2600+ Sound Issues

[Glorkbot]

4 hours ago, Ripdubski said:

You on a 4K tv?

Yeah I've been playing on both a 4k TV and a 700p TV. Mostly on the 700p tv, I guess, but I didn't have sound problems on either.

[Dionoid]

14 hours ago, chad5200 said:

I can confirm that the new 2600+ and the original 2600 are playing the music at the beginning of NTSC California Games at the exact same speed.

That is remarkable, as I also tested with a NTSC California Games and the speed difference in the intro screen is very noticeable between an original 2600 and the 2600+. Maybe some 2600+ CPUs are faster than others?

 

How did you test that both versions run at the exact same speed?

 

Edited January 10 by Dionoid

[chad5200]

30 minutes ago, Dionoid said:

That is remarkable, as I also tested with a NTSC California Games and the speed difference in the intro screen is very noticeable between an original 2600 and the 2600+. Maybe some 2600+ CPUs are faster than others?

 

How did you test that both versions run at the exact same speed?

 

 

Here is a video of NTSC California Games on beta 1.1.

 

First is original 2600, second is new 2600+. Other than volume levels (2600+ is quieter), I don't see or hear any difference.  Can you post a video of yours performing differently?

 

 

 

 

 

[Dionoid]

26 minutes ago, chad5200 said:

Can you post a video of yours performing differently?

That is a huge difference from what I see and hear (music is pretty quiet, so you'll need to turn up the volume). This is also NTSC California Games on firmware 1.1

 

Edited January 10 by Dionoid

[chad5200]

4 minutes ago, Dionoid said:

That is a huge difference from what I see and hear

Wow.  That is quite a difference!  How can that be?

 

I also have the AtariDumper1.1.0.4.exe dumper update that Ben posted a couple of days ago.  Does yours have that too?

 

[Dionoid]

2 minutes ago, chad5200 said:

I also have the AtariDumper1.1.0.4.exe dumper update that Ben posted a couple of days ago.  Does yours have that too?

Yes, I'm using the same dumper version. No clue why my version is running so much slower.

[chad5200]

Just now, Dionoid said:

Yes, I'm using the same dumper version. No clue why my version is running so much slower.

@Ben from Plaion any thoughts on this one?  Two people running the same game on the same version of 2600+ firmware but getting drastically different results.  Are there any 2600+ hardware differences out there?

 

My serial number is 27603 purchased directly from Atari.com when they took preorders and I am in the USA.  @Dionoid what is yours?

 

[+Ripdubski]

Back to my original topic:

 

Tried the 2600+ on 2 other devices.

1) Sony XBR-55X800E, 55" 4K tv.

Sound works like it should.  Sprites occasionally disappear. Like you cant see frogger on the road, just a very faint image of him.

 

2) Dell 2408WFP 1080P monitor (1920x1080), with soundbar attached.

Sound works fine.  Image is fine.

 

Seems the lower resolution is perfect.  Is there a way to tweak the emulator settings ?  If not, maybe that should be exposed to the user to some degree such that user can control/limit the output signal.

 

I'll mess around more with the Samsung Q6 tonight, as the image was perfect on it, just not the sound, and thats ultimately where I want the 2600+ to live.

[Glorkbot]

6 minutes ago, Dionoid said:

Yes, I'm using the same dumper version. No clue why my version is running so much slower.

the video you posted of California Games intro music running on your original 2600 is definitely faster than the music plays on my 2600+ or on Stella on my computer. I don't know if it runs faster on all original 2600s because I haven't tested it on mine yet.

[Dionoid]

8 minutes ago, Glorkbot said:

the video you posted of California Games intro music running on your original 2600 is definitely faster than the music plays on my 2600+ or on Stella on my computer.

That was a video of a PAL California Games, where the music indeed runs faster than on NTSC. But the latest video I posted was a NTSC California Games running on my 2600+. 

[+remowilliams]

(NTSC) California Games music sounds the same on my 2600/2600+

 

The 2600+ (1.1) however has some pretty bad graphical stuttering which is very obvious in the scroller - similar to what I had shown in H.E.R.O...

[Dionoid]

45 minutes ago, chad5200 said:

My serial number is 27603 purchased directly from Atari.com when they took preorders and I am in the USA.  @Dionoid what is yours?

My serial# is 21084 purchased in Europe (bol.com). I've connected it multiple TVs, but for California Games the result is the same: slower than on original hardware.

I remember a few years ago I bought an Evercade handheld, which had stuttering sound for some of the Sega Genesis/Mega Drive games. Turned out my CPU was from a batch of "slow machines"; luckily Evercade sent me a replacement device.

Edited January 10 by Dionoid

[Glorkbot]

38 minutes ago, Dionoid said:

That was a video of a PAL California Games, where the music indeed runs faster than on NTSC. But the latest video I posted was a NTSC California Games running on my 2600+. 

Okay I just tested NTSC California games on my Atari 2600+, my original heavy Atari 2600, and on Stella on my computer and all seem to run the music for California games the same. It has a little bit of a warmer analog sound playing over a coaxial cable from the original Atari 2600 but I'd say that's the only difference.

 

Regarding your video...yes, I'd say yours is playing the music way too slow. I don't know why.

 

Okay I really need to get back to work, lol. I shouldn't have wasted my morning doing this, but...it was fun, haha. Hope I helped.

Edited January 10 by Glorkbot

[JetmanUK]

Meanwhil over here in PAL land on Beta 1.1 all seems fine. Well, fast, but at least fast may be easier to fix. We have our own PAL issues don't we. 🤷🏻😬

 

Or perhaps my CPU is overclocked! 🤪🤣

Edited January 10 by JetmanUK

[Dionoid]

1 hour ago, JetmanUK said:

Meanwhil over here in PAL land on Beta 1.1 all seems fine. Well, fast, but at least fast may be easier to fix. We have our own PAL issues don't we. 🤷🏻😬

 

Or perhaps my CPU is overclocked! 🤪🤣

 

Then it must be my device; I’ve tried different HDMI cables on different TVs, but my PAL California Games is so much slower and has stuttering sound.

[ChrisKewl]

17 hours ago, Ripdubski said:

I skipped around a bit and didnt see what you mean, is there a minute you can point me at?

If you listen to the game sounds on the playthrough I provided, pick any spot of the gameplay (even the intro screen), you'll hear how crunchy and inconsistent it sounds.

 

To hear how it should sound you can listen to this playthrough here:

 

[DEANJIMMY]

4 hours ago, Dionoid said:

That is a huge difference from what I see and hear (music is pretty quiet, so you'll need to turn up the volume). This is also NTSC California Games on firmware 1.1

 

Just listened to CG on my 2600+ and yours sounds bad, it was Ok on my console🤔

[Glorkbot]

14 minutes ago, ChrisKewl said:

If you listen to the game sounds on the playthrough I provided, pick any spot of the gameplay (even the intro screen), you'll hear how crunchy and inconsistent it sounds.

 

To hear how it should sound you can listen to this playthrough here:

 

It’s funny how half the sprites are invisible. Is that a problem with your screen capture device?

[ChrisKewl]

Just now, Glorkbot said:

It’s funny how half the sprites are invisible. Is that a problem with your screen capture device?

Yeah, for some reason my AverMedia ExtremeCap U3 doesn't emulate the sound or sprites correctly. I need to find my other capture devices and see if I can get them to work better.

[+Ripdubski]

Problem Solved.

 

Because the 7800 game sound is OK, but starts less than a second late, it got me thinking.  The same thing happens to me when streaming audio directly to my JBL 5.1 sound bar.  I turned the sound bar off with physical button which the TV automatically switches to internal speakers.  Sound issue resolved!  It works perfectly now!  And the 7800 no longer has that ~1s delay.  Something with the sound bar, and I'll have to look for a firmware update.   Easy enough in the mean time to just turn it off.

 

While testing I noticed the spinners on video pinball sometimes getting distorted.  I turned on Game Mode and adjusted the Judder and Blur reduction to 1 (down from max of 10), also not the minimum of 0.  Resolved!  For anyone else that may have this issue, this is on a Samsung Q6.

 

Other testing I did:

-Sony XBR-X800E.  Sound was perfect out of the gate, using either the Sony soundbar, or the internal speakers.  Sprites would sometimes get washed out and hard to see.  Might be some graphic "enhancements" happening, didnt bother to check further since the 2600+ wont live there.

-Dell 2408WFP (1080P monitor).  Everything worked perfectly.

 

Happy to report the 2600+ seems to be working perfectly, and my issues all resolved.

Thanks for the tips.

Edited January 11 by Ripdubski
Add other tests

[Glorkbot]

3 hours ago, Ripdubski said:

Problem Solved.

 

 I turned the sound bar off with physical button which the TV automatically switches to internal speakers.  Sound issue resolved!  It works perfectly now! 

I would’ve mentioned soundbar as a possible culprit but I figured @Sean_1970 already covered that on the first page. (He didn’t use the word soundbar, but I figured that’s the sort of thing he meant.)

 

Well, glad you finally figured it out! That must feel good.

Edited January 11 by Glorkbot

[Sean_1970]

7 hours ago, Glorkbot said:

I would’ve mentioned soundbar as a possible culprit but I figured @Sean_1970 already covered that on the first page. (He didn’t use the word soundbar, but I figured that’s the sort of thing he meant.)

 

Well, glad you finally figured it out! That must feel good.

I was thinking more a receiver as I gather they often have HDMI connections and then a single output to TV?

 

I use stereo analogue sound myself, though my hi-fi isn’t using vacuum tubes 😅. My 2600+ runs through a 4K-enabled hub (although nothing connected to it is 4K) to TV and then I run the optical audio output from my tv through a digital preamp which downmixes to stereo and comes out as 2.1 (old home theatre subwoofer connected since my amp has sub outputs). Sounds pretty awesome, especially for music, though I wonder if this is causing me not to experience some of these audio issues?

[Glorkbot]

56 minutes ago, Sean_1970 said:

I was thinking more a receiver as I gather they often have HDMI connections and then a single output to TV?

Yeah, I imagined a situation you didn’t mention, but then since my mind was mistakenly sure you mentioned it I never brought it up.

[+Ripdubski]

Sound bar is ARC HDMI.  I didnt try using the optical connection instead.  I had issues with the optical in the past, on the Sony I also mentioned, so I've kind of avoided optical.  I updated the sound bar firmware last night and will test the delay tonight.  If its still there, it might be time for an upgrade.  And, yeah, glad its resolved with an easy fix.