My unfortunate experience with Lotharek

[sideburn]

Hello all.

 

First off I want to make clear that I am not one to post rants and I have never had a bad experience in the hobby or community until now. And unfortunately it is Lotharek...

 

I feel the need to get this out in the open and get others input and opinions because all I have now is a bad taste in my mouth from a large email exchange between the two of us that ended in disaster. Thanks in advance to anyone who makes it through this long winded story...

 

It all started with the international shipping…

 

The saga began with my UltraSatan that I had purchased about 8 months prior to the incident, along with a pre-populated SD card that I purchased in order to get up and running right out of the gate without having to muck with drivers etc.

 

The device and card arrived after a few weeks or so and it worked flawlessly on my STacy for many months but then slowly started acting up and having trouble booting until it finally just died and only the green power led would turn on.

 

I tried different sd cards, I opened the device up and checked the battery and inspected the board and voltages etc. (I am tech savvy and I have repaired and sold several boards back to the community).

 

I checked the FAQ page on his website and could not find anything that stood out about what the problem could be so I resorted to sending Lotharek an email. Twice. Once from his support page and after no reply, again directly through email.

 

I described in detail what the issue was and asked him politely what I could do to repair it or get it repaired under warranty.

 

He eventually responded with basically one sentence and a link to his RMA form.

 

Here is the first email where I describe the issue and ask him for some support advice.

I never received a reply:

 

Here is the second email where I describe the issue again and ask for advice.

In this one he replies with a link to an RMA form and no support advice or links to any troubleshooting pages:

 

I proceeded to download, read and print his RMA form.

 

Here is a snapshot of his RMA form.. You can see he put is large bold red letters NOT to add a value to the item to avoid additional charges:

 

Around this time I had started to use the shipping service called “pirateship.com” and I decide to use them again for this item.

I went to the website, filled out the form and obviously did not specify a value of the parcel per his instructions.

 

I wait about a month and after not hearing anything I sent Lotharek an email asking if the item has arrived.

He tells me (for the first time) that I did not follow his instructions and the item was not accepted and sent back to the post office because they wanted him to pay a $40.00 fee.

 

I then reply that I did indeed follow his instructions and I do not know what happened.

I begin to investigate and discover that by default, Pirate Ship adds a value to the item. I made it clear to Lotharek that I would pay the fees so he can receive the item.

 

Eventually, I clear everything up with Pirate Ship and they refunded / credit me the $40.00.. I notify Lotharek that the issue was with the shipping service and he replies back arrogantly that it was not his fault and it was clearly my fault for not following his instructions (the second time he has accused me of not following instructions). Very frustrating:

 

Quote

conclusions are clear... i didnt make any mistake, You didnt follow RMA instructions.

This is now at least the second or third time he has insisted I did not follow his RMA instructions! 

 

After a few more days he replies that if I wait a week or two the fees will be waved and he will receive the item.

I replied that this is not a problem I am in no hurry and I wait a few more weeks..

 

I wait another additional week and after no response from him, I write him an email asking if the item ever arrived.

 

He replied that he did indeed received the item, repaired it, and sent me a link to a video of him doing the repair.

 

Additionally he accuses me now of not following his troubleshooting guides and I could have saved myself and him a lot of time and money if I would have followed his troubleshooting guides and programmed the firmware myself (although I would have to purchase a firmware updater from him so the savings of time and money are questionable).

 

He now for the very first time sent me a link to his troubleshooting page, a link to a programming device for me to purchase, and a link to his service page for me to pay him for servicing my device:

 

Quote

Hi

device is finally here. Video link from unpacking and testing: https://lotharek.DSCloud.biz:5001/sharing/w5JQ7UEeC

i had to pay all fee You have declared; device is 100% functional, after flashing. 

 

Please, study: https://lotharek.pl/files/USatan.pdf

 

we could save a lot of time and money if You have :

https://lotharek.pl/productdetail.php?id=344

 

Please, make an order for:

• https://lotharek.pl/productdetail.php?id=344
• https://lotharek.pl/productdetail.php?id=292
• https://lotharek.pl/productdetail.php?id=355

 

What I find interesting here is in the video (his $40.00 servicing of my device), he opens the package, tosses all of my notes describing the issue, plugs in a firmware updater and flashes the board. Fixing it within one minute as if he knew from the get go that the problem was corrupt firmware.

 

He also sends a follow up email saying that the reason the firmware was corrupt was because of pirated software on the SD card.

As if I have done this so it is my fault. Even though the card was purchased pre-populated form him:

 

Quote

To calirfy: reason for corrupting firmware is ATARI ST piracy software that BUGS inside flash of usatan and replaces some data make it unusable

At this point I am very frustrated for several reasons:

 

1) He has continued to accuse me of not following directions.

 

2) He is not honoring the warranty and blaming me for not figuring out how to fix it myself by scouring his website for some troubleshooting page.

 

3) Now the cost of shipping the item to him, paying a $40.00 service fee, buying a firmware updater and shipping it back to me will be more expensive than buying a new device outright.

 

I send him a reply saying a lot of time and money could have been saved if you would have sent me the troubleshooting information and he replies:
 

Quote

I assume my customer read my documents and follow my guides.

You have failed at least twice:

•  package value
• general troubleshooting
   

Again with the package value accusation and now another additional one...

 

My questions are these:

 

• The device was under warranty and it died… Using HIS SD card that I purchased pre-populated FROM HIM.

 

• How could a device that I simply used and it suddenly quits working be MY FAULT and not covered under warranty!?

 

• My initial email to him clearly asked him for troubleshooting information. Why did he not simply link me to a troubleshooting page?

 

In the end he decided to terminate the conversation and keep my device.

 

I would have gladly paid any fees from the shipping mishap but then to additionally charge me for his "service" and not honor the warranty, plus pay for shipping back to me and optionally purchase a firmware programmer incase this ever happens again was just too much.

 

So I am left with no device, frustration from months of dead end conversation and about $200.00 lost.

His final note to me (his fee is not $15 it is $40):
 

Quote

in my history - since 1996 - You are teh first customer totally ignored my guides and at the end, You disrespect me 

i spent 3 hours driving to get your device from customs and pay fees,  to flash it , to send approx 20 mails to You and Your problem is to pay 15 USD for my work

For me - it is end of discussion.  You gavce me lesson for future. i will never solve customes problems for next services.

I wish You allthebest and i hope You get from life, you have given me.

You deserve it !

 

 

Edited November 21, 2023 by sideburn

[troed]

Quote

reason for corrupting firmware is ATARI ST piracy software that BUGS inside flash of usatan and replaces some data make it unusable

 

That ... sounds strange.

 

Cannot see how the US firmware gets rewritten from the ST side. And even _if_ that's the case, this is where I would simply stop selling the device if I was a European business selling within Europe. Consumer protection laws will make mincemeat out of anyone trying that argument.

 

[mikro]

Well, to be fair, it was you who wanted to save money and used a questionable post carrier which complicated things (and pissed him off in the first place). Still, no excuse to his replies but if someone makes it so clear that any added value will make his life miserable... I certainly wouldn't take it as a good opportunity to use an untested service.

 

Your experience isn't unique unfortunately but imagine that 100 people per week are sending him similar emails and good 50% of them messes something up.

 

The customs offices in eastern Europe are absolute nightmare, I can relate to his anger. 😕

 

Maybe you could write him in a couple of weeks when he cools off.

[sideburn]

3 minutes ago, mikro said:

Well, to be fair, it was you who wanted to save money and used a questionable post carrier which complicated things (and pissed him off in the first place). Still, no excuse to his replies but if someone makes it so clear that any added value will make his life miserable... I certainly wouldn't take it as a good opportunity to use an untested service.

 

Your experience isn't unique unfortunately but imagine that 100 people per week are sending him similar emails and good 50% of them messes something up.

 

The customs offices in eastern Europe are absolute nightmare, I can relate to his anger. 😕

 

Maybe you could write him in a couple of weeks when he cools off.

I take the blame for not using standard postal service. And I told him i would pay the $40 fee... i tried to tell him consistently but he repeatedly kept saying i didn't follow his RMA instructions which was very frustrating.

The main issue I have here is he did not honor my warranty and then tacked on an additional $40.00 fee to refresh the device which took him literally one minute.

so $40 customs fee plus $25.00 shipping. plus $40.00 service fee plus shipping back to me. I would never have even returned the device in the first place if he wasn't going to honor the warranty.

I do not see how the device quitting working on me using the card provided by him could in any way be my fault and void th warranty.

in the end I payed him to own my device.

 

At least refund me some of the cost for the device.

[sideburn]

1 hour ago, troed said:

 

That ... sounds strange.

 

Cannot see how the US firmware gets rewritten from the ST side. And even _if_ that's the case, this is where I would simply stop selling the device if I was a European business selling within Europe. Consumer protection laws will make mincemeat out of anyone trying that argument.

 

Agreed. to me it sure seems like buggy hardware / firmware. how could a consumers sd card damage the devices firmware regardless if it were the venders pre populated card or not. How could this be my fault!? 

 

And then to say its my fault for not finding his troubleshooting guide (that are hard to find in the first place), and buying more equipment from him to be able to flash the device to repair it.. ridiculous.

Edited November 21, 2023 by sideburn

[tuf]

As with all posts like this we only get to see a single side of the story unless the other side chimes in - which then typically becomes a finger pointing match.

 

It's unfortunate your exchange went the way it did; I've had the opposite experience with Lotharek in our most recent exchange.

[sideburn]

I tried to post the exchanges as much as i could find in my email trail I want to be fully transparent. but it went on and on from september to now. 

 

There was definitely a communication breakdown.

 

His first exchanges right out of the gate were being standoffish and accusatory. I tried to be cordial and i told him i was not blaming him for anything and just wanted to make things right.

 

I have never had an issue with him either and have purchased multiple items from him over several years. it was mind boggling to me how everything went and now i do not feel like purchasing anything from him again.

 

Another example of not being able to get through to him that i did follow instructions:

 

Quote

I do not understand. I absolutely did not declare any value at all and i cut out and attached the labels form the printed RMA pdf.

 

 

On Oct 23, 2023, at 12:22 PM, Przemyslaw Krawczyk <lotharek@lotharek.pl> wrote:

please, download RMA and read it.. again

line by line....

 

 

W dniu 10/23/2023 o 9:21 PM, Tavis pisze:

oh my gosh i spent  $40.00 to ship it what instructions did I miss?

Quote

W dniu 23.10.2023 o 22:52, Tavis pisze:

Also to clarify, I never thought that YOU made a mistake. 

 

 

But I also knew that I definitely read and printed the PDF and did not put a value on the item when I purchased the shipping label.

So I had to dig deeper to find out that the value was added without me knowing.

 

 

 

On Oct 23, 2023, at 12:53 PM, Przemyslaw Krawczyk <lotharek@lotharek.pl> wrote:

 

So, You have sent me parcel as to regular customer and declared value i need to pay taxes

USPS would cost You roughly 15USD..... 

conclusions are clear... i didnt make any mistake, You didnt follow RMA instructions.

 

 

He was IMPOSSIBLE to work with....

Anyway.... water under the bridge as they say...

[351cougar]

unfortunate that the "hobby" spanning virtually the entire world, bringing people from all over into it, becomes this way. Im guessing its frustration due to every transaction , at least from his prospective , is this way. Almost all transactions he sees are problems. Fees and tarifs, crossing every state and country border, every government bureaucrat with their hand in your pocket. Ive thought several times over the years of getting some of the cool stuff I see , but then read the 3x 4x cost and that is if it even shows up at all. You also read of the "ive never had a problem" (see the 20+ years of best elect sucks posts ) but as they say your experience may vary. 

[Forrest]

It would be nice if there was a U.S. based distributor for Lotharek.

 

FYI there’s nothing shady about Pirate Ship. You get a discounted shipping rate from USPS, and the packages are shipped by USPS.

[+remowilliams]

7 hours ago, troed said:

Cannot see how the US firmware gets rewritten from the ST side. 

 

This is a known thing.  I have several (U)Satandisk devices and never had an issue with them, until I had.

 

My Ultrasatan Mini bricked itself in just daily use one day with random luck of the draw that triggered FW corruption.  After a relatively short discussion with him about this issue, I ordered an an inexpensive (DUCKBILL) ultrasatan flasher from Lotharek along with some other items, and voila - the unit was back in service after flashing.

 

 

[sideburn]

11 minutes ago, Forrest said:

It would be nice if there was a U.S. based distributor for Lotharek.

 

FYI there’s nothing shady about Pirate Ship. You get a discounted shipping rate from USPS, and the packages are shipped by USPS.

Yes pirate ship is good. The issue was they don’t handle RMA / Business international and force an insurance value on the item. I was with support on it for an hour. They credited me $40.00 (I was just never able to get lotharek to understand and stop accusing me of not following directions 😂 🤦‍♂️). 

[sideburn]

40 minutes ago, 351cougar said:

unfortunate that the "hobby" spanning virtually the entire world, bringing people from all over into it, becomes this way. Im guessing its frustration due to every transaction , at least from his prospective , is this way. Almost all transactions he sees are problems. Fees and tarifs, crossing every state and country border, every government bureaucrat with their hand in your pocket. Ive thought several times over the years of getting some of the cool stuff I see , but then read the 3x 4x cost and that is if it even shows up at all. You also read of the "ive never had a problem" (see the 20+ years of best elect sucks posts ) but as they say your experience may vary. 

I guess there’s a “customer is always wrong” policy in Poland. 

[sideburn]

6 minutes ago, remowilliams said:

 

This is a known thing.  I have several (U)Satandisk devices and never had an issue with them, until I had.

 

My Ultrasatan Mini bricked itself in just daily use one day with random luck of the draw that triggered corruption.  After talking with him I ordered an an inexpensive (DUCKBILL) ultrasatan flasher from Lotharek along with some other items, and voila - the unit was back in service after flashing.

 

 

I would have done the same if I would have known. Unfortunately the only advice I received from him when asking how to fix it was a link to his RMA form. 

[troed]

8 hours ago, remowilliams said:

 

This is a known thing.  I have several (U)Satandisk devices and never had an issue with them, until I had.

 

My Ultrasatan Mini bricked itself in just daily use one day with random luck of the draw that triggered FW corruption.  After a relatively short discussion with him about this issue, I ordered an an inexpensive (DUCKBILL) ultrasatan flasher from Lotharek along with some other items, and voila - the unit was back in service after flashing.

 

 

 

Well this is an issue with the device then - and covered under European consumer protection laws (for Europeans). I'm surprised Lotharek doesn't take this under warranty.

 

If customers are expected the reflash the device then the flasher needs to be part of the product - and something that customers can be reasonably expected to be able to use (so nothing requiring DOS-machines with LPT: ports).

 

(Can every single retro-hw developer in their personal capacity be able to keep to this level of functionality? Well no, not when it's a small scale hobby. However, Lotharek's business isn't a hobby so the expectation when buying from there is different)

 

[sideburn]

1 hour ago, troed said:

 

Well this is an issue with the device then - and covered under European consumer protection laws (for Europeans). I'm surprised Lotharek doesn't take this under warranty.

 

If customers are expected the reflash the device then the flasher needs to be part of the product - and something that customers can be reasonably expected to be able to use (so nothing requiring DOS-machines with LPT: ports).

 

(Can every single retro-hw developer in their personal capacity be able to keep to this level of functionality? Well no, not when it's a small scale hobby. However, Lotharek's business isn't a hobby so the expectation when buying from there is different)

 

My feelings exactly. Saying it is my fault for not realizing that somewhere in his website under a section about something completely different (files) there might be a troubleshooting flow chart that might give me some clues as to what might be wrong. 
 

and to expect that I should own all of the additional hardware and software required to connect to the main logic board and re program the firmware is just…. 🤦‍♂️ 

 

To also hold my device hostage now and stop communicating seems like it would be unlawful as well. 

Edited November 22, 2023 by sideburn

[troed]

Is the Lotharek US different from Jookie's original?

 

Quote

• it has 1 base (non overwritable) firmware, so even if you screw up the FW update, the device won’t become unusable

http://joo.kie.sk/?page_id=192

[troed]

I'm interested in the technical aspects, but I guess there might be a few different US versions and also it's not perfectly clear how/why this flash corruption occurs. It seems different from just how firmware updates are done. From the FAQ:

 

Quote

 

Q:I have bricke my ultrasatan during firmware upgrade
A: Yes, It may happen, but do not worry - it may be easily fixed. Please, follow:

• disconnect device
• open the case (4 screws)
• short failsafe jumper - CLICK
• Upgrade firmware again

 

 

Apparently the above solution didn't work in this case, which means the "base firmware" (I assume) had also been corrupted.

 

I see Lotharek designed a new revision in 2023, with this functionality, and maybe that's the actual (hw) fix?
 

Quote

DIP SWITCH

1 ON - Usatan boots base firmware
2 ON - flash with firmware write protect

Edited November 22, 2023 by troed

[sideburn]

I don’t know. It was definitely his own design on a white PCB. It’s pretty much the only one available for purchase out there. It worked well during the 8 months I had it until it just started fading and then quit completely. Died a slow death. I didn’t play many many games on it so I find the pirated software theory fishy…

[troed]

15 minutes ago, sideburn said:

I don’t know. It was definitely his own design on a white PCB. It’s pretty much the only one available for purchase out there. It worked well during the 8 months I had it until it just started fading and then quit completely. Died a slow death. I didn’t play many many games on it so I find the pirated software theory fishy…

 

Hehe that's the quote that caught my (and others) interest originally. If the fw updates are done the same way as in Jookie's original (US_CONF.PRG) I could se how someone could - on purpose - write software to corrupt the US flash. I see no way of it happening by mistake though, and there's no "pirated software" in general that would do it (why??).

So if Lotharek knows of a particular piece of software that - on purpose - has code in it to brick US devices then that information should be spread rather widely IMHO.
 

[sideburn]

Welp that’s what he told me while trying to push blame on me AGAIN. Blame blame blame. And I’m the one disrespecting him apparently. What an 🤬. I’m so pissed off about this sorry. He basically STOLE my device from me. 
 

I would have had to pay at minimum $90.00 plus shipping USA to get my device back from him😖😤

Edited November 22, 2023 by sideburn

[+davidcalgary29]

18 hours ago, 351cougar said:

 You also read of the "ive never had a problem" (see the 20+ years of best elect sucks posts ) but as they say your experience may vary. 

I've never had a problem ordering from Best Electronics.

 

[+davidcalgary29]

4 hours ago, sideburn said:

Welp that’s what he told me while trying to push blame on me AGAIN. Blame blame blame. And I’m the one disrespecting him apparently. What an 🤬. I’m so pissed off about this sorry. He basically STOLE my device from me. 
 

I would have had to pay at minimum $90.00 plus shipping USA to get my device back from him😖😤

I'm really sorry that this happened to you. If I have any advice to give about this hobby, it's that you cultivate a great sense of patience and and a remarkable facility for forgiveness. I've had some less-than-desirable experiences with some very reputable parties over the years; it's always surprising when it happens, but it's usually more of a genuine screwup than it is a case of genuine malice. I hope that you'll be able to resolve your differences with Lotharek in th end.

[sideburn]

8 minutes ago, davidcalgary29 said:

I've never had a problem ordering from Best Electronics.

 

LOL - I actually have a good time talking to him.. he's feisty but as long as I slow down and let him drive its "okay"....

[sideburn]

18 hours ago, davidcalgary29 said:

I'm really sorry that this happened to you. If I have any advice to give about this hobby, it's that you cultivate a great sense of patience and and a remarkable facility for forgiveness. I've had some less-than-desirable experiences with some very reputable parties over the years; it's always surprising when it happens, but it's usually more of a genuine screwup than it is a case of genuine malice. I hope that you'll be able to resolve your differences with Lotharek in th end.

Yeah I’m sure the whole issue was a communication problem. He thought I was attacking him and was on the defense. He came in swinging right out of the gate and I was continuously getting more and more disgruntled and frustrated as he continued to make false accusations about me. 
 

I feel that things might have been different if he:

 

• understood I was not accusing him of wrongdoing about shipping. 
 

• understood I was happy to pay the customs fees and appreciated him dealing with the hassle. 
 

• understood I purchased a pre-populated SD card.

 

• understood I did try to find troubleshooting information on his FAQ page. 

 

• understood product was within warranty period. 
 

Who knows… as tuf said “it’s single side of the story unless the other side chimes in”

[as...]

Sideburn, 

 

You know how many stupid messages he got?

I don't know but I can only guess, zaxon sometimes posts "such stupid" messages on Facebook

 

 

please chill out
Lotharek is a great man.

-always helps, fixes and etc.