Archiving disks

[rkindig]

What workflow is best for archiving real disks to virtual disks??  What does everyone use?

 

I’m thinking to use a real floppy drive (1050 or 810) and an SDrive MAX, SIO2SD, or FujiNet for the virtual drive.

 

Load a virtual DOS disk in drive D1:, use a real drive for D2: with the disk to be archived, and use FujiNet or SDrive MAX for D3: for saving the virtual ATR to a blank formatted virtual disk.

 

With FujiNet, it would seem that the Atari would have to be rebooted every time a new disk needs to be archived, unless I’m missing some feature I’m not aware of.  Can you load new virtual disks without going back to FujiNet, putting a new blank virtual disk into a slot, and rebooting?

 

thanks in advance

 

Randy

[Houdini]

With SIO2PC you can make ATRs of real disks all day long without ever re-booting anything. It uses the Pro-System app which can talk directly to the 1050 so you could do something different on the Atari computer at the same time if you like as long as it's not disk based.

 

https://www.atarimax.com/sio2pc/documentation/

Edited February 21 by Houdini

[+CharlieChaplin]

I am suing, ermm using SIO2PC and RespeQT.

Here is how: On the Atari end, very old SIO2PC from the old DOS PC days, connected to it a converter cable that converts 15 (?) pins to DB9, connected to that a Digitus stick that converts serial to USB, connected to this a USB cable that goes into the USB port of my Windows computer. Simply works.

 

(I also have several newer SIO2PC-USB cables, but it looks like I am too stupid to get them working, so I am using this "simple" solution.)

 

PC harddisk acts as D1:, while real 1050 is setup as D2: and copying is done with Copy 2000 and a Speedy upgraded 1050 drive.

 

[_The Doctor__]

or get a super card pro / cryoflux / bit writer what have you and use a low density 360k double sided disk drive and make your back ups in any way you like, including commercial copy protected disks, this can help with even damaged disks.

keep it clean dry and lubricated, and keep making sure it's clean dry and lubricated.

This keeps you from putting wear and tear on your real Atari drives and gives you the best chance of getting data without damaging disks that might already be loosing medium. rabbit's fur and felt pads tend to eat that stuff and clog up. A double sided low density drive has two hard smooth head, so less damage. This is why I use the XF551 for ATR back ups when no other method is available.

[+bf2k+]

I use an 800XL with a Rambo 256k mod to read the disks from either a Happy 1050 or an Indus GT with Ramcharger, and write to ATRs located on a PC in APE thru an APE cable.

 

I use two batch files... one for the 1050 and one for the Indus to call Konrad's HSDC copying program.

IIRC, I use SpartaDOS X 4.49.

 

Depending on the disk, sometimes the Happy reads faster... sometimes the Indus.

 

All in all, this works well for me.

[SenorRossie]

I've documented my workflow (on toolkit) on github: https://github.com/senorrossie/sh-archive2atr

 

I mainly use the shell on Linux, so a Raspberry Pi (clone) and sio2pc were a logical choice for me. Althought RespeQT would've been an option as well.

[sup8pdct]

Back in the day (90's) I used dos version of Ape, Blackbox with the disk edit software, 1050 with superarchiver, xf551 and couple of std floppy drives on the BB floppy board, and sio2pc interface that i made.

Most disks copied ok. The ones that didn't, i used different floppy mechs to try and read the sectors that didn't read in the inital copy. Stepping backwards sometimes worked, slowing down disk with finger sometimes worked, swapping disk into different mech sometimes worked.

Today, i use respeQT and a usb to sio interface and my 1st and favorite 1050. Blackbox and std floppies if disk is hard to read.

[TGB1718]

I did mine many years ago (unprotected disks) using SIO2PC on an old laptop using the old DOS version,

easy to create blank .ATR's and mount new ones as you go, no re-boot, just copy, copy, copy

 

I just used the native "copy disk" on whatever version of DOS was on each original disk.

 

[vitoco]

In my experience, the main problem was the poor quality of the diskettes I used. It took me some retries to get all diskette sectors at least once for many of them, and then merge the resulting ATRs to build a good disk copy (in some cases I just ignore a read error because it was over an empty or irrelevant file sector like DOS's).

 

I used a 1050-2-PC cable (similar to SIO2PC) to connect the 1050 directly to a PC, and ProSystem software with log enabled to get a map of good/bad sectors and then use a script to perform the merge using those maps.

 

I also used (a few times) a SIO2SD device to copy disks using any disk copier in my 800XL, including a BASIC one I wrote to perform the sector read retries over unstable diskettes (but it was so slow).

 

[+Larry]

Obviously several ways to skin the proverbial cat.  I found Win APE (with USB) the easiest, and I did hundreds of unprotected disks, years ago.  Registered APE is Da bomb! "Trial" APE is nearly as good for this application.

[kenp]

I'm going to throw in a warning that I ran into when I unpacked my old Atari 320XE, ATR8000 and floppy drives and disks last year.  (I follow the forum and will get back to it.) 

 

A good many of my disks had grown a mould on their surface even though they were in the same space as where we live.  not in a damp garage or basement.  Not just anywhere but where the floppy disk sleeve liner touched the floppy disk medium, sounded like I'd put a sand paper disk in the drive.  If you're taking a bunch of floppy disks out of storage for this, turn the medium by hand so you can see it in the window and make sure the surface is still clean.

[cx2k]

@rkindig I pretty much spend most of my nights doing some archiving. Unless the disks are copy-protected, all you need is the computer, drive, and an SIO2USB from Atarimax. Simple to use. Just create load a virtual image as D1:, set your physical drive to D2: and use MyCopyR to duplicate the floppy. I would also caution about looking for dirt/mold on disks. I actually keep the top of my 1050 off so I can clean the head regularly (q-tip & 99% alcohol), burst of canned air to dry it.

[_The Doctor__]

3 minutes ago, cx2k said:

@rkindig I pretty much spend most of my nights doing some archiving. Unless the disks are copy-protected, all you need is the computer, drive, and an SIO2USB from Atarimax. Simple to use. Just create load a virtual image as D1:, set your physical drive to D2: and use MyCopyR to duplicate the floppy. I would also caution about looking for dirt/mold on disks. I actually keep the top of my 1050 off so I can clean the head regularly (q-tip & 99% alcohol), burst of canned air to dry it.

exactly, clean and dry! Both disks and drives.

SIO2PC USB from AtariMax with APE and ProSystem, is excellent for personal disks, normal copies and back ups, but if it's about preservation and restoration etc. You really do want those other options mentioned above to get the job done the best it can be.

[rkindig]

4 minutes ago, cx2k said:

@rkindig I pretty much spend most of my nights doing some archiving. Unless the disks are copy-protected, all you need is the computer, drive, and an SIO2USB from Atarimax. Simple to use. Just create load a virtual image as D1:, set your physical drive to D2: and use MyCopyR to duplicate the floppy. I would also caution about looking for dirt/mold on disks. I actually keep the top of my 1050 off so I can clean the head regularly (q-tip & 99% alcohol), burst of canned air to dry it.

Excellent, thanks for the tips everyone!

 

sounds like the overwhelming favorite for this is AtariMax SIO2PC.  I actually love that peripheral and the APE software.

 

I’m not familiar with MyCopyR.

 

great tip about cleaning the head regularly.  These disks look pretty clean, but you never know

[+DjayBee]

57 minutes ago, rkindig said:

 

I’m not familiar with MyCopyR.

If you have read errors and want to try to repair as much as possible, find some way to log which sectors are bad and try to find a copy program which keeps every byte read from bad sectors. 

[TGB1718]

15 minutes ago, DjayBee said:

I’m not familiar with MyCopyR

Mycopyr! 2.1.atrReally easy utility, just boot with this.

[+DjayBee]

This ^^ is not for me but @rkindig

[_The Doctor__]

one other note, make sure the disks spin very freely in their jackets before you process them.

it's happened a few times that persons working on this sort of project think the disk is bad but the jacket edges are flattened and the disk won't spin or spins slowly due to drag. There may be write protect tabs or number labels that have fallen off and are inside the jacket as well. If something is missing and it's not in the sleeve check the disk itself as this is bad for the disk and terrible for the drive (belts,motor,et al.)

Edited February 22 by _The Doctor__

[mozzwald]

20 hours ago, rkindig said:

With FujiNet, it would seem that the Atari would have to be rebooted every time a new disk needs to be archived, unless I’m missing some feature I’m not aware of.  Can you load new virtual disks without going back to FujiNet, putting a new blank virtual disk into a slot, and rebooting?

I just double checked and the webui does not have an option to create a new disk which would be useful for this. As a work around you could create a bunch of new disks from CONFIG on your SD Card or local TNFS server if you run one. Then use a disk copier of your choice to copy a disk to the blank disk image. When done, use the webui to mount the next blank disk and so on. No need to reboot to CONFIG each time with these steps.

[_The Doctor__]

name/label, generate, and mount should be as easy as,

select - Create Disk, enter diskname (8 chars long), select size (DS DD etc)

on pressing enter it should generate diskname.atr and mount it

That would be useful

diskxxx - mount each premade on and rename it later on some other machine is a real pita, and makes the head hurt.

Edited February 22 by _The Doctor__

[TZJB]

20 hours ago, rkindig said:

What workflow is best for archiving real disks to virtual disks??  What does everyone use?

 

I’m thinking to use a real floppy drive (1050 or 810) and an SDrive MAX, SIO2SD, or FujiNet for the virtual drive.

 

Load a virtual DOS disk in drive D1:, use a real drive for D2: with the disk to be archived, and use FujiNet or SDrive MAX for D3: for saving the virtual ATR to a blank formatted virtual disk.

 

With FujiNet, it would seem that the Atari would have to be rebooted every time a new disk needs to be archived, unless I’m missing some feature I’m not aware of.  Can you load new virtual disks without going back to FujiNet, putting a new blank virtual disk into a slot, and rebooting?

 

thanks in advance

 

Randy

 

I have done this quite recently and found that the easiest method was to use RespecQt running on Windows 10 on an old laptop PC (Core2duo) to emulate up to 8 disk drives to copy to from a Lazer enhanced Atari 1050. You do need a USB to SIO cable but they are easy to make.

 

The bonus of a running a PC to back up with is, not only can you use long filenames for the ATR, but Altirra can be installed which can verify the images if necessary while emulating Atari 8 bit hardware of varying types. It can also be used to update your SdriveMAX and Fujinet when necessary.

 

This came about after trying SDriveMAX which to me was impossible, and Fujinet to a TNFS server which was semi successful but took much longer and was flakey at the time (the bug has been fixed now). As you suggest, without a TNFS server directory that can be remotely managed by a Windows mapped network share, it is hard to manage new ATR images with a Fujinet, but the WebUI does allow you to swap existing images if they have been pre-created in Fujinet.

 

Thus my preference is for RespecQt with which I can easily save my ATR images to a local disk, or to the TNFS directory using a mapped network drive so Fujinet can access the files.

 

As people have suggested, just create one of each size of blank ATR file and duplicate it to the number required.

 

With so many drives available I could not find many copiers that actually utilised more that D1: and D2: so I compromised with just 2 copiers, those being Happy Sector Copier 7.1 which can use some extended memory, and Diskcopy TurboDOS which supports 4 drives and can optionally ignore errors. Diskcopy has a bug which can detect the disk density as Quad sometimes which is not helpful, but Happy Sector Copier always works so long as the disk read is error free.

 

To duplicate protected disks I chose a different route as I also have an Atari ST. I chose a Greaseweazle device which connects to standard disk drives interfaces and works very well.

[_The Doctor__]

That's what I didn't remember the list greaseweazle, the buffered version...

[rkindig]

On 2/22/2024 at 1:36 PM, mozzwald said:

I just double checked and the webui does not have an option to create a new disk which would be useful for this. As a work around you could create a bunch of new disks from CONFIG on your SD Card or local TNFS server if you run one. Then use a disk copier of your choice to copy a disk to the blank disk image. When done, use the webui to mount the next blank disk and so on. No need to reboot to CONFIG each time with these steps.

When using the WebUI, I don't see how to mount a disk on the fly at all.  There's a MOUNT ALL SLOTS option, which doesn't appear to do anything, and I have the option to EJECT disks, but that seems to be it.

[mozzwald]

8 minutes ago, rkindig said:

When using the WebUI, I don't see how to mount a disk on the fly at all.  There's a MOUNT ALL SLOTS option, which doesn't appear to do anything, and I have the option to EJECT disks, but that seems to be it.

Click on a Host Slot to browse the files in the host, then select a file and select the slot... just like in CONFIG  

[rkindig]

15 minutes ago, mozzwald said:

Click on a Host Slot to browse the files in the host, then select a file and select the slot... just like in CONFIG  

ugh, of course!  thanks sir