Crystal clear HDMI video output LumaCode

[Jfcatari]

I just ran across this:

 

https://github.com/c0pperdragon/LumaCode/wiki/GTIAdigitizer-(for-Atari-8bit)

 

Along with this project:

https://github.com/hoglet67/RGBtoHDMI/

 

Anyone test one of these out?

 

 

[c1ph3rpunk]

No but oddly I just saw this video on it today.

 

 

[Jfcatari]

I saw the same and did some digging deeper. 

 

I knew about the RGBtoHDMI project which had adapters for the ST and Amiga.

 

[Forrest]

Saw this today. Total cost is $39+$55+$15 = $109+shipping

[reifsnyderb]

Pretty easy doing such an upgrade in 60 seconds when the screws are already out.

[Beeblebrox]

See existing thread

 

 

[+scorpio_ny]

9 hours ago, Forrest said:

Saw this today. Total cost is $39+$55+$15 = $109+shipping

Just a bit of correction on this. The GTIAdizer, as far as I know, is only available from the C0pperdragon's Tindie site. Shipping is $25 from Austria to the US. He also sells a less expensive version of the RGBtoHDMI device made specially for this project. That is $40. So the price is:

 

$39 GTIA Digitaizer

$40 RGBtoHDMI Mono and Lumacode

$25 Shipping

$104 Total without Raspberry Pi Zero (add $15 and domestic shipping)

 

This is still in line line with the current pricing for similar upgrades. And it is cheaper to get if you add this to multiple Atari computers since you need to multiply the GTIAdigitizer quantity. 

[Forrest]

Thanks for the update. A Raspberry Pi Zero W costs $15 and is widely available.

 

Microcenter is has it on sale for $9.99, but you can only get 1 at that price.

Edited October 29, 2023 by Forrest

[+scorpio_ny]

Another thing to note, while this works really well, it is still in the early stages of development. It has been discovered that there are a very small amount of programs that may show some display issues depending on the techniques used to create the display. And there may be some more in the future. While the firmware is being updated to fix the issues the, the device is not set up be field upgradable by current design. Also, developer's is reluctant at this time to send out his updates to protect his IP. Additionally, sending the device back to be upgraded by the developer is very expensive due to shipping and tariffs. The developer is willing to work with the customer if there is a major issue that requires it to be swapped out.  I wanted to put that out there so it would figure in someone's calculations and set the expectations in case if they want acquire it at this stage or wait later until is fully refined.

 

I will mention this and some other things on the main thread of this device.

[_The Doctor__]

Yeah he pre de-soldered, pre removed screws, pre straightened tangs, etc pre snipped output connector center pin and alligator clips it....

unified lamification

[+mytek]

On 10/29/2023 at 6:38 AM, scorpio_ny said:

Just a bit of correction on this. The GTIAdizer, as far as I know, is only available from the C0pperdragon's Tindie site. Shipping is $25 from Austria to the US. He also sells a less expensive version of the RGBtoHDMI device made specially for this project. That is $40. So the price is:

 

$39 GTIA Digitaizer

$40 RGBtoHDMI Mono and Lumacode

$25 Shipping

$104 Total without Raspberry Pi Zero (add $15 and domestic shipping)

 

This is still in line line with the current pricing for similar upgrades. And it is cheaper to get if you add this to multiple Atari computers since you need to multiply the GTIAdigitizer quantity. 

What makes this even better than a Sophia 2 is that although the cost is similar for one computer...  since only the GTIAdigitizer board needs to be duplicated per computer, you're looking at only $40 per computer thereafter. The external stuff is associated with the monitor and is a one time purchase. Pretty cool design

[Beeblebrox]

Imho Sophia 2 still makes more sense to invest more or less the same amount of money in a purchase because it is a complete replacement for the aging 40+ year old gtia chip.

 

Given the failure rate for gtia chips it just makes sense. Any machine I've installed a Sophia 2 in I always keep stock video out in place so I have the choice of DVI or din5, so it works for me. 

 

It's great there is another digital alternative but I would still say given the two options come in at around the same price bracket, for the reasons above Sophia 2 makes more sense imho. 

 

I've a pile of dead or partially failing gtia chips on my workstation. A sad sight. 

[+scorpio_ny]

1 hour ago, Beeblebrox said:

Imho Sophia 2 still makes more sense to invest more or less the same amount of money in a purchase because it is a complete replacement for the aging 40+ year old gtia chip.

I would agree if only the Sophia chip was more readily available at a more reasonable cost. At last count, the Sophia chips were being sold for $150 each and are still unavailable.

[Beeblebrox]

4 hours ago, scorpio_ny said:

I would agree if only the Sophia chip was more readily available at a more reasonable cost. At last count, the Sophia chips were being sold for $150 each and are still unavailable.

Agreed, although it looks like $150 vs $125 for the gtia digitizer after shipping. 

I am in the UK and buy direct from it's creator Simius in Poland, which costs £90 ($110), including postage, it's easy to install,  is integrated with u1mb, and you don't need to worry about sourcing a new gtia chip anywhere down the line. (Simius is hopefully on track for a new batch this year.) 

 

Edit: worth noting to source a pal gtia over here is tricky. They don't come up very often and when they do thry are expensive. Or you have to buy break up another A8 to salvage it, where even then the gtia you are hoping to salvage may have failed. 

 

Anyways, not wanting to hijack or undermine this other new alternative.  I may be tempted to get one to test it out when available.

Edited November 1, 2023 by Beeblebrox
Adding extra info

[+mytek]

13 hours ago, Beeblebrox said:

It's great there is another digital alternative but I would still say given the two options come in at around the same price bracket, for the reasons above Sophia 2 makes more sense imho.

Even for one computer the LumaCode system is cheaper, and if you wish to equip two or more there is a substantial cost savings.

 

The key difference when wanting to have more than one computer with better video, is that the LumaCode system only requires a single monitor to have the video decoding/output electronics attached to it, and then install the LumaCode video encoder (GTIAdigitizer) into each computer at $39 a pop. Here's the break-down for two computers to have HDMI/DVI video...

 

Sophia 2 for two computers: $150 each x 2   Total = $300

 

LumaCode System for two computers: GTIAdigitizer $39 each x 2 = $78 + one Decoder Electronic package including Rpi Zero = $55   Total = $133

 

To reiterate: For each additional computer it's only $39 a pop for the GTIAdigitizer. No need to duplicate the decoding electronics unless you wish to have more than one dedicated monitor. Because of the 2-wire nature of the LumaCode output, it would be a simple matter to have a selection switch for multiple computer feeds to that single monitor.

 

Obviously there is postage that needs to be added for both products.

 

8 hours ago, Beeblebrox said:

...you don't need to worry about sourcing a new gtia chip anywhere down the line.

Well for me that's never been an issue unless I did something to blow up the GTIA chip, something that was inadvertently happening when I was doing initial development on the 576NUC+. Normally I've never had a reason to replace a GTIA.

 

EDIT: We mustn't forget that the Sophia 2's video output connector can be quite an issue in order to provide a nice clean exit point from the computer, whereas the LumaCode system simple takes advantage of an already existing connector.

[Beeblebrox]

Thanks Mytek. 

 

I was just going on the quoted $115+ for the gtia digitizer and all the bits. Didn't appreciate the multiple A8 aspect you speak of.

 

In terms of gtia pal chips I have a good number of stock A8's pass through my hands to fix and a high proportion of them have dead or failing gtia chips. As per the reasons I listed, sourcing a gtia pal chip in the uk is tricky and/or very costly. So it was nice to have a modern alternative to a gtia chip in the form of Sophia 2.  Gtia chips on 800s appear to have a very high failure rate. 

 

Funnily enough my other fav video upgrade is your UGV (which has the gtia piggy backing it), mainly because it's dirt cheap, (£24.99) and readily available. 

 

For me I which there was a modern cheap replacement for antic and gtia pal chips. By far the 40pin chips I find have a high failure rate whenever I receive an A8, are cpu, gtia, pokey and antic, in that order. (Where other chips to fail obviously being ram and os as the lost common to fail). 

[+mytek]

7 minutes ago, Beeblebrox said:

For me I which there was a modern cheap replacement for antic and gtia pal chips. By far the 40pin chips I find have a high failure rate whenever I receive an A8, are cpu, gtia, pokey and antic, in that order. (Where other chips to fail obviously being ram and os as the lost common to fail). 

I wonder if there were batch issues with the PAL GTIA chips when manufactured that have limited their lifetime to something much shorter than the NTSC versions? I also have about 4 PAL GTIA and Antic chips on hand some of which found their way into some of my early XEL, XLD, and 576NUC+ prototypes, but I never used them in this mode for very long. So because of that and the fact that they were NOS parts I haven't seen any of those go bad either. Speaking of NOS, I got most of my PAL parts by buying CPU boards meant for PAL 400/800 computers from BEST Electronics. These were being sold at such a good price, that you could get a Sally, GTIA, and Antic for probably a 40% discount as compared to buying the chips individually. I think Brad soon figured that out, and has since raised the price

[Beeblebrox]

1 hour ago, mytek said:

I wonder if there were batch issues with the PAL GTIA chips when manufactured that have limited their lifetime to something much shorter than the NTSC versions? I also have about 4 PAL GTIA and Antic chips on hand some of which found their way into some of my early XEL, XLD, and 576NUC+ prototypes, but I never used them in this mode for very long. So because of that and the fact that they were NOS parts I haven't seen any of those go bad either. Speaking of NOS, I got most of my PAL parts by buying CPU boards meant for PAL 400/800 computers from BEST Electronics. These were being sold at such a good price, that you could get a Sally, GTIA, and Antic for probably a 40% discount as compared to buying the chips individually. I think Brad soon figured that out, and has since raised the price

Up till recently I was buying pal 400/800 cpu boards from myatari in the States. These are all shipped with a pal antic, pal cpu and a marked dead/bad pal gtia. 

 

However mainly because of the shipping between the States and UK it wasn't economical. I get most of the pal gtia chips I've needed by salvaging them and other chips from mainly 800pxl pcbs as far easier to remove than from XE a8s. (These donor pcbs are usually plagued with many other issues.). Even better if I have a Hong Kong fully socketed board. 

 

I've also recently managed to populate the ntsc cpu boards (those which have the areas on the board for pal colourburst, caps, resistors, 74ls74, etc) to covert them to pal. Still, these need pal gtia and pal antic chips swapped in. I have quite a few working ntsc gtia and antics, but getting a buyer over here in the UK for them is pretty unlikely. 

 

Worth nothing very often I might think a gtia chip is OK, but soon find it is in the process of failing. (I have a series of games and demos I use to test and weed out those ones teetering on the brink of failing). 

 

At some stage I'll take a hi res pic of all the failed gtia chips I've amassed, just to show which manufacturer/where they were made, etc. 

 

 

Edited November 1, 2023 by Beeblebrox

[_The Doctor__]

those bad pal gtia pcb's normally just needs the common fix that twiddles the bit, it's the chips that had the defect and and the common fix is written up... the chips work fine thereafter.

[Beeblebrox]

I am not sure. I wish that were the case. Are you referring to Gtia fixers like the ones Tf_hh designed which go in the gtia socket and the gtia piggybacks it? 

 

There is a reason I don't think the majority of my 'dead/failing' pile of pal gtia chips are those known factory defect chips. That is that most either worked fine and then started either partially failing/have completely failed, or they are from 800s. I don't think the majority of the dead/failing pal ones I have are part of the known factory defective batch that say, were released with some 800XEs bits, because most of mine come from 800s and some from 800xls. I think the known bad pal factory batch gtia chips only made it to the XE line in the later runs of the A8. (Correct me if I am wrong here).

 

AFAIK this just the normal thing with these old chips. Gtia chips fail and or die, like any other custom Atari 40 chip, (ie.Sally, Antic, Pokey), for whatever reason. 

 

Funnily enough I had a delivery of a 130xe yesterday. Instantly on booting up I had weirdness, freezing/crashing in basic, no reast prompt, weird graphical glitches/crashig when using my sys check, etc. I opened it up and found a previous owner had socketed the gtia chip so naturally it was the first thing I did, pop another gtia I had in. 

 

Instantly all the initial freezing, etc went away and sys check looked fine, memory and os tests ran and we're clear. Side3 worked and games like prince of Persia and Albert all worked. 

 

What is interesting is the only spare gtia chip I had was a pal gtia that came from ebay's MyAtari's pal 800 cpu boards which as I mentioned earlier are all sold with bad gtias. So having popped this 'bad' pal gtia into the 130xe and games like pop and Albert running fine, I loaded up atariblast!, and whilst it plays, you get graphical glitches with any gtia mode graphics in-game. 

 

I tend to use the games Albert and Atariblast! I combo to test gtia chips between the two you'll quickly see if the gtia is OK or not. 

 

What I could do is invest in one of th_hh's gtia fixer pcbs and test all failing pal gtia chips I have. It would be great if they all worked, but I suspect not. Certainly some won't even allow an image on screen. 

 

Thanks for the suggestion though.

 

 

[Geister]

I'd be more interested in this if it also offered an 80 (or 120) column mode in addition to a simple screen cleanup.  

[invisible kid]

I like this idea. This wouldn't also generate artifacting would it? I know it's not a popular feature, I'm just curious.

[+scorpio_ny]

2 hours ago, Geister said:

I'd be more interested in this if it also offered an 80 (or 120) column mode in addition to a simple screen cleanup.  

No 80 columns. All it is doing is reading the signals of the GTIA to produce a very clean picture to HDMI.

[Geister]

4 hours ago, invisible kid said:

I like this idea. This wouldn't also generate Artifacting would it? I know it's not a popular feature, I'm just curious.

If you mean the 80 columns, no, it wouldn't cause any artifacting because it's HDMI.  Artifacting was cause by the original video signal being near the edge of the ability of an analog monitor's display capabilities.

 

The PI 2 has the capability of putting out 80 (or more) columns natively.  Turning it into an 80 column display for the Atari is just a matter of working out a communications protocol between the two systems and sending the data for display.

[invisible kid]

Well I meant if you were playing a game that used Basic Graphics Mode 8 if it would also produce artifact colors. I am assuming/guessing no.