2600 Atari 2600 related test results (not 7800!)

[Thomas Jentzsch]

5 minutes ago, remowilliams said:

4f618c2429138e0280969193ed6c107e *robot.bin

That's a known, auto detected ROM, so Stella should run it without any problems.

 

The Real-Time Stella project is currently heavily investigation into FE. Timing seems very crucial, so maybe the hardware used for this game is slightly different.

5 minutes ago, remowilliams said:

I see that running the first half of the FE Robot Tank dump in Stella results in a rolling 'Switching to Reserve Tank'

Is that different to what you see with the 2600+?

[+remowilliams]

10 minutes ago, Thomas Jentzsch said:

Is that different to what you see with the 2600+?

 

Yes, the 2600+ does a rolling display of this:

 

 

The R77 does the rolling 'Switching to Reserve Tank'

[chad5200]

4 minutes ago, remowilliams said:

 

Yes, the 2600+ does a rolling display of this:

I see the same thing that Remo sees.  It is not the same as the rolling "Switching to Reserve Tank".

 

Here is my picture:

[scifidude79]

Here are my results. In all, 63 cartridges tested, my whole collection. As far as I know, they're all NTSC, as I bought them all from US Ebay sellers. 50 of the cartridges were from an "as is" lot that I got from a seller when I got my Retron 77. Five of those have never worked on the Retron 77, so I never knew if they were bad cartridges or if it was the system, I know now that it was the system. Here's the list:

 

3-D Tic-Tac-Toe

Armored Ambush

Asteroids

Astroblast

Barnstorming

Basic Math*

Basic Programming

Basketball

Battlezone

Beany Bopper

Bermuda Triangle

Berzerk

Bowling

Breakout

Bugs

California Games

Casino

Centipede

Championship Soccer

Chopper Command

Coconuts

Combat

Crystal Castles

Demons to Diamonds

Dig Dug

Dodge ‘Em

Dolphin

Donkey Kong

Donkey Kong Jr.

E.T. The Extra Terrestrial

Eggomania

Flag Capture*

Frogger

Frogs and Flies

G.I. Joe Cobra Strike

Galaxian

Gangster Alley

Gorf

Grand Prix

Home Run

Human Cannonball

Infiltrate

Joust

Jungle Hunt

Kaboom!

Lock ‘N’ Chase

M.A.D.

Maze

Ms. Pac-Man

Pac-Man

Pole Position

Popeye*

Q*bert

Racquetball

RealSports Football

Revenge of the Beefstake Tomatoes

Space Invaders

Speedway II*

Star Trek Strategic Operations Simulator

Star Wars: The Empire Strikes Back

Street Racer

Super Challenge Baseball

The Activision Decathlon*

 

Those are all vintage cartridges. I haven't even tried the 10-in-1 that came with the system, (I really should do that) so any games that are on that and on the list above are ones that I owned, as only the vintage carts were tested. Of the 63 carts listed, there were no rejections. Every cartridge worked, and I played a little of each game. The five with Asterisks (*) next to them are the five that never worked on the Retron 77. (not Q*bert, he just has an asterisk in his name) They all work here. Some carts needed cleaned, but everything worked eventually. Donkey Kong and Donkey Kong Jr. are both the Coleco carts, since I saw someone mentioned issues with those.

 

I also have a bunch of controllers that I tested:

 

vintage Paddles

Atari Flashback 50 Paddles

Atari Flashback 50 P1 and P2 controllers

An older Atari Flashback controller

Hyperkin Trooper

Hyperkin Ranger

 

I had no issues with any of those controllers, except for the vintage Paddles. They weren't jittery, like they are when they need cleaned, but anything I controlled with them moved too quickly across the screen. Atari flashback 50 paddles worked normally, so I don't know what was up with that. The Hyperkin Ranger worked in both stick and paddle modes. The Atari Flashback 50 controllers both acted normally, the system mostly ignored the extra buttons for controlling the system on the P1 controller. At first, the button on the older Flashback controller didn't want to work, but then it was fine. For all of the controllers except for the two Hyperkin ones with long cables, I found a 9-pin controller extension cable to be invaluable, since I was gaming on a 55" TV.

Edited December 2, 2023 by scifidude79
I forgot to count the game that was in the console

[chad5200]

27 minutes ago, scifidude79 said:

They all work here. Some carts needed cleaned, but everything worked eventually. Donkey Kong and Donkey Kong Jr. are both the Coleco carts, since I saw someone mentioned issues with those.

I really wish someone could figure out why some white shelled Coleco Donkey Kong Junior's work... and others don't.

 

Here's another piece of info... the same white shelled Coleco Donkey Kong Junior that does not work in the Atari 2600+ also does not work in the Retron 77 (with community Stella 6.6 update).  However, it works great in the real classic 2600.

 

Is there something I can do on the Retron 77 to debug this cartridge or at least see a log of what it sees?  @Thomas Jentzsch

 

 

[scifidude79]

3 minutes ago, chad5200 said:

I really wish someone could figure out why some white shelled Coleco Donkey Kong Junior's work... and others don't.

 

Here's another piece of info... the same white shelled Coleco Donkey Kong Junior that does not work in the Atari 2600+ also does not work in the Retron 77 (with community Stella 6.6 update).  However, it works great in the real classic 2600.

 

Is there something I can do on the Retron 77 to debug this cartridge or at least see a log of what it sees?  @Thomas Jentzsch

 

 

Yeah, that's really weird. I have no idea why mine works, but it always has, even on the Retron 77. It worked originally and I finally upgraded the firmware on my 77 the other day, just to see if any of the games that weren't working on it would work. But, I never had any issues with Donkey Kong Jr. I'm happy for that, because that's a cartridge I intentionally bought, not part of that 50 cartridge lot that I bought.

[Thomas Jentzsch]

6 hours ago, chad5200 said:

Is there something I can do on the Retron 77 to debug this cartridge or at least see a log of what it sees?  @Thomas Jentzsch

Don't think so. When the dump fails, Stella is not even getting started. When it starts, you could check Stella's log, which is available through the UI.

[chad5200]

5 hours ago, Thomas Jentzsch said:

Don't think so. When the dump fails, Stella is not even getting started. When it starts, you could check Stella's log, which is available through the UI.

That’s too bad.  Would be nice if there was a diagnostic or debug mode on the Retron 77 (and the 2600+) while the dumper is active for times like this. Would really help us get to the bottom of everything. 

[Thomas Jentzsch]

1 hour ago, chad5200 said:

That’s too bad.  Would be nice if there was a diagnostic or debug mode on the Retron 77 (and the 2600+) while the dumper is active for times like this. Would really help us get to the bottom of everything. 

The 2600+ has something like that.

 

[scifidude79]

I forgot to mention one thing from my testing. Paddle games won't work with joysticks. You can get whatever you need to move on the screen moving, but the button does nothing. I don't know if that's how the original 2600 works, but I know the Retron 77 and various emulation solutions will let you play paddle games with joysticks. (I guess that's a good thing, since the Retron 77 doesn't work right with paddles)

[Thomas Jentzsch]

14 hours ago, scifidude79 said:

I forgot to mention one thing from my testing. Paddle games won't work with joysticks. You can get whatever you need to move on the screen moving, but the button does nothing. I don't know if that's how the original 2600 works, but I know the Retron 77 and various emulation solutions will let you play paddle games with joysticks. (I guess that's a good thing, since the Retron 77 doesn't work right with paddles)

Not sure why this is the case, but I suppose it is due to the way Plaion has build Stella. E.g. if it is a Libretro build, the joystick alternative for paddles is not supported.

[+mksmith]

Picked up one of these reasonably common HES action paks here in Australia - works great! I assume it's all one ROM bundled together? Once you select a game it goes straight into it.

 

[DEANJIMMY]

@tradyblix

We were in the wrong topic when talking about mechanical issues inserting certain 2600 carts in the 2600+ 😔

I got my Juno First working now by the following:

Push it in slowly with two hands until the dust door opens, then move it as far to the left as possible, then down and it works.

By normal push in, it does not work.

 

Now I just need to wait for the update to fix the colors, as mine is PAL60🤗

Edit: It only worked once😔

Edited December 4, 2023 by DEANJIMMY

[Ben from Plaion]

On 11/27/2023 at 1:51 PM, Thomas Jentzsch said:

This is the known situation, based on the ROM collection of Atarimania.com:

• Decathlon:
  • NTSC & PAL: only FE ROMs known
• Robot Tank:
  • NTSC: only FE ROM known (but yours might be F8)
  • PAL: only FE ROM known
• Space Shuttle:
  • NTSC: FE & F8 ROMs exist
  • PAL: only FE ROM known

So there was a mix of FE and F8 carts and you can never be 100% sure if yours are FE or F8. Even if only FE ROMs have been dumped so far. What would help are the dumps of the working carts, then one could verify that these are not the F8 versions. If I am not wrong, even only comparing the MD5 checksums with Stella's properties should work.

 

BTW: All HES (PAL) carts use F8 or F6.

I tried these three.

 

Two of the cartridges Robot Tank and Decathlon are Polyvox carts. Decathlon plays fine at 60Hz. Robot Tank boots but is showing that glitch same as Realsports Boxing. This Robot Tank cartridge is switching to 50hz. 

Space Shuttle plays fine it switches to 60hz.

[Thomas Jentzsch]

2 hours ago, DEANJIMMY said:

Now I just need to wait for the update to fix the colors, as mine is PAL60🤗

 

I don't think there is any fix possible, except for allowing the user to tell the system (via UI or switch). Alternatively properties could be used, but these will currently fail with most bankswitched carts. 

[TwoShedsWilson]

2 hours ago, Ben from Plaion said:

I tried these three.

 

Two of the cartridges Robot Tank and Decathlon are Polyvox carts. Decathlon plays fine at 60Hz. Robot Tank boots but is showing that glitch same as Realsports Boxing. This Robot Tank cartridge is switching to 50hz. 

Space Shuttle plays fine it switches to 60hz.

You have the coolest job.

[JetmanUK]

I tried PAL Tutankham today, works on my Woody, black screen on the Plus. Multiple cleans, will not work.

[tradyblix]

 

 

 

On 12/4/2023 at 3:47 AM, DEANJIMMY said:

@tradyblix

We were in the wrong topic when talking about mechanical issues inserting certain 2600 carts in the 2600+ 😔

I got my Juno First working now by the following:

Push it in slowly with two hands until the dust door opens, then move it as far to the left as possible, then down and it works.

By normal push in, it does not work.

 

Now I just need to wait for the update to fix the colors, as mine is PAL60🤗

Edit: It only worked once😔

Your Juno First Logo looks better than mine. Mine is kinda... glitchy. my juno first

 

My cart is not as finicky as yours. I can just jam it in no issues (not the same for other carts I have). This indicates that the "Cargo Culting" insertion behavior we are doing around carts might be specific to individual carts. Sigh. 

 

I wonder if the logo issues might be PAL related then ? I was thinking Juno First's logo was always like this and a limitation of the system as it looked like that for me even on Harmony cart. 

Edited December 6, 2023 by tradyblix
fix link

[Thomas Jentzsch]

6 hours ago, tradyblix said:

Your Juno First Logo looks better than mine. Mine is kinda... glitchy. my juno first

This looks like your TV is "optimizing" the image. Try to disable all picture "optimizations" or use a game mode if it exists.

 

The colors look wrong. That's PAL-60, right? 

[tradyblix]

The colors in the Juno first logo cycle through different colors so it depends on when you take the photograph.

 

I have it on game mode. but even if I put it on filmmaker mode which is supposed to turn all the settings off, it doesn't make a difference. it still has this kind of glitching that blinks in the logo. I mean my copy has always been like this. it was like this on the 2600 too.

 

As far as it being pal I can't imagine why it would be pal. I bought it here from atari age and I am in the US so I assumed I would get an ntsc cart. but I don't know how to tell as it doesn't say on the cart.

 

Either way the gameplay seems fine

Edited December 6, 2023 by tradyblix

[Sean_1970]

I’m not entirely happy with the fact that forty year-old carts sitting in shoe boxes need maintenance, but I decided to finally clean the contacts on my Activision carts and they all load first try now (even Robot Tank, though it’s the rolling mess described above). Not sure how I feel about not having to re-seat multiple times or the superstitious blowing into carts, but it’s kinda nice I guess 😂. In some cases the top edge was pretty clean and the bottom edge filthy, though eyeballing them you wouldn’t know.

 

My full list working (all NTSC):

 

Asteroids

Atlantis

Chopper Command

Circus Atari

Cosmic Ark

Dark Cavern

Defender

Demon Attack

Dragonfire

Enduro

Fishing Derby

Freeway

Kaboom!

Keystone Kapers

Laser Blast

Megamania

Mouse Trap

Pitfall!

River Raid

Seaquest

Space Invaders

Spider Fighter

Stampede

Star Raiders (keypad doesn’t work - known issue)

Starmaster

Super Breakout

Tutankham

Venture

 

my only totally non-working cart (not even graphical glitches, just Load Failed) is Omega Race, which is a CBS “RAM Plus” cart and apparently also a known issue.

[DEANJIMMY]

7 hours ago, Thomas Jentzsch said:

This looks like your TV is "optimizing" the image. Try to disable all picture "optimizations" or use a game mode if it exists.

 

The colors look wrong. That's PAL-60, right? 

TV is in Game Mode and as it is PAL60 the colors will be wrong, as it is detected as NTSC. For this game the colors do not matter. You only know they are wrong if you compare them.

But the connection issues in the 2600+ made it work only once.

If I remove the shell, I would get it working, I guess but who cares, for the Atarivox it stays on my Jr forever😊

BTW my old unmodded 6er gave me distorted Logo too...

Edited December 6, 2023 by DEANJIMMY

[+remowilliams]

Juno First is definitely picky here on the 2600+ and fails to load fairly often, fails are mostly black screen with an occasional load failed message.  Trying different ways of inserting the cart isn't showing any large bias in my small sample.

 

I am noticing that although the Save Key is detected (internally via Stella, no actual Save Key/Atarivox is attached to the 2600+) that no actual scores are being saved or perhaps not loaded.

 

[Aragorn7]

On 12/4/2023 at 5:57 AM, Ben from Plaion said:

Two of the cartridges Robot Tank and Decathlon are Polyvox carts.

I have the same issue but my two Robot Tank carts do not say Polyvox on them.

[Ben from Plaion]

Circus Convoy running and Realsports Boxing fixed on a new beta update.

 

 

Edited December 12, 2023 by Ben from Plaion