It's probably easier to convince a brick wall to try out Atari's games than most modern gamer's

[Giles N]

I’ll admit - as to movie preferences that Oppenheimer may come as an outright shocker.

 

If Oppenheimer had been so bloody awesome, we should’ve seen «Oppenheimer 4: the Ultimate Revenge» by now…

 

Get that one. 

Audience’s come a long, long way in tastes since the days of Schindler…

 

 

[Giles N]

34 minutes ago, zzip said:

Studio heads, and the media outlets that try to stay on their good side will run with the narriative that "well gee, consumer preferences must have changed, can't possibly be us putting out bad content!". 

I don’t see how such an attitude can help boost economy or increase popularity… Such an attitude would be more like living in denial: if it’s still the classics - mostly made in a fairly classical manner -,  that make money, perhaps they better scrible down some notes and face reality if they’re loosing massive amounts of money, and put out good movies, done right - just adding better effects and eye-candy(better visuals, backdrops, more realism or more artful designs)

 

Well, on the good side of that - If Warner goes down and have to sell off IP, perhaps we could get some Atari/Midway classics back on Atari compilations etc 😁…

Edited January 4 by Giles N

[+Stephen]

41 minutes ago, Giles N said:

if they’re loosing massive amounts of money, and put out good movies, done right

Instead of endless reboots, sequels running to the double digits, remakes to appeal to the woke crowds, etc?  I can't imagine why revenue from shit like that would be down.  Let the studios burn.

[Giles N]

14 minutes ago, Stephen said:

I can't imagine why revenue from shit like that would be down.  Let the studios burn.

And if WB burns down, it’d either be a sellout of IPs or then Universal or another ‘bigger fish’ would come along and absorb it.

 

If a sell-out; classic IPs could be gotten back.

 

If Universal or another ‘giant’ would buy-all: would the new owner demand even higher prices, of be willing to sell off Warner Games and stick with the movie-stuff…

 

Guess we have to wait and see.

 

[PlutoniumPasta]

On 10/18/2023 at 9:04 AM, juansolo said:

Kids are bought Switches to play the new Mario or Zelda game on. I can't see parents buying them a 2600+.

Hey! Some of Gen Z still likes Atari. I couple of years ago I asked and got a 2600 for my birthday, if that counts!😂

[+Zeptari]

On 1/2/2024 at 9:39 PM, Living Room Arcade said:

@Warboss Gegguz  Thank you for your kind reply.  So, are you saying that you are not an employee of Atari?  And that, basically, you're just like the rest of us, just hanging out here because you love Atari games and like to talk about them with other fellow retrogamers?  I just find this hard to believe.

Why not? Has a lot to say and I'm enjoying his input here.I enjoy talking about games to fellow gamers of all ages. From my grandson to my Xbox friends in their mid sixties. 

 

19 hours ago, Living Room Arcade said:

Not trolling.  I want to ask @Albert about this when he is back from the holidays.  

About what? If Warboss is an Atari employee? Or avatar Atari flair ?

[Giles N]

8 hours ago, PlutoniumPasta said:

Hey! Some of Gen Z still likes Atari. I couple of years ago I asked and got a 2600 for my birthday, if that counts!😂

What’s your opinion on their modern games?

 

Would you recommend them to your pals/friends? Would they be interested in either old or new Atari games?

[zzip]

14 hours ago, Stephen said:

I can't imagine why revenue from shit like that would be down.  Let the studios burn.

And Warner has the "Coyote vs Acme" movie which is complete, is supposedly hilarious and has very high audience scores from test screenings.  And yet Warner decided not to release it and use it as a tax write-off instead...

 

 

Edited January 5 by zzip

[theboyfromanotherplanet]

6 hours ago, zzip said:

And Warner has the "Coyote vs Acme" movie which is complete, is supposedly hilarious and has very high audience scores from test screenings.  And yet Warner decided not to release it and use it as a tax write-off instead...

 

 

Wow. I didn't know that practice was even a 'thing'. Not the first time they've done it either: Batgirl, Scoob, Superman Lives

[Shaggy the Atarian]

On 1/3/2024 at 10:25 AM, zzip said:

Also when was the $1 million figure quoted?   Before latest Warner-Discovery merger?     There's been reports in the last month that Warner has a 60% chance of going bankrupt,  that could make selling off assets such as AG/Midway/Williams more likely.

Yeah, pre-Discovery. I remember reading about them wanting to sell of pieces of their music catalog and such, but they were wanting premiums. Ultimately it depends on the people (lawyers and managers) looking to trim fat and what they think they can get for it. I heard they also want to sell off DC Comics since the comic side has completely collapsed, but either way, things are not great over there. My guess is they will push for that Paramount merger if the feds let them.

 

How much and how they'll sell it depends on various factors, such as what they think its worth, who is interested, etc. Why fire sell it if you think Microsoft or EA will pay you 10x what its actually worth? A fire sale can happen if there are no buyers initially but then you could also end up with a situation where IPs are sold off piecemeal. Maybe Atari could afford to grab some of those, but I think the possibility of it all ending up fractured are pretty high in that case.  

 

2 hours ago, theboyfromanotherplanet said:

Wow. I didn't know that practice was even a 'thing'. Not the first time they've done it either: Batgirl, Scoob, Superman Lives

To be fair, those were reportedly utter crap  

 

Making a movie has most of your costs wrapped up in the three production phases - that's where you can spend $100m~$300m before the film even gets to theaters. If it goes to test screenings and audiences hate it, you can either go back and reshoot & edit it (a process that does cost millions), or you can cut your losses and get it as a tax write-off. Keep in mind that forging ahead with a turd is a big risk to lose even more money, as you have to spend usually half of your production budget on marketing - then theaters also have to get a big percentage of the cut. 

 

This is why a $300m movie needs something closer to $900m just to break even. 

 

If Disney was being run by competent people, most of their 2023 slate should've been shelved, but I guess they really enjoy burning investor money after losing $1B on their flops last year. Warner isn't in a better situation, also losing billions from their failed streaming efforts.

[zzip]

37 minutes ago, Shaggy the Atarian said:

Why fire sell it if you think Microsoft or EA will pay you 10x what its actually worth?

Sure you'll hold out for the highers bidder, but what are the chances of EA wanting stuff like Marble Madness and Joust when they've already got a pile of their own legacy IP that they do nothing with?   Maybe Microsoft does something with the old Activision IP,  but I doubt it.  Just seems like it isn't worth the time for these big companies' time to do anything with, but they buy it up and hold onto just in case..    Maybe WB will greenlight "Paperboy The Movie" so they can write it off as a tax break later 

[Shaggy the Atarian]

5 minutes ago, zzip said:

Sure you'll hold out for the highers bidder, but what are the chances of EA wanting stuff like Marble Madness and Joust when they've already got a pile of their own legacy IP that they do nothing with?   Maybe Microsoft does something with the old Activision IP,  but I doubt it.  Just seems like it isn't worth the time for these big companies' time to do anything with, but they buy it up and hold onto just in case..    Maybe WB will greenlight "Paperboy The Movie" so they can write it off as a tax break later 

Just using a deep pocket as an example, not saying that EA specifically has any interest in the Midway/Atari IP - although EA Sports probably would want Midway's stuff like NBA Jam and NFL Blitz if they could grab it.

 

While it might not seem like there's any interest, keep in mind that every big company has people working there who were fans of all sorts of arcade games. So if anyone in the management catches wind of something like Mortal Kombat or Paperboy being on sale, then they would call purchasing and tell them to place a bid.   

[PlutoniumPasta]

16 hours ago, Giles N said:

What’s your opinion on their modern games?

 

Would you recommend them to your pals/friends? Would they be interested in either old or new Atari games?

I've been enjoying the Recharged series. I got Centipede recharged on my Xbox, and Asteroids along with Yar's Recharged on my VCS. A friend of mine got Black Widow Recharged and he thinks it's great. Overall Atari's modern games are really good a few of my friends enjoy them a lot, I even got my younger brother playing some recharged games. One of my friends is even looking into buying the VCS so he can have a bit of a modern introduction to Atari products. I would most definitely recommend them the Recharged games.

 

As for older games, they still appeal to a lot of younger people in my generation. My younger brother enjoys playing 2600 games, and some of my friends love going to old game stores and buying rare or classic 2600 games. Flashback consoles are pretty good too, I gave a buddy of mine a Flashback 8 a couple of years ago and he's been going nuts on Missile Command. Another friend of mine uses Stella and emulates Atari games on her PC. So I can say with confidence that Atari still appeals to a lot of kids in Gen Z, but I think that most kids have never played any Atari games, and either don't know how or don't really care to. I can't speak for everyone in my generation though, it still feels like most kids can only go as far as the NES when it comes to retro games, and anything before that is nonexistent. 

 

As for me though, I've always been a really big fan of Atari, I got a Flashback 8 when I was 11 and started getting into cartridge collecting when I was 12 and haven't stop since. I eventually bought a VCS a few years ago to see if it was any good. While the VCS isn't perfect of course, it's a pretty good for what it is, and I've been enjoying some of the indie games it offers.

[juansolo]

On 1/4/2024 at 8:36 PM, zzip said:

It was claimed by some financial analyst

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies/warner-bros-heading-towards-bankruptcy-financial-analyst-claims/ar-AA1lyK6T

 

The claim is controversial, so take it with a grain of salt

 

But if it did happen, I assume it would affect everything owned by Warner Bros/Discovery, and assets would be sold off.   If that were to happen, it might be a chance to get the arcade IP on the cheap at a bankruptcy auction,  depending on how many parties were interested.

 

But there also have been reports that Warner is interested in buying Paramount,  not a likely move for a company on the verge of bankruptcy.

I'm not sure it's that controversial, they're still sat on a staggering amount of debt and they haven't had a good time of late.

 

Covid shook Hollywood and they all clamoured to streaming, all trying to be the next Netflix. They saturated the market with too many services and filled those services with shovelware. They've all been churning out 'products' as fast as they can with seemingly no quality control. Add to that a massive paradigm shift in the industry over the last ten years away from entertainment and story telling, and towards activism for social change. It's blatant now, but the signs can be seen as far back as before Marvel and Lucasfilm were bought by Disney, so they can't be held entirely to blame for that. But where it might be popular in California, the box office backs up that the rest of the world just isn't interested and they've driven once rabid fanbases of what were once too big to fail IPs into apathy. The final nail in the coffin was the writers and actor's strikes happening at possibly the worst time ever for the industry as they were in a massive decline.

 

The entertainment industry is on fire right now. No one goes to the cinema, streaming is in a shambles, games release as broken empty messes and they still expect people to buy their products. Thing is, they're not any more. The customers have had enough of poor products that don't entertain. No one gets excited for the new releases regardless of the former strength of the IPs. They've just been burned so many times they don't care any more and have lost interest. The industry is in real trouble at the moment. The fact that they're continuing on this tradjectory and not course correcting is staggering to me. If they're about making money you'd think they'd give people what they want... But then I suspect all the actual talent has long since left the industry and gone elsewhere or has retired. Sometimes voluntarily many times not the way things have been going.

 

On the plus side we have independents and the rest of the world. Both in games, movies and TV. Embrace manga, anime and world cinema. There's a lot of good stuff out there. Scandi thillers with sweater wearing aspergic cops are second to none. I'm at the stage where I feel that Hollywood and the AAA games industry needs to fail and crash. Just to reset the industry and get them back to producing actual entertainment.

 

EDIT: Oh and bring back physical media. I know you're trying to make it so everything you buy you never own, all to push their streaming movie/TV/game services. But to just completely erase the physical media market was stupid as there are plenty of stubborn old bastards like me who want to buy your products physically so I can play/watch them whenever I like in the highest possible quality. We're not, and have never been interesting in renting. You're just pushing people back to piracy.

Edited January 6 by juansolo

[CapitanClassic]

 

I would be fine with movies/ games / books as a service if copyright lasted a reasonable amount of time.

[Giles N]

22 hours ago, Shaggy the Atarian said:

Why fire sell it if you think Microsoft or EA will pay you 10x what its actually worth?

Get the point, but what big interest would Microsoft or EA have in using such IP-list (As Atari-Midway games)

EA perhaps. Not sure what Microsoft would do with that, except just licensing the stuff to others? Which companies could conceivably have an interest in keeping these games alive…?

 

How desperate would Warner have to get to sell it off?

 

What would the entire catalogue cost?

 

If they want $1M for a game-IP (or was it licensing), we’d end up seeing a fairly high sum of money if someone would want to go buy-all…
 

 

[JPF997]

7 minutes ago, Giles N said:

Get the point, but what big interest would Microsoft or EA have in using such IP-list (As Atari-Midway games)

EA perhaps. Not sure what Microsoft would do with that, except just licensing the stuff to others? Which companies could conceivably have an interest in keeping these games alive…?

 

How desperate would Warner have to get to sell it off?

 

What would the entire catalogue cost?

 

If they want $1M for a game-IP (or was it licensing), we’d end up seeing a fairly high sum of money if someone would want to go buy-all…
 

 

This thread is still going? This one wasn't one of my finest (imo)  wish I could just delete the threads I no  longer care for.

[Cris1997XX]

Well, that's what happens when you complain about "modern gamers" and their "weird tastes"...

[Giles N]

13 minutes ago, JPF997 said:

This thread is still going? This one wasn't one of my finest (imo)  wish I could just delete the threads I no  longer care for.

It was my speculation in how much it would cost to bring back the old games that tripped you over edge 😉😁??

 

Sorry ‘bout that. But when you in ten years time, look back upon you starting this thread (and with that possibly triggered the downfall of WB, triple-A games industry and Hollywood), remember I also threw in some questions here and there how younger gamers and/or classic-gamers likes Atari’s new stuff…

 

😁

 

 

Edited January 6 by Giles N

[Giles N]

14 minutes ago, JPF997 said:

This thread is still going? This one wasn't one of my finest (imo)

… take comfort then, that if a merely medicre thread of yours, still keeps opinions heated, and through simple side-effects thus brings down Hollywood and AAA-games-industry in one move; dream what you then can accomplish writing out your finest Thread-opening post…?

 

 

[Shaggy the Atarian]

3 hours ago, Giles N said:

Get the point, but what big interest would Microsoft or EA have in using such IP-list (As Atari-Midway games)

EA perhaps. Not sure what Microsoft would do with that, except just licensing the stuff to others? Which companies could conceivably have an interest in keeping these games alive…?

 

How desperate would Warner have to get to sell it off?

 

What would the entire catalogue cost?

 

If they want $1M for a game-IP (or was it licensing), we’d end up seeing a fairly high sum of money if someone would want to go buy-all…
 

 

Well, that's what I said in my last comment. Arcade IP has subjective value to it but that depends on the people at the company. For consumers, there are examples out there that tend to be very loud online but when it comes to sales, no arcade reboot/remake is getting even close to outselling any of the top 10 games that sell in any given year. Which gets back at your original lament for this thread but its just the reality - a giant swath of consumers does not share our passion or nostalgia for games that are 30, 40 years old. I see that week-in and week out at my arcade. Retro games never, ever get close to making as much money as something that is brand new.

 

To your question about EA/MS and why they would be interested in old IP, again, I was just pulling a couple of big money examples out of the hat, making the point that even though its old IP and most of it probably isn't worth that much by selves, there are companies out there who may be willing to spend big bucks for the whole thing, if the opportunity presented itself. I don't know how much Warner might ask nor what a buyer might be willing to pay for any of that, as that would require some deep market research. But are there people all throughout the game industry who has good memories of stuff like Area 51, NBA Jam, SF Rush, Mortal Kombat, etc? Sure.

 

It's just that these brands and games, with a couple of exceptions, haven't been relevant to the games business in many years. Sure, that affects the value of the IP and should drive it down, but you're talking about a huge studio who does more than make games and routinely deals in billions of dollars - I don't think that this catalog would be much of a priority for them either way. Pull out an IP like MK and you probably could only sell the whole thing for a few-several million dollars, which is nothing in Hollywood. In the best case scenario for them, lets say it was $100m - that would still not pull them out of the hole that they are currently in. 

 

 

 

[juansolo]

7 hours ago, Shaggy the Atarian said:

It's just that these brands and games, with a couple of exceptions, haven't been relevant to the games business in many years. Sure, that affects the value of the IP and should drive it down, but you're talking about a huge studio who does more than make games and routinely deals in billions of dollars - I don't think that this catalog would be much of a priority for them either way. Pull out an IP like MK and you probably could only sell the whole thing for a few-several million dollars, which is nothing in Hollywood. In the best case scenario for them, lets say it was $100m - that would still not pull them out of the hole that they are currently in.

Indeed. I believe WB are sat on something in the region of $50bn of debt. They have way bigger problems.