My unfortunate experience with Lotharek

[+DarkLord]

It's hard to imagine that situation. I mean, think about it, look how many people are using his game

adaptations on their Ultrasatan's - I know I am and I've never had a problem with the one in my STacy

or the one in my Mega STe...

 

It just seems like we would see a lot more reports of this if true.

 

On top of that, the question would beg to be asked, "why???". Why would anyone write code to do that?

 

Just doesn't add up...

 

[mikro]

Just for the sake of satisfying my curiosity, I did go through Jookie's code for US. As @troed said, it's close to impossible to brick it without direct goal to do so. So unless Lotharek installs some custom, more-brick-prone US firmware by himself, I also think it's all BS. Electronics is fragile, it breaks sometimes even without reason.

[troed]

[troed]

I am now blocked from Lotharek's Facebook page for having posted regarding this issue _on an Ultrasatan post_. 

 

 

 

[sideburn]

🤦‍♂️ 

[ijor]

I don't know how these devices got bricked, but I would like to say a couple of things.

 

@remowilliams has been active on several Atari forums for many years. He has proven to be a gentleman. I have no doubts he is honest and trustworthy.

 

Lotharek can sometimes be a bit temperamental, even very temperamental if you want. But I believe he is a honest businessman as well.

 

I have criticized Pera more than once, but I doubt that he would distribute code that intentionally would damage or brick the hardware.

 

Again, no idea how exactly the US device(s) got bricked.

[troed]

On 12/14/2023 at 8:42 PM, ijor said:

I don't know how these devices got bricked, but I would like to say a couple of things.

 

@remowilliams has been active on several Atari forums for many years. He has proven to be a gentleman. I have no doubts he is honest and trustworthy.

 

Lotharek can sometimes be a bit temperamental, even very temperamental if you want. But I believe he is a honest businessman as well.

 

I have criticized Pera more than once, but I doubt that he would distribute code that intentionally would damage or brick the hardware.

 

Again, no idea how exactly the US device(s) got bricked.

 

I don't know either - I'm just not ok with a European company blaming users for having run "pirated software that bricks the device" when it's simply not true.

 

Either:

1) The US is a faulty product which will suddenly corrupt its flash. The seller can either replace them all with a fixed version or send out (at no cost) a device anyone can use (so no Windows 95 LPT:) to re-flash the device back to working order.

or

2) The users are running software that willfully uses the device programming protocol to brick them and the seller knows which software that is. Then TELL EVERYBODY (and let us verify)

Point one above is simple European consumer protection law. My assumption here is that Lotharek is on purpose trying to skirt those requirements by laying blame elsewhere. It's the same as the faulty audio on the first revision of the Medusa - that too is something they need to fix for any customer who brings a complaint. Yet they don't.

 

(Lotharek sent me an email saying something about me not being a real man, I think. It was very incoherent. So because of that I'll offer my services to anyone in Europe who wants to learn more about the European consumer protection laws)

 

[sideburn]

39 minutes ago, troed said:

 

I don't know either - I'm just not ok with a European company blaming users for having run "pirated software that bricks the device" when it's simply not true.

 

Either:

1) The US is a faulty product which will suddenly corrupt its flash. The seller can either replace them all with a fixed version or send out (at no cost) a device anyone can use (so no Windows 95 LPT:) to re-flash the device back to working order.

or

2) The users are running software that willfully uses the device programming protocol to brick them and the seller knows which software that is. Then TELL EVERYBODY (and let us verify)

Point one above is simple European consumer protection law. My assumption here is that Lotharek is on purpose trying to skirt those requirements by laying blame elsewhere. It's the same as the faulty audio on the first revision of the Medusa - that too is something they need to fix for any customer who brings a complaint. Yet they don't.

 

(Lotharek sent me an email saying something about me not being a real man, I think. It was very incoherent. So because of that I'll offer my services to anyone in Europe who wants to learn more about the European consumer protection laws)

 

* Warranty void if pirated software bricks your device. 

[troed]

8 hours ago, sideburn said:

* Warranty void if pirated software bricks your device. 

Warranty (given out by a seller, can include whatever condition they feel like) and consumer protection against failty products are two different things. The latter is enforced by law and cannot be waived.

 

[+DarkLord]

Just curious, how many Ultrasatan users have reported that their units were "bricked"?

 

Is this an incredible number or something that rarely happens?

 

On 12/16/2023 at 4:45 PM, troed said:

1) The US is a faulty product which will suddenly corrupt its flash.

 

If #1 were true, wouldn't we be seeing a lot more instances of this, considering how many Ultrasatan's are in use?

 

Thanks all.

 

[TheNameOfTheGame]

Had the same ultrasatan for like 8 years.  Run game adaptations all the time.  No problems.

Edited December 18, 2023 by TheNameOfTheGame

[troed]

7 hours ago, DarkLord said:

If #1 were true, wouldn't we be seeing a lot more instances of this, considering how many Ultrasatan's are in use?

 

 

It's common enough for Lotharek to document it and create a later revision with a write-protect bandaid at least. Also, for the buyers it doesn't really matter - it's enough that it happens to them.

 

[lotharek]

i will not repsond to this topic in the way i shall... as whole situation is pathethic.

 

 

I got my lesson and  i will never again help anybody, except official business way.  You gave me lesson, buddy ! Every time i do sth below my resposibility, i get punished 

 

You are not worthy my next lost nervous day 

Your half truth sold here definies You in my eyes 

 

 

 

I SAY THAT ONCE AGAIN : firmware failures of ultrasatan used to happen and probably will happen.   If sb can read, will undestand. 

 

USATAN flash protector is present since 2k23 version. Hopefully firmware damage caused by blind writes has been eliminated. Still cannot determine hardware reason. My only assumption is software bumping on flash adresses when flash cs is active and chip wr pin is ’1b1. In orginal usatan project active low write protect pin of flash was connected to vcc.  now, is pulled high with 10k resistor and activated by dipswitch connected to gnd.

 

 

[troed]

1 hour ago, lotharek said:

firmware failures of ultrasatan used to happen and probably will happen

 

except official business way.  You gave me lesson, buddy !

 

 

Awesome! So, "official business way" would be according to the consumer protection laws. If the product is faulty by design (yes, flash corrupting for no user caused reason is a faulty design) then that's something the seller is responsible for fixing. At no cost to the customers (not even shipping). Now, unfortunately for the thread starter they're in the US so you can still pretty much behave as you want towards them, but within Europe you're responsible for design flaws up to two years* after having sold the device.

 

https://europa.eu/youreurope/business/dealing-with-customers/consumer-contracts-guarantees/consumer-guarantees/index_en.htm

 

(... and I guess this is the end of trying to blame pirated software? See, that's the only reason I became interested in this to start with ...)

 

Quote

If sb can read, will undestand

 

I'm sure you can read and understand everything I wrote above.

 

*) 2 years is the EU minimum, some countries have longer. Which country's laws decides depends on how the seller markets themselves.

[sideburn]

I appreciated him dealing with the shipping issues and said I would pay those fees. He told me I could hold off and there would be no charges on that from the post office. That didn’t pan out and apparently there were indeed fees (which I would gladly have paid). 
 

Everything derailed (dismissing all of the accusations) when he sent me ADDITIONAL charges for the reflashing of the firmware while the device was under warranty. 
 

At that point the costs were equal to the price of buying a new device. 

[Mark_G]

Troed,

 

According to me you totally missed the point.

Lotharek is a hobby project, and I wonder if he can make a descend living with building and selling this devices at that price.

Tread him like a company, is totally over the top.

 

If those were built by a company with engineers, design team, inspection, etc.., you would have to pay at least 1000,- €/pc.

Taken into account the limit amount of build devices and their complexity.

 

The chance that they will work better is minimal, but you would get a better answer from their legal department.

 

My view is :

As hobby projects, we need to be aware that sometimes the devices don't always work like expected, and you must willing to take the loss.

Also don't blame the guys who are still willing to make this stuff.

 

 

[sideburn]

5 hours ago, Mark_G said:

Troed,

 

According to me you totally missed the point.

Lotharek is a hobby project, and I wonder if he can make a descend living with building and selling this devices at that price.

Tread him like a company, is totally over the top.

 

If those were built by a company with engineers, design team, inspection, etc.., you would have to pay at least 1000,- €/pc.

Taken into account the limit amount of build devices and their complexity.

 

The chance that they will work better is minimal, but you would get a better answer from their legal department.

 

My view is :

As hobby projects, we need to be aware that sometimes the devices don't always work like expected, and you must willing to take the loss.

Also don't blame the guys who are still willing to make this stuff.

 

 

Huh? It’s a full on company. With a team, in a nice building, with $100,000.00’s worth of manufacturing equipment. 
 

https://smd.lotharek.pl/en/about
 

 

And regardless, even if you are a hobbyist and build and sell a product on eBay (which I have done many times) and you offer a warranty, and your device fails from normal use within that warranty. You should honor the warranty. 
 

you should not void it and tell the costumer he failed to scour through his website looking for clues on how he might be able to repair it himself. 
 

If you want to take that route then you should at least respond to their initial email of them describing the problem and send them a link to your troubleshooting page instead of a link to an RMA form and then upon rescinding the item and repairing it tell the customer “you failed to follow instructions”. 
 

* Reminds me of when Apple said “your holding it wrong” when their iPhones had a faulty antenna 😂 

Edited December 24, 2023 by sideburn

[sideburn]

Maybe you thought it was just a hobby because of all the unprofessional comments and insults. 
 

And yes Lotharek, I can read… 🤨 

Edited December 24, 2023 by sideburn

[troed]

On 12/24/2023 at 9:05 PM, sideburn said:

Maybe you thought it was just a hobby because of all the unprofessional comments and insults. 
 

And yes Lotharek, I can read… 🤨 

 

Have you still not gotten an apology and your device back?

 

I mean, he's just admitted to being in the wrong with regards to your RMA here on the forum.

 

 

[sideburn]

2 hours ago, troed said:

 

Have you still not gotten an apology and your device back?

 

I mean, he's just admitted to being in the wrong with regards to your RMA here on the forum.

 

 

Nope.

[blacka013]

Hi sideburn,

any update on when you'll be getting the Ultra Satan back?

Regards

[sideburn]

No he kept it. I had bought a new cable for it it’s still new in box if anyone wants it. 
 

when he tried to charge me $45 more or whatever it was plus shipping for the “repair” work and void my warranty I said forget it so he kept it. At that point I’d be in $20 something to ship + the $40 fee for the customs fiasco + another $45 for the “repair” plus and other $20 to ship it back. Not worth it. 
 

I just got a Gotek. Waiting for a cable then I’m going to try that out. Not sure if it must be on drive 0 or not to run disk game disk images but I plan to chain it to an SF314. 

Edited February 9 by sideburn