Experimental 2600+ Firmware and Dumper

[TPR]

Hi there @raz0red @Trebor @Ben from Plaion...

 

Do you guys think you can add some instructions on "How to update firmware..." to the first post of this thread like the original firmware update topics had?  We have a lot of people, for example, coming over from the AA Facebook group looking at this topic for the first time and are a little confused on how to update because there doesn't appear to be any instructions on how these utilities work.

 

Much appreciated!  Thank you!

[raz0red]

48 minutes ago, TPR said:

Hi there @raz0red @Trebor @Ben from Plaion...

 

Do you guys think you can add some instructions on "How to update firmware..." to the first post of this thread like the original firmware update topics had?  We have a lot of people, for example, coming over from the AA Facebook group looking at this topic for the first time and are a little confused on how to update because there doesn't appear to be any instructions on how these utilities work.

 

Much appreciated!  Thank you!

Yeah, I will reach out to @Trebor and get something on there.

 

Thanks,

Chris.

[TPR]

10 minutes ago, raz0red said:

Yeah, I will reach out to @Trebor and get something on there.

 

Thanks,

Chris.

Thank you guys!

[TPR]

@Trebor Thank you!!! 

[Trebor]

1 hour ago, TPR said:

Hi there @raz0red @Trebor @Ben from Plaion...

 

Do you guys think you can add some instructions on "How to update firmware..." to the first post of this thread like the original firmware update topics had?  We have a lot of people, for example, coming over from the AA Facebook group looking at this topic for the first time and are a little confused on how to update because there doesn't appear to be any instructions on how these utilities work.

 

Much appreciated!  Thank you!

1 hour ago, raz0red said:

Yeah, I will reach out to @Trebor and get something on there.

 

Thanks,

Chris.

 

Here we go...

 

The *CLICK HERE* hyperlink will be updated accordingly as new firmware releases are made public.

[raz0red]

3 minutes ago, Trebor said:

 

Here we go...

 

The *CLICK HERE* hyperlink will be updated accordingly as new firmware releases are made public.

Great, thank you very much @Trebor!

[MrChickenz]

4 hours ago, Trebor said:

 

The *CLICK HERE* hyperlink

I clicked the link and went back in time! That works good!

[+sramirez2008]

33 minutes ago, MrChickenz said:

I clicked the link and went back in time! That works good!

[stoogge]

I am hoping someone might be able to assist me. I was able to update the dumper, but can't get windows to load the driver for the firmware update. I've tried a windows 11 and windows 10 PC, but no luck. I just get a message saying best driver already installed, but when I check the driver properties is says no driver installed. I just don't know know what to do. At this rate I'll have to buy the 7800+ Just to get the update.  

[Ben from Plaion]

11 hours ago, stoogge said:

I am hoping someone might be able to assist me. I was able to update the dumper, but can't get windows to load the driver for the firmware update. I've tried a windows 11 and windows 10 PC, but no luck. I just get a message saying best driver already installed, but when I check the driver properties is says no driver installed. I just don't know know what to do. At this rate I'll have to buy the 7800+ Just to get the update.  

Hi, what does it show in windows device manager when the machine is plugged into the PC and switched on?

[+Fred_M]

11 hours ago, stoogge said:

I am hoping someone might be able to assist me. I was able to update the dumper, but can't get windows to load the driver for the firmware update. I've tried a windows 11 and windows 10 PC, but no luck. I just get a message saying best driver already installed, but when I check the driver properties is says no driver installed. I just don't know know what to do. At this rate I'll have to buy the 7800+ Just to get the update.  

Follow the instructions that were posted here:

 

 

You only need to install 1 driver for both the dumper and the firmware update. As you state that you were able to update the dumper it looks like you already successfully installed the driver. There is no separate driver for the firmware.

[John Stamos Mullet]

14 hours ago, stoogge said:

I am hoping someone might be able to assist me. I was able to update the dumper, but can't get windows to load the driver for the firmware update. I've tried a windows 11 and windows 10 PC, but no luck. I just get a message saying best driver already installed, but when I check the driver properties is says no driver installed. I just don't know know what to do. At this rate I'll have to buy the 7800+ Just to get the update.  

Do you have an evercade? Its driver is similar to the 2600+ firmware driver, but not compatible with both. 

[Dark Descent]

Updated to the latest firmware and received the Download boot fail message.  I searched this thread and found to try another usb port and that worked.  

 

For future generations.

[Dark Descent]

just updated the firm ware.  The first game I played was Draconian and it didn't work.  I tried a couple other homebrews that worked.  Any known issues with Draconian not playing?

[Trebor]

1 hour ago, Dark Descent said:

just updated the firm ware.  The first game I played was Draconian and it didn't work.  I tried a couple other homebrews that worked.  Any known issues with Draconian not playing?

The final/cartridge release of Draconian uses a hardware format referred to as "CDF" which is not supported. 

Additionally, here is a list of games that are known not to work, sorted according to the hardware format they utilize:

 

32K Melody Enhanced "CDF":
-Super Cobra Arcade

-Draconian

 

32K Melody Enhanced "CDFJ":
-Mappy
-Wizard of Wor
-Galagon
-Zoo Keeper
-Lady Bug Arcade
-RobotWar 2684

 

32K Melody Enhanced "CDFJ+":
-Gorf
-Qyx

 

64K Melody Enhanced "CDFJ+":
-Elevator Agent

 

128K Melody Enhanced "CDFJ+":
-Turbo Arcade

[Dark Descent]

1 hour ago, Trebor said:

The final/cartridge release of Draconian uses a hardware format referred to as "CDF" which is not supported. 

Additionally, here is a list of games that are known not to work, sorted according to the hardware format they utilize:

 

32K Melody Enhanced "CDF":
-Super Cobra Arcade

-Draconian

 

32K Melody Enhanced "CDFJ":
-Mappy
-Wizard of Wor
-Galagon
-Zoo Keeper
-Lady Bug Arcade
-RobotWar 2684

 

32K Melody Enhanced "CDFJ+":
-Gorf
-Qyx

 

64K Melody Enhanced "CDFJ+":
-Elevator Agent

 

128K Melody Enhanced "CDFJ+":
-Turbo Arcade

Thank you. I knew about the Champ Games titles. Didn't know about Draconian. Appreciate the heads up. 

[JetmanUK]

A question on all the homebrew games that use currently unsupported formats. Is there any reason that future carts that are manufactured can't utilise a compatible format? I'm guessing some tweaks to games would be required. 

Perhaps the formats could be tweaked to work on the 2600/7800 Plus too. So a game tweak and format tweak. I know Champ games have posted that they are looking at their tools, good! Great games. 😊

 

Sure, carts that are already in the wild wouldn't work, but ah well, anyone who bought them did so to play on original hardware anyway. If new versions work on OG and Atari+ then that would be fine. Check the cart label/box for the Atari + logo before you buy.

 

Buyers would just have to be careful on the used market, but in reality how many used homebrews that are still in production do you see at a reasonable price used? Outside of that, how many do you see at all? You would just buy the new version that works on all Atari's. Out of production carts are expensive anyway, keep em scalpers! 

 

If the above was implemented then the problem would be tiny one, and get less and less over time. It's already not that many that don't work anyway, and if devs want to sell more carts then it's in their interest to support as many models as possible. Markets change. 

 

I personally do own original hardware and enjoy using it, but not everyone will, and not everyone has any interest in buying an old used console, they will just buy the £100 one that's brand new, has a warranty, and play games that are compatible. Games that aren't are dead to them.

 

This is an Atari and dev issue hand in hand. Wanna sell more carts devs? Gotta play ball! And we know Champ games are 😊, other Devs, take notice!... Or sell less games 🤷🏻

Edited August 27 by JetmanUK

[Thomas Jentzsch]

14 minutes ago, JetmanUK said:

A question on all the homebrew games that use currently unsupported formats. Is there any reason that future carts manufactured can't utilise a compatible format? I'm guessing some tweaks to games would be required. 

AFAIK this is not a matter of the homebrewers, but of the hardware and drivers for it. What you probably have to do, is to implement a way which allows access to the whole cart ROM just for the 2600+. Effectively you are creating a workaround for the 2600+ weaknesses. (IMO it should be the other way around, the 2600+ should be able to play all carts without such problems and hacks.)

 

Also, the fact that the carts cannot be dumped is a protection against pirating. So, if you do not want to give up on this, you will have to find a way to e.g. encrypt the dump. And then decrypt it without making the required information available. I am not even sure if the latter is feasible with the dumper approach and the 2600+ hardware.

 

BTW: Homebrewers are usually developing just for the fun of it. The market is not even secondary at that time.

Edited August 27 by Thomas Jentzsch

[JetmanUK]

57 minutes ago, Thomas Jentzsch said:

AFAIK this is not a matter of the homebrewers, but of the hardware and drivers for it. What you probably have to do, is to implement a way which allows access to the whole cart ROM just for the 2600+. Effectively you are creating a workaround for the 2600+ weaknesses. (IMO it should be the other way around, the 2600+ should be able to play all carts without such problems and hacks.)

 

Also, the fact that the carts cannot be dumped is a protection against pirating. So, if you do not want to give up on this, you will have to find a way to e.g. encrypt the dump. And then decrypt it without making the required information available. I am not even sure if the latter is feasible with the dumper approach and the 2600+ hardware.

 

BTW: Homebrewers are usually developing just for the fun of it. The market is not even secondary at that time.

My main point was this - Atari (via help from this great community) ARE working on this, the most prolific homebrew devs Champ Games ARE working with them, so work IS being done. Many other homebrews work already, I myself have enjoyed Space Rocks, Deepstone Catacomb and Dungeon Stalker on my 2600 Plus, and I plan to buy more and support the development of new games.

 

We all want 100% of carts to work… but if this cannot be achieved via firmware/dumper updates then we are within the hardware constraints of the 2600 Plus, new versions of already released games could be made that will work on all consoles. Then you would only be left with exiting versions that don’t/can’t ever work. A good compromise. As I have said, those old carts were purchased to play on original hardware anyway, most purchases predating the existence of the 2600 Plus. Owners will happily continue to play them on original hardware.

 

Encrypting the cart with the key present in the Atari+ consoles sounds like a good idea, if possible, but no doubt hackers will be all over it though, everything gets hacked.

 

Obviously if devs don’t want to put the work in then that’s fine too, but if Atari can’t fix it at their end then their games are locked to OG hardware. Again that’s fine, if they want a smaller market for their games, or simply don’t want to/don’t think it’s worth their time to update their software then that’s their choice.

 

But surely some will look at Bob’s games and the rightful credit he is getting on the Atari website and social media posts and look across with perhaps… envy. It could be them too. All their hard work being enjoyed by more people, featuring in Atari’s official marketing, their games in print, published by Atari. The glory! Surely some would want that, they deserve it for pouring hours into entertainment that people love, their art being enjoyed and given the spotlight. A dream come true for many.

 

Or they can say, nope, I am not interested. Fine too, but perhaps a missed opportunity.

Edited August 27 by JetmanUK

[DEANJIMMY]

38 minutes ago, JetmanUK said:

My main point was this - Atari (via help from this great community) ARE working on this, the most prolific homebrew devs Champ Games ARE working with them, so work IS being done. Many other homebrews work already, I myself have enjoyed Space Rocks, Deepstone Catacomb and Dungeon Stalker on my 2600 Plus, and I plan to buy more and support the development of new games.

 

We all want 100% of carts to work… but if this cannot be achieved via firmware/dumper updates then we are within the hardware constraints of the 2600 Plus, new versions of already released games could be made that will work on all consoles. Then you would only be left with exiting versions that don’t/can’t ever work. A good compromise. As I have said, those old carts were purchased to play on original hardware anyway, most purchases predating the existence of the 2600 Plus. Owners will happily continue to play them on original hardware.

 

Encrypting the cart with the key present in the Atari+ consoles sounds like a good idea, if possible, but no doubt hackers will be all over it though, everything gets hacked.

 

Obviously if devs don’t want to put the work in then that’s fine too, but if Atari can’t fix it at their end then their games are locked to OG hardware. Again that’s fine, if they want a smaller market for their games, or simply don’t want to/don’t think it’s worth their time to update their software then that’s their choice.

 

But surely some will look at Bob’s games and the rightful credit he is getting on the Atari website and social media posts and look across with perhaps… envy. It could be them too. All their hard work being enjoyed by more people, featuring in Atari’s official marketing, their games in print, published by Atari. The glory! Surely some would want that, they deserve it for pouring hours into entertainment that people love, their art being enjoyed and given the spotlight. A dream come true for many.

 

Or they can say, nope, I am not interested. Fine too, but perhaps a missed opportunity.

I stay very relaxed about the few games which fail to dump currently on the 2600+

I keep my 7800 hooked up to play Atarivox games anyway and there will the Champ games be put in.

 

I hope the 7800+ will have more capability to dump them, if the current 2600+ MCU is the limitation.

And you know why? As it will sit next to my PAL 7800 and on this machine more carts fail to run than on the 2600+... that really pisses me of much more😅

 

Champ Games posted messages that they try to overcome obstacles with new type of carts.

We'll see. I could buy the new versions and sell the old? Since I have the 2600+ I got some NTSC versions instead of my PAL carts...would be a similar move.

 

FPGA will be too expensive for me and I like the fact, they can even patch bugs in existing carts or make Omega Race compatible to the CX78 because it runs on emulation🤗

Edited August 27 by DEANJIMMY

[JetmanUK]

24 minutes ago, DEANJIMMY said:

I stay very relaxed about the few games which fail to dump currently on the 2600+

I keep my 7800 hooked up to play Atarivox games anyway and there will the Champ games be put in.

 

I hope the 7800+ will have more capability to dump them, if the current 2600+ MCU is the limitation.

And you know why? As it will sit next to my PAL 7800 and on this machine more carts fail to run than on the 2600+... that really pisses me of much more😅

 

Champ Games posted messages that they try to overcome obstacles with new type of carts.

We'll see. I could buy the new versions and sell the old? Since I have the 2600+ I got some NTSC versions instead of my PAL carts...would be a similar move.

 

FPGA will be too expensive for me and I like the fact, they can even patch bugs in existing carts or make Omega Race compatible to the CX78 because it runs on emulation🤗

I agree, I am pretty chilled about this too, I am just thinking of a solution going forward.

 

I keep my light sixer next to my 2600+ (Im gonna stop calling it Plus, I know it's wrong, but I just like it!) too, for compatibility, things like the AtariVox, the MovieCart and the Harmony cart, driving controller, keypad, two games (see below). I have one PAL cart that just will not go into the light sixer's slot, it's flawless on the 2600+!

In fact I now have zero classic carts that do not work on the 2600+! Zero! I have two homebrews that do not, Boulderdash and Lode Runner.

 

Yes, that is true, emulation has the advantage that it can be tinkered with, good point.

Edited August 27 by JetmanUK

[Thomas Jentzsch]

50 minutes ago, JetmanUK said:

My main point was this - Atari (via help from this great community) ARE working on this, the most prolific homebrew devs Champ Games ARE working with them, so work IS being done. Many other homebrews work already, I myself have enjoyed Space Rocks, Deepstone Catacomb and Dungeon Stalker on my 2600 Plus, and I plan to buy more and support the development of new games.

 

We all want 100% of carts to work… but if this cannot be achieved via firmware/dumper updates then we are within the hardware constraints of the 2600 Plus, new versions of already released games could be made that will work on all consoles. Then you would only be left with exiting versions that don’t/can’t ever work. A good compromise. As I have said, those old carts were purchased to play on original hardware anyway, most purchases predating the existence of the 2600 Plus. Owners will happily continue to play them on original hardware.

 

Encrypting the cart with the key present in the Atari+ consoles sounds like a good idea, if possible, but no doubt hackers will be all over it though, everything gets hacked.

 

Obviously if devs don’t want to put the work in then that’s fine too, but if Atari can’t fix it at their end then their games are locked to OG hardware. Again that’s fine, if they want a smaller market for their games, or simply don’t want to/don’t think it’s worth their time to update their software then that’s their choice.

 

But surely some will look at Bob’s games and the rightful credit he is getting on the Atari website and social media posts and look across with perhaps… envy. It could be them too. All their hard work being enjoyed by more people, featuring in Atari’s official marketing, their games in print, published by Atari. The glory! Surely some would want that, they deserve it for pouring hours into entertainment that people love, their art being enjoyed and given the spotlight. A dream come true for many.

 

Or they can say, nope, I am not interested. Fine too, but perhaps a missed opportunity.

I think the fundamental difference in our views is, that you value the 2600+ equally to original hardware. Where at least for me, only the original 2600 is the real deal. With the 2600+ being a temporary device (just like the current incarnation of Atari) which tries to mimic the 2600. I am pretty sure the 2600 will still be here, when the 2600+ is long gone and has been replaced by a number of (hopefully improved) successors. For me these consoles are moving targets. And no homebrewer will be interested to go back to his old projects over and over again to tailor them to a new device. IIRC we had this discussion with the Flashbacks already.

 

Don't get me wrong, I like that people are buying more homebrews to play them on the 2600+. And I like that others try to make existing games available to the 2600+ if possible. But I doubt many homebrewers will restrict themselves to the limited (and it always will be) 2600+ compatibility.

Edited August 27 by Thomas Jentzsch

[+Fred_M]

15 minutes ago, DEANJIMMY said:

I stay very relaxed about the few games which fail to dump currently on the 2600+

 

FPGA will be too expensive for me and I like the fact, they can even patch bugs in existing carts or make Omega Race compatible to the CX78 because it runs on emulation🤗

 

I agree with this statement. Atari and Plaion are commercial companies and need to make some money. From a commercial perspective a cheaper emulation machine that is plug and play on current TVs will attract a much larger audience than an expensive FPGA machine. It is impressive that the firmware is still being improved so many months after the release and is available publicly. Also the release of new games (at a low price with worldwide distribution) is something I would not have expected until a year ago 😀

[Dionoid]

11 hours ago, Trebor said:

Additionally, here is a list of games that are known not to work, sorted according to the hardware format they utilize:

 

32K Melody Enhanced "CDF":
-Super Cobra Arcade

-Draconian

 

32K Melody Enhanced "CDFJ":
-Mappy
-Wizard of Wor
-Galagon
-Zoo Keeper
-Lady Bug Arcade
-RobotWar 2684

 

32K Melody Enhanced "CDFJ+":
-Gorf
-Qyx

 

64K Melody Enhanced "CDFJ+":
-Elevator Agent

 

128K Melody Enhanced "CDFJ+":
-Turbo Arcade

Missing from this list:

 

32K Melody Enhanced "CDFJ":
-Lode Runner

 

32K Melody Enhanced "3E"*:
-Boulder Dash

 

* note: in this case, the Melody board is only used for bank switching, not as co-processor

Edited August 27 by Dionoid

[AtariYMás009]

Since the Atari 2600+ is being distributed with the latest revision of the experimental firmware and the 7800+ will be released with the same firmware as well...
Wouldn't this be a good time to try to implement the menu to access the 50/60Hz and phosphor effect settings?

 

Because I think I speak for everyone who has this problem when I say that it is very annoying to play games like Frogger, Joust, Venture and many others in this way.

 

And apart from the fact that as I said I think it is the right time, I have brought up the subject again since the problem has happened to me in another game, this one being Mario Bros, where the fireballs disappear for a certain time making you lose lives without knowing why.