to what Namco, Taito, or Raw Thrills are doing to find reinventions of old games.

[Cris1997XX]

3 minutes ago, Giles N said:

It’s wierd what you mention here seems to (perhaps only as to new games), have skipped Atari, as faux-retro-styled games are all over the place on Apple store.

 

I think you’re perfectly justified in pointing out the problem is past Atari-constellations’ poor decisions on many fronts, unwillingness to learn from obvious repeated mistakes and around 2010 almost loosimg their grip on that Atari is about video-games, gaming-hardware, video-gaming-invention etc.

 

A need for tight focus on quality games and quality-gaming equipment is called for (some, I guess, would say, in time overdue).

As much as Atari can try, they'll never succeed if they don't hire the right companies. They've got Digital Eclipse and Nightdive Studios to work on re-releases and emulation, but that's not enough in 2023. They'll need some skilled developers for new games using their IPs, and I'm not sure they're 100% willing to spend the money on that

[Warboss Gegguz]

4 minutes ago, Giles N said:

It’s wierd what you mention here seems to (perhaps only as to new games), have skipped Atari, as faux-retro-styled games are all over the place on Apple store.

I think the main problem comes down to the pretty simple issue that, as said, the second-gen is mostly arcade ports outside of a few famous standouts.

Like, when you ask someone about Space Invaders, or Battlezone, or Asteroids, or Pac-Man, or Breakout, or... usually they'll be thinking of the arcade game, not the home console port of the arcade game.

There's just very few really original titles for the 2600. Even most of Atari's games were either ports or clones of existing games.

 

Activision was probably the most stand-out devs in terms of creativity and innovation on the platform, save for guys like Howard Shaw. And by extension I would say most people I know think of stuff like Pitfall when they think of the 2600.

The colorful and iconic boxart of early activision titles also helps them be recognizable vs. the standard realistic art or marque shots on most other titles.

 

So again, it more or less boils down to there just not being much to work with when it comes to the 2600.

My main interest in the platform comes from arcade conversions (official or homebrew) and Activision titles, so I can't say I don't understand why. And with the 2600 being sandwiched between the arcade golden age and the NES, it's pretty understandable.

Bit of a shame, but understandable.

[Warboss Gegguz]

10 minutes ago, Cris1997XX said:

They've got Digital Eclipse and Nightdive Studios to work on re-releases and emulation, but that's not enough in 2023. They'll need some skilled developers for new games using their IPs, and I'm not sure they're 100% willing to spend the money on that

I agree that rereleases aren't enough, but given the original games we've seen from both NightDive and DE, I do feel you're selling them a bit short.

I get what you mean though.

[Cris1997XX]

Just now, Warboss Gegguz said:

I think the main problem comes down to the pretty simple issue that, as said, the second-gen is mostly arcade ports outside of a few famous standouts.

It doesn't help that the top three best selling games on the Atari 2600 are frickin' arcade games: Donkey Kong, Space Invaders...and obviously Pac Man. People back then really wanted the arcade experience at home, even if it meant compromised graphics and sound. Of course, all arcade galleries died in the west and consoles have become a lot more powerful, so that doesn't really apply anymore.

[Giles N]

23 minutes ago, Cris1997XX said:

They'll need some skilled developers for new games using their IPs, and I'm not sure they're 100% willing to spend the money on that

No, - not as of yet at least. They seem to want to make sure Atari as it is now, won’t financially stand or fall with one single project.

It seems they do 2 medium priced modern games a year, continue their Recharged series, and then one bigger investment: in ‘22 the 50th Anniversary Celebration and for ‘23 the 2600+ (some would add the Gamestation, I’m not the one to know which one has cost the most or gotten more attention. My impression is that the 2600+ got most attention, simply due to its legacy-status).

 

I don’t think they’d be uninterested in doing a AAA game… if they had economy that wouldn’t make it a ‘stand or fall’-project.

 

Yet, I believe the Recharged games could easily have gotten a bit broader interest, simply by making them a tad deeper. Just like having 4 different environments, where the classic had only one, or having boss-fights where the originals only had infinite enemy waves… also having checkpoints where you can realign your in-game resources - even if it was given to an infinite-gameplay-algorithm that put in check-points in proprotion to number of rounds won.

 

Just add that little extra stuff to make it feel like you build-up, progress, see/experience new stuff with additional challenges to master. For the price tag, I’m not asking 10

elaborate worlds, and 100 new weapons or moves, just the stuff above: from an original with only only one setting-type, make it 4, with originals that have just waves and waves of enemies, add boss-fights, realignment/set-up/buy-sell-checkpoints etc.

Edited December 31, 2023 by Giles N

[Cris1997XX]

2 minutes ago, Giles N said:

No, - not as of yet at least. They seem to want to make sure Atari as it is now, won’t financially stand or fall with one single project.

It seems they do 2 medium priced modern games a year, continue their Recharged series, and then one bigger investment: in ‘22 the 50th Anniversary Celebration and for ‘23 the 2600+ (some would add the Gamestation, I’m not the one to know which one has cost the most or gotten more attention. My impression is that the 2600+ got most attention, simply due to its legacy-status).

 

I don’t think they’d uniterested in doing a AAA game… if they had economy that wouldn’t make it a ‘stand or fall’-project.

 

Yet, I brlieve the Recharged games could easily have gotten a bit broader interest, simply by making them a tad deeper. Just like having 4 different environments, where the classic had only one, or having boss-fights where the originals only had infinite enemy waves… also having checkpoints where you can realign your in-game resources - even if it was given to an infinite-gameplay-algorithm that put in check-points in proprotion to number of rounds won.

 

Just add that little extra stuff to make it feel like you build-up, progress, see/experience new stuff with additional challenges to master. For the price tag, I’m not asking 10

elaborate worlds, and 100 new weapons or moves, just the stuff above: from an original with only only one setting-type, make it 4, with originals that have just waves and waves of enemies, add boss-fights, realignment/set-up/buy-sell-checkpoints etc.

You're right, it seems like they're mostly pandering to their old fans at the moment. Sure, they might have a stable income and feel nostalgic about the late 70s/early 80s, but they won't live forever. Atari needs to keep into consideration their future customers too, because they'll be the ones buying their games in a few years

[Warboss Gegguz]

26 minutes ago, Cris1997XX said:

It doesn't help that the top three best selling games on the Atari 2600 are frickin' arcade games: Donkey Kong, Space Invaders...and obviously Pac Man. People back then really wanted the arcade experience at home, even if it meant compromised graphics and sound. Of course, all arcade galleries died in the west and consoles have become a lot more powerful, so that doesn't really apply anymore.

Which is a shame, since the ports of DK and Pac-Man are legendarily fucking terrible, lol.

That said, THE best selling game iirc was Yars' Revenge. Which is again on the short list of very well known games exclusive  to the 2600. My first time hearing the name was the XBLA/Windows Panzer Dragoon clone though. Solid game.

 

And I will say the mentality of shying away from arcade/arcadey games was really only a Western thing. Part of why the Saturn outsold the N64 in Japan, and why Japanese companies (particularly Namco, Taito, and Sega) are so keen on rereleasing and updating their Arcade IPs. Not even just in compilations. As said, you got stuff like Pac-Man CE, Space Invaders Extreme, Infinity Gene, Frenzy, etc. Bubble Bobble games, Sega 3D Ages, not to mention new entries in the Aleste series that came out less than a year ago and the sting of Natsume developed Taito games.

Like, Japan loves RPGs and longform games, but they also still adore arcade games.

 

Arcades have only kind of recently started to die in Japan, and even then that's mostly due to the Pandemic. Kind of ironic since arcades are kind of being revived in the west as of recent.

Not trying to be a weeb (i don't need to try to do that) it's just kind of the reality of things over there. Most of my "modern arcade game" library is Japanese devsand/or indies (most of whom are also weebs) for a reason.

I mean, all of the launch titles for the Famicom, Megadrive, Saturn, and Playstation in Japan were arcade ports.

 

Atari could probably capitalize on the JP crowd in all honesty, given they're one of the few American arcade companies that got a lot of respect from the East. Fingers crossed Bandai hasn't totally sworn them off, lol.

Edited December 31, 2023 by Warboss Gegguz

[Living Room Arcade]

1 hour ago, Warboss Gegguz said:

I would agree, and I have had genuinely awesome conversations with people here older than me, since it gives me some better incite into the actual workings of an era of game-design and evolution that I love. Talking to people who have actually met and spoken to dudes like Ed Logg and Eugene Jarvis or even just grew up with arcades being more than just movie theater time-wasters and ticket machines is awesome.

I just also see a lot of weird comments sort of blaming the current state of Atari on the perception people my age and younger have of them rather than, ya know, 20 years of terrible management and poor financial decisions. And it's really ironic since if anything my generation having the attention span of gnats (myself often included, unfortunately) and a weird obsession with the 80s and 90s (music, analog horror, pixel art and chiptune EVERYTHING, etc.) has led to a huge revival of retro games and game design if anything. So seeing people randomly shit on "modern gamers" over the failure of a company that went bankrupt twice and invested in crypto and hotels in attempts to stay afloat (apparently) to adequately market their products and succeed in this industry is a little bit out of touch and ignoring the real issue.

Hell, retro-gaming channels and media outlets are the main reason modern retro-gamers have the impression of Atari that they do. 

 

This just reminds me that the Choice Provisions (ie Bit Trip devs) Breakout game is canned, along with most of those games  

For me, when I think of contemporaries of OG Atari that have managed to stay relevant, I think of Namco and Taito. Ms. Pac-Man Maze Madness, Pac-Man CE, Galaga Legions, Space Invaders Extreme, Space Invaders Infinity Gene, Bubble Bobble 4 Friends, Arkanoid vs. Space Invaders... And those are just ones from the late 2000s onwards. Hell, M2 has made hugely successful revivals of Konami and Sega IPs multiple times that sold to MY generation (the Rebirth Wiiware games are basically considered the best things on the service). So you don't have to deviate THAT MUCH from the original formula to draw in people. You just need to also do SOMETHING beyond a rerelease of old content.

 

The best atari managed to do around the same time was Breakout on PSX and a remake of BattleZone on XBLA (and obviously the recharged games nowadays). Berzerk recharged could've done great given how big Proc-gen and twinsticks are with zoomers (again, speaking as one) and Mr. Run and Jump is just a great platformer a la Meatboy and Celeste... but Atari does next to nothing to market their games so they flew under everyone I know's radar. Hell, the only reason I found Mr. Run and Jump was just dicking around on Atari's steam page. No word of mouth or anything.

Like, in the age of the internet you almost have to TRY to stay that low profile as a major publisher.

 

For me, the biggest issue is the sheer amount of redundancy in the 2600s library. Like, the amount of fixed-shooters alone is borderline comical. And not in a "same genre/mechanics with a different approach", I mean borderline identical games. It's not their "fault" since the hardware was so limited that long-form experiences were basically impossible outside of stuff like Dragonstompper, but most of the console's strongest titles are just arcade ports. The biggest exceptions are Activision and M-Network stuff, and there's a good handful of proper-original first party games that are great (Solarus, Yar's Revenge, etc.).

So it's a bit hard to convince someone with access to MAME or a plethora of rereleases with hand-picked titles to go back to the greater 2600 library for reasons beyond historic significance. My first exposure to the entire console was Activision's collections.

Hell, the main use I get out of Stella on my 3DS is to play arcade-ports. And that's also my main interest when it comes to homebrew. Both because I like the games and because I love crushing such a technologically advanced experience onto such simple hardware.

I think maybe the situation is more complicated for younger guys, but for an old guy like me, it's really simple.  I was one of those lucky, lucky kids who found an Atari VCS under the Christmas tree, and you could say I got hooked on it right away and it changed my life.  The only difference is now I'm older but I still love playing Atari.  As a grown up, I get a private thrill by having on my computer all of the Atari 2600 games that I only wished I could have when I was a kid.  We all have access to Atari Mania's rom collection.  The kid in me is hopping up and down just to have this rom collection on my computer.  Even though I'm an adult and don't have time to play it all day.  Just a few minutes here and there, but it makes me happy.  Also, as an adult, I play a different selection of games.  I play new ones, homebrews, and commercial releases that I didn't own back in the day.  So, it's still Atari, but it's a fresh selection of games, that keeps it fresh for me.  A few for instances: Nowadays, I play A Better Pac-Man, Midnight Magic, Beam Rider and Crossbow.  I didn't have these when I was a kid (some of them didn't exist yet), but I play them now, as an adult, and I love them.  I think we all have emulators for other gaming platforms (NES, SNES, GB, GBC, GBA, etc.) and so do I.  But like Hippobytes on Youtube, I just find myself coming back to good ol' Atari 2600.  

Edited December 31, 2023 by Living Room Arcade

[Giles N]

1 hour ago, Cris1997XX said:

Star Wars arcade game, it would really benefit from a modern remake but obviously Disney likes to get in the way.

Yeah - a remake of Star Wars Arcade, perhaps just adding up Star Wars and Empire Strikes Back, under NightDive, letting them make up a 3D version of Return of the Jedi, would’ve been really cool.

Could have 2 modes - modernized Vector (last level/boss of System Shock visuals) or backdrops with textured polygons - but still stays fairly close to the original gameplay.

 

Would cost a fortune to obtain the licenses though.

 

- - -  

As to Disney and Star Wars,I do not think it was a good thing for Lucas to sell to Disney. 
He should’ve appointed himself a dedicated team under LucasFilm to carry out the sequels, not placed Star Wars under Disney.

It is of course easier to say that retrospective, but in my opinion a lot went wrong with the Star Wars universe after selling it. Sure, this is an anecdote about movies, but since its about carrying on the torch of epic stuff started in the 1970ies, I’ll just say it: I had hoped for something much, much more solid with Episode 7-9. (I never have too high hopes for series and spin-off-everything), and there - at a major opportunity to both carry on something beloved, and perhaps make some weaker points in Episode 1-3 give more meaning, it felt more like a visual overhaul of Ep. 4-6, without really adding what everyone wanted to see: the old heroes fighting and doing action and adventure again together with a new generation of heroes, like when the Fellowship in LOTR breaks up - but all comes together again, or everyone plays their part - even at different locations to the same goal -, in Return of the King. Instead the old heroes are just wiped out one by one, quite early after their appearences - shocking the wits out of audiences who’ve had held them as super-heroes for …30-40 years straight. (When the first audience saw Ben Kenobi die and disappear - they’d known him for like 75 minutes)
Missed opportunity there. 

And as to spin-offs, I just don’t watch them, because they mostly drag it down further for me. The Kenobi series was ok though. 
Lucas should’ve created his own Star Wars team, to make it conform more to the original style and concept and feel. (imho)

 

End of digression

Edited December 31, 2023 by Giles N

[zzip]

Duplicate - removed

Edited December 31, 2023 by zzip

[zzip]

Duplicate- -removed

Edited December 31, 2023 by zzip

[zzip]

  

On 12/29/2023 at 5:23 PM, Astro Rabby said:

The thing about reimagining old IPs is a lot of them need new names. You couldn’t really get away with just naming a game “Haunted House” or especially just “Adventure”. Atari needs to do a lot of revamping to enter the modern market.

This is a problem with 80%-90% of Atari's IP catalog.   The early years of videogames had lots of experiments to see what real-world things can be turned into a game, so you'd get "Hangman", "Poker", "Blackjack", or basic shooters like "Outlaw", "Combat", all of which have very generic names and very little franchise potential.

 

Some of what Atari could have done more with:

Swordquest-  yeah most people hate the original games, but they came with a comic book with fleshed out lore and characters, which is more than most games of that era.  That could be the basis of an Adventure series.  Hell maybe futher Swordquest titles could work in gameplay mechanics from Adventure too rather than the relying on insane puzzle solving the originals had.

 

Crystal Castles - This had everything it needed to be a franchise that could have competed with Mario

 

Star Raiders could have been a space series

 

Some say Yars too

5 hours ago, roots.genoa said:

It has been said before, but it's very hard to reinvent very old games like say, Adventure, like what Nintendo did with the Zelda series, that evolved slowly for almost 40 years. Creating a modern Adventure game would be like jumping from NES Zelda to Tears of Kingdom without anything in-between... 😅

Yep you have to make it better, yet familiar to people so it feels like an extension of the same game.    Maybe they could give these games the recharged treatment as a next stepping stone, although I don't think the flashy vector-like graphics of most recharged games is appropriate for something like Adventure.   Maybe something more pixel-art like AtariMania could work though.

[Living Room Arcade]

9 hours ago, zzip said:

Yep you have to make it better, yet familiar to people so it feels like an extension of the same game.    Maybe they could give these games the recharged treatment as a next stepping stone, although I don't think the flashy vector-like graphics of most recharged games is appropriate for something like Adventure.   Maybe something more pixel-art like AtariMania could work though.

Hypothetically speaking, in a future, recharged Adventure, I suggest that the objects must still flicker when there are three objects in the same room.  It's part of the game play.  It's how you pull the sword out of a dead dragon.  (By putting a third object in the room to make the dragon flicker.)  It's how you first found the magical dot in the black castle.  (Everything started to flicker, but there were only two objects in the room.  Or WERE there??!)  

Edited December 31, 2023 by Living Room Arcade

[+Zeptari]

On 10/17/2023 at 3:20 PM, Flojomojo said:

Quantum Recharged is 2 dollars off right now, maybe I'll grab it since it's one I don't have. 

I had the same mindset here. Berserk Recharged is 50% off on Xbox marketplace .Along with just about the whole recharged series. And it’s actually quite good. Once you get used to the twin stick shooting I had fun time. And if this is the worst reviewed game in the series, I think I’m gonna gobble the rest of them up because I’m enjoying it.

[Arno1978]

I think a lot of what I'd say has been covered in the comments. Atari has had a spotty history. Poor console releases like the Jaguar and Lynx. No smooth, continuous catalog of games like Nintendo has had since 83. I remember when the VCS was announced a few years ago, I emailed Atari at the time to modernize some of their old classics. I had said, use vector graphics and make more modern versions of popular 2600 games. And this they did do (though I have NO idea if my email was even read or gave any inspiration to this at all). My idea was that those modern versions would be exclusive to the VCS - in that you had to own one to play those recharged games. It was an idea to help boost the new console and start building up its library.

 

I've been a gamer since 82 and have seen the industry grow exponentially since then. At one point, I got into development myself. Now, based on being a gamer, observation, and having attempted development myself, I find it's become an extremely difficult industry to make any sort of profit in, let alone getting more than a handful of players actually playing your game. There is so much competition out there on multiple, multiple market places and consoles. In this sense, Atari games will only for the most part appeal to Atari players. People who grew up with these games. To get your average every day modern gamer who has been playing Minecraft, Balder's Gate, No Man's Sky, Team Fortress 2, Counter Strike, Battlefield, WoW, Super Mario Wonder.. this list goes on into the thousands of games, you need a unique IP that doesn't exist or if it's based on a past title - it still has to blow your socks off. A recharged Yars Revenge with updated graphics might be very fun and look excellent. In the maelstrom of popular titles - what will break the modern gamer away from them, to play the new Yars game?

 

From what I see, game development is like playing the Lotto. If you happen to have a very unique idea, the timing is just right, you actually produce a good, fun, mostly bug-free game, you distribute in the right channels, and the game starts picking up interest, you might just profit. When it comes to low budget indie games, the chances that you are going to make a profit are one in however many millions. Games like Minecraft, Baba Is You, Celeste, Iron Lung, Stardew Valley had all the proper ingredients. I've also seen many independent games that were just excellent and very fun.. never take off. There was always something missing with those titles. Either the timing was wrong - example: people have gotten their fill of Harvest Moon clones, or too expensive, too buggy, graphics didn't fit the game or looked amateurish, etc. I've seen a lot of very good, well made indie games that have no players. The same for AAA titles. Companies who have the funds to make AAA titles like Microsoft - have a much better chance at getting their game out there, but even then, those games can dwindle and die fast. So as I said, like the lotto: You buy 1 ticket, you have perhaps 1 in 50 million of winning the jackpot. You have the funds to buy 1 million tickets, you have a 1 in 50 chance.

 

For Atari to appeal to the modern gamer, it will be a very slow non-profitable start. It will be a slow build up, and when they finally have the funds to tackle an AAA title and publish it, even then they'll have to tread carefully and keep an eye on all fronts.

 

[Warboss Gegguz]

14 hours ago, Living Room Arcade said:

I think maybe the situation is more complicated for younger guys, but for an old guy like me, it's really simple.  I was one of those lucky, lucky kids who found an Atari VCS under the Christmas tree, and you could say I got hooked on it right away and it changed my life.  The only difference is now I'm older but I still love playing Atari.  As a grown up, I get a private thrill by having on my computer all of the Atari 2600 games that I only wished I could have when I was a kid.  We all have access to Atari Mania's rom collection.  The kid in me is hopping up and down just to have this rom collection on my computer.  Even though I'm an adult and don't have time to play it all day.  Just a few minutes here and there, but it makes me happy.  Also, as an adult, I play a different selection of games.  I play new ones, homebrews, and commercial releases that I didn't own back in the day.  So, it's still Atari, but it's a fresh selection of games, that keeps it fresh for me.  A few for instances: Nowadays, I play A Better Pac-Man, Midnight Magic, Beam Rider and Crossbow.  I didn't have these when I was a kid (some of them didn't exist yet), but I play them now, as an adult, and I love them.  I think we all have emulators for other gaming platforms (NES, SNES, GB, GBC, GBA, etc.) and so do I.  But like Hippobytes on Youtube, I just find myself coming back to good ol' Atari 2600.  

I fully understand and respect that it's a sentimental attachment that I'll never fully have a grasp on... but I would like to note that I'm mainly speaking from the perspective of other people my age, younger, and a good amount of millennials.

Me personally, I love the 2600, but more so I guess in the way people love classic cinema or golden age and silver age comics. I enjoy it for what it is, but also more so from a historic perspective as someone super into the history of video games. I quote from Rerez I always remember that imo perfectly puts into perspective why I personally appreciate Atari both in the arcades and the 2600 is roughly this:

 

Taito started a leather and tequila company, Nintendo started as a playing card company, Namco and SEGA started as pinball companies... Atari started as a video game company.

 

The FIRST video game company. Even if they later broadened into PCs and such, they are the first. So the basic nature of the games is more quaint than "bad" to me, be they downgraded arcade games or weird original titles. And naturally thanks to time I'm able to quickly sift through the trash and get to the gold on the console. And there are even some games where I honestly prefer the console version to the Arcade version (missile command comes to mind).

 

And at the same time, the techie weirdo that loves ports to underpowered systems also love the stuff the homebrew community pulls off on the Atari. It's awesome to see while also giving me a new way to play arcade titles + some cool original stuff.

 

So, in short, I'm not saying I'm dismissive of the 2600, I'm just saying why I think other young'uns are.

[Warboss Gegguz]

43 minutes ago, Arno1978 said:

For Atari to appeal to the modern gamer, it will be a very slow non-profitable start. It will be a slow build up, and when they finally have the funds to tackle an AAA title and publish it, even then they'll have to tread carefully and keep an eye on all fronts.

I mean, I said this a while ago when it came to people talking about "investment" and financial reports from Atari: This year is very clearly a case of "spending money to make money."

And it's already working. Were it not for Nigh Dive and DE the company would be at flat revenue, but with them they're profitable... so just imagine what the earnings will be when they HAVEN'T spent millions to acquire 2 studios and a portfolio of IPs.

 

And as I said earlier, it's been demonstrated that both Night Dive and Digital Eclipse are capable of being more than just port studios (System Shock Remake, the ND devs' work as modders, the reimagined games, Digital Eclipse Arcade, etc.). They just need the capital stream so they actually have the resources to do so. Lack of consistent capital, management, and being stretched thin are the main reasons System Shock took 7 years to come out. Well worth the wait, but clearly indicative of some issues that can be/are solved by having a AAA-ish company back them.

 

In other words, between their ability to handle Atari's legacy catalog AND their skills as devs in general, DE and ND were ideal for Atari. And as I always say, I'm sure Atari 50 and Blood: Fresh Supply helped, given they've sold better than all the recharged games combined. And in the latter's case, all Atari had to do was give ND the source code to Blood and since the build engine has already been hacked/modded to bits it was a super easy port... so the ROI is INSANE. And likewise for DE's Gold Master series.

[Zoyous]

4 minutes ago, Warboss Gegguz said:

Taito started a leather and tequila company, Nintendo started as a playing card company, Namco and SEGA started as pinball companies... Atari started as a video game company.

🧐Historical clarification: Sega started as a distributor of American jukeboxes, slot machines, and coin-operated amusements (including pinball) to military bases in Hawaii (later rebranding with the contraction of SErvice GAmes).

 

55 minutes ago, Arno1978 said:

I've seen a lot of very good, well made indie games that have no players. The same for AAA titles. Companies who have the funds to make AAA titles like Microsoft - have a much better chance at getting their game out there, but even then, those games can dwindle and die fast. So as I said, like the lotto: You buy 1 ticket, you have perhaps 1 in 50 million of winning the jackpot. You have the funds to buy 1 million tickets, you have a 1 in 50 chance.

It's just the same as it's always been for bands and musicians... artists of all kinds, really. The fact is, talent isn't actually that rare. It's just there's an entire economic system in which almost all value hinges on scarcity. With talent actually in abundance, scarcity has to be imposed. However, what has changed in recent decades is that everyone at least has the means to distribute their work, whether or not they have the means to properly market it.

[Warboss Gegguz]

13 hours ago, zzip said:

  

This is a problem with 80%-90% of Atari's IP catalog.   The early years of videogames had lots of experiments to see what real-world things can be turned into a game, so you'd get "Hangman", "Poker", "Blackjack", or basic shooters like "Outlaw", "Combat", all of which have very generic names and very little franchise potential.

The annoying part is that I think some of the recharged games are great reinventions of old concepts (T2/4K, Akka Ar, Yars, and Berzerk in particular come to mind). But again, fuck if anyone knows they exist.

Lunar Lander Beyond looks like a really good step in the right direction in terms of production value and promotion, so that's good... It's just a shame I hate Lunar Lander.

13 hours ago, zzip said:

Swordquest-  yeah most people hate the original games, but they came with a comic book with fleshed out lore and characters, which is more than most games of that era.  That could be the basis of an Adventure series.  Hell maybe futher Swordquest titles could work in gameplay mechanics from Adventure too rather than the relying on insane puzzle solving the originals had.

I think something like Zelda meets 80s barbarian/knight adventure fiction would work. Maybe with more true-RPG and action elements rather than being mostly puzzles.

 

14 hours ago, zzip said:

Crystal Castles - This had everything it needed to be a franchise that could have competed with Mario

Agreed. It's got collecting items and platforming elements. Again, Pac-Man did it, so why not a different maze-game try it?

 

[Warboss Gegguz]

17 minutes ago, Zoyous said:

🧐Historical clarification: Sega started as a distributor of American jukeboxes, slot machines, and coin-operated amusements (including pinball) to military bases in Hawaii (later rebranding with the contraction of SErvice GAmes).

I knew they were a coin-op company, and they were founded as a collab between Japanese and American businessmen, but I didn't go super far into the specifics because the original quote doesn't either, lol.

It's just meant to make the point that Atari was the only one of the HUGE 70s/80s video game companies to start solely from video games rather than some other industry. As in, they're the first PROPER video game company rather than a general entertainment company that diversified into video games.

 

And yeah, historically speaking the only other huge 80s names I can think of that were explicitly founded as "video game companies" are Activision and Capcom, with the former basically being an offshoot of Atari.

I love their work, but Taito, Namco, Konami, Nintendo, Sega, SNK, Midway, Williams, etc. all started in industries other than vidya.

Edited December 31, 2023 by Warboss Gegguz

[zzip]

2 hours ago, Warboss Gegguz said:

Lunar Lander Beyond looks like a really good step in the right direction in terms of production value and promotion, so that's good... It's just a shame I hate Lunar Lander.

But again, it's a giant leap from the original Lunar Lander, and "Lunar Lander" itself is a generic title.   Atari would probably do better fleshing out the "Star Raiders" universe and this game might have been made to fit in there.

 

 

[Warboss Gegguz]

28 minutes ago, zzip said:

But again, it's a giant leap from the original Lunar Lander, and "Lunar Lander" itself is a generic title.   Atari would probably do better fleshing out the "Star Raiders" universe and this game might have been made to fit in there.

 

 

I mean I'd personally like to see Solarus revived if we're talking titles that could easily be modernized.

Flesh out the strategic element by having a more active AI counter-force on the board and making planet and base placements more procedural/random while making the space combat closer to something like Star Fox or even Ace Combat. 

Sort of like Star Fox 2 or even Battlezone Gold to an extent.

 

I think the struggle with star raiders is that you'd end up making a full on space strategy sim, and those are kind of niche.

And note, that's coming from someone who like RTS and TBS games (my name is my 40K character ffs, lol). They just are very niche.

Edited December 31, 2023 by Warboss Gegguz