Paddlefield (was: Pong Wars) (Atari 2600)

[Thomas Jentzsch]

15 minutes ago, Silvio Mogno said:

Sometimes, very seldom, the screen goes out of sync.

 

Tried with Stella Emulator, there's a frame totally black, then a partially background colored frame and then the game recovers.

 

Don't know if this glitch was already known.

Thanks for reporting. I found and fixed it just yesterday. It was a side effect of the new score display.

15 minutes ago, Silvio Mogno said:

BTW an instant classic!

Thank you very much.

[Thomas Jentzsch]

Added V0.92 to first post. There are only minor changes:

• added two new boards
• fixed some bugs (incl. the one reported by @Silvio Mogno)
• reordered some bits (the previous PlusCart settings became partially invalid due to this)

[Thomas Jentzsch]

V0.93, changes:

• added ball stopping at paddle mode 
• added two more boards
• fixed a bug when fire was pressed during playing a winning tune

I am not sure if stopping the ball makes any sense. Yes, you can target better, but at the same time the opponent's ball keeps moving and converts cells.

[gliptitude]

The ball stopping is really exciting.

 

It definitely gives a new prospect and intentionality to gameplay. It is also just cool to look at and think about. So the ball maybe keeps it's reflected trajectory in reserve until you release it. It works.

 

Competitiveness-wise I won more games than I lost in ball stop mode and didn't have a problem with that. But it would be nice to see opponent doing it too.

 

I miss exiting game on button press in the other modes. I don't miss it in ball stop mode because I have the ball stopping to do with the button. I see that game can still be exited, I think with going upper extreme with paddle and pressing button.

 

Ball stop does not work for me in 2P vs game. As soon as 2P touches ball with bat the game freezes and balls start doing crazy things. Usually 1P can exit to menu and then resume the game, but the 2P freeze continues whenever 2P touches again. It is fun glitch to play with but I guess needs to be fixed.

 

I had a couple other less dramatic game interruptions in ball stop mode. Some maybe to do with triggering the game exit accidently. Sometimes it would reset the game and other times just pause. If it is user error I think it is still something many will encounter in typical play.

 

I think ball stop mode is very promising, perhaps answer to some biggest questions with the game.

 

.. Now in that 2P glitch, one thing that happens is 2P is able to move the ball up and down with the paddle controller, endlessly. It is something to try out.

 

There is something confusing to me now with the player/AI selection that initially it starts out with what looks just like the nudge-mode icon.

[Thomas Jentzsch]

Thanks for testing and pointing out the two player bug. I will try to fix it and release a new version.

 

 

[Thomas Jentzsch]

V0.94, only small changes:

• Fixed the bug with paddle stopping in 2 player mode reported by @gliptitude
• For entering the selection mode, you now always have turn the paddle to the very right before pressing fire*

* I assume all paddles are more or less equal. If you cannot enter the selection mode, please let me know!

[gliptitude]

It would be cool if you could print the title on screen without splitting it up, along these lines or some other way:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 17 by gliptitude

[Thomas Jentzsch]

Some cool suggestions. Thank you! 👍 

 

I really have to think about these.

 

 

[Thomas Jentzsch]

Hard to decide which looks best...

 

I tend to the (blue) last but one.

Edited April 25 by Thomas Jentzsch

[+ZeroPage Homebrew]

 ZeroPage Homebrew is playing Paddlefield on tomorrow's ZPH stream LIVE on Twitch! Hope you can join us!

 

Fri Apr 26, 2024 | LIVE @ 12PM PT | 3PM ET | 7PM GMT

WATCH LIVE: https://twitch.tv/zeropagehomebrew/

WATCH LATER: https://youtube.com/zeropagehomebrew/

 

Games:

• Robo Tito (2024 Exclusive World Premiere | 2600) by VHZC Games / Vladimir Zuñiga @vhzc
• Ninja Kombat (2024 WIP | 2600) by Shawn O'Brion @freshbrood
• Berta and Butterflies (2024 WIP | 2600) by Sławomir Krysztowiak @Dalton
• Paddlefield (2024 WIP Update | 2600) by Thomas Jentzsch @Thomas Jentzsch

 

[Thomas Jentzsch]

@ZeroPage Homebrew Thanks a lot. I really like to get some more feedback for the final touches.

[gliptitude]

@Thomas Jentzsch, you refer to the titles I posted?

 

You or anyone can mess with these titles more. Or I probably will too if there is some direction. 

 

I just went with the restrictions as I understood them, 32x23 and two colors, and with my own priority of keeping Paddlefield one continuous word somehow.

 

Color variations I think do make a difference, including how readable some designs are. I didn't spend much time with colors and don't know how the variable works in the game. Here is the blue one in black and white:

 

 

For me the second one, with the cascading lines under A, E and E is real slick. But maybe too slick, like an action movie logo or something, perhaps misleading or distracting from the game. It might be less so with different lower contrast colors. The last one with straight blocks instead of the cascading lines I think also is more neutral appearance, not so flashy.

 

Looking like a barcode or like a checkerboard, like in the first one or in the blue one, desirable or undesirable, I don't know. It is hectic and interesting. Barcode has some meaning or symbolism. The blue one as posted is also a different letter spacing that I don't necessarily prefer, but reverting would change the checker pattern, for good or bad. I can't remember if there was a reason for that design being the one where the letter spacing changed.

 

In my thought process, having to choose, I end up on the red one, although I would definitely try different colors. It is not my favorite to look at, and I wonder how it functions for other people, but I think it side steps some issues very effectively - Guy I showed some designs to was inclined to read the A as i, PiDDLEFIELD instead of PADDLEFIELD, which is incredibly annoying to me. Also the D D L, three letters in a row all same color and spacing annoys me but almost has to be that way in order to read.

 

But with the full screen repeating the title over and over makes the whole image look like an endless texture, with fairly even distributed contrast and also looking like an optical illusion that requires brief effort to decipher. I think that's interesting and interactive, still looks good, and hides or mitigates the A/i problem and the big fat DDL problem. It's not so difficult to read that people wouldn't get it, especially already knowing and seeing the title printed on the cart label. Eyes aren't quick enough to see and decide on "i" instead of "A" and the constant distraction of the busy design prohibits it I think. And the DDL's blend into each other and into the spaces between somehow and look less big and fat. First, the player is going to see and be like "what is that?". Quickly they will decide, "it must be something, there is deliberate variety and repetition, a pattern". Then I think they will recognize the E's and shortly after that the whole word. And they will recognize it is kind of a sharp image and legible representation after all, "PADDLEFIELD, PADDLEFIELD, PADDLEFIELD".

 

Maybe the "i problem" isn't that critical but it was something I worried about and lead to that design. I don't want people reading or saying Piddlefield. It's embarrassing and really pisses me off. I can hear some guy never letting me forget it.

 

I wonder if you could do something dynamic and echoing the menu selection that people like?

 

One idea is a bar moves across screen on paddle input and highlights one letter at a time. Makes the same clicking noise as menu selections, and screen doesn't advance until you spell out PADDLEFIELD.

 

 

Well it would help narrow down these designs. Here's another paddle controlled title idea:

 

 

I guess that could be done with most of the designs but would take more than a few minutes for me to show.

 

Another idea, the full screen red pattern design, or something similar, is moving up and down and paddle turns stabilize it - like TV V-hold adjuster. And player has to kind of focus it before advancing.

 

Here's a different letter spacing, no spaces and every letter alternates color, and different checker pattern for comparison:

 

 

[Thomas Jentzsch]

53 minutes ago, gliptitude said:

@Thomas Jentzsch, you refer to the titles I posted?

Yup.

53 minutes ago, gliptitude said:

You or anyone can mess with these titles more. Or I probably will too if there is some direction. 

 

I just went with the restrictions as I understood them, 32x23 and two colors, and with my own priority of keeping Paddlefield one continuous word somehow.

Correct.

53 minutes ago, gliptitude said:

Color variations I think do make a difference, including how readable some designs are. I didn't spend much time with colors and don't know how the variable works in the game.

You have 16 dark and 16 bright colors you can combine. The contrast should be fine for all combinations.

53 minutes ago, gliptitude said:

For me the second one, with the cascading lines under A, E and E is real slick. But maybe too slick, like an action movie logo or something, perhaps misleading or distracting from the game. It might be less so with different lower contrast colors. The last one with straight blocks instead of the cascading lines I think also is more neutral appearance, not so flashy.

I like them all. I chose the blue one, because it is a bit less busy than the red one. And it some good vibes and rhythm.

53 minutes ago, gliptitude said:

Looking like a barcode or like a checkerboard, like in the first one or in the blue one, desirable or undesirable, I don't know. It is hectic and interesting. Barcode has some meaning or symbolism. The blue one as posted is also a different letter spacing that I don't necessarily prefer, but reverting would change the checker pattern, for good or bad. I can't remember if there was a reason for that design being the one where the letter spacing changed.

Yes, I noticed that too. Thought you might have a reason for it.  

53 minutes ago, gliptitude said:

In my thought process, having to choose, I end up on the red one, although I would definitely try different colors. It is not my favorite to look at, and I wonder how it functions for other people, but I think it side steps some issues very effectively - Guy I showed some designs to was inclined to read the A as i, PiDDLEFIELD instead of PADDLEFIELD, which is incredibly annoying to me. Also the D D L, three letters in a row all same color and spacing annoys me but almost has to be that way in order to read.

I think they form some kind of anchor.

53 minutes ago, gliptitude said:

But with the full screen repeating the title over and over makes the whole image look like an endless texture, with fairly even distributed contrast and also looking like an optical illusion that requires brief effort to decipher. I think that's interesting and interactive, still looks good, and hides or mitigates the A/i problem and the big fat DDL problem. It's not so difficult to read that people wouldn't get it, especially already knowing and seeing the title printed on the cart label. Eyes aren't quick enough to see and decide on "i" instead of "A" and the constant distraction of the busy design prohibits it I think. And the DDL's blend into each other and into the spaces between somehow and look less big and fat. First, the player is going to see and be like "what is that?". Quickly they will decide, "it must be something, there is deliberate variety and repetition, a pattern". Then I think they will recognize the E's and shortly after that the whole word. And they will recognize it is kind of a sharp image and legible representation after all, "PADDLEFIELD, PADDLEFIELD, PADDLEFIELD".

Yes, the red one is also nice, but I am not sure if it work well as a title. Too many PADDLEFIELDs!  

53 minutes ago, gliptitude said:

Maybe the "i problem" isn't that critical but it was something I worried about and lead to that design. I don't want people reading or saying Piddlefield. It's embarrassing and really pisses me off. I can hear some guy never letting me forget it.

Don't worry too much, I never saw an 'i' there.

53 minutes ago, gliptitude said:

I wonder if you could do something dynamic and echoing the menu selection that people like?

 

One idea is a bar moves across screen on paddle input and highlights one letter at a time. Makes the same clicking noise as menu selections, and screen doesn't advance until you spell out PADDLEFIELD.

 

 

Well it would help narrow down these designs.

This would require way too much storage space.

53 minutes ago, gliptitude said:

Here's another paddle controlled title idea:

This would be a bit better, but still need much more resources than the static version. And I think it is best to present the player the current game selection (incl. its board design). So prefer to limit this to the title screen.

53 minutes ago, gliptitude said:

Here's a different letter spacing, no spaces and every letter alternates color, and different checker pattern for comparison:

 

 

This is IMO too busy. The other version has some rhythm, these just follow a strict pattern.

[Thomas Jentzsch]

I have added V0.95 to the first post, which shows the revised title screen. No other changes.

[freshbrood]

@ZeroPage Homebrew

 

Thanks James!

 

(Just an FYI the magics are all down, back, fire or down, forward, fire or down, up. The yellow ninja will crash the game if doing down, forward, fire magic as I haven't finished coding his spear move yet.)

 

Holding down+fire in the air is jump punch. (I left a DEBUG in that changes characters for testing if doing a straight up and down jump punch). Simply standing and pressing fire performs a low kick. During the knee bend animation press up for high kick or away for roundhouse.

 

[Thomas Jentzsch]

@freshbrood Wrong thread.  

[gliptitude]

Some variations along these lines to see, in case..

 

 

I guess if none of those seem like improvement then you can be more confident of the original choice.

 

I do prefer the A right in between the P and D in the other designs but with this one I don't know.

 

*It does bother me a little bit that it will only be seen in blue and white. Can you cycle colors or something? Or maybe it random picks different colors every startup? Not a big deal obviously but would be neat.

Edited April 26 by gliptitude

[Thomas Jentzsch]

33 minutes ago, gliptitude said:

I do prefer the A right in between the P and D in the other designs but with this one I don't know.

You could do an alternative version.

33 minutes ago, gliptitude said:

*It does bother me a little bit that it will only be seen in blue and white. Can you cycle colors or something? Or maybe it random picks different colors every startup? Not a big deal obviously but would be neat.

The game saves all its settings as a PlusROM. So if you change the color combination for a game, the next time you start the ROM, it will show this combination.

[gliptitude]

On 4/26/2024 at 1:14 PM, Thomas Jentzsch said:

You could do an alternative version.

Suggestion accepted, provided you meant alternative titles. Or you meant make my own game called Paddlefield? Ha ha. No way.

 

I'll post it separate and "hidden" this time if I can figure it out because it adds up a lot for a non-high-priority thing, the titles.

 

.. I watched the video above.

 

@ZeroPage Homebrew gave a protracted test and commentary, but they didn't test ball stop?!?!?

 

Besides being the reason (I think) for the new (at first confusing) method of exiting games - it potentially addresses the overall response he gave at the end - that he doesn't feel like he's controlling the action. How useful ball stop is might be debated but no doubt it adds a new layer of user input. They missed that.

 

Two things I strongly corroborate, (photos are for the video time count if you want to track down):

 

Users expect to be able to defend with the paddles:

 

 

This symbol  is a problem in the player/AI selection:

 

 

It is confusing and misleading. It looks just like ball steer game mode icon. 

 

Alternative titles:

 

Spoiler

These are variations on the current title screen, different letter spacing and then different block spacing. I'm not especially pulling for any of them, but it's what occurs to me along the lines of the one chosen:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And now, something else and what I really rather advocate for:

 

Spoiler

This is another type design with different argument in favor.

 

 

It is just the simplest presentation of the positive/negative letters, and my preferred spacing.

 

It is maybe not the simplest to read, but is still read okay, I think.

 

Checkerboard, and maybe all titles considered so far, are more than is necessary, distinctive, and "risky", potentially misrepresent the game.

 

Besides reading Paddlefield, I think this one is an interesting image, but also kind of neutral or raw. 

 

Then I think how maybe it is less data than other designs and you could do two of them, inverting colors back and forth, and it reminds me of the neutral zone in Yars' Revenge, and watching visual code stream, or even like punch cards or tape:

 

(animated):

 

Little bit different:

 

(animated):

 

Now, maybe it hurts your eyes, but it's going to make an impression I think. Slower was not good for me. I couldn't make it any faster but wonder if it would actually look more smooth. Or maybe a speed frequency in between the ones available to me, slightly slower.

 

If you could somehow cycle 3 similar size configurations as these (two) I think it could be made to look like scrolling.

 

Beyond the given restrictions, but maybe not too crazy.

 

 

 

Edited April 28 by gliptitude

[Thomas Jentzsch]

9 hours ago, gliptitude said:

Suggestion accepted, provided you meant alternative titles. Or you meant make my own game called Paddlefield? Ha ha. No way.

The former of course.  

 

9 hours ago, gliptitude said:

.. I watched the video above.

 

@ZeroPage Homebrew gave a protracted test and commentary, but they didn't test ball stop?!?!?

 

Besides being the reason (I think)...

Yup.

9 hours ago, gliptitude said:

...for the new (at first confusing) method of exiting games - it potentially addresses the overall response he gave at the end - that he doesn't feel like he's controlling the action. How useful ball stop is might be debated but no doubt it adds a new layer of user input. They missed that.

Agreed. Unfortunately Darcy had to leave on very short notice, else I would have asked for that mode.

9 hours ago, gliptitude said:

Two things I strongly corroborate, (photos are for the video time count if you want to track down):

 

Users expect to be able to defend with the paddles:

I know, and I fully understand that expectation. But that would make it close to impossible to win the game that way. I will have to add something to the manual to make that clear.

9 hours ago, gliptitude said:

This symbol  is a problem in the player/AI selection:

It is confusing and misleading. It looks just like ball steer game mode icon. 

That was a bug. The initialization was wrong. Usually (and you can see this later in the video), it shows the current selection (e.g. Human vs AI).

9 hours ago, gliptitude said:

Alternative titles:

 

  Reveal hidden contents

These are variations on the current title screen, different letter spacing and then different block spacing. I'm not especially pulling for any of them, but it's what occurs to me along the lines of the one chosen:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks for these. You make it even harder to decide now.  

9 hours ago, gliptitude said:

This is another type design with different argument in favor.

 

 

It is just the simplest presentation of the positive/negative letters, and my preferred spacing.

 

It is maybe not the simplest to read, but is still read okay, I think.

Sorry, but do not like that one at all. To my eyes, it looks mainly looks like a jumble of pixel with some reversed 'D's. Yes, eventually you can recognize the name, but you have to try really hard. 

9 hours ago, gliptitude said:

Checkerboard, and maybe all titles considered so far, are more than is necessary, distinctive, and "risky", potentially misrepresent the game.

Here we fully disagree.  

9 hours ago, gliptitude said:

Now, maybe it hurts your eyes, but it's going to make an impression I think. Slower was not good for me. I couldn't make it any faster but wonder if it would actually look more smooth. Or maybe a speed frequency in between the ones available to me, slightly slower.

Yes, these hurt. And since I do not like the original idea, I think it makes litte sense to try to convince me here.