chad5200 Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 Can anyone explain why my NTSC Kangaroo never experiences missing sprites on my 2600+ (1.1 beta) and instead I just see them flicker like normal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Karnov Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 12 minutes ago, chad5200 said: Can anyone explain why my NTSC Kangaroo never experiences missing sprites on my 2600+ (1.1 beta) and instead I just see them flicker like normal? I have NTSC Kangaroo and I'll test mine later on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrChickenz Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 39 minutes ago, chad5200 said: Can anyone explain why my NTSC Kangaroo never experiences missing sprites on my 2600+ (1.1 beta) and instead I just see them flicker like normal? Not sure but I believe you said Keystone Kapers runs smooth on yours as well. I just saw a YouTube video of a play through with Keystone Kapers on a 2600+ and it has the same hesitation mine has! The video was a play through not about issues but I could see it doing the same thing as mine. I don’t believe it had the 1.1 beta update. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glorkbot Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 (edited) 4 hours ago, remowilliams said: 2600+ (1.1) with Phosphor forced on. How do you access the Stella menu screens on Atari 2600+ to turn Phospor on? Edited January 17 by Glorkbot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Karnov Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 I played a whole bunch of NTSC Kangaroo on latest firmware. I had zero occurrences of the main sprite flickering or disappearing. VID_20240117_193157.mp4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glorkbot Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 3 minutes ago, Dr Karnov said: I played a whole bunch of NTSC Kangaroo on latest firmware. I had zero occurrences of the main sprite flickering or disappearing VID_20240117_193157.mp4 But your video show some of the other sprites disappearing, doesn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Karnov Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 1 minute ago, Glorkbot said: But your video show some of the other sprites disappearing, doesn't it? At the seven second mark it does look like one of the fruits disappeared. Nothing like the issues with the main sprite that other people seem to be having though 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chad5200 Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 Here is my NTSC Kangaroo running on my 2600+ (1.1 beta). No issues with disappearing sprites. Flickering at times? Yes... but that is quite normal in this game. Also, when recording these videos, important to make sure you are setting your phone to 60fps. My 2600+ is plugged directly into my Vizio TV HDMI input. Nothing in-between. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben from Plaion Posted January 17 Author Share Posted January 17 7 minutes ago, chad5200 said: Here is my NTSC Kangaroo running on my 2600+ (1.1 beta). No issues with disappearing sprites. Flickering at times? Yes... but that is quite normal in this game. Also, when recording these videos, important to make sure you are setting your phone to 60fps. My 2600+ is plugged directly into my Vizio TV HDMI input. Nothing in-between. Thanks for this, plot thickens. I have a couple of new builds tomorrow that have some settings changed, lets see what happens. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrChickenz Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 2 minutes ago, Ben from Plaion said: Thanks for this, plot thickens. I have a couple of new builds tomorrow that have some settings changed, lets see what happens. Let’s go Ben! You can do this my friend! 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dionoid Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 (edited) 3 hours ago, DirtyHairy said: This looks 100% like every other frame being skipped by the display. If this were plain Stella, I'd say this is a GPU issue: if the GPU is too slow and does not finish drawing a frame in time, Stella will continue emulation in the background, thus skipping one frame. If all frames are rendered too slowly, only each other frame will be drawn, and frames that are flickered 50/50 will disappear. I have encountered the same issue on the R77 when porting Stella 6 and fixed it by alternating textures between frames: it seems that the closed source Mali driver returns from glSwapBuffers while textures are still locked and rendering, and reusing them will block until the render completes. I don't know whether this also applies to RetroArch (again, having this in the equation is imo not a good thing), but it definitely looks like it, and the CPU and GPU specs are very similar between both devices. Is the Stella version for Retron77 also using some sort of 'threaded video' option like RetroArch is using? Just wondering. It looks like that option is a workaround for video drivers with bad performance, at the cost of smoothness of sync. For the Retron77 you have made an even better workaround by using alternating textures; really cool. Edited January 17 by Dionoid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben from Plaion Posted January 17 Author Share Posted January 17 6 minutes ago, MrChickenz said: Let’s go Ben! You can do this my friend! It would be good if you could try 1.0 again to see if the same happens with Kangaroo update.img 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrChickenz Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 3 minutes ago, Ben from Plaion said: It would be good if you could try 1.0 again to see if the same happens with Kangaroo update.img 68.85 MB · 0 downloads Update the dumper first then the image file. No need for the driver again is that correct? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben from Plaion Posted January 17 Author Share Posted January 17 Just now, MrChickenz said: Update the dumper first then the image file. No need for the driver again is that correct? I wouldn't bother with changing the dumper or driver at first just flash 1.0 IMG and see what happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrChickenz Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 21 minutes ago, Ben from Plaion said: I wouldn't bother with changing the dumper or driver at first just flash 1.0 IMG and see what happens. 👍 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyHairy Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 (edited) 45 minutes ago, Dionoid said: Is the Stella version for Retron77 also using some sort of 'threaded video' option like RetroArch is using? Just wondering. It looks like that is a workaround for video drivers with bad performance, at the cost of smoothness of sync. I don't know what "threaded video" exactly does, but Stella works the same on all platforms (other than RA): emulation runs in a loop, and every generated frame is shipped to the video driver. If, however, drawing the frame takes too long, Stella will resume emulation on a thread, and the generated frame will be skipped. This ensures that audio and emulation keep running at the correct speed, even if the video driver cannot keep up. Usually this happens briefly (i.e. if a window is moved), but on the R77 it happened systematically. The solution does not change the above algorithm, but just uses two sets of textures for processing and preparing frames that alternate, which keeps the video driver from blocking when a texture is reused while rendering is still in progress (at least, that's the explanation I came up with to explain the behaviour that I encountered, and alternating the textures indeed fixed it). Edited January 17 by DirtyHairy 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cody2000 Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 (edited) 7 hours ago, karri said: Just a small sidenote. When I started to overclock my DYI flash cart Otaku for emulating larger carts the power from the 2600+ cart connector did not provide enough current. The power consumption rises a lot when overclocking the Pico from 133MHz to 400MHz. That is not a real problem for me as I can feed extra power from my powerbank. I wonder if some of the special carts with extra chips could be problematic if they try to power ARM processors, extra RAM, extra ROM and extra sound chips on the cart. Just something to think about in case you have strange behaviour in your tests. I have no issues running ram plus CBS carts only once did I have a issue with tunnel runner but it was because the ram chip died which is something you have to take into consideration with games that are 40+ years old I have since replaced the cartridge with another copy and it works fine now Edited January 17 by Cody2000 left out info 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben from Plaion Posted January 17 Author Share Posted January 17 5 minutes ago, Cody2000 said: I have no issues running ram plus CBS carts only once did I have a issue with tunnel runner but it was because the ram chip died which is something you have to take into consideration with games that are 40+ years old I have since replaced the cartridge with another copy and it works fine now One thing I've really been enthused about with the 2600+ is giving a second life to carts that in 99% of the time plugging them in after 30 or 40 years still work and give enjoyment. How good is that! 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrChickenz Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 1 hour ago, Ben from Plaion said: It would be good if you could try 1.0 again to see if the same happens with Kangaroo update.img 68.85 MB · 0 downloads No change still has disappearing sprites. IMG_2098.MOV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrChickenz Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 (edited) Also 1.00 Pitfall still has clicking sound, Keystone Kapers still lags, hesitates Whats odd for me is I was trying all the 2.0 USB ports to go back to 1.00 either no device or intermittent. 3.0 USB port worked for me. Blue is usually 3.0 correct? Edited January 17 by MrChickenz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tradyblix Posted January 18 Share Posted January 18 (edited) 12 hours ago, Ben from Plaion said: Unlikely. edit: I write this cause I have asked around. Nothing came back positive. Someone did reach out to me but it was a friend of a friend that might be able to help. I'll write to him. I have a Mac. I was able to update my stuff. How ? I virtualized Windows. It's something we've been able to do for over 10 years now. It's easy. You get a copy of Windows 11, which is free btw, you no longer need keys to use windows, and you run it in a Parallels VM. You do have to have a copy of Parallels. But this is the way if you're on Mac and you want to update your 2600+ or use other windows programs. Edited January 18 by tradyblix Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrChickenz Posted January 18 Share Posted January 18 4 hours ago, Dr Karnov said: I played a whole bunch of NTSC Kangaroo on latest firmware. I had zero occurrences of the main sprite flickering or disappearing. VID_20240117_193157.mp4 The fruit is disappearing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
infinite.pies Posted January 18 Share Posted January 18 16 minutes ago, tradyblix said: I have a Mac. I was able to update my stuff. How ? I virtualized Windows. It's something we've been able to do for over 10 years now. It's easy. You get a copy of Windows 11, which is free btw, you no longer need keys to use windows, and you run it in a Parallels VM. You do have to have a copy of Parallels. But this is the way if you're on Mac and you want to update your 2600+ or use other windows programs. What kind of Mac did you use? I could only get this to work on an old Intel Mac. My newer Apple silicon Mac wouldn't work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrChickenz Posted January 18 Share Posted January 18 4 hours ago, Dr Karnov said: At the seven second mark it does look like one of the fruits disappeared. Nothing like the issues with the main sprite that other people seem to be having though Sometime the fruit and bell disappears Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrChickenz Posted January 18 Share Posted January 18 6 hours ago, chad5200 said: Can anyone explain why my NTSC Kangaroo never experiences missing sprites on my 2600+ (1.1 beta) and instead I just see them flicker like normal? Chad5200 How is your 2600+ powered? If your using a power brick whats the volts and amps? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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