Gory-Glory Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 Hi Yes it will be very nice to see what type of files and games that 400 Mini can play on a USB-Stick. 😀 I have both C64 Mini and A500 Mini and they works fine with that. 😉 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zzip Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 14 hours ago, Sean_1970 said: Looking over my rom collection there’s like a half-dozen file extensions and no rhyme or reason I can see to which are cart (other than the obvious .car) or disk images. Hopefully this machine will recognise the lot, but I can tell a lot of testing will be happening! My USB key is ready, but 8gb stick for 3MB worth of files is slightly galling 😅 For loose binaries on Atari, there's never bin an official extension. So you will find them with ".COM", ".EXE", ".OBJ", ".BIN" and various made-up extensions. The internet has been trying to standardize on .XEX for these. Most of the random extensions will be in this class and can be renamed to .XEX or whatever the 400mini recognizes. disk images are usually .atr or .xfd for really old ones. cart dumps are usually .rom or .car 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean_1970 Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 2 hours ago, zzip said: For loose binaries on Atari, there's never bin an official extension. So you will find them with ".COM", ".EXE", ".OBJ", ".BIN" and various made-up extensions. The internet has been trying to standardize on .XEX for these. Most of the random extensions will be in this class and can be renamed to .XEX or whatever the 400mini recognizes. disk images are usually .atr or .xfd for really old ones. cart dumps are usually .rom or .car That’s reassuring - my eventual query after getting it and testing would be whether the file types were truly different or in the event something wasn’t recognised if you could just change a file extension. Looks like both computer cart and 5200 images both use .car - am I right in thinking aside from the different form factor the actual game code could run on both 8-bit computers and the 5200? I know some of the ROMs I have claim to be 5200 games, but have .atr extensions, so it’s quite a grab-bag 😂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zzip Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 4 minutes ago, Sean_1970 said: That’s reassuring - my eventual query after getting it and testing would be whether the file types were truly different or in the event something wasn’t recognised if you could just change a file extension. Looks like both computer cart and 5200 images both use .car - am I right in thinking aside from the different form factor the actual game code could run on both 8-bit computers and the 5200? I know some of the ROMs I have claim to be 5200 games, but have .atr extensions, so it’s quite a grab-bag 😂 the atari800 and 5200 hardware are just different enough that the cart dumps aren't cross-compatible, but most Atari 8bit emulators also emulate the 5200 so there's a possibility that it switches into the correct mode based on the cart inserted. Also to further complicate things, some carts have headers to help identify them and others don't. If you run an emulator like atari800 and it asks you what type of cart you inserted, then you are using a headerless cart. There is documentation that comes with the Atari800 emulator that tells you how to convert your cart images to add the header. I did this with my 5200 roms and it's a much better experience. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean_1970 Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 8 minutes ago, zzip said: the atari800 and 5200 hardware are just different enough that the cart dumps aren't cross-compatible, but most Atari 8bit emulators also emulate the 5200 so there's a possibility that it switches into the correct mode based on the cart inserted. Also to further complicate things, some carts have headers to help identify them and others don't. If you run an emulator like atari800 and it asks you what type of cart you inserted, then you are using a headerless cart. There is documentation that comes with the Atari800 emulator that tells you how to convert your cart images to add the header. I did this with my 5200 roms and it's a much better experience. Awesome. I can see the possible beginnings of a pinned FAQ thread, depending upon how clever the 400Mini software is 😁 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zzip Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 24 minutes ago, Sean_1970 said: Awesome. I can see the possible beginnings of a pinned FAQ thread, depending upon how clever the 400Mini software is 😁 true I suppose for people new to the hardware, there is a bit to learn... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+jeremiahjt Posted January 28 Share Posted January 28 On 1/20/2024 at 10:34 AM, scottinpa48 said: Sorry for posting here but I couldn't find the 400 or 400 Mini thread. I'm looking for a way to delete my post. There is no need to apologize. New users often choose the wrong forum or subforum to pose questions. A moderator or administrator can always move the thread, like with this one, to the correct subforum and things can go on normally. Sometimes the users who have been here for some time can forget a little courtesy goes a long way, even if they have to go through the monumental task of ignoring a thread. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Guitarman Posted January 30 Share Posted January 30 On 1/26/2024 at 11:47 AM, zzip said: the atari800 and 5200 hardware are just different enough that the cart dumps aren't cross-compatible, but most Atari 8bit emulators also emulate the 5200 so there's a possibility that it switches into the correct mode based on the cart inserted. Also to further complicate things, some carts have headers to help identify them and others don't. If you run an emulator like atari800 and it asks you what type of cart you inserted, then you are using a headerless cart. There is documentation that comes with the Atari800 emulator that tells you how to convert your cart images to add the header. I did this with my 5200 roms and it's a much better experience. From what I understand, the only difference is the hardware BIOS. The code in the cartridge (800 or 5200) is the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FifthPlayer Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 (edited) 5 hours ago, Guitarman said: From what I understand, the only difference is the hardware BIOS. The code in the cartridge (800 or 5200) is the same. Also all the hardware register memory locations for graphics, sound, etc. are different between the two. Edited January 31 by FifthPlayer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spanner Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 (edited) Whatever the Atari800 Emulator v410 can run will work, same as Atari Mode on PCUAE.... Edited February 1 by Spanner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spanner Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 (edited) Hold on, it has a rewind feature so it use Retroarch, it the only emulator that can rewind afaik so it uses the Atari800 Core so not sure what version it uses, maybe v410, once we find out what Retroarch it uses (maybe 1.7.1 or 1.7.4) then we will know what cores it uses. Edited February 1 by Spanner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gory-Glory Posted February 9 Share Posted February 9 I am a really beginner when it is Atari, so I want to have some tips about good games to add to the 400 mini. 😀 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean_1970 Posted February 12 Share Posted February 12 I haven’t played these in an age and don’t even remember where I got them, but here’s a list omitting popular arcade ports and ports of Activision and Imagic games that originally came out on the 2600 (though you should have them too): Agent USA (educational game, but fun) Alternate Reality:The City Alternate Reality: The Dungeon Archon Archon 2 Astro Chase Attack of the Mutant Camels Blue Max Caverns of Mars Choplifter Computer War Conan Countermeasure Dimension X Dreadnaught Factor Eidolon Ghostbusters Goonies Gremlins Heavy Metal Illumina Jumpman Jumpman Jr. Karateka Keychase Koronis Rift Laserbase Lasergates Looney Tunes Hotel Montezumas Revenge Montezuma Strikes Back Mountain King Popcorn Quest for Quintana Roo Rainbow Walker Realm of Impossibility Repton Rescue on Fractalus Revenge of the Mutant Camels Space Dungeon Spy Vs Spy (there’s a series of these) Star Crystals Star Fleet War Games Warrior Xari Arena Zenji Zone Ranger 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gory-Glory Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 Sean_1970 >>> Thanks for the list of good Atarigames 😀 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean_1970 Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 It’s probably worth noting for folks new to 8-bit computer games that although this was the era before copy protection on disk-based games a number of publishers sought to stymie piracy by having games ask for codes or references on specific manual pages, so even though a game might not be complex enough to need a manual you will likely still need a scan in order to get past a security question before you can play. I’m pretty sure Ultima and Alternate Reality had this feature and there’s probably more. Of course those of us swapping copies spread the word around and were sometimes nice enough to include photocopies of the relevant pages 😉 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gory-Glory Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 Yes I remember that with codes on manual pages to write in on games on Amigagames, but when it was cracked copies of games, you could write whatever you wanted and the game would work to play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giles N Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 On 1/30/2024 at 7:36 PM, Guitarman said: From what I understand, the only difference is the hardware BIOS. The code in the cartridge (800 or 5200) is the same. Is this so for every game, given that the 5200 has analogue controller(s)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zzip Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 On 2/13/2024 at 4:48 AM, Sean_1970 said: It’s probably worth noting for folks new to 8-bit computer games that although this was the era before copy protection on disk-based games a number of publishers sought to stymie piracy by having games ask for codes or references on specific manual pages, so even though a game might not be complex enough to need a manual you will likely still need a scan in order to get past a security question before you can play. I’m pretty sure Ultima and Alternate Reality had this feature and there’s probably more. Of course those of us swapping copies spread the word around and were sometimes nice enough to include photocopies of the relevant pages 😉 Atari did have disk-based copy protection that was usually based on bad sectors. The protection scheme that required typing something in from a manual was more of an artifact of the 16-bit era when users started to demand the ability to install games to a hard drive. There may have been some 8-bit games that used manuals as copy-protection, but I ran into it far more with DOS and ST games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean_1970 Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 1 hour ago, zzip said: Atari did have disk-based copy protection that was usually based on bad sectors. The protection scheme that required typing something in from a manual was more of an artifact of the 16-bit era when users started to demand the ability to install games to a hard drive. There may have been some 8-bit games that used manuals as copy-protection, but I ran into it far more with DOS and ST games. I honestly don’t think I encountered disk-based protection, but given I only purchased two games for my 800XL that’s not a surprise. The two games I named and possibly one or two Lucas Arts ones I remember using manual page codes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zzip Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 10 minutes ago, Sean_1970 said: I honestly don’t think I encountered disk-based protection, but given I only purchased two games for my 800XL that’s not a surprise. The two games I named and possibly one or two Lucas Arts ones I remember using manual page codes. I wonder if the games were different in your country? My Ultima / Alternate Reality / Lucasfilm games never asked me to check the manual. I think Alternate Reality had a scheme where it let you play the game but punished you in the gameplay if it detected you were using a pirate copy. I had original copies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean_1970 Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 3 hours ago, zzip said: I wonder if the games were different in your country? My Ultima / Alternate Reality / Lucasfilm games never asked me to check the manual. I think Alternate Reality had a scheme where it let you play the game but punished you in the gameplay if it detected you were using a pirate copy. I had original copies. Interesting. I definitely remember one of the Ultimas asked for a code from a page; I thought I encountered this more than once, but I could be wrong - it was a long time ago. I spent my teenage years in San Jose, California. A friend of mine shared stuff like Jumpman and a few of us traded games copied to floppies like Goonies, Gremlins and The Last Starfighter - when I found out that was the unreleased original version of Star Raiders II my mind was blown. I think if I had been anywhere but Silicon Valley in the 80s that wouldn’t have happened 😂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zzip Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 35 minutes ago, Sean_1970 said: Interesting. I definitely remember one of the Ultimas asked for a code from a page; I thought I encountered this more than once, but I could be wrong - it was a long time ago. A lot of games do get multiple releases. It could be the original release had disk-based copy protection and a later version switched to manual-lookup protection? There was a desire on the part of users to make legal backup copies of software and install to hard drive, so there was a movement to abandon the disk protection in the late-80s. 42 minutes ago, Sean_1970 said: and The Last Starfighter - when I found out that was the unreleased original version of Star Raiders II my mind was blown. Yeah it was meant to be a home version of the arcade machine featured in the movie "The Last Starfighter", but that was the year Atari was in upheaval and it never got release in time to be a movie tie-in, so they eventually turned it into a Star Raiders sequel a few years later Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gory-Glory Posted March 1 Share Posted March 1 I am looking most forward to play Pac-Man Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockymin Posted March 1 Share Posted March 1 42 minutes ago, Gory-Glory said: I am looking most forward to play Pac-Man I prefer the older box that has the Pac Man in my avatar. That's basically the 2600 box, with pink ghosts, but the background is representative of the 8bit version. But why do they only have 3 ghosts? I've always wondered that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gory-Glory Posted March 1 Share Posted March 1 (edited) Rockymin >>> Okey so there is also an older Pac-Man like your avatar. I do not know why there are only three ghost in the cover. Edited March 1 by Gory-Glory Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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