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Paddlefield (was: Pong Wars) (Atari 2600)

Thomas Jentzsch
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Armscar Coder Chopper Commander

+Armscar Coder

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I certainly agree with the Paddlefield votes.  But what first came to mind for me was something with "Tango" in it.  The preceding "It takes two to" could be implied.  Additionally, with tango meaning "target" or "enemy" in military speak, it could carry a double meaning.  "Tango Tango" could be a bit too much.  OK, Paddlefield it is.

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gliptitude Moonsweeper

gliptitude

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Tango-Paddle-Chroma

 

TV Color Bleep and Bloop

 

Color Blip

 

If it is Paddlefield or Paddle-anything, could be first in a series, next up Paddlequest or whichever lends to a viable concept.

 

I can see avoiding Paddle in the title for various reasons. But it is irresistible novelty with the names that keep coming.

 

I don't want to call a game Gravity Pong but I do want to play it, like you might imagine it working, (another game).

 

 

 

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McCallister Stargunner

+McCallister

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23 minutes ago, Thomas Jentzsch said:

Why is Paddlefield preferred over e.g. Paddlezone?

 

I am not a native speaker, so I might be missing something here.

Field invokes a vast tract of land to my ears, with hints of grandness. Much this game's layout, as opposed to Zone, which automatically gets me thinking of the tank game.

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Thomas Jentzsch Quadrunner

Thomas Jentzsch

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4 minutes ago, McCallister said:

Field invokes a vast tract of land to my ears, with hints of grandness. Much this game's layout, as opposed to Zone, which automatically gets me thinking of the tank game.

Makes sense. Thanks!

 

So Paddlefield is it.

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Nathan Strum Quadrunner

+Nathan Strum

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1 hour ago, Thomas Jentzsch said:

Why is Paddlefield preferred over e.g. Paddlezone?

 

I am not a native speaker, so I might be missing something here.

55 minutes ago, Armscar Coder said:

For me it is because it sounds like "Battlefield."

That was my immediate reaction. Battlefield is a much more common term than Battlezone (former Atari IP notwithstanding). Paddlezone sounds just like a pun on Battlezone for the sake of being a pun. That would be okay, but it tends to tie the two games together, when they have nothing in common. The name Paddlefield is unique.

 

Just try to get this song out of your head now: ;) 

 

This is also a really good point - I hadn't considered the vastness vs. zone comparison before:

52 minutes ago, McCallister said:

Field invokes a vast tract of land to my ears, with hints of grandness. Much this game's layout, as opposed to Zone, which automatically gets me thinking of the tank game.

 

The other reason I like Paddlefield (now that it's already been settled ;) ), is that the game makes full use of the playfield, so it's a nice nod to that.

 

- Nathan

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ZeroPage Homebrew Quadrunner

+ZeroPage Homebrew

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ZeroPage Homebrew is playing Paddlefield on tomorrow's ZPH stream LIVE on Twitch! Hope you can join us!

 

Games:

 

 

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gliptitude Moonsweeper

gliptitude

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18 hours ago, Thomas Jentzsch said:

Next is V0.90, first with the new 'Paddlefield' title. Changes:

  • added title screen
  • added small paddle (enabled when ball got missed)
  • reduced paddle sizes (I found them much too wide before)

 

I am not seeing a title screen at all. 

 

Shrinking paddle is neat and seems to work, adds some dynamism. Visually gratifying and also makes landing the paddle much more meaningful and consequential.

 

Major variables appear changed besides ones mentioned include the omission of the checker board, which I miss, (chiefly because it best demonstrates the color reflective paddle graphics effect that I really admire). I do like what I think are two new boards which both look and function different from others.

 

In AI vs AI games ball breaking through all the way and hitting opponent's wall does not win the game, in my repeated trials. Doesn't seem right.

 

I noticed and appreciated the increased nudge effect in previous update. But I can't tell for sure if it is right or helpful.

 

I still feel like nudging is underrepresented in the game and doesn't give what it could. One idea is Super Nudge mode, a nudge-only mode where the restrictions don't apply and you can always do it. 

 

A previous comment favors the nudge and compares to Video Pinball. I haven't played it  but reading descriptions it looks like the player has quite a bit more control nudging in that game. Can't do it exactly the same way for reasons but I wonder if it could otherwise be a model somehow.

 

Naming the game has been the most collaborative engagement so far. Maybe other parts of the game can get similar treatment somehow, (if that is desired).

 

 

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Thomas Jentzsch Quadrunner

Thomas Jentzsch

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8 minutes ago, gliptitude said:

I am not seeing a title screen at all. 

Oops, uploaded the wrong version. I have corrected this with V0.90a. Thanks for letting me know!

8 minutes ago, gliptitude said:

Major variables appear changed besides ones mentioned include the omission of the checker board, which I miss, (chiefly because it best demonstrates the color reflective paddle graphics effect that I really admire).

It wasn't very different to board #8 regarding game play. And it required more space, that's why I removed it.

8 minutes ago, gliptitude said:

I do like what I think are two new boards which both look and function different from others.

Yes, they allow to break through quite fast if you play well. I hope that works for others too.

8 minutes ago, gliptitude said:

In AI vs AI games ball breaking through all the way and hitting opponent's wall does not win the game, in my repeated trials. Doesn't seem right.

That's intentional. The AI vs AI games are screensavers, they should never end.

8 minutes ago, gliptitude said:

I noticed and appreciated the increased nudge effect in previous update. But I can't tell for sure if it is right or helpful.

It is a bit tricky to use, but it helps aiming for certain spots. 

8 minutes ago, gliptitude said:

I still feel like nudging is underrepresented in the game and doesn't give what it could. One idea is Super Nudge mode, a nudge-only mode where the restrictions don't apply and you can always do it. 

How should that work exactly?

8 minutes ago, gliptitude said:

A previous comment favors the nudge and compares to Video Pinball. I haven't played it  but reading descriptions it looks like the player has quite a bit more control nudging in that game. Can't do it exactly the same way for reasons but I wonder if it could otherwise be a model somehow.

I think the nudging there is much less strong than in my game.

8 minutes ago, gliptitude said:

Naming the game has been the most collaborative engagement so far. Maybe other parts of the game can get similar treatment somehow, (if that is desired).

I am running out of bytes (~330 left), but I am still open to ideas which are not too complicated to implement.

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gliptitude Moonsweeper

gliptitude

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18 hours ago, Thomas Jentzsch said:

How should that work exactly?

(super nudge):

The only time you cannot nudge is when a nudge is already in progress. Perhaps menu selection icon is something like an inverted recycling symbol ♻, with arrows pointing out, or whatever else works. I called this super nudge. Could be called anything else or not named. Or for an experiment and to avoid adding a mode, it is how existing nudge-only mode works, temporarily.

 

Maybe gameplay becomes too easy or too crazy. My suggestion, Do not solve that problem, for now. Try it out for the sake of providing a dynamic ball move and observing it. 

 

So that you can play with it and see what it is.

 

*Maybe what you find by doing big unreasonable experiment is another more practical idea that hasn't come up yet.


Currently I expect ball to go either up or down, and systematically so, according to clockwise or counterclockwise turn, respectively. That's what I expect and think is intended but I can't really tell it is what's happening.

 

More ideas and crazy, if you want, in alternate modes, the ball can move in a small complete circle with paddle turn, in one or the other direction.

 

Or ball moves all the way across screen left and right, at will.

 

18 hours ago, Thomas Jentzsch said:

I think the nudging there is much less strong than in my game.

Now I have tried Video Pinball.

 

The nudge is less strong, yes.

 

But it is also very responsive and articulate. The player feels they have direct control of it. It is clear and evident how it works.

 

Hold down fire button and push joystick in desired direction of nudge. It completely works and completely as expected. You are almost able to make the ball hover.

 

You can't do the exact same thing with paddles. But it is something I can refer to that exists. 

 

 

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Thomas Jentzsch Quadrunner

Thomas Jentzsch

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On 3/16/2024 at 1:26 PM, gliptitude said:

(super nudge):

The only time you cannot nudge is when a nudge is already in progress. Perhaps menu selection icon is something like an inverted recycling symbol ♻, with arrows pointing out, or whatever else works. I called this super nudge. Could be called anything else or not named. Or for an experiment and to avoid adding a mode, it is how existing nudge-only mode works, temporarily.

 

Maybe gameplay becomes too easy or too crazy. My suggestion, Do not solve that problem, for now. Try it out for the sake of providing a dynamic ball move and observing it. 

 

So that you can play with it and see what it is.

 

*Maybe what you find by doing big unreasonable experiment is another more practical idea that hasn't come up yet.

Yes, I will definitely play with that mode. Currently it is adding a constant value to the vertical speed. Instead I could add a larger value but for a shorter time. This will make the nudging more pronounced.

On 3/16/2024 at 1:26 PM, gliptitude said:

Currently I expect ball to go either up or down, and systematically so, according to clockwise or counterclockwise turn, respectively. That's what I expect and think is intended but I can't really tell it is what's happening.

Regarding the steering or when bouncing from the paddles in general?

On 3/16/2024 at 1:26 PM, gliptitude said:

More ideas and crazy, if you want, in alternate modes, the ball can move in a small complete circle with paddle turn, in one or the other direction.

Hm, not sure if that would work.

On 3/16/2024 at 1:26 PM, gliptitude said:

Or ball moves all the way across screen left and right, at will.

That would end the current game immediately. So the idea it needs some more thought.

On 3/16/2024 at 1:26 PM, gliptitude said:

Now I have tried Video Pinball.

 

The nudge is less strong, yes.

 

But it is also very responsive and articulate. The player feels they have direct control of it. It is clear and evident how it works.

 

Hold down fire button and push joystick in desired direction of nudge. It completely works and completely as expected. You are almost able to make the ball hover.

 

You can't do the exact same thing with paddles. But it is something I can refer to that exists. 

Agreed on that. I have suggested something above. Maybe this will work better.

 

It may take some time to get it implemented though. I have to go back to Pas De Deux.

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gliptitude Moonsweeper

gliptitude

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On 3/17/2024 at 11:06 AM, Thomas Jentzsch said:

Regarding the steering or when bouncing from the paddles in general?

 

I was referring to steering.

 

I think user wants to know and take for granted how it works, or else be able to learn. Currently, at least the quick impression and expectation I think, is that paddle turn in one direction is up and turn in the other direction is down. User chooses. After user finds out that maybe it isn't that way, they never really come to another alternate understanding. Or they settle on it that it just isn't as simple and intuitive as they had expected. In the universe of 2600 games, users (me anyway) are kind of accustomed to stuff not necessarily working, being a compromise or possibly being an obscure trick they'll figure out in the distant future. We know that it can't always work perfectly in an Atari game.

 

The nudge is always going to be a sneaky fringe thing I think. It's part of what is fun about it, and currently moreso than what is useful about it. How it works maybe you have to "cheat" or misrepresent it in the particular program implementation. 

 

Most of the ideas I'm giving are from a mentality of "push the button give me feedback", as a first principle. Then gameplay consequences are accounted for afterwards, perhaps used to choose which push-button-for-feedback scheme among several candidates is the one that is really plausible. Like you say, some potentially kill the game, and they are not plausible even in theory.

 

Now I'm thinking maybe paddle controller function is a major hurdle that I won't understand. It isn't always going to be centered when you want to do a ball move. How does program know not to do a ball move right away in cases where ball is bouncing off a bat at one of the position extremes?.. Recalls how you earlier described menus and reading paddle like a joystick press. But here the user doesn't have time to be so articulate with the control input.

 

Referring to ball move as "steering" suggests it is some kind of direct positional control by spinning the controller rotary switch. I think it isn't really that way, maybe couldn't even conceivably be that way, but it's desirable impression to keep in mind or how hopefully users can be made to feel or believe it is what's happening - steering.

 

Reading paddle position for bats and for balls simultaneously, how it works, or how it could work differently, IDK.

 

On 3/17/2024 at 11:06 AM, Thomas Jentzsch said:

Hm, not sure if that would work.

(Refers to circle movement) 

 

I have noticed the circle move at the core of your other mentioned game Pas De Deux, and it is part of the argument in favor for Paddlefield.

 

The circle move seems like a brilliant trick for faithfully drawing a circle shape in this graphics environment where directly representing a circle image is impossible. That is thrilling.

 

Other ways of thinking about it, if it goes like an airplane doing a loop-de-loop. The loop, if uninterrupted by collision, concludes with the ball in the same or similar spot it was at the beginning of the loop and on the same trajectory as before looping. Let's say now user does not really have positional control of it. They execute loop up or down (ascend/dive) and the loop proceeds. Either it completes the loop and will have had no gameplay consequence, or it hits a cell and bounces off on bounced trajectory.

 

Maybe you can only do it one time like within current nudge restrictions. Maybe it only goes up and according to any direction controller input. Or maybe if restrictions are lessened and multiple nudges are possible, first nudge is loop up, next nudge is loop down, alternating.

 

Doing full loop midair would be useless in game competition. But it is thing user can see clearly and test, probably enjoy, and then know what the function is moving forward.

 

It's also kind of thematically rewarding. Going with basic sneakiness of nudging at all - that is made up fantasy physics - ball is not acrobatic airplane it is ball - like in Video Pinball there is no such thing as directional nudging or balls hovering in air - but it is excellent fantasy. It also reminds one of a Bugs Bunny "curveball", what any kid imagines a curveball might be, which is absurd exaggeration of the real thing, funny and a kick.

 

.. Reworking the full screen horizontal ball move idea:

 

Ball becomes bullet.

 

When user chooses, the choice is to shoot. Ball breaks trajectory and goes straight right. //This one is just brainstorming alternatives. Not the most compelling one.

 

.. Whole other idea, addressing analog switch input on ball, maybe it controls ball speed in some alternate mode. Maybe it is always a switch position read and it functions as accelerate, positive and negative. It would have to be a mode without paddle/bats. But that would seem like a very pure implementation. I don't know if it would be fun or not or if it would be at all competitive.

 

User control test might be useful - an entry point where there are no cells and no competition or timer. Just balls and bats that take input so user can see.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by gliptitude
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Silvio Mogno Chopper Commander

Silvio Mogno

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Sometimes, very seldom, the screen goes out of sync.

 

Tried with Stella Emulator, there's a frame totally black, then a partially background colored frame and then the game recovers.

 

Don't know if this glitch was already known.

 

BTW an instant classic!

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