Atari FPGA community edition

[foft]

Considering a new FPGA based Atari design. Would appreciate some input to help with the design please.

 

Please post pictures of paper designs of how you want the board to be laid out. e.g. SIO here, video here etc.

 

Edited March 28 by foft

[+scorpio_ny]

I think the last small version that was produced ticked off a lot of boxes as for options. Maybe some slight changes on the I/O options. A couple of other ideas:

1.  Support for USB ethernet/WIFI dongles so the Fujinet could emulated.

2.  Menu option for toggling emulation of artifacting for games that needed it.

3. Built in emulation for XEP80

4. Support for wireless USB keyboard dongle 

 

 

[woj]

We are going to get into an endless cycle of everyone wanting everything, but not the same as others, I tell you... What I would really like to see is that the design is really well tested for compatibility, my recent head  hitting against the wall with Joyride being picky about MiSTer puts me off a little bit when it comes to anything that is not original hardware. (I am very interested though! And posted my votes already ;)). 

[Atari8guy]

Build in the the VBXE? (didn't see that as an option to vote for).  Also - if it's in FPGA 4x is nice but how about 65816 ?  

[+DjayBee]

48 minutes ago, scorpio_ny said:

4. Support for wireless USB keyboard dongle 

This works already with the "original" Eclaire Mini. I always used a wireless keyboard with mine.

The main problem is that you quickly need an USB hub because the board contains only two USB ports.

 

18 minutes ago, Atari8guy said:

Build in the the VBXE?

Might be an option if its design would not be closed.

[darwinmac]

28 minutes ago, woj said:

my recent head  hitting against the wall with Joyride being picky about MiSTer puts me off a little bit when it comes to anything that is not original hardware.

What issue did you have with MiSTer and Joyride? With foft’s core on MiST, I have only had two problems:

 

1 - Related to paddle support, one of the games incorrectly detected that I had an SNES controller. The core maintainer added an option to disable paddle support which fixed the problem. I can reenable paddle support for the games that use it. 
 

2. The enhanced video messes up a few homebrew games. Again, the core maintainer added an option to disable the enhanced video which eliminated the problem. 
 

Though I own an 800XL and an XEGS, the 8-bit FPGA allows me to run PAL software and, I think, use a stereo Pokey. The compatibility has been fantastic. 
 

Bob C

[donjn]

This is pointless without HDMI output option.

Not all of us have a CRT handy.

[+scorpio_ny]

5 minutes ago, donjn said:

This is pointless without HDMI output option.

Not all of us have a CRT handy.

Hi @donjn,

 

With the DVI, you can connect to HDMI with adapter sans audio. The issue with HDMI a license has to be paid to use the port and protocol.

[+DjayBee]

7 minutes ago, donjn said:

This is pointless without HDMI output option.

Not all of us have a CRT handy.

Errm, you know that there are plug-only adapters from DVI to HDMI?

[foft]

DVI video is basically HDMI video (HDMI just has more features that we do not need)

DVI + audio is DVI with HDMI compatible data islands (how HDMI transmits audio)

Often done via an HDMI socket.

Edited March 28 by foft

[donjn]

15 minutes ago, DjayBee said:

Errm, you know that there are plug-only adapters from DVI to HDMI?

Never used them before but I am aware DVI and HDMI have some similarities, but you lose audio.

[woj]

59 minutes ago, darwinmac said:

What issue did you have with MiSTer and Joyride?

The part loading crashes, easiest to check by trying to boot the second disk.

 

But otherwise the Atari800 MiSTer core bug tracker on GIThub has a list of other complaints...

[cathrynm]

SIO including cassette tape and audio input, real cartridge port.  I don't think anyone has ever had both of these on an FPGA device yet, have they?

[+orpheuswaking]

I have absolutely no need for a third Eclaire, but depending on cost you know I am going to want to buy one. 

 

I say we call it the Eclaire³ 

[foft]

42 minutes ago, woj said:

The part loading crashes, easiest to check by trying to boot the second disk.

 

But otherwise the Atari800 MiSTer core bug tracker on GIThub has a list of other complaints...

Can we keep this thread to my developments please. The MiSTer port is not one of mine.

[foft]

42 minutes ago, cathrynm said:

SIO including cassette tape and audio input, real cartridge port.  I don't think anyone has ever had both of these on an FPGA device yet, have they?

The audio input has not been done successfully. I had an ADC onboard but it was too noisy. The others work.

[woj]

22 minutes ago, foft said:

Can we keep this thread to my developments please. The MiSTer port is not one of mine.

Sure. I was asked so I answered. However, my point is, I would really like to see a problem free design (as much as it is possible), and not one with a list of oustanding issues like the other thing, regardless if they do or do not overlap.

[cathrynm]

24 minutes ago, foft said:

The audio input has not been done successfully. I had an ADC onboard but it was too noisy. The others work.

Sounds like you're pretty far along then. Maybe just ship it, or do what you can to turn it into a proper shippable project, cheap and reliable as possible.  Account for users unplugging and plugging in cartridges a lot, make sure this doesn't break anything.  Maybe ask for help with your noise issue.

[cathrynm]

And really, Atari 8-bit doesn't need ADC for audio input. It would be enough just to mix audio input with your audio output to handle everything the physical hardware does.

[OmaOhneBH]

I'd love to see the counterpart to Gideon's Ultimate 64.. the Ultimate XL, which would fit even in an original 600XL case, that'd be great!

[reifsnyderb]

While off topic, I'd just like to see an open-source one-for-one Pokey chip replacement.  If an Atari can be emulated on an FPGA, it's very clear to me that a Pokey replacement is possible.  (I am not talking about Pokey-Max, either.)

 

So, imagine this....

 

One fine evening I sit down to play a game of MULE, with my beloved Atari 800XL, and discover my Atari isn't working.  After a couple of beers, I recover from my panic attack and start to troubleshoot.  I find out the Pokey chip died.  So, my Bonzoid clearly is not going to retire in Elegant Estates this evening.  (Now, it's time for another beer.)  After some searching on ebay, I can't find a Pokey chip.  This means I either need to buy another Atari to scavenge the Pokey chip or play MULE via an emulator.  For whatever reason, I can't get a Pokey chip from Brad, either.  While Altirra is fantastic, and is probably the gold standard of emulators, I really want my Atari working.  (My Bonzoid would like that too!)  I don't need a Pokey-Max, either.  (Not that they are currently available.)  I want just a one-for-one Pokey chip replacement.  I just find it amazing that we have this amazing, super-dooper, phenomenal, magical technology called the FPGA but we don't have a one-for-one Pokey chip? 

 

This leaves me with some of the following options:

 

1.  Put my Atari in the Living Room trophy case along with the the jewel encrusted egg, leather bag of coins, huge diamond, jade figurine, and other cool items.

2.  Have a proper burial ceremony, for my Atari, with honors, 3 gun salute, etc.  (I'd rather go with #1, bit this is an option.   😞    )

3.  Toss my Atari in the trash.  (I'd rather go with #1, but this is also an option.    😞  )

4.  Buy another Atari computer to scavenge the Pokey chip and substitute that computer for use with options one through three, above.

5.  Buy some FPGA device that replaces the entire Atari but, for some reason, can't be used just to replace my Pokey chip.  (I guess my Atari would go with options #1 through #3, above.   😞   )

6.  Sacrifice a Mechtron to the FPGA Gods and pray that it rains Pokey chips.

7.  Load up Altirra and use that.  (My original Atari gets the treatment of options #1 through #3, above.   😞  )

 

So, anyhow, rant mode off.  I am hoping somebody will please release a one-for-one Pokey chip replacement that uses an FPGA, micro-controllers, or even a spare improbability drive.

 

 

 

 

Edited March 28 by reifsnyderb

[donjn]

This is coming out soon, hopefully...

 

The Atari 800XL FPGA!

https://revive-machines.com/index-en.html

 

[+gnusto]

First priority for me is always accuracy to the original, so I get concerned with any enhancements that might interfere with that. But alternate choices make a lot of sense, like USB (in addition to) DB9 and DVI (in addition to) analog video out.

And when it comes to form factor, I usually look for two distinct things - able to fit or look like the original, or as small as possible. The bonus version would be a "small as possible" that had mounting capability/wiring harness in an original case, so you could get the authentic cartridge slot and connectors.

Really though I'll buy it regardless of what you do, I missed the boat on eclaire but won't this time.

[+Larry]

I love my EclaireXL.  But some things that I think were missing:

 

1.  PCB form factor that would fit in a 600XL or 800XL case with most ports lining up.

2.  S-Video in addition to the truly superb HDMI/DVI.  (I'm probably in a minority, but being able to connect to CRT monitors with S-video is still pretty awesome.)  BTW, Panos made a couple of the S-Video adapters, IIRC.

3.  Ability to attach a real Atari keyboard.  If you've typed on a real Atari for 40+ years, your fingers *know* where all those special keys are.

 

IIRC, the EclaireXL will run at something like 30+ MHz, although I no longer think that is terribly important.  A mere 7 MHz makes for a very snappy machine. 

[dmsc]

Hi!

7 hours ago, cathrynm said:

And really, Atari 8-bit doesn't need ADC for audio input. It would be enough just to mix audio input with your audio output to handle everything the physical hardware does.

It is needed if you want the cassette audio to go through the "DVI data islands" (HDMI) interface, that should be the main use case. Also, people would probably want to decode the two-tone data to SIO, so a little audio processing is necessary.

 

Have Fun!