JPF997 Posted March 20 Share Posted March 20 (edited) I've seen a few people on this website claim that modern gaming starts with the Dreamcast ( and everything before it is considered retro ), I respectfully disagree, if we're being objective here modern gaming starts with the 7th Generation aka the Xbox 360 , PS3 and Wii era. It was during the 7th Gen that digital games, digital stores,Blu Ray discs for physical games and online gaming became truly mainstream, as well as bad practices that have become commonplace like patching games after release, releasing multiple dlc's for each game, micro transactions, season passes, online passes, paying for online on consoles etc. None of the bad elements of modern gaming were present during the 6th generation ( Dreamcast, PS2, GameCube and OG Xbox ), this generation (6th) is sort of in-between classic and modern gaming, you see elements of both but it's not fully one or the other, it's a transitional period more than anything else. Edited March 20 by JPF997 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanooki Posted March 20 Share Posted March 20 You left out one main key ingredient of that list that Wii got slapped around for, HD gaming. That along with the rest there, the asinine over monetization and nickel and diming people to death to get the full game, not a stunt prior pulled all comes up in this era which is 'modern gaming' as well. Before that for better or worse due to lack of console storage to abuse, being under high def and the rest is a hard line in the stand of what was and is. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPF997 Posted March 20 Author Share Posted March 20 9 minutes ago, Tanooki said: You left out one main key ingredient of that list that Wii got slapped around for, HD gaming. That along with the rest there, the asinine over monetization and nickel and diming people to death to get the full game, not a stunt prior pulled all comes up in this era which is 'modern gaming' as well. Before that for better or worse due to lack of console storage to abuse, being under high def and the rest is a hard line in the stand of what was and is. Technically I think there are some console mods that allow the OG Xbox and the Dreamcast to reach HDMI output, the PS2 is capped at 480i because of Sony's incompetence ( or greed ), GameCube I don't know what the hypothetical max resolution is. Regardless I agree with your main point, things have no doubt gotten worse since the 7th generation in terms of gaming companies nickel and diming us gamers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zzip Posted March 20 Share Posted March 20 19 minutes ago, Tanooki said: You left out one main key ingredient of that list that Wii got slapped around for, HD gaming. That along with the rest there, the asinine over monetization and nickel and diming people to death to get the full game, not a stunt prior pulled all comes up in this era which is 'modern gaming' as well. Before that for better or worse due to lack of console storage to abuse, being under high def and the rest is a hard line in the stand of what was and is. Yeah the Wii doesn't quite fit the modern mold. Not just lack of HD, but it was still dependent on physical media. For online sales, WiiWare was a completely separate library from what was sold on physical disc. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanooki Posted March 20 Share Posted March 20 @JPF997 Well yeah, and that's not stock -- we're talking stock here not theory made practice. The gamecube I just got rid of this year for good I had the external HDMI mod for that, didn't make it a current gen system, no more than the hi def kit in my top loader NES. One might be able to vaguely argue a modern boutique FPGA system but that's splitting hairs. As @zzip said, basically that, when it comes to the Wii it was an outlier. The Gamecube was capped at 480i as well, as was the xbox they all were up to the max output standard of a normal pre-LCD era of CRT TVs at the 480 level. It was the PS3/360 era where you finally had the HDMI output if not actual port on the system itself and intended output to be 720 minimum if not 1080i/p and all the baggage of internal storage and the abuses it snowballed into ever since...all birthed there as 'modern gaming' for better or worse. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TampaBay Posted March 20 Share Posted March 20 Maybe this is what you meant by "online gaming" and I don't know what years or platforms this coincides with, but another "theme" for me that defines modern gaming is all these kids sitting in their bedrooms with headsets on talking to strangers playing 1st person shooters. Maybe it's fun, I have no idea, I have never once played an online console game with other players from across the world, but that's the image that comes to mind for me. I'm glad my memories of gaming when I was a kid are me and a bunch of my friends all in the same room having a laugh and playing everything from OG Atari 2600 to Genesis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TampaBay Posted March 20 Share Posted March 20 (edited) Double post. Edited March 20 by TampaBay Post posted twice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCHufnagel Posted March 20 Share Posted March 20 There are plenty of Gamecube and PS2 games that have 480p mode. Some are even widescreen. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razzie.P Posted March 20 Share Posted March 20 3 hours ago, TampaBay said: Maybe it's fun, I have no idea, I have never once played an online console game with other players from across the world, but that's the image that comes to mind for me. I'm glad my memories of gaming when I was a kid are me and a bunch of my friends all in the same room having a laugh and playing everything from OG Atari 2600 to Genesis. Embrace it and play with your friends instead of strangers, and you may see the appeal. I'm a 70's/80's kid too, and I have those same memories of my friends and I in the same room playing all consoles. But thankfully, we (some of us, at least) embraced the online thing asap and continued making those memories even after we were grown and scattered. I'm glad my memories of gaming with my friends isn't restricted to a small section of my life and grateful that modern tech allows us to still stay connected, hang out, and continue building those memories. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TampaBay Posted March 20 Share Posted March 20 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Razzie.P said: Embrace it and play with your friends instead of strangers, and you may see the appeal. I'm a 70's/80's kid too, and I have those same memories of my friends and I in the same room playing all consoles. But thankfully, we (some of us, at least) embraced the online thing asap and continued making those memories even after we were grown and scattered. I'm glad my memories of gaming with my friends isn't restricted to a small section of my life and grateful that modern tech allows us to still stay connected, hang out, and continue building those memories. Agreed! I might play online with my buddies and think it's awesome. Absolutely. I just never had the opportunity so I can't say either way. Not for any particular reason, but I also never wound up playing the first-person shooters too much, and I think (but could be wrong) that a good amount of the online stuff is that type of game, Halo, Call of Duty, etc. I mostly play driving games, side-scrollers, etc. Who knows, maybe I'll check it out now! What do you guys all play? It's funny, while I was thinking about all of this, I pulled up on YouTube the scene from the movie "Swingers" where they're all playing the NHL '93 ice hockey game on Genesis I think, while they're getting ready to go out to the bars and party, and that totally reminds me of what is was like back then. That's obviously when I was a little older past the Atari 2600 days! Edited March 20 by TampaBay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razzie.P Posted March 20 Share Posted March 20 1 hour ago, TampaBay said: Agreed! I might play online with my buddies and think it's awesome. Absolutely. I just never had the opportunity so I can't say either way. Not for any particular reason, but I also never wound up playing the first-person shooters too much, and I think (but could be wrong) that a good amount of the online stuff is that type of game, Halo, Call of Duty, etc. I mostly play driving games, side-scrollers, etc. Who knows, maybe I'll check it out now! What do you guys all play? We're all over the place, but I rarely play shooters. Some of them play competitive matches a lot in games like COD, Rainbow 6 and such, but for the stuff that we play (we, with me included) it's primarily co-op gaming. We'll play through the co-op campaigns of shooters like Halo, Gears of War and such, but some of us have gone through many, many playthroughs of all the "souls" games. We've poured several hundred hours into the newer Monster Hunter stuff. The EDF Series is a campy blast when played with friends. A TON of awesome memories from the original Helldivers (I haven't picked up the new one yet, but I hear it's awesome, too) The Dynasty Warriors type of games (there's a bunch) usually aren't great on their own, but become great hack n' slash fun when played with friends. Same for the Borderlands games. Bro Force was pretty special and we come back to it frequently. Not sure we'll every stop coming back to Torchlight 2. I could keep going, but it'll get to be a long, long post 😁 Oh, you mentioned driving -- we also hit some racers co-op modes whenever they care to put them in. The F1 series included co-op where you play on the same team, and that kept at least one friend and myself tied up for months. Co-Op racing is rare, though, but would love to see more. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TampaBay Posted March 20 Share Posted March 20 6 minutes ago, Razzie.P said: We're all over the place, but I rarely play shooters. Some of them play competitive matches a lot in games like COD, Rainbow 6 and such, but for the stuff that we play (we, with me included) it's primarily co-op gaming. We'll play through the co-op campaigns of shooters like Halo, Gears of War and such, but some of us have gone through many, many playthroughs of all the "souls" games. We've poured several hundred hours into the newer Monster Hunter stuff. The EDF Series is a campy blast when played with friends. A TON of awesome memories from the original Helldivers (I haven't picked up the new one yet, but I hear it's awesome, too) The Dynasty Warriors type of games (there's a bunch) usually aren't great on their own, but become great hack n' slash fun when played with friends. Same for the Borderlands games. Bro Force was pretty special and we come back to it frequently. Not sure we'll every stop coming back to Torchlight 2. I could keep going, but it'll get to be a long, long post 😁 Oh, you mentioned driving -- we also hit some racers co-op modes whenever they care to put them in. The F1 series included co-op where you play on the same team, and that kept at least one friend and myself tied up for months. Co-Op racing is rare, though, but would love to see more. Awesome, thanks. I'm going to check out some of those titles to see what they're like. I just watched a couple of YouTube videos on a few of them, and Earth Defense Force 4.1 looks pretty great! I feel like I'd really like that game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roots.genoa Posted March 20 Share Posted March 20 9 hours ago, JPF997 said: I've seen a few people on this website claim that modern gaming starts with the Dreamcast ( and everything before it is considered retro ) For starters you read my post wrong. I said the Dreamcast was retro as well. Modern gaming would start with PS2/NGC/Xbox. That being said, if I guarantee you a lot of retrogamers used to think that way, I suspect at least some of them changed their minds recently, since it's obvious these three systems are starting to show their age. Wii is indeed a special case, but people still have a hard time considering PS3 and 360 retro. Yet they surely are (they're not produced anymore). 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPF997 Posted March 20 Author Share Posted March 20 (edited) 57 minutes ago, roots.genoa said: For starters you read my post wrong. I said the Dreamcast was retro as well. Modern gaming would start with PS2/NGC/Xbox. That being said, if I guarantee you a lot of retrogamers used to think that way, I suspect at least some of them changed their minds recently, since it's obvious these three systems are starting to show their age. Wii is indeed a special case, but people still have a hard time considering PS3 and 360 retro. Yet they surely are (they're not produced anymore). A lot of people underestimate the Wii's capabilities, Mario Galaxy 2 and Twilight Princess don't look that inferior to Mario Odyssey and Breath of the Wild, Smash Bros Brawl doesn't look that inferior to Ultimate either, if we view the PS3 and the 360 as modern systems I don't see why the Wii shouldn't be viewed that way too. (Also Roots I wasn't directly referencing or taking a shoot at your post, just making an observation on the general consensus I've seen from people on the site in regards to this topic ). Edited March 20 by JPF997 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenixdownita Posted March 20 Share Posted March 20 (edited) 8 hours ago, Tanooki said: Gamecube was capped at 480i as well, as was the xbox they all were up to the max output standard of a normal pre-LCD era of CRT TVs at the 480 level. Wrt og Xbox there were tons of games 480p and 30-40 at 720p all via the official component cable …check it out https://consolemods.org/wiki/Xbox:Games_with_Alternate_Display_Modes (pal land saw none of it as component was not really a thing) as we know the Dreamcast had the vga box, the gc the digital cable (removed in dol101), and even the ps2 had component support in quite a few games as well https://www.psdevwiki.com/ps2/Games_With_Alternative_Display_Modes . You are right that hi-def proper is 360/ps3 territory … even if for proper 1080p we had to wait until one/ps4 … but still the change in supported resolution was obvious already (240p was basically the same since the 80s … Coleco, nes, genesis, snes, pce, ps1 , n64 and Saturn are all 240p machines … couple exception games for ps1, Saturn, n64 but the uptick in gfx res is on the next gen) Edited March 20 by phoenixdownita 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roots.genoa Posted March 21 Share Posted March 21 9 hours ago, JPF997 said: Roots I wasn't directly referencing or taking a shoot at your post, just making an observation on the general consensus I've seen from people on the site in regards to this topic ). Well maybe but I've never heard anyone that wouldn't consider the Dreamcast retro, even though some consider it was the first system to offer "decent" 3D. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juansolo Posted March 25 Share Posted March 25 I consider the 7th gen to be the last generation of retro consoles and the 8th to be the start of the modern age. Sure things were introduced in 7th gen that would become the new age like online play and mass storage, but it wasn't the norm yet... Up to and including the 7th gen, you can buy a physical game, put it into a console and you can play it. From the PS3, Wii and Xbox360 onwards, there are digital download games, there is online play through the console providers, there is mass storage to allow for patching post release. Truly that is when modern gaming was introduced and not for the better. Anything before I consider retro, because it's from the previous mentality of the industry. Everything after is still relevant today in terms of how things work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Austin Posted April 4 Share Posted April 4 (edited) It's hard to pinpoint where something began, as videogaming as a medium has been a long, evolving, iterative process. That said, I would say "modern gaming" started with the 360/PS3 gen. The reason I feel this way is that--at least with the bigger budget/more mainstream titles--360/PS3 games tend to play out like lower resolution versions of the games you see today. While there have been some improvements here and there, game design elements themselves haven't changed a whole lot and there is still the same sort of focus on movie-like cinematics and storytelling in nearly every big-budget game today, just like there was back then. You can go back and play 360/PS3 era games and feel like, despite some of them being nearly 20 years old, that things haven't advanced all that much. You could simply raise the rendering resolution of a lot of those games, double the framerates, and in many cases they would still hold up pretty well today (just get rid of all the quick-time events and all is good!). Also, the way online multiplayer is implemented, the introduction of things like Achievements and Trophies, the frequent use of post-release patches and downloadable content are also indicators, but strictly speaking from how games themselves tend to be presented, it doesn't feel like nearly 20 years has passed since the launch of the 360. Regarding the Wii, it obviously falls in that generation since it co-existed during the same timeframe, but considering it is basically just another Game Cube, its games tend to reflect that (I'm not saying that's a bad thing, they just tend to feel more like they belong during the Xbox, PS2 or Game Cube era). A more interesting discussion might be to ponder when "Modern Nintendo" began. I'd argue it happened during the Game Cube era. That's when their hardware was strong enough to match their expertise in design and overall production values, both of which haven't changed a whole lot since. 🤔 Edited April 4 by Austin 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Video Posted April 6 Share Posted April 6 Well Wii, and more modern added online, and digital download, so there's that. Its just that in Nintendo's case, its never been as pronounced as it is on other modern consoles, even with switch. Imo that's a good thing, and why switch is still my current gen console of choice, stay away from the blue line games and their pretty much all complete and playable sans internet. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hwlngmad Posted April 8 Share Posted April 8 (edited) I would say that the era of gaming that we are (still) experiencing began with the seventh generation (Xbox 360 and PS3). But, I think that elements of this modern era began with the sixth generation with the Dreamcast, Xbox, Gamecube, and PS2. Edited April 8 by Hwlngmad 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spacecadet Posted April 10 Share Posted April 10 Modern gaming started with the NES. We're in the post-modern era right now, where everything's just a parody of stuff that came before it. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudeguy Posted April 16 Share Posted April 16 I agree, 7th Gen is where "modern" started. 16:9 ratio, 720p or higher resolution, online connectivity. The 360, Wii, and PS3 don't seem "old" to me 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harmonyFM Posted May 9 Share Posted May 9 I think the whole modern:retro thing is a false dichotomy especially given how the style of “retro” gaming has been so in vogue from the Wii onwards. Being a little younger than the folks here I absolutely see the Wii PS3 and Xbox 360 as being “retro” because the only place I can find them is garage sales, eBay, or my memories. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGameCollector Posted June 2 Share Posted June 2 The other difference not mentioned is that with the PS3/360/Wii era, consoles came stock with wireless controllers from 2006 onward (except the 2005 launch 360) while the PS2/GameCube/Xbox were still wired unless you bought accessories. And while the Wii didn't have stock HDMI, it did at least support widescreen for play on modern TVs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidD Posted July 2 Share Posted July 2 I really dislike this "generation" phrasing. A lot of systems and platforms are shoehorned one way or another to fit into a "generation" timeline, when they don't really fit well. There were some very clear "groups" of game systems, and specific competitions. However, it's hard to make that fit into well-defined "generations." (grumbles) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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