Bitsized Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 9 hours ago, insertclevernamehere said: I see there’s 22 pages of this already so my question may have been asked already but when an update is officially released, will the process be simplified and/or will I be able to update using a Mac? I hope a mac version will be available - I don't have a version of Windows to boot on a mac to provide the update. I don't see why they wouldn't be able to provide a mac version for the firmware. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suspicious_milk Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 9 hours ago, ls650 said: My impression (and it's only my impression) is that Atari are working mightily to get a satisfactory firmware update that is not merely beta. The easiest way to get updates to the most users is with Windows. I'm sure they're aware that there is a desire for updates to be able to non-Windows users, but that imposes a whole new level of complexity. The assumption that most people have easy access to a windows PC or Mac is false. The assumption that most people have easy access to an Android or iPhone is true. Times have changed. 4 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aragorn7 Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 1 hour ago, suspicious_milk said: The assumption that most people have easy access to a windows PC or Mac is false. The assumption that most people have easy access to an Android or iPhone is true. Times have changed. 🤔 https://www.statista.com/statistics/218089/global-market-share-of-windows-7/ 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blinky Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 For people who do not have have a Windows PC but have a intel based computer, they can use Hiren’s BootCD This is kind of like a Live CD for Windows that doesn't require installation. It can be booted from USB. After creating the media follow the below steps to update the 2600+: extract DriverAssitant_v5.12.zip from the extracted folder, copy the contents of the Driver folder to the CustomDrivers folder of the HBCD drive. create a folder atari in the root of the HBCD drive and extract the contents of the RKDevTool_Release_v2.74.zip there. copy the AtariDumper executable there copy the update image there. connect the Atari2600+ to the update computer using the supplied USB-A tro USB-C cable boot your computer from the HBCD drive while the computer is still booting, power the 2600+ on while holding down Game Reset with the TV type in Color position (this will ensure the driver is automatically installed) After booting is complete, browse to the HBCD drive into the atari folder and run the RkDevTool.exe click on the Update firmware tab and then click on the Firmware button. browse again to the HBCD drive into the atari folder and select the .img image file click the update button and watch the right panel for the update to complete. close the RKDevtool, browse back to the atari folder and run the AtariDumper.exe power off the 2600+, put the TV type switch in B-W position and power on while holding down the Game Select switch. When the tools status changes from Undetected to Detected, press the download button. If the status doesn't change repeat the above step. Click OK and wait for the update to complete and click on OK again. 8 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suspicious_milk Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 2 hours ago, Aragorn7 said: 🤔 https://www.statista.com/statistics/218089/global-market-share-of-windows-7/ Meaningless. 80% of Windows sales are not to end users; they are school & business workstations. The last few years have seen PCs being replaced by phones & tablets in massive droves. The percentage of homes having a smartphone only vs a mac/pc only are heavily on the smartphone side. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NicodemusLegend Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 (edited) 12 minutes ago, suspicious_milk said: Meaningless. 80% of Windows sales are not to end users; they are school & business workstations. The last few years have seen PCs being replaced by phones & tablets in massive droves. The percentage of homes having a smartphone only vs a mac/pc only are heavily on the smartphone side. I, personally, don't have stats, so don't know for certain. But this seems an exaggeration, to me. While smartphones certainly are becoming more and more ubiquitous, Windows-based computers are still pretty easy to find in homes. Edited January 5 by NicodemusLegend 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldSchoolRetroGamer Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 (edited) 16 minutes ago, suspicious_milk said: Meaningless. 80% of Windows sales are not to end users; they are school & business workstations. The last few years have seen PCs being replaced by phones & tablets in massive droves. The percentage of homes having a smartphone only vs a mac/pc only are heavily on the smartphone side. Mac/pc only sure, but most would be in addition to also having a smartphone, the point being the majority are still going to have access to a Windows-based PC / Laptop in some form and for the purpose of this thread, nobody is doing firmware updates using their smartphone, well that is unless it is FOR the smartphone......... As it stands currently there is good reason they chose Windows-based devices for the 2600+ updates first and foremost. Edited January 5 by OldSchoolRetroGamer 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blinky Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 (edited) The majority of computer users use a Windows PC and I don't think that will change anytime soon, especially since you can buy a Windows mini PC for normal use that is even cheaper then a 2600+ Edited January 5 by Blinky fix typo 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean_1970 Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 18 minutes ago, OldSchoolRetroGamer said: Mac/pc only sure, but most would be in addition to also having a smartphone, the point being the majority are still going to have access to a Windows-based PC / Laptop in some form and for the purpose of this thread, nobody is doing firmware updates using their smartphone, well that is unless it is FOR the smartphone......... As it stands currently there is good reason they chose Windows-based devices for the 2600+ updates first and foremost. And? Still not unreasonable to hope for a non-platform-specific or macOS update method; especially given the fact it looks like it was sold without a notion to have end users upgrading the firmware in the first place. Having said that the major impact is PAL 7800 carts and homebrew so they could actually have done no update and it would only impact a minority of people buying this machine 🤷♂️ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jentzsch Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Blinky said: The majority of computer users use a Windows PC and I don't think that will change anytime soon, especially since you can buy a Windows mini PC for normal use that is even cheaper then a 2600+ I would much prefer a N100 or N95 based one. These start around $130. Edited January 5 by Thomas Jentzsch 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jentzsch Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 35 minutes ago, NicodemusLegend said: I, personally, don't have stats, so don't know for certain. But this seems an exaggeration, to me. While smartphones certainly are becoming more and more ubiquitous, Windows-based computers are still pretty easy to find in homes. Given the average age of the target audience of the 2600+, I am pretty sure the vast majority is having a PC. 10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suspicious_milk Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 Windows is not in dominate prefered usage. https://gs.statcounter.com/platform-market-share/desktop-mobile-tablet Even a tiny hardware (game controllers) manufacturer has 100k downloads for a button mapping android app. Search 8bitdo on google play. The assumption that Windows only is acceptable has passed. Convenience & preference makes happy customers & the userbase argument is quickly becoming willful ignorance; and doesn't account for convenience or preference. 1 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Stamos Mullet Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 4 hours ago, suspicious_milk said: The assumption that most people have easy access to a windows PC or Mac is false. The assumption that most people have easy access to an Android or iPhone is true. Times have changed. The assumption that the average target market for the 2600+ is Gen Zers with no computer and just a phone is hilarious as it is poorly correlated. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suspicious_milk Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 3 minutes ago, John Stamos Mullet said: The assumption that the average target market for the 2600+ is Gen Zers with no computer and just a phone is hilarious as it is poorly correlated. Assumed no one. Your extrapolations are inaccurate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+bent_pin Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean_1970 Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 4 minutes ago, John Stamos Mullet said: The assumption that the average target market for the 2600+ is Gen Zers with no computer and just a phone is hilarious as it is poorly correlated. Some of us ain’t fossils yet 😉 If my Mac couldn’t use my TV as a monitor I wouldn’t own a computer at all. I still say given the price and use of an ARM processor and emulator it should have had a WiFi chip and user interface. Maybe someday we’ll have a Gen 2 2600+ with those features 👍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TornadoTJ Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 (edited) 6 hours ago, Bitsized said: I hope a mac version will be available - I don't have a version of Windows to boot on a mac to provide the update. I don't see why they wouldn't be able to provide a mac version for the firmware. Windows is a free download now. You won't be able to do personalization such as changing your background, but so what? Now, how can I update it from my TT/030? Edited January 5 by TornadoTJ 1 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+bent_pin Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 2 minutes ago, Sean_1970 said: Some of us ain’t fossils yet 😉 If my Mac couldn’t use my TV as a monitor I wouldn’t own a computer at all. I still say given the price and use of an ARM processor and emulator it should have had a WiFi chip and user interface. Maybe someday we’ll have a Gen 2 2600+ with those features 👍 At what point do they stop making a 2600+ and just call it a miniPC? 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean_1970 Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 (edited) 16 minutes ago, bent_pin said: At what point do they stop making a 2600+ and just call it a miniPC? I wouldn’t call the Evercade VS a “mini-PC, so I’d say a fair distance (though it clearly runs some kind of OS like everything else these days). Look I was expecting the 2600+ to be built with an MOS 6502 and play games just like an old 2600 so having upgradable firmware is actually a bit goofy to me. But if we’re doing this then I think everyone should be able to get their firmware upgraded even if they have to post it back to Atari to do so (and yes I would, but I’d expect a very generous return policy). I’d need Touch Pad support before I’d be posting my 2600+ though 😉 Edited January 5 by Sean_1970 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+bent_pin Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 7 minutes ago, Sean_1970 said: even if they have to post it back to Atari to do so (and yes I would, but I’d expect a very generous return policy). Sounds highly impractical. I agree that there should be a platform independent upgrade path, but for the first beta update, I think you and several others are blowing the windows-only thing into a heck of a conspiracy. In every college class I took, except those few where the coursework was based specifically on linux, a windows pc would always serve as 100% compatible. Of the 600 or so students that I've worked with over the years, only 3 have been non-windows users and they were mac users. So far as aiming for the widest user base, windows is the clear choice. Until Plaion makes an official update, you might trying to relax and let them read the numerous comments that you and others have already posted about your discontent, and trust that they will do their best to accommodate as many users as possible. 7 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aragorn7 Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 43 minutes ago, suspicious_milk said: Meaningless. 80% of Windows sales are not to end users; they are school & business workstations. The last few years have seen PCs being replaced by phones & tablets in massive droves. The percentage of homes having a smartphone only vs a mac/pc only are heavily on the smartphone side. While there was never any question regarding Android dominance, the first link I sent you was to demonstrate Windows OS dominance among all computer users. Here is another couple of links demonstrating the same: https://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share/ https://www.windowscentral.com/canalys-pc-market-2021-report If you still feel differently after perusing this information, please supply your own data without anecdotes. Again, Android is dominant because worldwide more people carry a smartphone than any other device. That doesn't mean, however, that an Android smartphone is currently the ideal device to perform firmware updates on gaming consoles or other equipment. Each manufacturer often offers a modified version of Android. This has and does create problems for app developers. Also while iOS due to its closed system is a dream to program apps for compared to Android, it is a distant third in total market share. My point is that while some people may indeed not have easy access to Windows PCs or MACs, for computer users in general, it makes perfect sense for Atari to first provide 2600+ updates via the Windows platform due to it's obvious global dominance and intended functionality as a computer operating system. This may not always be the case, but it certainly is for now. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Stamos Mullet Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 33 minutes ago, Sean_1970 said: Some of us ain’t fossils yet 😉 If my Mac couldn’t use my TV as a monitor I wouldn’t own a computer at all. I still say given the price and use of an ARM processor and emulator it should have had a WiFi chip and user interface. Maybe someday we’ll have a Gen 2 2600+ with those features 👍 Adding a wifi chip and a user interface completely defeats the purpose of the 2600+. The 2600+ was only ever intended to be a contemporary re-release of the original 2600, and it's original feature set, period. It uses an Arm chip and Emulation because manufacturing a full chip-for-chip hardware based 2600 would be extremely price prohibitive, as would going with a more advanced device with the features you're asking for. Programming a UI costs developer money, especially one that would be considered attractive and user friendly. adding Wifi hardware also costs both hardware inclusion, chip design, and development costs to make it as compatible as possible. The Wifi chip inclusion alone would be a nightmare, because all the tech enthusiasts on Mesh networks and Wifi 6 and up would complain if it didn't have that, and all the people with old wifi APs would complain if it was Wifi 6 compliant because it would exclude all the old WEP/class B routers. Leaving it out and going USB-C cabled only makes the most sense. Atari is a for profit company. They are not an altruistic not-for-profit "Old Gamer Guy Make-a-Wish Foundation". As for the Mac vs. PC debate - it's the same as everything else like this. Mac users and other "alternative" OS users will have to wait. That's a choice they made, knowingly. Constantly railing on about it only deepens the stereotype of entitlement that they are loathe to admit. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suspicious_milk Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 https://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share/ Windows is not the most accessible. Laugh. Shitpost. Pile on. Edit & re edit delete rephrase repost. Lol. We're talking consumers not "computer users" 🙄 Sorry you're wrong; keep re-framing. You're "winning". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RevEng Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 17 minutes ago, suspicious_milk said: https://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share/ The worldwide view at your link is skewed by the massive number of Android users in India and China. Correct me if I'm mistaken, but I don't think Atari is targeting those markets with the 2600+. At the bottom of your linked page you can check by region. Which OS is top when you click on the largest regions the 2600+ is selling in? It seems to be Windows in almost all cases. The only counterexample I see is Europe, where Android only slightly eeks out Windows. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Stamos Mullet Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 22 minutes ago, RevEng said: The worldwide view at your link is skewed by the massive number of Android users in India and China. Correct me if I'm mistaken, but I don't think Atari is targeting those markets with the 2600+. At the bottom of your linked page you can check by region. Which OS is top when you click on the largest regions the 2600+ is selling in? It seems to be Windows in almost all cases. The only counterexample I see is Europe, where Android only slightly eeks out Windows. Not just not targetting them, Not selling in those markets, period. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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