Paddlefield (was: Pong Wars) (Atari 2600)

[Albert]

2 minutes ago, sramirez2008 said:

This needs to go on the box. 😉

It's on a few of the boxes for the 2023 releases. 

 

 ..Al

[+sramirez2008]

Just now, Albert said:

It's on a few of the boxes for the 2023 releases. 

 

 ..Al

I meant the Platinum edition. 

[+ZeroPage Homebrew]

2 hours ago, sramirez2008 said:

I meant the Platinum edition. 

 

The Platinum Edition was just a joke, but the colour is decent!

 

There's really only Couch Compliance and not levels like Platinum, Gold, Silver, Bronze, etc to it. To qualify, you need to be able access all the options in the game without needing to press any buttons on the console.

 

- James

[Thomas Jentzsch]

6 minutes ago, ZeroPage Homebrew said:

There's really only Couch Compliance and not levels like Platinum, Gold, Silver, Bronze, etc to it. To qualify, you need to be able access all the options in the game without needing to press any buttons on the console.

I remember that different.  

[+ZeroPage Homebrew]

7 minutes ago, Thomas Jentzsch said:

I remember that different.  

 

Are you trying to make me keep track of even MORE things? Hahah.

 

- James

[+ZeroPage Homebrew]

ZeroPage Homebrew is playing Pong Wars on tomorrow's ZPH stream LIVE on Twitch! Hope you can join us!

 

Tue Feb 6, 2024 | LIVE @ 6PM PT | 9PM ET | 2AM GMT+1Day

WATCH LIVE: https://twitch.tv/zeropagehomebrew/

WATCH LATER: https://youtube.com/zeropagehomebrew/

 

6th Annual Atari Homebrew Awards Nominee Playthroughs:

• Best Atari 2600 Homebrew ≤ 4K (Original + Port)
• Best Atari 2600 WIP (Original)
• Best Atari 2600 WIP (Port)
• Atari Packaging

Games:

• Pong Wars (2024 WIP | 2600) by Thomas Jentzsch @Thomas Jentzsch
• Alien Holocaust II: Invasion Earth (2023 Final | 2600) by Bitnamic Software / Fernando "Bruce" Rodrigues Salvio @Fernando Rodrigues Salvio (Design and Code) / Pedro Pimenta (Music)

[Thomas Jentzsch]

7 hours ago, ZeroPage Homebrew said:

ZeroPage Homebrew is playing Pong Wars on tomorrow's ZPH stream LIVE on Twitch! Hope you can join us!

Thanks!

 

I still hope eventually you will play one of my games in an early show.  🤞

[+ZeroPage Homebrew]

11 hours ago, Thomas Jentzsch said:

Thanks!

 

I still hope eventually you will play one of my games in an early show.  🤞

 

 

Damn you timezones!!!!

 

- James

[Thomas Jentzsch]

Last night Pong Wars got played by @ZeroPage Homebrew.  

 

While watching the stream, I noticed a bug when the game is over. This is fixed with V0.61.

[+Karl G]

This is a game I hadn't gotten around to trying yet. It definitely looks a lot more fun than I was expecting! 

 

It looks like games can go pretty long, and I'm wondering if having an option to give the players more control could be a positive? If I understand correctly, the horizontal speed changes were removed, but maybe left and right could do something else like a tiny nudge of the ball in that direction in the style of video pinball? 

[Albert]

Adding a timer as an option could be a nice way of adding pressure, knowing that you can't go on indefinitely. 

 

 ..Al

[Thomas Jentzsch]

42 minutes ago, Karl G said:

It looks like games can go pretty long, and I'm wondering if having an option to give the players more control could be a positive? If I understand correctly, the horizontal speed changes were removed, but maybe left and right could do something else like a tiny nudge of the ball in that direction in the style of video pinball? 

It is already quite stressful to play*, that's why I removed the horizontal controls. I think, if I allow nudging, the removed stress would come back. 

 

Regarding the length, I think the goals are set a bit too high. Both, Tanya and James, were frequently close to winning. So if I set the goal e.g. 10 cells lower, the games should become  a lot quicker. Because extra cells are more and more disproportionately harder to achieve. Also the timer that @Albert has suggested might be a good idea.

 

BTW: The board that @ZeroPage Homebrew did not try during the show, offers the best chance for a quick win. If you manage to break through to your area fast enough, before the other side blocks it, you can win relatively quickly. I suppose I will add more boards like that.

 

*It seems that using a joystick makes a big difference here (learned that from the stream too). With a keyboard it is fine. But since it should be playable via console, I have to come up with something better. Maybe I will replace joystick with paddle controls. As when using a joystick, there should be three areas (up, neutral and down) depending on paddle position. But I hope this will be easier to the player's hands.

Edited February 7 by Thomas Jentzsch

[Thomas Jentzsch]

What do you think?

As of now the paddles are outside the cell area. Or should I move them inside? 

[+Karl G]

22 minutes ago, Thomas Jentzsch said:

What do you think?

As of now the paddles are outside the cell area. Or should I move them inside? 

I thought you didn't have enough kernel time for paddles? I think that outside makes the most sense. 

[Thomas Jentzsch]

16 minutes ago, Karl G said:

I thought you didn't have enough kernel time for paddles? I think that outside makes the most sense. 

As it turned out, there is less space for the game required than I had expected. So I went for large padding tables. Since the kernel is a 2LK now (with the balls still moving like in a 1LK), the paddings are much smaller and fit into one page each. The kernel is at 151 cycles now, with a one or two options to save 2 cycles or so. 

Edited February 8 by Thomas Jentzsch

[gliptitude]

I'm torn on several points, myself, if you don't mind lengthy post..

 

Do you lose a ball if it misses the bat?

 

Can't complain about introducing bats. Others previously suggested to and I also would have if I commented. But I got used to the idea of a restriction against them and geared my thought towards improving the nudging, which is a difficult maneuver for the player but also an idea I got used to and like. I would be sad to see it disappear completely, but maybe it is the right thing.

 

And now using paddles instead of joystick, how can I not be excited about that? But it definitely puts your couch badge in jeopardy. Swapping controls is more work than flipping the switches. Maybe it is low priority but I think it means a fundamental change in concept. I'd be in favor of trying big changes but also not what I was used to thus far in the rapid development.

 

Bats outside the boundary? I think they might have to be. Not sure how it would look and feel playing but it is a little awkward in the image posted. Maybe eliminate the drawn borders? Or just keep the ceiling and floor borders? Or maybe bat is outside but right up against the border. .. I also wonder if it would be a problem on the other cell designs when the ball doesn't reach the sides until cells are broken through to it, so nothing for player to control in the meantime.

 

Some things I was thinking previously is that maybe the nudging would be better if there was some feedback, like a sound effect or visual effect corresponding to joystick input. I think it might make the nudging feel more articulate than it currently does.

 

I also thought about bats that were not player controlled but either static or automated movement, and more of them like in foosball Pong games and within the playfield. Weird idea mainly based on what I thought might be way to sneak bats in past the restriction.

 

Something else I think somebody suggested a speed burst from the fire button but I agreed it is too fast to work. Maybe instead anti-burst, ball slows down on fire button? That would be useful. Or maybe even freezes completely and then you can choose a direction.

 

I think there were sound effects in version 3 only, which I liked.

 

 

[Thomas Jentzsch]

1 hour ago, gliptitude said:

I'm torn on several points, myself, if you don't mind lengthy post..

Not at all. Every feedback is welcome. And you seem to have about the same thoughts about the game that I have. Thanks a lot!

1 hour ago, gliptitude said:

Do you lose a ball if it misses the bat?

I don't think so. It would just bounce back from the border behind. Maybe with a penalty like reversing some random own cells.

1 hour ago, gliptitude said:

Can't complain about introducing bats. Others previously suggested to and I also would have if I commented. But I got used to the idea of a restriction against them and geared my thought towards improving the nudging, which is a difficult maneuver for the player but also an idea I got used to and like. I would be sad to see it disappear completely, but maybe it is the right thing.

Or maybe I can put both variations into it. 

1 hour ago, gliptitude said:

And now using paddles instead of joystick, how can I not be excited about that? But it definitely puts your couch badge in jeopardy.

I have some ideas which might still allow for the badge.  

1 hour ago, gliptitude said:

Swapping controls is more work than flipping the switches. Maybe it is low priority but I think it means a fundamental change in concept. I'd be in favor of trying big changes but also not what I was used to thus far in the rapid development.

I think the nudging can be done via paddles too. Without any major difference to joysticks.

1 hour ago, gliptitude said:

Bats outside the boundary? I think they might have to be. Not sure how it would look and feel playing but it is a little awkward in the image posted. Maybe eliminate the drawn borders? Or just keep the ceiling and floor borders?

There have to be early borders, else the opponent's balls would disappear outside the inner area. And I think the upper and lower borders are required for the player's own balls. Else they would bounce from nothing.

1 hour ago, gliptitude said:

Or maybe bat is outside but right up against the border. ..

Yes, that's another option I want to try. Both bats would have to be white then. I am not sure if that might be irritating a bit for the right player. I guess not.

 

Here is a mockup, which shows a problem (note the paddles have to be playfield, so their horizontal position and width is limitted). The lower left one looks a bit odd, no?

If I would move both four pixel inside (of course the left one would become dark then), the problem would disappear. But then the outer column on both sides might have to be fixed color. Else the paddles might disappear between cells reversed by the opponent. Though these will always be quite rare. Hm...

1 hour ago, gliptitude said:

I also wonder if it would be a problem on the other cell designs when the ball doesn't reach the sides until cells are broken through to it, so nothing for player to control in the meantime.

Right. The distance to the opposite side becomes quite long. And the advantage of the defending side will be even bigger than now. Moving the paddle towards the borders would help here.

1 hour ago, gliptitude said:

Some things I was thinking previously is that maybe the nudging would be better if there was some feedback, like a sound effect or visual effect corresponding to joystick input. I think it might make the nudging feel more articulate than it currently does.

I am not sure if that would make any difference. But I might experiment with it.

1 hour ago, gliptitude said:

I also thought about bats that were not player controlled but either static or automated movement, and more of them like in foosball Pong games and within the playfield. Weird idea mainly based on what I thought might be way to sneak bats in past the restriction.

So they would be a special kind of border, which adds a bit variety to the bouncing.

1 hour ago, gliptitude said:

Something else I think somebody suggested a speed burst from the fire button but I agreed it is too fast to work. Maybe instead anti-burst, ball slows down on fire button? That would be useful. Or maybe even freezes completely and then you can choose a direction.

Well, the fire button is definitely required for couch compliance.  

1 hour ago, gliptitude said:

I think there were sound effects in version 3 only, which I liked.

Sound is in since then. But not in the screensaver variation. I lately added two game over tunes lately. Since no one commented on them, I wonder if anyone heard them yet.  

Edited February 8 by Thomas Jentzsch

[Zoyx]

Have a speed penalty if you miss the ball. I like the 2nd mock-up with the paddle on the back wall. I am really curious how this plays out.

[Thomas Jentzsch]

52 minutes ago, Zoyx said:

Have a speed penalty if you miss the ball.

Good idea. I will try that too.

52 minutes ago, Zoyx said:

I like the 2nd mock-up with the paddle on the back wall.

Yes, looks cleaner and a lot closer to the original.

52 minutes ago, Zoyx said:

I am really curious how this plays out.

Me too.  

[gliptitude]

Excellent that you are trying so many variables.

 

1 hour ago, Thomas Jentzsch said:

Here is a mockup, which shows a problem (note the paddles have to be playfield, so their horizontal position and width is limited). The lower left one looks a bit odd, no?

Looks a bit odd but hard to tell what matters without playing it. Maybe it could be blue and you would only see break in border, and contrast with white cells. But it's only one cell condition shown. Not sure how it plays out and looks in others. I can't remember if different color paddles was already mentioned as not possible. .. Actually maybe ONLY a break in border to indicate paddle position is an idea? Or border is broken in addition to one white line on either side of the break. Not very Pong-like but maybe suits this new game and different scale/pace/look.

 

I was thinking front of paddles would exactly line up with border, which would solve that odd look, but "have to be playfield" means they crossover border like this? Hmm. 

 

* Edit. I see that you did mention different color paddle, but for a different reason and having the whole paddle inside the playfield. It's another variation I'd enjoy seeing. Also makes some sense I think that paddle is more impactful, reaching further and possibly hitting the ball with top/bottom ends. It's something because if the ball still bounces off the wall, paddle contact has to mean something more than only bouncing like the wall. Also spins, maybe bounces different.. hitting with ends could be fun though and easier than in Pong since you won't lose ball if you miss.

Edited February 8 by gliptitude

[Thomas Jentzsch]

6 minutes ago, gliptitude said:

 but "have to be playfield" means they crossover border like this? Hmm. 

That or the left and right borders have to be playfield and wide. That wouldn't look good, IMO.

 

Colors of the thin borders (missiles) are shared with the balls (players). Background and playfield have their own colors. There is little room for extra colors.

Edited February 8 by Thomas Jentzsch

[Thomas Jentzsch]

That looks betters,no?

[+Karl G]

11 minutes ago, Thomas Jentzsch said:

That looks betters,no?

I think so.

[Zoyx]

Lookin' good!

[Bomberman94]

The last one is the best.
The left paddle should also have some distance like the right one (if possible).